Conspiracies in an INWO Game

Beginning of Game

Reveal Illuminati

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Draw Initial Plot Cards

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Reveal Lead Puppets

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Draw Initial Group Cards

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Deciding Who Goes First

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Round 1

Don Fnordlioni's Turn 1

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James Eddleman's Turn 1

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Thany's Turn 1

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Sat, 26 Oct 1996 21:11:36 -0500 (CDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany:

So. Either I'm completely off base, or I can guess that you and Glen probably have some level of group overlap (both you and he tried to lead with Violent Governments, for example).

I am happy to use my services in the battering of Glen early, so he doesn't get a jump on you (and the rest of us! Bavarians are scary).

However, I can't say I'll just attack him for free. I don't care to earn his enmity this early without sufficent motivation.

I'd like you to help, since this is in both our interests -- naturally, it puts me closer to my Cthulhu Goal, but it tears away the most powerful group in the game from Glen (and basically makes him less dangerous), and puts you, personally, in a better position if either one of you decides to steal groups from each other.

Furthermore, if I can secure your help in blasting New York, I can offer you this promise: I will not unleash any Disasters on the Vatican (and I have a bunch!), for the rest of the game, or as long as its in your power structure.

By help, I mean any of these things: Throwing in tokens to aid my attack, and/or defending me afterwards (eating new york takes a lot out of a guy), until I have a chance to get my tokens back. A Terrorist Nuke, Martial Law, or Swiss Bank Account would also be helpful.

Let me know what you think. Oh, by the way, I have a pretty good shot at making it happen -- I have a agents card for New York in my hand right now (Ralph is invited to confirm this -- in a real game, I'd show you it).

Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:18:58 -0600 (CST): Thany replied to Don Fnordlioni:

A pretty fair guess, as Bavarian decks usually have a rather small margin of difference...

Hee hee... thanks. =)

This is cool. I haven't got any Plots in my hand that would do any good against New York, but I'll help you out in trashing it (I was thinking of asking you for assistance against it, actually ;) with what I've got (or at least as much of it as is needed).

Don Fnordlioni's comment


Jason Bostick's Turn 1

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Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:54:53 -0600 (CST): At the beginning of Jason's turn, Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason (Cc'ing Thany):

I'm setting up to blast New York next turn -- The other Bavarians (sherlock), has already agreed to help in the effort, and I'd like to know if the venerable Network would like to join in the fun. If so, just save a token or two to throw in, just in case I meet some unexpected resistance (and if you get the power to look at Glen's plots, I'd appreciate the info....)

Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:49:07 -0500 (EST): At the end of Jason's turn, Don Fnordlioni commented to Glen, Thany, and James about Jason's use of two Power boosters:

This is a bit disturbing. I sense a PfiOS [Power For Its Own Sake]?
(See commentary)

Glen Barnett's Turn 1

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Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:26:34 +1000 (EET): In response to a message that I've lost about Thany's turn, Glen wrote the following to everyone except Thany, just before he made his automatic takeover of Japan.:

Hmm. A Blinded By Science Deck, I'd say.

I don't have much to stop one of those, except what I'm about to play. I'd appreciate it surviving until we know for sure.

Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:02:10 -0800: Jason replied to Glen:

I can confirm it, though maybe not stop it

Bar codes?

Sun, 3 Nov 1996 10:20:44 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Ralph, Cc'ing to Don Fnordlioni:

More considering: Since the Don went to play CIA at the start, he may be relying on destroying personalities he provides himself; just possibly. Of course, the CIA is just nifty for killing off Bavarian Gov't-heavy decks.
(Come to think of it, an obvious strategy for him is to team with one Bavaria against the other).

Maybe I should Cc: this to him.

(This was extremely ironic, because Don Fnordlioni had in fact been arranging a team-up with Thany, the other Bavarian Illuminati.) (See the comments of which this was a part.)

Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:45:04 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing Jason and James:

I guessed at that too. I'm also wondering about a Shangri-La unmask (AMA and Vatican)..... but I don't see how Thany's current groups match well with the attempted CIA first puppet. Course, he's got 20-some groups in his group deck, so maybe there's two distinct goals, depending on what came up.

Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:48:16 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message to him:

Are you suggesting such an alliance? I'm receptive to offers, since Cthulhu has the second-worst reputation in the game (next to Bavaria, of course. :). I can use all the help I can get.

Round 2

Don Fnordlioni's Turn 2

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Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:47:14 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don's message:

That's why I Cc''d you the mail! Yes, I'd like an alliance.

I think our decks might work well together somehow, unless your playing a much more unusual deck than your early cards indicate, and maybe even then.

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:19:30 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany:

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and take out New York.
Glen held on to his New York token, so your help could be best used with the NPCs cancelling New York's action. That leaves Japan, but I think I can dissuade him from using Japan to aid.
By the way, right now the attack is at a 10, if nobody else spends tokens. If he spends Japan, it'll be down to a 4, but I'm pretty sure, even if he does spend Japan, I can convince others to throw in. Everyone hates New York.

What do you say?

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:35:20 -0500 (EST): The Don responded to Glen's message:

This deck is designed with alliances in mind -- the deck name is The Hired Gun, after all. Do you have any specific plans? I'm setting up sherlock right now to get rid of that NPC token (I do dislike the NPCs so). Correct -- the rest of my groups are pretty much along the same vein. I hope there's not too much overlap.

(Back to history)

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:03:52 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don's message:

That's fine. NPC's are one of my favourite guys to take out. I even have an agents card in my deck, but we mightn't have to wait for that.

[To Don Fnordlioni's "I hope there's not too much overlap":]

I don't know. Mine is pretty much working to sandbag a standard Bavaria deck, but it has a few odd groups in there to try to stop other things.

I'd guess probably not, though I have a few Violent Government groups which you may also have. We can always negotiate over who gets what if there's any particular need for specific cards.

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:20:32 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

If you have a Martial Law or Terrorist Nuke in hand, I would be able to use it launch an attack against the NPCs this turn, right after I strip them of their token. I can offer a Blitzkrieg (in my hand right now) in return, if you like. With the +10, I can pull the attack up to 10, even if he defends it with his Bavaria token.

[To Glen's 'I'd guess we wouldn't have too much overlap':]

Welp, everyone saw my C.I.A. -- I'd rather get a hold of that then sherlock (or you, grin). I have a pretty good chance of getting it first, I'd just like to hang on to it.

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:26:47 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni suggested to James:

Say -- I don't suppose you'd like to back me up in possible future attacks against the Network? You're the only other player without particularly tempting targets for me, so I was wondering if you'd care to open up channels of communication. As it stands, the Network appears to me to be the leader in the game right now, with two power 6 groups (with 3 tokens between them).

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:02:07 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to the Don's message:

Nope, I don't have [a Martial Law or Terrorist Nuke] in my hand.

Say - would a Fear and Loathing help? If you Go Fish that, I'm going to be really upset :)

[To the discussion of the Don's desire for the C.I.A.:]

I have no CIA, nor any great interest in having one.

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:37:35 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Glen's message:

[To the Fear and Loathing and the Go Fish:]

Playing a Fear and Loathing and spending Japan's 4 global power will bring it above 10, should he spend the Bavarian Token in response. How does this sound to you?

I don't even have a Go Fish in all my plots (hand and deck combined). Grin.

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:09:51 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

OK, go ahead, I see I have tokens on Japan and NY. I think I better keep them there if I can; if there's a desperate need, however, I might be able to S&L Scam.

(and you better not Go Fish that one either, big boy).

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:50:52 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Glen and to James, quoting Glen's previous message:

I wonder if the Assassins could be shown that it's in the best interest of the world at large to blow away the NPCs this turn -- their commitment with the N.S.A.'s power would be greatly appreciated, especially since they'll get the token back pretty quickly (after I knock) anyway.

Note, the attack isn't launched yet, but it'll be with a strength (before calculating minuses) in the high 20s to low 30s, should I successfully strip the NPC token right now (this is the confirmation I'm waiting on before I take another action).

Nov 5 ...: Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Well the Fear and Loathing is no real problem (it is actually in the deck to counter other Blue NWO's, but what the heck).

Japan is a bit more of a problem; I may lose it if I'm not careful.

Now, if you succeed, you'll have a destroyed group, and I'll have spent stuff helping you - is that Blitzkrieg still to be part of the deal?

How's this sound: we swap F&L for Blitz, and I'll add in Japan or NY (govt vs Corp on a destroy) if the roll goes below a 9?

Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:42:11 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Glen's message:

/And/ the NPCs will be out of the game. This is not inconsequential -- grin. This helps me, you, and everyone. Makes actions and whatnot a million times more certain.

Duh, forgot that Japan could aid with full power. I don't know why I said global.

Anyway, sure, this sounds fine by me. I'm happy to swap the cards now, while I'm waiting on outside confirmation (not Ralph) of my next action. I'll presume it's in my hand when Ralph says so. And I'll use the F&L this turn, to launch an attack against the NPCs (At great peril, I might add -- I'll probably be out of tokens when I knock).

I should point out -- I can't make the attack until the NPC token has been used. I'm hoping I can make this happen. However, if I can't, then I can't attack (he'll just cancel it). Shall we return our respective gifts in the unlikely case this happens?

Tue, 05 Nov 1996 07:45 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlioni's message soliciting help for an attack on the Network:

Future attacks... yes (depending how many kills you have.) Right now I think I'd rather wait another round on The Network. Other targets I will respond separately.

My greatest worry is the BATF right now.

Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:03 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlioni and Glen, in response to the Don's message:

Hmmmm... Destroying NPC's is a good thing, letting Servants do it may or may not. Then there's the Goal:BBS possibility and that's more dangerous. OK, I'll pledge NSA's help. But I'd like to see Australian Rules (if anybody has it) since it'll cost me a plot draw.

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:06:50 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don's message:

Yes, [having the NPCs out of the game] helps everyone - but only counts toward your goals.

[To the 'at great peril':]

If this is a problem, I may be able to help, though if that means I leave myself untokened, I may need help in turn. It might be better if I aid with NY (if it becomes necessary) - so I have Japan's Global Power to act in defence if required.

[To the 'shall we return our respective gifts?']

I'm happy to either swap back, or not, as you prefer at the time.

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:34:36 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' comments about the Network:

Okeydokey. Just out of curiosity, do you and the Network have something going on there? Just curious, as to why you're reluctant to plan against them now.

Oh, whoops, I forgot about its +8 to destroy Fanatics, and what that might mean to you. Darn, and I was hoping you'd be the one person who wouldn't feel threatened by me.

Grin. Don't worry, too much, I don't plan on targeting Fanatics just for the sake of destroying groups. I'm a /little/ more subtle than that. Besides, the fact that it can so easily self-destruct should give you some comfort.

Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:41:26 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' offer of the N.S.A.'s help, Cc'ing Glen:

Thanks a lot, on behalf of the Illuminated world.

I don't have an Australian Rules at the moment, sadly enough (if I did, I'd be sure to play it as soon as it came up, since it helps me most).

(Back to history)

Tue, 05 Nov 1996 13:16 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's question about an alliance with the Network:

Nope, I've only made a deal with the devil so far. ;)

I just feel that the Bavarias are of greater concern having seen Bavaria just roll over any competition, combined with the habit of not helping another Illuminati get closer to their straightforward/bludgeoning goal. But, since you and Glen seem to be making deals, either you have something in store for him and I don't have to worry about that Bavaria too much, or you and him are planning a simultaneous victory in which case it doesn't matter what I do.

Basically, I don't know what to expect from anybody, so I'm playing conservatively at the moment.

Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:10:40 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' comments about the two Bavarias:

You always have to worry about Bavaria. But it's true, I have something in store for the both of them. Bavaria needs to be slowed down early, so they have to play catchup for at least a turn or two. Those Privileged attacks are the reason why they're so hard to stop later in the game. They can grow quite nicely with just making their ATO and a Priv attack on their turn. An early pruning is the best solution. Oh, heck, this is a little defeatist, isn't it? I'm sure there's lots you can do to thwart a double victory, Mr. I've-Got-All-Kinds-Of-Global-Power. (as Assassins are wont to be) I expect my worst fears to be confirmed, which is why I'm planning on rocketing out of the gate early, then slowing down to a more sane pace. The early kills I make are for everyone's benefit, not just my own -- I don't usually go picking on the weakest group, because that would assuredly make me the obvious threat in the game. I have the means to take the most powerful groups out of play, and level the playing field, as it were.

Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:59 -0500 (EST): James responded to the Don's message:

[To 'you always have to worry about Bavaria':]

This was one of the first lessons I learned. Hit Bavaria hard and often. Destroying NPC's in the process is a wonderful bonus. :) Later on I will have help against Privilege, tho.

[To 'Oh, heck, this is a little defeatist...':]

Sorry, sometimes I get a little too involved in figuring out possibilities and not remembering which turn we're in. In this instance, I was looking at the piece of paper I'm using to keep track of where people are and (somehow) came up with the chilling thought that you, with Glen's help, could be going for Fratricide. Silly isn't it? Me, thinking an experienced player would be trying for a near impossible goal. Anyway, I think this occasionally during the early game and (most of the time) I end up making my influence felt.

Now get on with that attack!

Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:35:54 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' "Now get on with that attack!":
I know, I know. Nobody wants to move on more than me. I check my mail like a dozen times a day, in the hope the crucial bit of information I need will come through.

I think sherlock may have met with foul play.

Wed, 6 Nov 1996 ???: Thany told Don Fnordlioni, "I'll help you vs. New York." (I don't have the original message.)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:13:42 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Thany's message:

I presume this means that you're going to cancel New York's inevitable defense with the NPCs. That's where your help would be best used.

At this point, Don Fnordlioni launched the attack on New York. (Back to history)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:14:56 -0500 (EST): Immediately after the attack was announced, Don Fnordlioni sent the following message to Glen:

Don't hate me cause I'm 500 feet tall and smell like carp.
More importantly, please don't respond to this attack with Japan's token.
Just let New York die, and we'll all be the better for it.
How, you say?
Welp, for starters, it'll make everyone else happy that Bavaria lost New York.
Secondly, it'll make you look much less threatening. In all likelihood, everyone (including you) will hate me more.

I have an Atomic Monster, and I would much rather use it against the NPCs, just like we planned. But if you insist on defending New York with Japan's token (or spending Japan's token during the attack at all), I would be forced to seek my blood there.

BTW -- this attack is necessary to get sherlock to spend his NPC token. Be sure to spend New York's token in defense. Nice plan, huh?

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:06:41 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I don't think so. If you want me to think this is a good plan, you need to involve me at a much earlier stage.

In fact, your whole scheme might just die.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:19:22 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Thany:

Don F's attack on me is in part an attempt to get you to spend your action token off the NPC's, which he also plans to destroy. (I know, because that's what our card swap was about - I can send you some of the scheming if you like). He is trying to play us off against one another, to our mutual detriment and his own benefit. If we don't help each other out until he's a bit weaker, we'll both be dead and gone. If you spend the NPC's action to cancel the attack he has just made, I'll give you a Blitzkrieg and defend you with Japan's token when the attack on the NPC's comes, though it may not eventuate if this attack fails.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:39:40 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to sherlock:

A further explanation of what I mean is that the current plan is for me to defend with NY, and for you to cancel.

Then NY goes, and the attack shifts to the NPC's. He has calculated an attack of about 30 power, I think.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:16:17 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

It seems Don F.'s plans don't extend to one destruction, but to at least two. He's either going to destroy New York and the NPC's or New York and Japan (he can do it, too). By playing sherlock and myself off against each other, he's just belting along toward victory. With our unwitting help, he may well be planning a 3 group killfest, because once the NPC's token goes in stopping New York's defence, he won't really need that Atomic Monster for the attack on the NPC's - he can save it for an attack on Japan.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:21:59 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote again to Jason:

Oh, anyway, what I'm proposing is that both his attack on New York and his attack on the NPC's should fail.

If you spend your NSA token defending New York (and it stays spent - assuming say the NPC's don't just cancel the whole attack), I'll give you a Blitzkrieg.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:23:28 +1000 (EET): Glen sent another message to Thany:

Hey, if New York itself is a big problem for you, (and it survives), I can trade it to you for another group.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:26:33 +1000 (EET): Glen continued his rapid-fire messages with a message to Jason:

Double Oops! I thought you had the NSA's, when it is James.


Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:30:49 +1000 (EET): Glen's barrage of messages continued with a message to James:

I just screwed up and sent this off to Jason, but anyway. It seems Don F. is making a grab for 2 or 3 destructions in this turn, possibly going for a quick win. New York goes first (when the NPC's cancel the defence), the the detokened NPC's, and then Japan, since I've worked out that he may not actually need his Atomic Monster for the attack on the NPC's. It is looking pretty nasty. More coming.

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:28:33 -0800 (PST): Jason responded to Glen's message:

Um..are you sure you have the right person?..I don't control the N.S.A..:)..I'm not at my terminal where I can look at the pages..but I do believe that James was the one with N.S.A... I CAN ..however..try assisting with my Network's

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:36:31 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Sorry about that. Yes, I was intending to send mail to both you and James, but I got a bit muddled. It's been that kind of morning.

Unfortunately, if the attack on NY fails, the Atomic Monster is likely to hit Japan... so I'm still screwed.

Anyway, hold off any kind of aid for now, I want to see what else develops. I need to convince sherlock it is in his interests not to cancel NY's action (not yet spent) - I've sent him a lot of mail - any more is just going to look like desperation.

Oh, incidentally, if Japan survives, I may be convinced to trade it for another group.

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:50:37 -0800 (PST): James replied to Glen's message:

Actually..Either way I'll be able to get Japan.(has other ways), but I would be more then willing to make a nice trade to get it without hassle or cost. Lets see what happens and we will go from there.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:40:42 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote another message to James:

Where was I?

Yes, telling you about Don's current plans.

He's amazingly well set up for what he's got in mind.

I was about to suggest a Blitzkrieg in exchange for the NSA's help, but actually, maybe I can hold off on that for now. What I really need to do is convince Thany (sherlock) not to cancel NY's defence.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:59:15 +1000 (EET): Glen also offered these comments on Don Fnordlioni's ploy:

Thoughts on the move to attack New York:


OK, so I'm royally pissed off, but it is just so clever. I can recognise cleverness, even when it is me that is the brunt of it. To play sherlock and me off against each other like that is smart, and the whole logic of it is nigh irresistible.

We almost have to help you wipe ourselves out.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:06:20 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yes, I guess we wait and see.

I already assumed you had an agent for it (and you're not the only one as far as I can make out). It is better if we can work out a mutually beneficial trade for it than to throw action tokens and plot cards out the window.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it'll survive now, so we should be able to make a trade for it a bit later.

(Back to history)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:23:26 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Glen's comments:

I hope this translates to, "No hard feelings." Please don't take it personally.... your last mail sounded personally irate, what with the lack of :)'s and all... grin.

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:28:35 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Glen's previous message to Don Fnordlioni:

I figured you would never agree to it in a million years. Sure, Cthulhu can wait that long, but his lowly Servants can't. It's a risk, I admit. I'm curious to see how it'll all turn out. Of course, if I don't get New York, I'll get Japan. But I promise I won't get both out of this deal. I really do want to get rid of the NPCs. Getting rid of New York is more of a pleasant side effect. I'm telling you, it'll do wonders for your image. You'll have the luxury of getting ignored for at least a turn, probably for two.

(Back to history)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 ???: At some unknown point (I don't have a copy of the message), Thany wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

The Bavarian Illuminati watch the battle from afar, watching and waiting for the right time to strike...

<Yep. The NPCs will cancel New York's action when it is used.>

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:19:48 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Thany's message:

By the way, since Glen wasn't taking my threats seriously, it looks like I'm going to have to take out Japan, too. You can thank me later. I warned him not to use Japan's token......

I don't suppose you have a Hoax or Secrets in hand, do you? My Japan attack is gonna be an instant, and I'd like to see it actually go through in case Glen tries to cancel / avoid it some how. He's got 5 plots, so chances are better than he can survive a Disaster.

(Back to history)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:38:46 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James, after playing the Hoax!:

Say, I don't suppose you have any way of scooping that NWO I discarded up, do you? I'd really like to see that in play after this turn. I can offer you all kind of amnesty in return, or you can suggest a price, if it's in your power.

(Back to history)

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:14:08 -0600 (CST): Thany wrote a response to Glen's pleas to him that included this:

The Bavarians ponder the warning of their fellow conspirators. The plot seems like what the Servants would do (heck, what they themselves would do, given a chance), and also the possibility of this simply being a last ditch effort to save their precious powerbase.

Eventually, they reach the decision of waiting for other news...

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:29:45 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Thany's message:

I see why you'd think that, but (i) James can back up my story that part of the aim of him attacking NY is to get you to spend your own NPC's action, because there is a plan afoot to attack it; and (ii) I can forward a message from Don via Ralph (the one he mentions in the announcement of the attack - didn't that sound odd?) where he mentions the plan. If that convinces you enough to listen more, I can pass you earlier messages that outline precisely how it is going to be done.

Heck, here's the message, headers intact (and if you think I'm gonna fake these, you're nuts):

[Here, Glen quoted the entire 'Don't hate me cause I'm 500 feet tall and smell like carp.' message sent to him by Don Fnordlioni.]

Now, why would he try to stop me defending with Japan like that?

Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:30:01 -0500 (EST): After Glen played the Hoax! on Don Fnordlioni's Hoax!, Don Fnordlioni sent a message to Thany, with the subject `NPCs!':

Now is the time for men to act!
Now is the time to seize the moment!

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:32:09 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's `Please don't take it personally' message:

Oh, I'm as irate as all hell, but I don't think it is personal.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:46:03 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's public `Cthulhu would be displeased if anyone aided New York' comment:

Thanks. That helps rather a lot. That oughta do what I couldn't manage.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:59:43 +1000 (EET): Glen sent a message to Thany, citing Don Fnordlioni's comment:

Now why would Don F. need to threaten you like this if it didn't occur to him that I might be spilling our earlier plans to you?

We are going down together if we aren't careful, 'cos if I cop it, I've got to do exactly what he planned... it is so neat it amazes me. If I lose a group to him, my only hope is to help him destroy groups of yours, or I'm dead. He knows it.

The plan is nearly foolproof.

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:19:45 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James:

Can you do me a small favour. Won't cost you much, but Thany is being a bit slow to catch on to the danger Cthulhu is posing. Could you just confirm to him that there is in fact a plan to take out the NPC's?

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:36:38 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Just to show there's no hard feelings, I got a little proposition for you. Drop it now, and you might survive intact through to turn 3, 'cos I've got no great interest in seeing you wiped out.

Otherwise... well, you're a smart guy. No point in letting the others pick over our dead carcasses, now is there?

Fri, 08 Nov 1996 07:58 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlioni's request to scavenge the NWO: World Hunger:

Ooooo... I'd love amnesty and wouldn't mind that card being played, but, alas, I have no cards for scavenging.

See also the commentary on this. At Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:05:27 -0500 (EST), Don Fnordlioni responded, ``Oh, rats.''

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:46:28 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's proposition:

Umm... until I see something real, I think I have to file this in the "idle threats" category. Do you have anything to back this up that you're willing to share?

BTW -- since it's become impossible for me to attack the NPCs this turn, would you like your F&L back (in return for my Blitzkrieg)? It's up to you -- either card is equally useful for me.

Fri, 08 Nov 1996 10:11:50 -0800: Jason wrote to James:

You know...this might be a good time for you and I to conspire while these 3 go at each others throats...any Ideas?

Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:21:46 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Sherlock:

Unless there are things going on which I'm not aware of (which is likely), I'm going to wait to see if the NPCs are, in fact, going to cancel New York's Hoaxing action, since the roll is back at a -4 (I'm pretty sure sherlock was intending to cancel NY's action when it defended itself, but I don't know if things are different. If this isn't going to happen, I'll move on.

Fri, 08 Nov 1996 16:32 -0500 (EST): James responded to Jason's suggestion of conspiring while the other three fought:

Hmmm.... well.... No... Ah ha! No... :)

1. Information Trade. I.e. who's approached you for a deal, what you'd like to see happen/whose side your on, thoughts about peoples goals, etc.

2. Card Trade. Something that isn't fitting into your plans.

Those are the options I can think of that are reasonable, how 'bout you?

BTW, what were you thinking bringing out places with a Cthulhu player in the game?

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:25:02 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message about "I have to file this in the 'idle threats' category":

There was no threat involved. It was a helpful suggestion.

(I didn't say I'd do anything - it was the other players I was talking about.)

I've got no problem, keep going all you like. At this point, with my tokens gone, actually I'm better off if you do leave yourself open for a turn.

I'll hang on to it just for the moment, actually, because I may be about to trade it.

Don Fnordlioni's answer at Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:25:35 -0500 (EST): "Sure thing."

(Back to history)

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:16:10 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James:

I'm just feeling you out at the moment, but given your positive reponse before, would you be willing to part with some assistance for a Blitzkrieg or, say a New Blood?

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:20:22 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

It is just a thought at this stage, but what would you say to taking Japan now (say by spending the Network's token), in exchange for help (say England) and a lesser group in return later - say during my next turn (at which time I can spend the token if you want).

I realise this is a strange offer, so I can perfectly understand if you aren't interested, and if that's the case I have some other offers for you to consider.

Ralph, watching this, pointed out that it was not possible for Glen to give Jason Japan now, since it was not the turn of either of them.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:22:22 +1000 (EET): Glen made another offer to James:

Another offer I could make is Germany from my hand, which would seem to go with what you have, but that's pretty valuable to me at the moment, since it looks like I'll be short on groups. Still, I'd consider swapping it for a decent enough offer.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 09:44:41 -0500 (EST): Referring to Thany's use of his Bavarian Illuminati action, Don Fnordlioni asked Thany, "So, why the change of heart?"

Sat, 09 Nov 1996 11:31 -0500 (EST): (note that time has gotten a little confused on some of these messages; I think this happened earlier in the sequence, but I can't figure out where it should be. RLM) James responded to Glen's request to confirm that there was a plan to destroy the Nuclear Power Companies, in a message to Glen and to Thany:

Was is more the word. This is nothing like was discussed and after that Hoax he doesn't have the power now.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:28:29 +1000 (EET): (See what I mean about confused dates?) Glen responded to James' message:

"Was" would have done fine. Too late now.

Sat, 09 Nov 1996 11:35 -0500 (EST): James then wrote another message to Thany:

I couldn't say anything 'in front of' Glen, but...

Think about this attack. Do you want your rival with the most powerful group on the board? He can double its power and with NWO: Gun Control bring it to 18 power. He'll have two Illuminati tokens next turn, so even if you cancel one resource takeover, he can still use the second token. Not to mention that if he has New York and CIA, he'll probably have other violent and/or criminal groups which he could take easily and (if they're criminal) get extra power for them. Remember, Good Polls lasts until his turn. This will most likely be the only chance to destroy New York.

I could help you out if indeed Don can pull off an attack against you, but I really don't think he can any longer. I think its worth the risk.

(Back to history)

Sun, 10 Nov 1996 10:48:59 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason about the proposed deal for Japan, responding to Ralph's explication that Japan couldn't be given to Jason now:

This is no problem Jason - in some ways it is better. Help now; on your turn I give you Japan (I can't hold it, so I'm better off giving it to you anyway), on my turn you give me a group of your choice. How's that? (I'm not certain I'm 100% happy with this deal, actually, but I can discuss it).

Sun, 10 Nov 1996 10:56:58 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

Other things I can offer that you might like include Blitzkrieg and Germany.

What they are worth is negotiable.

Still more offers are possible.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:50:32 -0500 (EST): Don wrote to Thany after Thany's decision to use his Bavarian Illuminati action instead of the Nuclear Power Companies:

We are greatly displeased.
You confirmed you would cancel New York's action once they spent it. Now you've changed your mind? We find this puzzling. You would risk your reputation, and all future alliances, simply to give New York half a chance at survival (Actually, better than half -- a roll of 6 gives New York a 55% chance).

I don't understand what you stand to gain from this. You gain the great ire of us, AND the ire of the rival Bavarians. It would have almost been better for you to not aid at all.

Tell you what:
Since we serve such a kind and benevolent (if oft misunderstood) Elder God, we will give you a final chance to save your reputation. You will aid the attack with the Nuclear Power Companies, pushing the roll to 11. If not, we will inform the other Illuminati of your backstabbing tendencies. I would be surprised if anyone would offer you any assistance, in light of this unsettling (and ungentlemanly) behavior.

As the old saying goes: "The lone Mi-Go is a dead Mi-Go."

Please consider your choice very carefully.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:00:29 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' 'I take it your plan to kill the NPCs' has gone awry' message:

It has gone awry, though is still salvagable.

However, I'm reasonable -- I am happy to give you the Atomic Monsters. All I ask is that you kick in your global power (doesn't matter which -- I'd be happy with a 9 on the roll). But really, when it comes down to it, I'll give it to you for free, if you can make use of it. The chance to get rid of New York ought to be bribe enough, I think -- it really is in everyone's best interest. (But if you throw in to help me out, I'll be your friend. :)

I don't have an NPCs agent on hand, and neither does Glen (I've asked him already).

If you do chose to throw in, don't actually do it right away. But a confirmation of your intention, either way, would be appreciated. I have a slim chance to still get the NPC's to spend their token. I'm using threats now, instead of bribes. Obviously, having the NPCs throw in is much more tantilizing.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:05:33 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote a followup to his previous message:

By the way, I'm holding a NWO: Fear and Loathing. That'll give you another +4, if you do it with a Government group. Just to check:
NSA with F&L and Atomic Monster: 23
NPCS + Proximity: -14
9 or less. Not too shabby.
And the Network can aid you with England. Shit, I just realized something.
All his groups are conservative.
I can't believe I overlooked this.
Ah well, only one liberal group in play.

Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:37 -0500 (EST): (These dates are screwed up--RLM.) James wrote to Jason:

I was wondering if you would be in on an attempt to destroy the NPCs on my turn. With Englands' token and Dons' Atomic Monster, it would get rid of the NPCs and deny Cthulhu a kill. I haven't talked to Don yet, but he may have an agent as well. If he doesn't do you?

Just Wondering...

Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:55 -0500 (EST): (Another screwed-up date.) James wrote to Don:

I take it your plan to kill the NPCs has gone awry. I will most likely be helping you destroy NY soon, but I wanted to find out if I could enlist your Atomic Monster during my turn. I assume you were planning to use it on Japan, but I may be able to overcome the NPCs if you are willing to play that card when needed. However, not having the bonuses you have it would be for nothing if has any defensive cards. Do you happen to have an Agent as well? That would definitely put it over the top.

Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:12:17 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

YOU are greatly displeased?

I changed my mind. If you can't stand counter-plots, you have no right to be playing this game.

But of course you can't stand counter-plots, especially when one is turned against you.

The term that comes most readily to mind is: Fuck you.

I will NOT. Glen informed me of the double-edge in this attack. I would use the NPCs to aid you, and, to return the favor, you would destroy the then-helpless group. I find my intelligence insulted, in that you insist on acting as though I had not found out about your plan.

Inform the others of my "backstabbing tendancies", and I'm sure they will just as eagerly read of your own.

Allow me to counter with my own old saying: "If thou dost live by the sword, so thou shalt die by the sword."

I have.

P.S. Yes, I really AM this angry (I don't care if it is a game, I do NOT like to see anyone threatened, threefold if it is me).

(Back to history)

Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:16:47 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

I don't think the NPCs will be aiding me.
If you're inclined to throw in, feel free.
Best case scenario: The NPCs cancel your action. A 7 ain't bad (it ain't great, either), and that would mean a free punch on the NPCs.

I'm trying to think of a way to launch two convincing attacks. Maybe you could get the Network to help?
The way I see it:
Your attack with the NSA, with F&L, and the Monster:
His defense, plus proximity, plus action token (if he doesn't cancel):

The Network could put you at a respectable roll on one attack, or your Assassins token. Remember, if he cancels, I get the Atomic Monster back. (Right Ralph?) If he doesn't cancel, and just resists, then the Monster is gone after the attack. Hmm.

I don't know your deck, though, so there might be a better plan. The Network might have better ideas, too. Shrug.

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:14 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

I will be throwing in both group tokens bringing you to 10 on Monday, I'm on my way somewhere right now and I feel like providing a story line.

NPC attack on my turn:

  1. I fear not NPC cancellation.
  2. F+L would certainly help
  3. I don't need you to give me Atomic Monster, just play it at the appropriate moment.

I had thought there were more points, but they apparently left as fast as they came.

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:28:38 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James's message:

Oh, thank you, thank you. Maybe I'll even roll below 11. Boy, if I miss this roll, I think I may shoot myself.

Hmmm. Someone holding an AWHFY?

Sure 'nuff.

Welp, I'd like to give you at least one plot card. I'm going to end up with 6 plots in hand when I knock. I'll give you either one -- F+L or the Monster. Pick one, and you may have it.

Welp, if you're planning on getting aid from outside groups, I hope you have a non-Secret government group to attack with. That's all I can think of.

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:08:23 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message about trading Japan for another group:

Just for my personal Clarification: I cannot take Japan from you until after I recieve my new set of A.T's as stated in the rules 'unspent Action tokens can only be used to buy plots after your turn begins'. Is this a correct assessment?

In either case.. I can offer the Networks possible A.T. in exchange for Japan and if I end up needing to add England.. I would like the Blitzkrieg.

I do fear that the NPC's will try and cancel one of these actions. I also want your word (like it'll help) that I will not see an I lied card on this trade...:)

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:14:00 -0800: Jason responded to James' proposal:

Definitely a possibility.. I'm not exactly a Fan of the NPC's.. and they always interfere with my nets, trying to corrupt them.

I'll let you know..but I don't have an agents card alas.

(Back to history)

Mon, 11 Nov 96 16:17:15 EST: In response to rules questions from Jason (cc'ing Glen) about when groups could be given, Ralph wrote to Jason and Glen. (I wouldn't normally include such rules discussions in this record, but this was cited in later conspiracies.)

Let me cite chapter and verse here, from the section on 'Moving Groups':

So it is certainly the case that Glen can give you Japan after you take Action tokens, by the spending of an action token from you.

Now, let's ask whether it has to be done after you take action tokens, or whether it can be done before.

From the section on 'Actions':

And the turn sequence says 'Attempt attacks or other actions' happens during phase 5.

Now, this is not a complete argument, because we know that some actions can be taken during other phases. This is why I'm not sure.

Glen, I'd welcome your comments on the question...

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:41:35 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to James' side note:

In fact Bavaria only played it to make it bounce, and didn't expect to keep it. What Bavaria did expect was that you'd take up the offer of being given NY in trade for another group. Check back. [See comments]

Not taking up that offer has left you and me weaker and Cthulhu stronger.

You think Thany (sherlock) is going to let me back in the game now he's two groups up on me?

You just lost me the game, pal.

I should have played along with Cthulhu's deadly little game. Everyone else but me and Cthulhu would have been worse off. I just hate it when people can't see their own self interest.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:52:06 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Ralph's ruling, sending the message also to James:

Ralph, I believe your assessment is correct. I wish it wasn't.

Jason, I realise that this means you may be better off just stealing Japan from me, if no one opposes you. I'd rather that I had the assistance, obviously, so if this is a concern, we can either sweeten the pot a little or make a different deal.

Even if you don't like the Japan offer right now, I'll still trade it to you in exchange for another group. Once my turn starts, if I still have it, it is going to get destroyed, so you might as well benefit from it. I certainly don't want any of the other 3 getting it.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:00:24 +1000 (EET):

If you don't help me out, I'm going to be too weak to do anyone any good (at the moment, that's you, 'cos I'm not helping those other guys). Thany is hardly going to let me back in the game once NY is gone.

Oh, I can owe you the extra action token if you like, or give you a plot.

The thing about taking Japan is you can get it from me by spending a relatively weak action (if you have any weak ones!). To steal it will need a fairly strong one; and if you don't take it before Good Polls goes it will be dead anyway, so unless you have a Media Blitz, you can't get it anyway.

The group you trade to me (which may well be the group you use to take it with) I can pay to get on my own turn.

What I'm really looking for is suggestions on your part.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:56:38 +1000 (EET) (This time is known to be wrong): Glen replied to Jason's message:

OK, that's a deal as far as I'm concerned.

possible, but if he was going to cancel, he would have cancelled by S&L Scam or my Hoax.

Oh, you won't. I need your good will much more than you need mine right now. In fact I have never, ever played an I Lied. It is one of the cards I absolutely will not play. R$T is another. Not that you can tell of course.

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:56:33 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

ok...what is the current roll at now?..I have kind of lost track, I will probably just take the free takeover of Japan if that is allowed (this is a weird position, so I'm not sure of the correct pattern.) so I don't have to spend massive AT's to do so, less it has to be one from you, in that case, I may or may not try to attack to take it over...but I'll take the blitzkrieg..:)

I may also be in need of your assistance, as I am slightly Disaster targetted with my design over here...

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:00:28 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Ralph's comment that he'd made his offer of a trade for New York to Thany, not to James. He Cc'ed James, bringing this message from 'comment' to 'conspiracy'.

Oops. Embarrassed grin. No wonder James ignored it.

Sorry James. I was thinking you were passing up a great deal, and I hadn't actually offered it to you, I just thought I had.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:07:03 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James again about Ralph's comment:

Sorry again about that screw up on my part James.

Anyway, if your aiding the attack was not personal, I take it that maybe I can get some help later to get back into the game?

I'm no good to anyone if I'm out of it completely.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:18:09 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message:

10. either Network or England is fine (though obviously I prefer a roll of 2 to a roll of 4).

No, either of us may spend a token to transfer a group between us. Either the group, its old master or its new master may spend the token. (So whatever token you spend is its new master).

If you prefer I'll give you the Blitzkrieg, and we can work a Japan deal later (actually on your turn, when the time comes). That may be better, I think.

Can we do it that way? I think there's less chance of confusion over who is getting what when, and you take less of a risk.

Yes. What aid I can, at least for the next turn or so. (No promises once your victory comes close - at least not yet).

Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:41:45 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message, declaring England's contribution, and also giving this explanation:

Reason for England over Network..if he does cancel..that leaves me 8 to add in if needed afterwords...

so I'll get the Blitz now, and on my turn, take the Japan. I'll also promise (i'm actually usually very trusting person) to assist you in future assaults if needed.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:50:12 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Then you're the ally I'm looking for.

(Back to history)

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:46:22 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote a message to James about England's defense of New York:

Well, gee, looks like Glen sweettalked Jason pretty good. I don't suppose you feel like throwing the Assassins token in, do ya? Why did this become so difficult? All I wanted to do was to kill New York and the NPCs. These are generally considered laudible goals. Groan...

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:50:18 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni then wrote a message to Jason:

Just out of curiosity, what did those rat-bastard Bavarians offer you that justified making Cthulhu your enemy? I see two coastal places sitting over there, and I don't think anyone will miss them.

If you threw in just for that measley Blitzkrieg...

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:00:19 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni implored Thany:

Still don't feel like getting rid of New York? You know you want it.... you want it bad.... join the dark side... it's getting lonely over here....

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:00:19 -0800: Jason responded to Don Fnordlion's question:

As it sits right now, I see a roll that seems fair and just. And just because I helped him this time does not mean I will not help him in the future. You were getting yourself into FAR to powerful of a position and I am afraid I could not allow that, even at the cost of your anger. And If there was something more out there that I recieved for my assistance, I am sure that it will be revealed in the course of the game, or there may not be.

P.S. If you would like to try this attack again at another time, I may be more than willing to assist, but knocking a man totally out of the running within the first turn just isn't my idea of a game.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:59:31 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Jason's message, Cc'ing James:

A 4 is fair, after spending /all/ my tokens, the Bavarian token, and two of the Assassins' groups' tokens, /and/ burning 2 plots and an Agents card? I don't get it.

Um, I'd like to see how killing New York suddenly made me FAR too powerful, with a power 1, a power 2, and a power 3 group (which stands a good chance of self-destructing). If you hadn't noticed, I'm doing you a favor by killing New York.

Only the Assassins seem to understand this.

This makes no sense.
Destroying New York now, in turn 2, makes me too powerful.
Destroying New York later, when it's well-boosted and well-defended, and when I almost /have/ to be closer to my goal, is reasonable.

This is second turn, and haven't you heard the expression, "The early Shoggoth gets the Elder Thing?" He still has Japan and the Perpetual Motion Machine, fer crissakes! I have no way to attack Japan, since it's all boosted with the Good Polls.

If New York was destroyed, it hardly knocks him out of the game. At worst, it makes him play a little bit of catchup for a turn. Maybe you've never dealt with Bavaria before, but the only way to beat Bavaria is to attack him early and often.

Whatever he offered you, he played you like a fiddle.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:24 -0500 (EST): (This date is a LIE!) James wrote to Don Fnordlioni about England's defense of New York:

Well doesn't that just bite the big one. Grrr.

I really need to get through these next couple of plots, so separating me from my Illuminati token will require some sort of plot deal. That token spend may also doom my NPC attack, although it still may be salvageable.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:10:28 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James's message:

I have nothing to offer you that you would find remotely interesting. I am so deep in the hole as it is -- I explain this in my correspondance with the Network.
I can't reasonably commit any more to this attack. If it's a loss, it's a loss. There's nothing more I can do.

Bavaria will ATO Texas, then make a Privileged attack with New York for the Pentagon, then play NWO:Gun Control, and take over the Clipper chip.

This scenario puts him at 52 power, spending New York and Bavaria's Perpetual Motion Token, making one roll at a 9, and playing one plot. And I just thought of this right now, off the top of my head.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:57:23 -0800 (PST): Jason wrote to Glen:

I just recieved a very nice and subtle death threat from Mr Cthulu, so I hope you are still going to be strong in that assistance, as he gets a nat +8 to destroying the coastal groups and I'm kind of sitting in the wide open right now. Luckily I do get one turn of retribution so maybe I'll get lucky enough to be able to survive the onslaught, but not without some help.

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:03 -0500 (EST): James responded to Glen's apologetic messages (one and the other):

No offense taken at the recent mistaken identity. I've probably done the same and most likely will in the future. I was wondering what the hell you were talking about! I was beginning to think I'd shifted between universes again. :) You did make a tempting plot offer, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I play against a VERY powerful Bavaria. He'll be in position to win by turn 3 if he bounces twice no on attacks him and gets a bad draw. At worst/best, depending which side of the deck you're on, its a 2 turn win.

7 minutes later...

True, so very true. Help... maybe, you understand if I won't promise anything. Keeping you in the game... yes, right now it'll be by hurting That Other Bavaria. I'm presently lining up support for an attack on the NPCs. I think I've got a decent roll, but not if he's got any defense cards or plot cancelers. I'd love a +10 for Govs (Emergency Powers?) but even if you have one, you'll probably need it if That Other Bavaria attacks you. Although usually they have a better attack straight from hand, there's no telling in this game.

Bye for now from this games' liaison to the SoA...

(back to history).

Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:31:54 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Thany's announced use of the Nuclear Power Compaanies (before it was confirmed):

This pleases us.
This pleases us greatly.
All past grievances are hereby forgotten, as far as we're concerned.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:37:10 +1000 (EET) Glen wrote to Jason about Thany's announced use of the Nuclear Power Companies (again, before it was confirmed):

Well, you called it... I was wrong.

Now, I'm not holding you to anything, but if you would, the Network token would go down a treat right now.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:41:14 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Thany's announcement, referring to the 'I don't care any more' subject line of Thany's message:

You probably don't need to care. I've already drained Mr C. by trying to stop his nasty little game. I'll know better next time and play along with him, and I'd be in a relatively better position, and you'd be about to lose the NPC's (which now you won't of course).

Some people just have no gratitude.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:58:21 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason during the discussion about whether both or only one of the players who simultaneously contributed to the attack should act:

I'm not clear precisely where things stand with the attack for the moment, so even if you intended to aid again you should hold off.

There's only one circumstance under which you should consider adding in the Network at this point (if it happens, I'll mention it).

Otherwise, you're better off hanging on to it for defence.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:04:55 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

Yeah..I had planned on holding onto it for defense, unless it looks like I even have the possibility of being able to assist, but since both people are looking willing to throw them in, the best possible scenario would make the roll a nine.

I may be able to help you in other ways some of the other peoples power structures have cards in them that I don't like seeing in a game or would rather see them somewhere else.

P.S. Am I still going to be able to get Japan for free or you just goin g to give me a free attack at it, in which case I'm gonna have to fight off James and Thany's extra action tokens they leave themselves.

Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:56:00 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's question:

No, you get it for "free", but I want something small for it - you just don't have to fight everyone. But you'll need that token off the NPC's first.

Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:09:13 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

True..he maay try to nullify it..which will benifit you anyways..:)..but I'm sure the time will come for us to help each other. It's gonna be pick on Glen and Jason game..*grins*

Q:blitzkrieg says that I can play it on a card I just took over, does this include Japan as I am taking it from Glen?

Ralph ruled that the answer was 'yes', since Blitzkrieg says 'play this card after you take control of any Group.'

(back to history).

Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:59:57 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

Given that the NPC's still have their token, here's a thought on why you might want to spend the Network token: purely so Thany can't cancel the transfer of Japan to you on your turn (assuming his go is after yours - I can't remember).

Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:02:40 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Thought about that..but he has his turn first..:)

Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:11:07 +1000 (EET): Glen offered to Thany:

If you cancel the attack, I'll give you New York on your turn.

(NPC's cancel Servants)

(back to history).

???: Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's assertion that Glen was in a good position for a turn 2 victory, with a message that Glen intended to send to all readers, but only sent to Don by mistake:

Those of you who've been most closely involved in negotiations with me will know for certain I can't win by turn 2.

Now that the roll is over, once you all see what else has to happen, you'll wonder if I can survive round 3. I certainly do.

Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:14:50 +1000 (EET): Glen followed up to that message with a message meant only for Don Fnordlioni:

Anyway, once you know what I know, (which will be soon), you will wonder how I can last. NY was my only real chance to survive. Only if Thany is terminally slow on the uptake do I have a hope.

(This is not meant for the list in general)

James Eddleman's Turn 2

history | hands | conspiracies | comments

Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:25 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni and Jason:

Well, do you still support an attack on the NPCs?

I can bring it to a 7 before Bavaria spends NPCs in defense. (They can't cancel Secrets!) I can also bring out a resource to increase NSA by 2, which, as a bonus, he might cancel.

The only thing that messes this up would be Good Polls/+10s. Do either of you know if he's got either of these? Do either of you have a Gov't +10 I could use just in case? Or be able to cancel one if one were to come out?

Just wanted to see where y'all stand before I went ahead.

Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:29:32 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

I'm still having trouble getting a read on The Network -- I can't tell if they're friend or foe. (You can tell by this mail that you're in my "Friend" category.)

So, this is what I'd like to know:

Is the NPC attack still possible? Sherlock continues to insist he has no NPC token, and I'm happy to agree (if he insists he spent it to cancel England's action, so be it. What say you, Ralph?).

If it's not possible, I'm considering throwing the Atomic Monster on England to wipe its tokens out, or on Finland to do the same, when it's Jason's turn, after he places actions. I have no chance of getting England destroyed (16-16+4+4=8 to devastate, 2 to destroy), but I do have a chance to get Finland (20-16+4+4=12 to Devastate, 6 to destroy).

So, I'm asking your opinion on two matters:

Obviously, you're likely to say "England," since that doesn't have a chance of advancing my goals, but if that's the only reason... well, you understand if I can't take that opinion seriously. England has the two tokens, which is dangerous, I grant you, but Finland won't count for /his/ goal when it's devastated, and he'll need to muster up 18 points of power (or a spiffy plot) to bring Relief. If Eliza manages to find herself in Finland, then Finland will be the definite target.

I really am trying to get some tactical advice here... my goals aside, which do you think is the better target?

By the way, a shared victory between the two of us isn't completely out of the question -- it might be something to plan for. I'm happy to consider handing over the Robot Sea Monsters as a later bargaining chip, or to facillitate a shared win...

(See comment)

Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:31:56 -0800: Jason replied to James' message:

if you are planning on totally removing the NPC's..I have not one problem with it at all and you will have the support of the Network..I don't have any cards to assist, however, but I will throw in my 8 power from the network (which is better then the 2 he could cancel from you), so if we can trick him into cancelling a weaker power, then I can throw in with a higher one. It is also possible that he might just use the Action token in its own right for the 8 power it would give him, giving him a 22 defense (4+8+10).

(back to history).

Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:16:32 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' message, Cc'ing Jason:

Wholeheartedly. I've sent you mail regarding this very subject, and the availability of the Atomic Monsters.

I'll reiterate, though, for the sake of Jason -- I'm happy to commit the Atomic Monster to the attack, presuming the attack actually has a reasonable chance (8 or higher).

Let me say that another way -- I'll commit the Atomic Monsters after the Network commits its token, unless something remarkably fortunate/unfortunate happens. I don't want to waste my Monster on an attack that won't have a chance.

What if they cancel the attack altogether? Not that I mind too much, cause I'll get my plot back. But I really would like to see the NPCs gone.

Would it be possible to lure the NPC token off, before the real attack?

I think he's deathly afraid of losing the NPCs. He wouldn't cancel something as trite as a Clipper Chip.

Welp...... it might be best to presume he has at least one. Notice, all his groups are Conservative. A Good Polls or a Slush Fund would be smart for him to have at least one copy of.

It wouldn't be wise to gamble on that.

Not on me, nope.

Again, I can't help you. Used my Hoax already.

The Atomic Monster is yours for the asking, as long as there's a good chance.

Gotta either get rid of the NPC token, or believe him when he says he's spent it.

Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:36:42 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message, Cc'ing James:

I responded to James's response directly to him by mistake so you didn't see it Don...but I am MORE then willing to toast the NPC's..I know it will leave me vunerable..but I'm not exactly a threat over here with my piddling little groups..

Lets see...the NPC's can only cancel actions..which means somewhere someone has to sacrifice to get rid of that Action token..I have a feeling it may be my Network token that gets nailed though...would you two have enough power to take him..

He has two options..cancel one of us and defend at a 14(less he has any allignment differences) or he can defend at a 22 w/o canceling.

could be interesting..there isn't anything higher then power 8 for him to cancel.

Mon, 18 Nov 96 20:24:25 EST: Don Fnordlioni responded to a comment from Ralph, Cc'ing Jason and James:

Foolish me.
Forgot that bit.
(Note to self: Reason #23 not to play New York. Impossible to Relieve.)

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:02 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlion's message:

Aaahh! Be careful who you cc, this was sent to The Network as well! Now he's going to wonder what's going on.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:51:02 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Oh well.
If he asks, I'll explain. Help destroy the NPCs, or else. Shrug. If I blast him, he deserves it, anyway, for defending New York.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:36:33 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Jason's message, Cc'ing James:

Welp, it just occured to me, the NPCs can't cancel a Secret action. They can only defend against it. So, if the NSA attacks, the attack will, in fact, happen.

So, I'm looking at this scenario:

N.S.A. attacks with alignment bonus, Fiendish Flouridators aid with special bonus, Atomic Monster is played:


NPCs defend with proximity, power, and token: 26-4-8-10=4

Network aids: 4+8=12

Good Polls or Slush Fund is played:

12-8=4 or 12-10=2

Assassins aid:

4+7=11 or 2+7=9 (If latter, Nephews can throw in for 10)

So, the moral of the story, it looks good from here. The Network token is essential, though. The Blue NWO needs to stay in play, too (and I have no reason to think it won't).

(See comment).

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:37 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message, Cc'ing Jason:

Right on the nose. I guess you don't read what's in parentheses, 'cause I said as much in one of my emails.

Yep. Except you missed the extra +5 from FF to destroy a Conservative. So, all on my own:
NSA's 5 + 8 Alignment + 3 FF + 5 from FF = 21 - 14 base = 7 Or Atomic Monster could be played instead of my spending FF making it a 14 before Bavaria defends.

I'm rather busy this week, so I may be kinda slow on responses. I'm also waiting to see if this Bavaria has convinced Ralph he has no NPC token, or vice versa. What's up with that, Ralph?

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:02 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Thanks, friend. I think it going to be a matter of Us against Them.

The only thing I'm sure of is that he's up for sale to the highest bidder.

I also wanted to say that it would be a good idea to try and come up with a reason to keep Atomic Monster around. For possible use against Japan later on, for example. If Bavaria doesn't have the plot cards to defend the NPCs, The Network and I can destroy NPCs and you'll make England or Finland a hole in the ground. If Bavaria does, well, then we still have that card to aid. Whatd'ya think?

I'm not sure which (England/Finland) would be better. Getting rid of the 2 tokens is good, so is taking out a group that counts double. Anyway, I figure this is in the planning stages and the path will be clearer as the game progresses. Much like my attack on the NPCs. A few possibilities have shaken out since the last round of spending.

Note on shared: if you were to destroy one of the groups on the Network, we'd be even as far as goals.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:06:25 -0800: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Interesting..and is someone thinking about disastering me? I'll let you know I will not be happy should this happen and will have my revenge.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:12:03 -0800: Jason replied to James' message, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni:

I am willing to assist in this attack as it looks like my +8 may yet be of use to it, however. I am noticing some threats against my Northern European Nations, Now I could just save my token to bring relief to that as Ralph pointed out, but I'd rather help in this attack to remove something that threatens us all, namely the NPC's. If I can have an agreement (I know it's not binding cause this is INWO) not to go after my smaller Powerstructure, I'm sure we can all come to some mutual understanding.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:09:53 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Jason's message, Cc'ing James:

Just talking about The Network's defendability, is all. grin. I commented that New York is such a poor choice when Cthulhu is in the game, since the price of Relief is so steep, and it looked like you were in the same boat. I was obviously, mistaken, though -- relief isn't nearly as hard for you as it is for Glen, which makes Glen a more appealing target.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:14:51 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Jason's resquest for an agreement, Cc'ing James:

What, I can't go after you ever? What's the fun in that? :)

I agree with you, though -- the NPCs are a much more immediate threat, so, if you do help out, I can promise not to go after your smaller power structure.

(See? I really did wanna get rid of the NPCs for the good of all -- I'm not even getting the credit for the kill anymore. :)

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:16:58 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni gloated to James about the Don's promise to Jason:

Of course, once the NPCs are gone, he won't have the "smaller power structure" any more. He'll be just as big as Sherlock.


Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:32:52 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message, Cc'ing James:

This is true, I hadn't thought about this when I chose my groups, but that does make me rather easy to rebuild.

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:44:25 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' "Thanks, friend" message:

2 against 3 isn't so bad. Besides, we're the only ones with Secret groups...

Well, like I said, I don't have good chances to get either Finland or England until at least next turn.

If I make the attack at the beginning of his turn, he's bound to want to hit me back (even though he's /earned/ this strike, by fooling with New York). England's in a good position to steal the BATF away from me, with the F&L and the BATF's pathetic resistance. However, I'd like to slow him down, because with all that power, the computer bonus, and his plots (he's sure to be holding Blitzkrieg, by the way), he'll end his turn in a great position should he remain unmolested.

So, I think the devastation of Finland may be in order, before he gets a chance to use that +6 this turn. I'd really rather not face England, though... (whine). Eh, I may be able to pull another disaster if I luck out and destroy Finland. Or maybe my good buddies the Assassins could help me out (I think the BATF in my hands is safer for you, than in someone else's hands..... smirk. Someone else might actually defend it properly :)

Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:57:06 -0800: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's message, Cc'ing James:

Oh I don't mind later..but not right now..give time to at least look like a threat..:)

Ok then..someone start this ball rolling..lets watch the NPC's go boom..:)

Tue, 19 Nov 96 18:35:15 EST: Ralph answered James' question, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni and Jason:

He has the NPCs token. He hasn't responded to the last message I sent to him explaining that he had it, which was Thursday or so. That's about as much as I know--I don't think you should make any plans that assume he won't play it.

(back to history).

Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:23:11 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James about James' attack on the Nuclear Power Companies:

This is the point where the Network spends its token, right? Go team go!

Looking at my pathetic little power structure, I think I'd rather not attack the Network until after his turn is over.

It's just too dangerous. England or Finland can take the BATF easily, even with the Assassins spending on my behalf. Once I start my turn, I can toast Finland with my tentacles tied behind my back.

I'm hoping he's just going to try to race to victory, and spend his tokens away willy nilly taking over computer groups.

If Finland keeps a group, it'll go back to his hand. tee hee.

So, it's better for me to wait.

Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:48:04 -0800: Jason wrote to James:

The network will assist if needed, but lets wait and see if he joins in, caus you probably gonna be using that A.M. card. No sense wasting stuff that we don't need to add.

Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:57 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni and Jason:

Just a note to keep in touch about what I'm up to...

At the moment I'm waiting to see if he'll respond. I haven't decided whether or not I'll roll on a 7. I was hoping the 7 would be enough of a threat to see something out of him by now. I wouldn't mind seeing the Atomic Monster played, but that might prove usefull against Japan in the future. I know New York is lost, but he does have the PMM. And that can be dangerous. It would also depend on what the NPC Bavaria does, if anything.

I can't legally spend Nephews at the moment; they would have to be a puppet of the NSA. I would also like to keep my Illuminati token so I wouldn't be nearly bare for a whole round.

Anyway, continuing in terse mode...

Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:58 -0500 (EST): James respondes to Don Fnordlioni's "This is where the Network spends its token?" message:

Hmmm... you want him to spend, he wants you to use Atomic Monster...

I'm kinda in the middle. I would try harder into talking him into spending that token, but my darned honor won't let me do that knowing what card I want to play after the attack. It's World Hunger, don't ya know. And I think it would be a good card to use to get rid of the present NWO out there. Or would you rather I wait to play it? (So you could get some use out of it during your turn.) Let me know, fellow member of Dark Alliances...

Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:51:25 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James:

If I had anything that'd help, you'd have it in a second.

Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:30:33 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' message, Cc'ing Jason:

You're tellin' me. Grin.

Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:38:27 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' message:

Smirk. I'd rather not get in a waiting game. heh. But I'd also rather not let the Network pull three plots.... then again... you have the ability to /know/ what his next three plots are, for free.

I have no present use for Fear & Loathing -- I might be able to use it on my fourth turn, but certainly not my next (third) turn. And I have no wish to see it around for that long.

Re: The Atomic Monster. I have no problems in playing it for the NPC attack -- I do have another, somewhere (not in hand). And I have a slew of other disasters, which are just itching to come up....

I think the Network can be safely left alone until my next plot draw. I don't really want to attack them on their turn, anyway, since they can rip the B.A.T.F. away from me pretty easily if they feel provoked.

Now, where did I leave that ol' Monster....

I will agree to play the Atomic Monster, now, if you can find out what the Network's next three plots are before he draws. You don't even have to tell me what they are. I'd just like someone to know.

Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:17:43 -0800: After he had sent his instructions to use the Network's action, but before that action had been processed by the moderator, James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message, Cc'ing James:

I've put in my Action you back your seven...just remember..that leaves me bare for Sherlocks any help you can give me if needed will be appreciated...

Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:34:15 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James, citing Jason's message:

If you need my Atomic Monster (and not having go after Finland after Network's turn is over), feel free to let me know. It will be played if you request it. (Ralph, you can treat this as a directive -- the Assassins have the power of attorney over my Monster. grin.)

Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:01 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

How did you know he was going to be my 'random' target? :)

Anyway, he's already acted, so I'll let the dice roll. I have another attack against the NPCs, if this one should fail. That one will require the AM. Playing it now would be a waste. Using a +10 to bring an attack up from 7 to 10 just isn't worth it when I could roll an 11 or 12 and I have another attack available to me.

So if no one does anything else, I'm ready to let you roll those 'dice' Ralph.

Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:05 -0500 (EST): James responded to Jason's message, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni:

Cool! Thanks! I don't know what help I'd be during a priviledged attack, but I'll try.

Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:49 -0500 (EST): James wrote a message to Ralph and Don Fnordlioni, explaining his plans for Thanksgiving vacation. The part that is relevant to the game is this:

The remainder of SoA's turn if nobody changes the die roll (which I don't think anybody can) will be:

  1. Draw my plot for FF
  2. I will use NSA's free ability to look at the top 3 plots of ... hmmm...einy, miny, miny, mo...The Networks' plot deck.

I will check back later around 9 pm. Hopefully you'll (Ralph) have sent me that info. If not, I can stop by on way out of town toworrow around 9 am. So I should be knocking after that. (What I see will determine if I play World Hunger right now or not. Otherwise, I'll play it at the end of my turn if Don would like me to.)

Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:19:56 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James after the news that James had rolled a 5 on his attack:


Thanks for your help, oh sneakier-than-us-but-just-as-evil Assassins...

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:40:17 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Thany:

If the NPC's had survived the roll, Don would have played the Atomic Monster. James' attack was mostly to draw the NPC's token, but he wanted to avoid giving Don another kill if he could.

Now, if you'd listened to me properly before, chances are you'd still have the NPC's.

Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:32:03 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Glen's message:

Ah, shaddap. I'm not playing with Zog (I hope).

(see comment)

Glen's response, at Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:03:31 +1000 (EET): ":)"

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:28:45 -0500 (EST) (this date may be wrong): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Um, I don't mind the World Hunger getting played at the end of James's turn, if he needs to dump a plot (I'm not sure how many he'll have). I'd kinda like to save it, though, as a surprise -- like after an attack that uses the Fear and Loathing bonus gets committed. That would be amusing. Capiche?

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:16:23 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote a careful message to Thany:

The Servants of Cthulhu would like to purchase your agents in the C.I.A.

Of course, mere money and baubles mean little to our and your Illuminated selves, so we are willing to agree to the following:

In exchange for the C.I.A., we will not participate in any attack against you until you are on the verge of victory. Definitions, of course, are in order.

1: "Verge of Victory" is defined as:

* Please note: Definition 1 is negotiable.

2: "Participate in an Attack" is defined as:

So, to reiterate, your groups may enjoy full amnesty from Cthulhu's appreciable might, in exchange for the C.I.A. Now that the Nuclear Power Companies are out of the picture, we are much more comfortable with your continued survival, and wish to offer our appendage^H^H^H^H^H^H^H hand in friendship.

We'll also ask Great Cthulhu to stop sending you nightmares, but we can't promise anything.

This agreement will take effect upon receipt of your C.I.A. agents, whenever you decide to hand them over, except during an attack (though this is also negotiable, if the situation arises).

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:50:56 -0600 (CST): Thany replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

The Bavarian Illuminati, having read the agreement, do promise to change control of the agents within the CIA to the Servants of Cthulhu at the time when the aforementioned agents become readily available to the said Illuminati.

<Hokey doke. They're yours just as soon as they're mine.>

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:59:47 -0800: Jason wrote to James:

Any chance I could get ya to tell me what those plots are?..:)

Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:42 -0500 (EST) (I suspect this date of being false): James replied to Jason's request:

Well... since you helped me out.. hmmm.... ok. :)

Well kind of. The first 2 you'll find out soon enough. You do enjoy suspense, don't you? ;) The 3rd is Power Grab.

If you despise suspense or have need of discarding, speak up and I'll see that the NSA passes on that information.

Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:36 -0500 (EST) (this date may also be wrong): James responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Amusing indeed. A wise choice, sir. However, beware priviledged attacks.

BTW I know what Seize the Time does, but what would Couter-Revolution do for the Network? (Don't have my book here and don't feel like starting up netscape.) Just some food for thought, I'll look it up later.

Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:09:22 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Anyway, for Counter-Revolution, I say this:
Counter-Revolution (Plot)
Use this card when you play, from your hand, a Nation which duplicates a group that has already been destroyed. This also requires action(s) by your Illuminati, or by Government groups with a combined Power of at least 10. You may now play that Nation as though it had never been destroyed. The original Nation no longer counts as "destroyed" for the goals of whoever destroyed it!

This can mean a couple things. I'll sort in order of what I'm considering likely:

a) Network has Japan in his groups somewhere, and will happily aid in someone else destroying Japan should it get controlled by someone else (Japan is quite popular for most illuminati). Of course, he'll then just ATO it. Very annoying.

b) Network has two Japans, realizes its fragility, and the Counter-Revolution will let him bring it back once it's inevitably destroyed, as this is often Japan's fate. Slightly more annoying.

c) Network is holding multiples of Finland and Japan, and perhaps other Nations which he'll find useful. This is to protect the Nations from hostilities, at the cost of a mere Illuminati token or 10 points of Gov't power. Why? Because he's saving the kills for himself -- Population Reduction may be lurking in there. This is unlikely, but warrants some thought.

We can surmise, then, that his first two puppets, England and Finland, are indicitive of his groups: Most, if not all, are Nations and Governments. I wouldn't be surprised to see multiples of the following scattered throughout the deck as well:

Basically, I think we can look forward to a very Bavaria-looking Network. I'd rather him pay the price for Counter-Revolution over playing a Beach Party to save his Nations, but if I could get an idea of the rest of his plot hand, I'd like to see all them nation-savers go away.

I'm hoping that World Hunger will stick -- at least long enough to toast a key group from the Network (and have it stay toasted). If I can cancel any Blue NWOs after it, I probably will. World Hunger hurts everyone a lot -- except you and me, of course.

Thany's Turn 2

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Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:18:16 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany about Thany's roll of a power of 9 fo OPEC:

This is a good roll, but OPEC's average power is only gonna be 4 or 5, most of the time.

Because of OPEC's unpredictable power, it appears to make a silly Bavarian puppet. However, it makes perfect sense with all the Conservative groups he's controlling (and controlled, heh).

I feel confidant that Sherlock is going for a Let Them Eat Cake, if this wasn't obvious to everyone.

I'll happily try to stop Sherlock from destroying Liberal groups.

OPEC attacks to control Fraternal Orders

Sat, 30 Nov 1996 11:39:04 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni (who had been granted power of attorney over James' NWO: World Hunger while James was away on Thanksgiving break) wrote about Thany's attack on the Fraternal Orders, Cc'ing James:

I considered playing James's World Hunger at this point, but it'll only drop the roll to 10. Which wouldn't be too significant, unless James felt a need to further interfere. So I'll leave the decision up to him.

Fri, 29 Nov 1996 16:34 -0500 (EST) (This date is likely to be wrong): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Nahh, I'll save it for now. Although I could play it and then interfere with further, I think it would be better to save them. Defenseive purposes and all.

Sun, 01 Dec 1996 19:59 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Y'know, I been thinking and boy does it hurt. ;)

Seriously, with World Hunger bringing the roll to 10 I could then spend Nephews to bring that to a 7. It might be worth it, if Bavaria spends Vatican. I'd have one less token to defend from possible reprisals, or do you think we should just hope for an 11 or 12?

Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:00:28 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

We find that it's better to just succumb to the visions of Rl'yeh which assault our consciousnesses.

A 7 would be much nicer, yes -- that's a 50% chance, as opposed to a 89% with the 10 (right? or am I forgetting my 2d6 probabilities?). I don't think you'd have to fear much (any?) reprisal, since your turn comes before his, and if he /does/ spend Vatican, that's 4 points less global power for him to throw around later (like on your turn, which is when he's likely to spend a token just for the helluvit), which would make us all happier, methinks.

I'm just hoping World Hunger stays in play for longer than a heartbeat. I don't see many yellow NWOs getting played, though -- no use for MIC, WWIII, Don't Forget..., Whirled Peas, and little use for Bigger Business. End of the World is likely to come from you, and there might be another Law & Order lurking in Bavaria, but... that's about it.

So, I say, sure, sounds good.

Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:42:37 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni followed up his previous message to James:

Whoops, just realized I got my colors mixed up on the NWOs.
Oh well.
Forget that part, then.

(see comment.)

Jason Bostick's Turn 2

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Thu, 05 Dec 1996 13:52:56 -0800: Jason wrote to Glen:

I still ok to take Japan..that will leave you wide open come next turn..I just want to make sure.

Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:58:38 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

The deal was that I get a group of your choice on my turn back. If that's still OK, then yes, you can take it right away.

Otherwise, we need to discuss it.

Thu, 05 Dec 1996 14:05:30 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

a group from my PS or from my hand?..I don't know if I have anything that would assist you.

I will assist you in the takeover of a group or somesuch..but we should get it figured out soon..:)

Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:43:23 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Any group will do. I just want to make sure I finish my next turn with more than 1 group, and anough tokens to survive the threatened retribution of Don.

An assist might do. If you're as honest as you say, we can work it out.

Take Japan.

Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:52:07 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

Ok...if you REALLY wanna have fun..we could mess Don over..I have agents for both Mossad and BATF, I could take one, you the other..:)..that would make him think..*grins*

Sat, 7 Dec 1996 22:27:22 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Jason:

We don't suppose anyone believes the Network will be winning this turn, do they?

We're happy to unleash the Atomic Monster on Japan in order to stop a win, but that's about the only reason we can see to do such a heinous thing (I have some kinda god-awfully huge roll to destroy it).

We'd rather not earn their ire quite yet, without more than sufficient reason. If they are in line for a win, I'd rather use the Monster before Japan gets protected by Good Polls (again, sheesh).

As for the future, it appears that the Network is in the best position. I see them as the clear leader, especially with all those tokens and what they can accomplish this turn.


Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:55:40 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

I'm chomping at the bit to slam Japan with the Monster, but I still fear immediate reprisals. But I also fear another Good Polls, which would make Japan impregnable again.

I just thought I'd share my pain. This is the intellectual equivalent of quitting cigarettes.

Tue, 10 Dec 1996 16:03:16 -0800: Jason wrote to Glen:

As part of my assistance, I drew an extra plot card, if you would like it, cause James was nice enough to tell me what it was. It is a power grab. As I will not be able to use it anytime soon, I was wondering if you would be interested in having it as part of my good-will to your cause..:)

Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:25:26 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's offer:

Thanks for the offer; I wouldn't really be able to use it next turn either. I'll need to do more creative things than 2 ATO's that turn if I'm going to survive: Thany's obvious tactic is to take me out and get my resources...

I'll think on it a bit more, but I don't think so.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:30:03 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

No prob..I'll try to hold onto it, but James does know I have I might pass it off to you to hold on to for me so I can use it next turn or somesuch..I can also, if you'd like..give you one of these agent cards...I currently have no plans to use them in this turn.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:44:24 -0800: Jason wrote to Glen:

Ok..lets see how people play things..I'd like to hold onto it, but James may try to either steal it or expose it so someone else can mess with it....

Do you want the Agents?

Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:39:39 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message:

By all means pass it to me if you wish. I'll hold it until at least the end of my next turn (I don't know that I can hold it longer at this point).

Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:46:00 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's "Do you want the Agents?" message:

I don't have a use for them as yet; I need some groups with action tokens before I can do anything, but if you want to get rid of the clutter, sure. If you do give them to me but later have a use for them, let me know.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:55:01 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni commented to Thany, James, and Glen about Jason's playing New Blood on Russia:

Am I the only one who's getting more and more worried?

Four power 6 groups, with 5 tokens among them.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:51:54 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

I'll hold onto em for now..but should you wish to use one..I'm sure the Mossad or Isreal would be a nice addition to your Power Structure..:)

Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:01:48 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yes, thanks, I'll keep them in mind.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:45:37 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

You're not the only one. But, I'd like your suggestion on what to do about it. The OMCLs could change the relevant alignments, making them illegal targets, or you could destroy the groups altogether; but, either way, there will be the other three groups (variable number of tokens) waiting to defend or strike back, or both.

Or, one could take control of them, but that would not stop them from being targets.

Wed, 11 Dec 1996 22:21:01 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Thany's message:

Just between you and me, I plan on wasting Japan at the earliest convenience. Which should be right after the Network knocks. This is an interesting idea. Such an alignment change would only last but a turn, though.

Jason Bostick's Seize the Time! Turn

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Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:08:48 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany and James in reference to Jason's automatic takeover:

This is getting a little out of hand.
I'm definitely going to blast Japan before Network knocks. I'd appreciate some aid in defense should/when the Network decides to slam me for it. But something needs to be done. I believe my Monster roll attacking Japan comes out to 32 - 16 = 16 to Devastate, 9 to Destroy. If this is correct, Ralph, please, feel free to announce this attack on the Network's phase 6.

I know if I don't do anything, the Network will win by their next turn. They could hardly avoid it. I'd really like it if someone else ripped England away, too -- I would be happy to, of course, but I fear if I do that, people would start getting worried about my number of kills.

Oh, and if anyone has an aligment changing card, I'd like to see it played on one of his (many) groups which are benefiting from a to-6 card. This would please me.

And I don't expect the Japan to stay dead, sadly -- I have, on good information, he has a Counter-Revolution (in hand) to bring it back to life. If you'd like to save your Hoaxes, more power to you. I'd be happy to negotiate a favor for blocking the Counter-Revolution.

And if any of yinz leak this info to the Network, well.... you'll never sleep well again. Great Cthulhu will make sure of that.

???: In a message of which I don't have a copy, Don Fnordlioni wrote to James, "Ping!"

Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:13 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlioni's "Ping!":

Pinging with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from bytes=32 time=too long

Sorry, been busy. I have been paying attention, tho. I will aid your defense. Do you have a chance at destroying England? That'll take away 1 and put the other back in his hand. Remember he can't play any plot cards this turn (just a reminder, I'm sure you know this.)

Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:44:56 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to James' message:

This made me giggle. But now I suspect that you'll Unmask as the Network.

Actually, Japan is a 18 to Devastate, and a 11 to Destroy (just refigured my math with Japan's power of 4, not 6), while England is a 10 to Devastate, and a 3 to Destroy. No real chance to get England, and a Devastation would be pointless -- the printed power of 2 makes it real easy to bring Relief.

Unless, of course, you can promise a Bribery. Then I'd be happy to blast England. As it stands, Japan's counting double makes it a much more appealing target.

Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:02 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlion's message:

No, it just seemed appropriate.

Nope, don't have one of those. Looks like Japan is the target.

Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:05:27 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

The Bavarians are making no promises, yet.

I have a Paralyze in my hand, but I'm not sure how (if at all) it could help.

Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:47:28 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to Thany's message, Cc'ing James:

Well, fooey on you. :) I'll take the above as a "maybe."

If it can affect Finland, it would stop Finland from counting twice for his goals. IMO, it would be best to play it when he's declaring victory and doesn't have the token to free it, whatever group you visit it on.

Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:32:19 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason:

Assuming you don't do anything rash like declaring victory, would you mind letting me know when we're in your Phase 6? (ie, when you're just about to enter Phase 7 and knock).


Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:40:06 -0800: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Not a problem Don, just waiting for Ralph to say go ahead from when everyone returns on the 6th...

Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:48:40 -0800: After the destruction of Japan, Jason wrote to Glen:

Dang..he destroyed my Japan!..That no good scoundrel..

anything you can do to help me?..if's ok..but help again would be appreciated.

Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:41:02 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's request:

Sorry, I don't think there's a thing I can do at present.

Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:46:24 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

That's ok..thought I'd ask..:)

Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:44:48 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message:

No problem. Every card I had that could do something was played during my own turn, trying to save NY...

Glen Barnett's Turn 2

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Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:36:10 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason about the destruction of Japan:

I'm now happy to assume we're even, with that Japan destruction. It wasn't just a random act of violence, it was retribution for England's interferance with the attack on New York, which I specifically warned against.


Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:16:11 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Not a problem. I'm sure someone would have done it as this setup is like totally Disaster Prone and I was getting a little ahead of the rest of the crowd.

Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:32:41 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Glen about Glen's attack on the Local Police Departments, quoting Ralph's message announcing the attack:

I'd love to. But, it appears I can't. Oh well.
I'd suggest someone else make him fight a little for it, to get rid of that other Bavaria token, which worries me. I don't like it when one guy has 20 points of global power sitting around to foul up other people's attacks.

Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:02:00 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason about the attack on the Local Police Departments:

Given the current attack; rather than getting a group from you, would I be able to call on you for somewhere around 7 power? This should be worth less to you than a group.

Initially, just a smaller token might be enough. If I have to call on a second token, maybe I could give you something for it later.

Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:41:48 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

I can give you some support. I'm trying to save a few AT's for the round the board trip. I'll start by supplying one of Englands AT's.

Ralph-Cut here.

England, having had nice assistance from the bavarians, decides to assist them in return. Using part of the worldly touch.

<England spends one of its full AT's>

Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:16:27 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message, "Thanks!"

Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:23:22 -0800: Jason replied to Glen:

Not a problem..I can supply more..but I need to leave myself at least 10 pts of power (hopefully)..but I don't know..may have to wait...if this gets to be a serious fight..I'll help in more..(getting rid of those NWO's will help.

Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:40:42 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James Eddleman:

Would I be able to get the assistance of the Nephews of God in this attack? If Thany's godless Bavarian hordes weaken me enough on this attack, I won't be able to stop him from killing off Texas as well, and he'll get the Perpertual Motion Machine when I'm eliminated (since we are playing the same Illuminati).

Doubtless this is his aim.

I'm not exactly overflowing with stuff to offer you, though an Agent card for Germany looks like it might be useful to you.

I have a couple of plots you might be able to use as well, but I'll reveal those to you only if you have any interest in aiding. Another possibility is some combination, like Germany + a plot.

The aid of the Nephews would also help your case if you need help yourself later; I can't help you if I'm not in the game.

If I have the Nephew's token, I can hold Thany out this turn; by the end of next turn I should then be able to hold him off OK.

Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:48 -0500 (EST): James replied to Glen's message:

You won't be eliminated untill after your next turn, but I'll probably help. I'm going to think about it some more.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:07:23 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to James' message:

This is correct; though if he succeeds in holding me down now, it will make eliminating me that much easier. I'm worried that he and Don will between them agree to help each other take a group each off me after next turn, or something along those lines.

That's fine.

I'm open to negotiation, if that is a consideration.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:11:01 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

It is possible I might call on another token if that's OK, but I'd like to hold off while I finish another negotiation; depending on what happens I'd like to have a think about the best way to proceed.

Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:25:23 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Not a problem...if you can nuke some of those NWO's..I will have ALOT better assistance then my piddling little 4 and 2 pt tokens...

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:27:54 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message:

But that will drop my own Texas token, and the token I'm currently negotiating for.

Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:54 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

ok...I'll help if I can, but it's pretty small help..just holler.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:33:07 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James Eddleman:

This is mostly just a note to me, but I just took some time to figure everyone's standings, so I figured I'd share.

			Regular	Spec
Sherlock-Bavaria	42%	70% (35 Power out of 50)
Network			50% 
Assassins		50%
Cthulhu			40% 
Glen-Bavaria		16%	36% (18 Power out of 50)

Sherlock's tremendous lead is a bit illusionary, I admit -- OPEC could pull that down as low as 50%, and will average only 60% or so. And he's benefiting quite a bit from Law & Order.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:24 -0500 (EST): James replied to Glen's message:

Negotiation is good. As it turns out, I do like the Germany idea. However, I may not get to use it before there are more tokens on Germany Prime. What kind of plot were you thinking of?

Are you actually willing to trade Germany and a plot for a 3 power action, or was that just to get my attention?

BTW, I take it you're willing to roll on a 6.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:37 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's assessment of Goal Percentages:

Thanks! But aren't you at 42% also?

Yes, but with the other Glen/Bavaria pulling out conservatives and forgetting (conveniently or otherwise) to declare privilege, Sherlock/Bavaria could go through the roof quickly. Glen/Bavaria has offered a trade for some help, which will give me some leverage against The Network later if I take it.

Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:38:28 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James's message:

I figure 40%, not 42% -- 4 controlled groups out of 10 (12 - 2 destroyed). I expect this to drop shortly, though, after Japan is Counter-Revolutioned back to life. My next turn is likely going to be spent treading water.

Hmm. Yes, protecting Glen would be useful, if Sherlock drops enough tokens into any such attack.

Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:30:03 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to James' message:

Oh, it's quite conceivable I'd trade Germany and a plot, but it depends on which plot. And maybe on when, precisely. And I would also require that you don't tell anyone which group you got.

Germany and Celebrity Spokesman, I could go that far.


I could do you a New Blood. I was hoping to use it on the Local Police, but it isn't much good to me if I don't have them. But that's really worth a lot to me, so I wouldn't give you Germany with that.


Germany + probable assistance later (of course, you have no guarantees there, but it'd give you the opportunity to see if I can be trusted for about as little cost as you'll find in INWO).

I'd consider it. It depends on other things as well. Obviously I'd like a higher roll. If Thany comes back in with tokens, I'll probably throw my Bavarians token in.

Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:19 -0500 (EST): James replied to Glen's message:

Ok. I'll aid with the Nephews' action for the Germany Agent, and the next time you have a choice between attacking me and someone else, I'd appreciate it if you'd choose them. :)

If we have a deal, then:
"Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Texan Cult members getting deputized by the hundreds! Extra! Extra! ..."

Nephews of God lend their aid in wrangling the Local Police Departments. Their 3 Power brings the attack to a 6.

Just to save you time/let you know... My Illuminati action is not up for bargaining.

Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:52:43 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to James' agreement:


I didn't imagine for a moment it would be. In any case, I don't really have anything that would be worth it.

Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:49:02 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason Bostick:

Would you be willing to spend another token? Even two power at this stage would help a lot - 6 to 8 is about a 35% improvement. I'd like to hold Bavaria back for when Thany comes in with both his remaining tokens.

Anyway, let me know what you think.

Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:43:51 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Ok..England is mad now, and in the interest of continuing friendship, sends in yet more forces.

<if legal, spend Englands Second AT>

Mon, 20 Jan 97 15:59:28 EST: Ralph interjected a response to Jason's message, Cc'ing Glen:

Not legal: See the rules under "No Duplicates in the Same Attack!":

Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:18:31 -0800: Jason responded to Ralph's interjection, Cc'ing Glen:

Ok..didn't think I could..

Fine then..:)

Germany, having forgiven England and the US for pounding them into the ground, send over some old Panzar tanks to assist the the takeover.

<Germany's 2 power token>

This NWO BITES>.:)

Mon, 20 Jan 97 16:32:27 EST: Ralph replied to Jason's message, Cc'ing Glen, because he had made a mistake in the state-of-the-game web page.

I realize that I goofed--I forgot that Germany is affected by NWO: Law and Order as well as NWO: World Hunger. Its power is 4, not 2. Given that, do you still want to commit the action?

Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:36:02 -0800: Jason replied to Ralph's message:'ll be helpful..*grins* (besides.between it and Russia..they are both 4 pt tokens).

Glen Barnett's Seize the Time! Turn

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Round 3

Don Fnordlioni's Turn 3

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Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:26:49 -0500 (EST): After taking over Soulburner, Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason:

We hope you aren't planning on using Counter Revolution to bring back the once-glorious nation of Japan. Leave them to atomic ruin, please.

Not only would such an action annoy us, but it would be met with swift reprisals. We won't hesitate in dashing Japan away again. We'd rather focus on keeping the Bavarians down, not to mention the lurking threat of the Assassins (who appear to be winning at the moment).

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:03:56 -0800: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Why would I bring back a group who would only have a power 4 right now leaving them ripe for destruction again..I would much rather bide my time until I have a better chance.

If you want me to make sure I behave, get rid of those NWO's...otherwise, you never know what may happen.

James Eddleman's Turn 3

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Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:49:44 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to all players other than James Eddleman:

Hey, if anyone is sitting on New Blood, I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands, if the Assassins end up declaring victory at some point. That way, I can make my *Secret* Robot Sea Monsters power 6, and stop his *Secret* groups from counting double.

Just FYI.

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:14:21 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I have the new blood you want to use to slow him down, however...I want Japan back. I only have the two doublers in my deck. The main reason you don't want me to take it is because it takes away your destruction of it so you need that extra group and have one less destroyed, causing you double grief.

Currently, I have not draw my Japan, so am in no position to play it as of it is no

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:26:08 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Similarly, the Assassins haven't declared victory. So I don't need the New Blood quite yet. The point of the message wasn't neccisarily to negotiate around for one -- mostly just to let people know the option is there.

I may be willing to allow Japan's continued survival, once it's brought back in to play. A gift of Russia might be nice for starters, in addition to the New Blood (the Plot given to me during Glen's Phase 5).

If I was offered this, I would be willing to spare Japan the Atomic Monster's wrath.

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:59:32 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

If you took the russia, you would not be able to use the new blood on your R.S.M's as Russia already has New blood

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:16:41 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

It could be arranged. Just New Blood RSMs, take over Russia afterwards, and choose to discard Russia's New Blood.

Libertarians attack to control Germany

Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:25:17 -0800: After the announcement of James' attack, Jason wrote to Glen:

Any chance I could get you to use the OMCL's to change England away from being Goverment. I will lose 4, but he will lose 9 because it will no longer be a double attack.

If big deal..I'll think of something

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:00:54 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Jason's message:

Are you sure it is England's alignment you want changed?

The attack is on Germany, after all.

Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:16:06 -0800 (PST): Jason responded to Glen's message:

If I change Germany's's still taking over a nation from a goverment group. If I change England, it is only a nation from a nation..he gets no bonus..

I am assuming I read the card correctly..right Ralph?

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:32:45 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Here's the way I look at it...

Change England from Govt - James loses 9, you lose 4 - attack goes to 11 so nothing whatever is gained - he'll take that roll.

Change Libertarians from Fanatic - James loses 10 - attack goes to 6.

If you still want me to change England, no problem.

???: In a message of which I don't have a copy, Glen wrote:

It's OK, I see I misread the card.

There are other things I can do, though, such as make Libertarians non-Fanatic. That removes 10 from the attack. If Germany was not Conservative, it would mean the Nephews 6 points were gone, and so on.

If James is the only one to make the attack (no-one helps him), then you're not necessarily better off removing the doubling.

If someone else is going to help, I don't think you can stop it in any case...

Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:39:20 -0800 (PST): Jason replied to Glen's message:

If I can't stop him with just one help...I'm dead. I don't think most people are planning on helping him right now as he has three doubled groups right now He just wants Germany so he can mass produce AT's for powering cards and such..

Play it as you see fit. Any of those options moves me into a viable playing spot. I'll be there to help you come round when they attack you or when your turn arises..

I do agree with removed the +10 card. I just hope he doesn't use his INWO token in it (as it would be doubled as well)..

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:46:12 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

His Illuminati token?

Ralph's page indicates that it's gone.

Hang on, I'll see if I can work out where.

If he still has it, making England non-Government would be better.

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:48:53 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote another response to Jason's message:

It was spent to buy a plot (Jihad, I bet).

Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:53:14 -0800 (PST): Jason responded to Glen's message,

Ok..Could ya nuke the Jihad please..:)

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:56:55 +1000 (EET): Glen proposed an action from the Orbital Mind Control Lasers to Ralph, Cc'ing Glen:

The Libertarians, while brushing their nefarious teeth, and planning their shiny plans, suddenly are overcome with a strange feeling. Things aren't so all-fired important. Everything is in shades of grey. They can see both sides of all arguments.

[The OMCL's zap the Libertarians to non-Fanatic]

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:00:26 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to James:

Well, you aren't going to like what I just did, but I kinda have to. Prior agreements and all that.

Anyway, I know you have something in reserve... so it shouldn't be all that much of a tragedy to you.

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:03:20 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's "Could ya nuke the Jihad please" message:


If things develop, you may like to consider Don Fnordlioni as a potential source of help. He certainly has the tokens for it, and probably needs them for defense the least.

Tue, 4 Feb 97 02:27:48 EST: Ralph caught his error, and sent mail to Glen about it (Cc'ing James), in response to Glen's message:

No, he spent his Illuminati action before he got action tokens. What happened was that the moderator screwed up and forgot to add James' action tokens on the web page. Silly moderator...

Given this error on my part, I'll let Glen change his mind about his use of the OMCLs. Glen, if you still want to remove the Fanaticism of the Libertarians, please let me know.

Sorry for this mixup.

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:23:39 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

Well. Seeing how we're such good buddies, I'm inclined to not intefere on this attack. However, I notice this manuver puts you at 8 groups, and takes the Network down to 6.

I'm giving you the oppurtunity to convince me to look the other way.

Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:34 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Hmmm.... I thought you were worried about The Network. Well, mostly it was because I wanted to use the Libertarians special ability and it was my best option. Now that I have to come up with a reason, don't forget that The Network has a way to get Japan back out. He's also got a Power Grab he drew his last turn.

Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:47:13 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

Ah well, looks like you were right.

I don't see how you can keep Germany unless someone else steps in. He has a little surprise up his sleeve.

Anyway, I agreed to using the OMCL's, but I think given the token situation, your original assessment was correct.

I should change England away from Gov't.

If I don't hear from you in a few hours (sorry if it's a bad time), that is exactly what I will do.

Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:55:56 -0800 (PST): Jason replied to Glen's message:

Do it..I'm sure I'll survive..if not..we'll go from there.

Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:51:37 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:

I have a plot canceller I could let you have, but it's kind of valuable to me at the moment... anyway, if it could be of help to you, we might be able to organise something.

Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:59:33 -0800: Jason responded to Glen's message:

it is possible it may be of help..I haven't drawn any of my cancelers..otherwise I probably would have nuked the Jihad when played....lets see what dirty trick he has up his sleeve before we strip you of a helpful plot (Germany is not worth having you knocked out of the game(unless I do it of course..:))

Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:47:01 -0800: After Glen's use of the Orbital Mind Control Lasers, Jason replied to Glen,

Thanks for the we just see what dirty trick he has up his sleeve..if it's truely dirty..I'm gonna play one back on him.

Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:05:45 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni commented to Glen on his use of the Orbital Mind Control Lasers:

Interesting move.
Too bad it didn't affect the roll more.
Well, Network should be able to defend itself easily enough now.

Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:28:08 -0800: Jason wrote to Thany:

Is there any chance I could possibly get some assistance in protecting my Germany from James?..he is far ahead of all of us at this pt and could easily win should get take Germany from me for a token producing plant.

Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:46 -0500 (EST): James responded to Don Fnordlioni's public comment:

Thank you! Yeah, try an attack, see what kind of resistance they're going to put up, anad play accordingly. Now you see I couldn't pass up the opportunity.
I probably should have tried to destroy Fraternal Orders, but The End of the World is coming up if that Bavaria attempts to win. (As long as my reload doesn't get canceled.)

Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:23:24 -0500 (EST): After James' successful die roll in the attack against Germany, Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except James:

I'm a bit annoyed by this -- I wouldn't mind seeing that roll fail.

Sadly, there's nothing I can do about it, and little to offer.

Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:08:41 -0500 (EST): After James' Full Moon, Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany:

Check my math, por favor --

Atomic Monster vs. Germany:

16 (Monster)		4 (Germany Power)
 4 (Cthulhu)		5 (Proximity)
 4 (Robots)
--			--
24 Attack		9 Defense = 15 to Devastate, 8 to Destroy.

I don't intend to do this now, but it's nice to know I can block a victory if Germany just hangs out there. I expect a Big Prawn to surface pretty soon, though. I may have to blast it early.

I don't suppose you have any means to bump that destroy roll up to a 10, do you?

Thany's Turn 3

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Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:40:29 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

[mathematical snip]

It tots up fine to me.

<shakeshead> My Plot situation is currently pretty bland. I can only think of one card (maybe two) in this deck that could be used to help your Monster.

Jason Bostick's Turn 3

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Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:39:55 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's public comment:

I'm not the one you need to worry about..that stupid Society has got himself in a STRONG position..all I have is a Disaster prone setup..

concentrate on your true targets..not me

Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:38:19 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's follow-up message:

Stopping the assassins from winning should be enough for you to use that against them..and like you said..I have saviors in my deck...

If you would like..I can confirm that he's playing DOTW 24 by checking out his groups.....but I'm not even CLOSE to a threat to anything..for any win at all..

Society is one turn away...if cards are played right..hell..he's one turn away if no-one tries to stop him..and with secrets..he's got a MAJOR advantage over us..

Now I can give you the New blood for your RSM's..but then..I'm at even Further risk from you..

I'd just nuke the Germans..slow him down a bit.

Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:53:40 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Are you saying you're sure he has a Secrets or Hoax?
If this is the case, then the Monster will be ineffective against him, unless you have a Secrets or Hoax to respond in kind.

Glen Barnett's Turn 3

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Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:31:02 -0800: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

No..secret groups..if he attacks to control a secret group again..only your RSM's will be affective against him in stopping him....he's WAY too close

Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:07:09 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni responded to a previous message of Jason's:

Oh, btw -- since you sent this to the list, you might want to expose the New Blood at your earliest oppurtunity. There are no plot cards that lets one steal exposed plots, and there are no groups in play which affect exposed plots.

It's safer, now that everyone knows about it, exposed. Which is why I tend to expose my disasters.

Just some advice. Of course, such a group could come in to play, but I guess you have to decide how likely that is.

Don Fnordlioni was slightly off here--Jason hadn't sent it to the whole list. The error may have arisen because the message was Cc'ed to "Inwo-Email game <>"

Round 4

Don Fnordlioni's Turn 4

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Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:01:52 +1000 (EET): In a message with the Subject line "Weather Satellite AND Hitler's Brain!?", Glen wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:

We're dead meat, guys.

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:12:45 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

You may be interested in knowing I decided against targetting Germany with the Atomic Monster -- it's headed towards France, instead. The Network is still a threatening organization -- it's my impression they're more threatening than you.

This is mostly just FYI.

How do you assess the Vatican-Bavarians? They seem to have about a million tokens...

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:30:46 -0600 (CST): Thany wrote to everyone but Don Fnordlioni, in response to Glen's "We're dead meat" message:

I was just thinking that, myself. Anyone have a Suicide Squad, Hex, or some such related card (Hex? That wouldn't work...never mind) handy or at least in their deck?

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:53:46 -0800: Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni in response to Thany's message:

Not I...alas..nothing against resources

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:19:48 -0800: After Don Fnordlioni played the Atomic Monster on France, Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:


Guys..I haven't drawn my Anti-cards yet..any help would be appreciated

???: In a lost message, Jason replied to Glen's "We're dead meat, guys" message:

I must be missing a nasty combination off of this..he gets an extra plot when he destroys a group, giving him 2..and he can increase his power by 4 of his disasters...not really a bad combo.just nasty in and of themselves in a cthulu deck.

Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:49:22 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

It means that he has many more disasters to come. Lots of places down (especially you and me), You and me, we are going to die. I was trying to turn Thany and James against Don F. Oh, and perhaps he's a lot closer to a win than you think.

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:55:37 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Yeah..I clicked in just a second too late..but I have nothing to stop cards are not coming up right..nothing I can do at this pt.

Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:57:32 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's plea for help:

Hmm. I do have a Secrets, though I'm a little worried I'm going to need it badly Real Soon Now...

Don't tell anyone else I have one.

Oh, and I can't help myself...: Told you so!

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:41 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I figured something was up, since there was no communication...

Very bad, is my opinion. I'm not happy.

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:04:27 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Jason's plea for help, sending his message to everyone but Don Fnordlioni:

No anti-cards here. I'm not likely to be much of a help, at least, not now.

Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:08:15 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

We have, at our disposal, certain key members of the Senate, who are more than willing to impede Bavaria's growth -- a Senate Investigation Committee.

However, we're loath to actually use the ploy ourselves -- after this little orgy of destruction, we fear we might draw too much attention on ourselves.

Do you care to use the plot against the Vatican-Bavarians? It would save a lot of worry.

Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:15 -0500 (EST): James wrote to everyone but Don Fnordlioni, following up to Thany's message:

Sorry, can't help either. BTW, do the words 'Up Against the Wall' scare y'all as much as the scare me?

Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:20:35 -0800: Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni, following up to James's message:

*curse curse kick kick*..Can't believe only option right now is to spend my AT's to draw plots and pray I get my Early warning or something..anyone else got any other suggestions?

UAtW is very very viable..and very very scary

Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:00:43 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to Jason:


OK, I can stop him, of course, by cancelling.

The thing is, if he gets this one, he only needs another group (destroyed or controlled).

I thought from the start he wouldn't do both Hitler's Brain and Weather Sattelite without thinking he could win this turn. I bet he has another disaster, a group he can take, and probably a cancel card as well. If not, he'll soon pick them up, with his two plot draws.

Anyway, if I'm going to play it, I want to try and get something for it from the other players... since it will cost me 2 plots, plus the Secrets itself, a plot from everyone would be reasonable.

What do you think? Should I hold off?

Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:36:11 -0800 (PST): Jason replied to Glen's message:

Right now you are in the only playable position to stop him...I don't have much in the lines of plots to help you (maybe a new blood for you or something)..but I would be willing to pay it.

Odds are he will cancel the cancel..making him lose cards as well..but it will give us a chance.

I do have cards like early warning in my deck..I could waste my tokens on that first if we want to try for that before wasting your secrets..but I'd need defense in case James comes after my France or something.

Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:39:07 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:

Well, I may be able to stop him (or give Jason the means to do it himself), but that's going to leave me in a very vulnerable position. There's hardly a point in stopping him if I thereby remove what little hope I have left of winning myself; I'm pretty weak as it stands.

Anyway, if there was some inducement, I can see it will be worth stopping him, but as things stand right now, well, he might as well win as someone else...

Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:58:23 -0800: After drawing Plots, Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:

3 Blasted plots and nothing of great note. I did get a savings and loan scam, if someone is willing to power it, either for me or for someone else (dunno if you can power it for me to draw).

If anyone wants to try S&L Scam to stop him..let me know.

Fri, 28 Feb 97 13:37:20 EST: Ralph followed up Jason's message with a rules point:

Unless someone points me to a section of the rules of which I was not previously aware, I know of no way for one person to enable someone else to draw plots. (I sent a card suggestion once that enabled that...)

Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:41:54 -0800: Jason replied to Ralph's message, sending it to everyone but Don Fnordlioni:

Wasn't sure about powering plots for other's cool..I'll give it to someone if they thing they can use it to get something

Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:31:54 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message (writing only to Jason):

I'd consider swapping Secrets for S&L Scam. That way if he kills the Secrets, I might be able to draw something.

Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:04:26 -0800: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Ok..I've even got an idea..:)

I don't mind you seeing I'm leaving it in here just so we can get it done right

Ralph:if Glen ok's the swap..give him the S&L for the Secrets, then place Servants and Barcodes on the top of my plot deck.  Then play the the Secrets, discarding them..(should bring me back down to the right level of cards plus a couple

Glen:please don't mention the Servants Agent to the others..:)

Glen's answer, at Sat, 1 Mar 1997 11:22:27 +1000 (EET): "I'll swap the Secrets for the S&L."

Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:59:29 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James and Thany about Jason's playing Secrets Man Was Not Meant To Know:

Obviously, this is terribly annoying to me.

I'm of the mind that the Network needs to be aggressively attacked, seeing all those big-power nations out there. He's in a great position to leap frog into victory.

I'll willing to negotiate for a Hoax or Secrets, to deal with this Secrets. I can offer things like amnesty, plots (I have about a zillion in my hand), whatever. If you have one, please consider selling it.

B.A.T.F. Attacks to Control Saddam Hussein

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:59:55 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's "I'm just trying to salvage SOMETHING out of this turn" public comment:

Oh, you mean like salvage a victory?!

I make you very, very close to victory with Up Against the Wall.

If it is in your hand, you can probably win this turn.

Tell you what: Give me Soulburner and I'll keep my mouth shut.

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:46:03 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

Well, there's no point in pretending I don't have it in my deck. However, I can tell you in all honesty, I don't have Up Against the Wall in my hand, and I'm not going to get it unless I manage to blast something or otherwise draw some plots real fast. That Mossad has been useless to me in that respect.

Hhhmmmm. I think I really need that Soulburner to fend off the jackals.

I have a better idea.
I'm Exposing my Deasil Engine.
If I remember correctly, destroying a Resource will cancel its action.

So please don't make me destroy the OMCLs. I really would like to see them used against a victory declaration, rather than a non-victory attack (even if it was in my hand, or just coming up, I can't win with this move).

Too bad the NSA doesn't have a token. I'd love to see what my next few plots are.

Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:14:44 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

So how does threatening the OMCL's if I use them stop me pointing out you'll be one card from a win if you get this?

I guess you've given me carte blanche on explaining that...

As for the threat itself, look at it the other way:

Before, I could hold off using OMCL's for all sorts of reasons. To be perfectly honest, I never intended to use it with this attack. UNtil now. Now you force me to use it.

Why? Because now you've shown your intention to destroy it if I use it for something you don't like - which might be anything. Consequently, OMCL's are now useless to me while Deasil Engine is in your hand.

Hence, the only thing that I can use the OMCL's for is to force you to lose the Deasil Engine, so I might as well do that.

So unless the threat is removed somehow, I'll be pretty much forced to use the OMCL's, where before I had no intention of doing so - unless you can suggest another way out of the predicament.

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:34:40 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

I don't mind if you tell the world that. I think it's clear that the Assassins and the Network are just as close.

Actually, they're not useless -- like I've said before, using them on anyone /but/ me is very useful. I don't intend to stop you from using the OMCLs on anyone else to prevent their victory. I'll only stop you from using them on me, or for helping someone else win.

Well..... to be honest, I don't mind blowing them away on my turn either. That means it's one less card I have to choose when time comes to discard plots at the beginning of the next turn.

But, I'd rather they stick around for use on someone else. So, you can rest assured, they're not 100% useless.

Hey, you're the one who started threatening -- all I did was ask you don't use them. You responded by trying to blackmail me for Soulburner. Now I'm showing you that if you use them, it will come to naught.

If I were in your shoes, I'd save them for more pertinent threats. Remember, I failed my last attack (also thanks to you :), which put me in an uncomfortable position before this attack. This will not be so when other people's turns come up.

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:36:05 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany:

Say, I don't suppose those CIA agents have come up yet, have they?

Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:11:57 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Which I had no intention of doing.

That was

(i) NOT a response to the request not to use OMCL's, but a response to your statement about "at least getting something" when you were obviously very close to a win.

(ii) the opening bid in a negotiation. Obviously, when someone realises a rival is close to a win, they tell all the other players about it. That is a given in the game. I was attempting to help you by not doing that. I didn't expect you'd give me Soulburner, actually, but I thought maybe I'd get a token or a plot out of it. If you think an offer not to do something players do as a matter of course is a threat or blackmail, you are merely doing yourself a disservice.

Your actions throughout the game show me very clearly: "Don't attempt to negotiate with Don F"

It seems a pity. really.

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:58:43 -0600 (CST): Thany replied to Don Fnordlioni's question:

I fear not. Still looking.

Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:49:20 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message

Okay, so it shouldn't have been a problem :).

Okay, my mistake then. I presumed the more obvious.

I may not be used to different protocols of negotiation, for which, I apologize. In the games I've been in, the catchphrase is usually, "What's it worth to you?" Obviously, I panicked when you made out like you wanted to rip my little soulburner away -- I may value it more than you (unbeknownst to you). Essentially, I found the request both preposterious and dangerous, and responded by showing some muscle.

Again, I presumed you were talking about using the OMCLs. Like I said before, I don't mind if you tell the world about how close you think I am.

BTW, this seems like you're verging on taking things a litle personally. I haven't been very responsive to you, in particular, I admit that -- I treated you like a bitch real early in the game, and I expected to make a lasting enemy over the New York thing -- after which, you said in so many words, if NY goes, you'll make my life difficult for the rest of the game.

I took that seriously, and have been playing accordingly, mostly by not considering you an ally except under the most dire circumstances. Which is why I haven't tried to make amends.

Besides, I'm playing Cthulhu. I'm supposed to be infinitely evil. :)

BTW2 -- if the above quote wasn't intended as a personal slight, then again, my apologies for miscommunication. "A percieved slight is much harder to remedy than a real one," or something like that.

Anyway, Ralph can attest to my willingness to negotiate, though I'm not as gung-ho for it as he is. I tend to bluster about a bit more, when I'm in a Cthulhu/Bavaria mood. :)

Wait, a thought just occured to me -- maybe this is an insidious plan of yours to try to get me to disclose my negotiations with the other players, in an attempt to vainly "prove" my diplomatic savvy. I say, HA! You gotta get up PRETTY EARLY to pull a fast on on ol' Tentacle Nose, yep.

Your momma wears combat boots.

And if I win on this turn, I'd be very surprised. I have no idea where the hell my Goal has been hiding.

???: In a lost mesage, Don Fnordlioni wrote:

Oh, one more thing --

Unless you have an alternate method of defending Texas, I wouldn't spend their token either, to mess this up. The other Bavarians could rip them away pretty easily, if you have no token, with the Congressional Wives.

Wives (Power 4, +10 bonus, +4 alignment)=18 + Rival Bonus (+5) + Bavaria token (10) = 33 Power, Privileged.

And no, I haven't been in communication with him about this.

Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:47:59 +1000 (EET): Glen responded to Don Fnordlioni's message:

After all that explanation that I had no intention of interfering, and you still threaten. You really do want me to interfere.

You are one strange boy.

Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:33:15 +1000 (EET): In an outside-the-game message to Don Fnordlioni, Glen added a postscript:

PS Just in case you're getting confused about why I'm being chatty here, and apparently annoyed within the game, it's straightforward: Bavaria-Glen is frustrated with Cthulhu-Don (although the "outside the game" Glen can see it is almost all due to a communications problem).

Glen Barnett has no problems whatever with Tod A. Beardsley, who is, as far as he can tell, basically a nice guy who plays INWO to win. I have no problem with that. Really. It isn't personal.

Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:42:29 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

Ah, good.
I wasn't gonna say anything, but I figured I should at least acknowledge it. The feeling's mutual, at any rate.

12:27 PM 3/8/97 +1000: In a lost message, Glen wrote to Jason:

To tell you the truth I've been trying to convince Don F. to give me Soulburner or something in exchange for not telling the rest of you that I know he's about to win with Up Against the Wall...

Ralph thought it was very funny.

He didn't go for it, though.

He's been threatening me with all sorts of things (the DE exposure above was to show me that if I interfere in his attempt on Saddam, he'll nuke the OMCL's). I wish I had my Secrets.

???: In a lost message, Jason replied to Glen's message:

Secrets would be nice..but if we can hold him off this turn..and you guys support me..I can stop him Cold..

We kind of figured that he was Up against the wall..especially after james pointed it out (I had missed it).

wish I had draw my japan so I could have Counter-Rev'd it..oh could try S&L to see if you can get another counter card if you have one..such as hoax...

Just hold him off until my turn..then with a little help..I should be able to slow him down a bit.(cross fingers)

Hopefully he rolls 11 or 12...then he'll die..he'll get the kill...but it'll knock him down by another group.

we should be able to stop him..but James..I dunno..he's Awfully close and I are like WAY out of it.

Sat, 8 Mar 1997 16:16:06 +1000 (EET): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Oh, I can hold him off - but I don't think he is actually going to win this turn. However, if someone can take a look at his plot hand, and/or the top of his plot deck, that'd be nice.

I don't know that he has it either. I was basing it on James' pointing it out. The point is that Don F. doesn't know that we all know, so it was a chance to milk him. It just didn't work. I had not realised that he had taken me for an implacable enemy due to an earlier misunderstanding - and so the way my offer was put was wrong.

I did try it days ago, but I've heard nothing. Ralph must be busy with something (or away, or ill, or whatever). Don't worry, I thought of that.

Murphy's would help.

You're a lot closer than me.

Yes, James is close. We have to be careful not to waste time stopping Don F. if he isn't going to win this turn. Either that or leave it to James to put something in.

I'll ask Ralph about plot hands.

Don Fnordlioni plays Sniper on Saddam Hussein

Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:19:22 -0800: Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni in response to Don Fnordlioni's Sniper on Saddam Hussein:

I'm out of it guys...the last stop drained me..

Unless someone can stop him here..we're done if he's got UATW=A0in his hand..and with as hard as he's's either in his hand..or he's pretty sure it's close.

Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:23:35 -0600 (CST): Thany responded to Jason's message, sending his reply to everyone but Don Fnordlioni:

I've got him...

James Eddleman's Turn 4

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Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:49 -0500 (EST): James wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:

Well, I don't see a good way to attack The Servants, but am willing to aid an attack to destroy later on. Unless somebody has a better idea.

The way I see it, with UAtW he'll need one or two (depending if OMCL survives.)

Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:03:17 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni, in response to James' message:

Ditto for me.

He exposed that Deasil Engine for a reason... give you one guess what for.

Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:29:59 -0800: Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni, in response to Glen's message:

I've got Servants...just let it get to me..:)

help would be appreciated when I go for it.

Thany's Turn 4

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Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:46:47 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone but Thany:

Bavarian Illuminati (*) Power 10/10
Vatican City (*) Power 6/4
A.M.A. (*) Power 5
Congressional Wives (*) Power 4
OPEC ( ) Printed Power 4, Power 6
Fraternal Orders (*) Power 5
Pentagon (*) Power 12, linked to Fundie Money

I count 48, and any number of plots can supply those last 2 points.

Any ideas on thwarting? My plots are pretty pathetic here.

Or am I the only one not sharing in the victory attempt, here? smirk.

The rival Bavarian's OMCLs can take away 3 points from the Pentagon. Or, if someone can figure out how to make the rival Bavarians win, too.... they need 17 points of power. Too bad one can't give groups when it's not the giver or the receipient's turn.

Fri, 04 Apr 1997 15:34:29 -0800: Jason wrote to everyone but Thany in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I'm broke..I used up all mine slowing you down from your win..sorry... and I'm no-where NEAR sharing with me wouldn't do much good.

Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:54:01 +1000 (EET): Glen wrote to everyone but Thany in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Unlikely, with 2 Bavarias, unless one of us was unmasking.

Anyway, perhaps we had better see what is supplying the extra power for the win (and how much) before stopping him...

Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:59:22 -0500 (EST): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Jason's message:

Which would have been wise if I could have actually won last turn. Unfortunately, your efforts were for naught. :)

A yellow NWO would do us a world of good. Where's your world war III? (All those Nations, I'd expect to see it pop up soon). Even a Red NWO would help tame the Pentagon.

The Pentagon atttacks to control Newt Gingrich

Sun, 6 Apr 1997 12:29:35 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason:

What if Don and Thany are going for joint victory?

They'd be mad not to. Don just needs one more kill.

Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:22:17 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

If you haven't already, would you please put something into the attack (hopefully in opposition to it)? I'd like the game to go on a bit longer. I hesitate to do it myself, because obviously he'll want to take me out if this attack fails - he has good 'to control' bonuses against Texas and the Local Police, and if he manages to get them and take or kill Brazil, he'll get all my resources as well.

So my tokens need to be held back until he has fewer himself.

A blue NWO would probably help a lot, too (since the roll would drop to 6).

[You do realise he's about to win, right?]

Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:03:08 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James, Cc'ing Jason, in response to James' interference with the Libertarians:

Thanks, that'll do nicely.

Now the ball's in his court:
- does he take the 4?
- does he put more tokens in?
- does he try a different attack?

I predict he'll take the roll at 4 and then try a privileged attack with something else.

Could we stop that? I doubt it.

Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:08:49 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing James:

I think you're right...this bites..and I have NOTHING to stop these two...

Glen plays Giant Kudzu on Vatican

Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:39:07 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason:

With the roll at an 8 we might still have a chance; he'll have to spend to defend it, and so even a privileged attack might not quite succeed after this. Still, it'd be nice if someone had a AWHFY or some privilege-breaker handy. Not that I expect that anyone will.

Any suggestions about what else we can do?

Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:40:11 +1000 (E ): Seconds later, Glen wrote to James and Jason:

Anyone got another Kudzu?

Should we ask Don F. for a disaster?

Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:57:03 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen and James in response to Glen's message:

Wish I had something..anything that would help..but I tapped myself out stopping Don..

Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:16:53 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason:

I find myself in a difficult quandary.

Even if Don F. isn't in league with Thany (which I strongly suspect he is), if we could weaken Thany enough to stop him, Don F. could just bang down a Disaster on the Vatican and take victory.

I don't think I'll be able to do anything more, though, so it may be a moot point.

Don F.'s complete lack of concern for Thany's impending victory indicates to me that he is sure he can win whether or not Thany succeeds.

Thany's next attack (a priv. attack vs Newt, from the Congressional Wives, with the aid of Bavaria) looks like it is going to be unstoppable. It'll be at 15 I think.

Without an Assassination or Disaster, I don't see how we can stop Thany, and even if we can, Don F. is going to step in and take the victory as far as I can see.

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:10:10 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing James:

Unfort..I have to agree...we just have to hang on and see what happens..I can't do anything at all...:(:(

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:10:57 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

IF we can stop then..I think I may have a possible joint victory for the two of us...I don't know if we can..but we sure can try..

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:04 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Glen and Jason, in response to Glen's message:

No, Thany can't win with Power and one of you can take care of Don. Just one group should do the trick.

Depending on the outcome of the Kudzu. Cong. Wives lose their token if Vatican becomes Devastated. The roll is presently at a 3 and I still have W.I.T.C.H. so a roll of 4 will do. 3 out of 12 is better than nothing.

If the roll is higher than 4 then he still needs to roll for the second attack. See W.I.T.C.H. above.

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:18:39 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlion wrote to Glen:

I have a passing interest in seeing this attack succeed -- but this might not be enough of an interest to actually do anything about it (I can see good reasons to keep the Vatican-Bavarians at least equally as powerful as you).

However, I'm offering, for sale, the use of the Weather Sats to help out your Kudzu -- I think a good monsoon is in order.

Any offers? Plots, levels of amnesty, help, whatever. I'm open to anything.

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:14:13 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason in response to James' message:

Oh, maybe I miscalculated, but I thought Newt would put him on just under 50 power, so all he'd need is the right NWO, or a power booster with a March on Washington. Probably I did miscalculate. I'll check again.

What, you mean destroy or steal one of his groups?

With Soulburner, I'd prefer it wasn't me - I'm too far behind already.

We may be able to do more. Stay tuned.

Good points.

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:21:37 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason again in another response to James' message:

How do you get this?? Here's his power structure:

   Bavarian Illuminati (*) Power 10/10
        1: Vatican City ( ) Power 6/4
                1: A.M.A. ( ) Power 5
                2: Congressional Wives (*) Power 4
        2: OPEC ( ) Printed Power 4, Power 6
                1: Fraternal Orders ( ) Power 5
        3: Pentagon ( ) Power 12, linked to Fundie Money

10+6+5+4+6+5+12 = 48. Adding Newt will pop him over 50.

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:35:30 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing James:

If the devastation succeeds, subtract 3 power, making 45 and that makes newt NOT able...also..if he's working with Don..he'd have to sacrifice Newt dropping his power again...

It all depends on the Die Rolls and W.I.T.C.H.

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:30:22 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's offer:

I should have thought the fact that taking Newt with his privileged attack (at 15, if I worked it out right) would take him past 50 power would be incentive enough.

     Bavarian Illuminati (*) Power 10/10
        1: Vatican City ( ) Power 6/4  
                1: A.M.A. ( ) Power 5 
                2: Congressional Wives (*) Power 4  
        2: OPEC ( ) Printed Power 4, Power 6       
                1: Fraternal Orders ( ) Power 5   
        3: Pentagon ( ) Power 12, linked to Fundie Money 

I make that 48 power so far.

I'm not averse to dealing, but your lack of concern over his impending victory makes me think you know you can stop him anyway, in which case you don't need a plot from me. Alternatively, I've missed something important, which is possible.

In any case I have drained my resources trying to stop him already - I have nothing left you could want, unless you have a Voodoo Economics in hand and want some extra discards :).

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:42:04 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message, Cc'ing James:

If? On a roll of 3?? So your argument as to why he _can't_ win is that there's a 1/12 chance of devastation?

There's something you're not telling me.

Huh? Why? What's to stop Don nuking, oh, say Texas, if they are in league (which I'm no longer sure of, since we have another explanation of why Don wasn't responding - but Don would be still be mad not to be working with if he has a disaster).

WITCH makes the 1/12 a 1/6. That's a bit less than a "can't" in my book.

I don't believe your confidence is based on what we have discussed here. You're holding out, big fella.

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:55:41 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing James:

I just believe in positive thinking and believing Cthulhu will make sure he loses..*grins*

All we can do is hope for the best...

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:56:41 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

And have the best options..maybe talk to James about getting NSA to look at your plots and see if using your Savings and Loan Scam may get us something to help us out...

Just a thought..didn't wanna broadcast it to everyone w/o suggesting it to you first.

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:01:03 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You mean the S&L Scam I used trying to stop Don earlier? That's where the Kudzu came from.

I don't think Ralph will let me use it twice, but it'd be handy.

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:11:28 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

DOH!..Missed ya using it.>Damn..*ponder*...only person who could really stand a chance is James over there with the AT's from all some plots and pray..

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:17:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message, Cc'ing James:

I've had an interesting offer from Don F. - he will use his Weather Satellite if I give him something he can use. I don't have anything I can give him that he can possibly want. If one of you have something useful, might you consider giving it to me to pass along to him (or maybe even pass it along yourselves?). But hang off just a tad first.

He might be convinced to do it for free. :)

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:20:54 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to an earlier message of Jason's suggesting a joint victory:

I'm all ears. I can't see how I'm going to win any other way. Failing that, maybe we can talk James into a three-way. (kinky!)

Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:46:23 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

We've got to survive until my turn..then it'll depend on my plot AND group a little help from you..I think I can knock down Don enough to give us enough pts to victory...but we'll see..

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:10:27 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Don Fnordlioni after his use of the Weather Satellite:

Well done, sir.

Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:53 -0500 (EST): James Eddleman replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing Jason:

Not if I can keep the card I have in play. It's a drastic measure, so I won't play it unless he declares victory.

Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:42:51 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James's message:

Save it (we'll need it, whatever it is, later). If we devastate the Vatican then it won't be needed this turn. WITCH may be important, though.

Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:26:21 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Thany after Thany's use of the Congressional Wives:


Unless he has a nifty plot card, or some extra help, that should pretty much spell the end of ol' Newty. He may still attempt to go for the win, but it's now much less certain. Kudzu has achieved her purpose.

Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:18:04 -0400 (EDT): After Glen rolled the dice, Don Fnordlioni wrote to James and Jason:

I don't suppose the Assassins want to power a Computer Virus on that Kudzu... I don't have a virus to give, and I doubt the Network does, but you never know.

Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:13 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni and Jason, in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Wouldn't mind a bit, if I had one.

Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:06:06 -0400 (EDT): After Thany played a Red Scare, Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany:

So, anyone want to disaster the Pentagon? Just for amusement's sake?

Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:52:40 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

A wrinkle-faced old Secret Master comes up to you on a street corner, a battered tin cup (with EitP logo) in hand, and says:

"Hey buddy, could you spare an old timer some Oregon Crud?"

If anyone has a disaster left, it's you, my friend. How many disasters do you think we're packing?

(Thany must have been pretty lucky with his draw. Dammit.)

Anyone have an Interesting Times they could go for?

Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:30:13 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Glen's message:

I've had very unlucky draws -- I have disaster-related cards, but no disasters handy.

If you have a Crop Circles and a (March on Washington or (Crop Circles and Suff. Advanced Technology)), I can go pick one. But other than that, I'm outta luck.

I'm betting Thany won't remember he can still attack Newt.

Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:14:34 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

It doesn't matter whether or not it's Newt he attacks. The best reason to play Red Scare (and give up all that Illuminati-token flexibility) is to make an attack. If not Newt, then why not something else? We're still screwed.

But I'll bet that he doesn't forget Newt.

Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:21:09 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany, in response to Glen's message:

Oh, I wouldn't throw in the towel quite yet.... If he declares victory now, it's still only the first declaration, which are traditionally torn down. I have tokens on groups, and I have my choice of two plots. I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't rip me apart when I'm naked, is all I ask.

Pentagon attacks to control Fred Birch Society

Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:31:31 -0400 (EDT): In response to Thany's attack on the Fred Birch Society, Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany:

How many plot does Thany have, now, Ralph, and does anyone want to get rid of them?

Ralph answered in a message to everyone except Thany that Thany had two Plots in his hand.

Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:57:56 -0400 (EDT): Don wrote to Glen and Jason:

Glen, I would feel more comfortable if you daw a Plot before I do -- I don't care to be totally naked when your turn rolls around, and you'll get tokens back before I do.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:42:59 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Thany, in response to Don Fnordlioni's first message:

I don't see why you say "Heck". It was obvious he was going to make another attack from the moment he reloaded Pentagon. Why risk it otherwise? If I had any plots left that would do anything to stop him, I'd have drawn before the Privileged attack. Anyone out there who has any disasters (or whatever) in their deck that could have sucked Pentagon's token and didn't try to get them should feel doubly ashamed if Thany wins this turn.

There is absolutely no point me drawing plots. I've had a look what I haven't drawn yet. Some nice defensive cards, basically. Nothing that will stop him... I've used all of those. I'm not a very "attack the other guy" kind of player, generally (I've played Cthulhu only twice, for example).

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:48:06 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Thany, in response to Don Fnordlioni's second message:

As I pointed out in the other message, I have nothing left in my deck that could possibly stop him. Nothing. I've used all I had in the last few turns. If he wins now, I can only be content that I did everything within my power to stop him.

Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:55:36 -0700: Jason wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Glen's message:

If you can do ANYTHING that may stop it Glen...I don't have anything in my hand that could do anything, and I do not have action tokens that would even let me draw more...

Best of luck.

Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:56:25 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:


I had it all calculated for us to win matter what I wouldn't have to do much at all..

Cross your fingers he fails the roll..

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:22:13 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to everyone except Thany in response to Glen's message:

It wasn't a surprised "heck." It was a dejected "heck." Like when you know you didn't pay your phone bill for three months, and then the phone suddenly stopped working.

You must not feel too strongly about it, since I didn't see any sort of call-to-arms from you when it could have made a difference. You gotta point these things out to us small-brained bullies -- the whole point of my deck was to take orders from other players -- at least, that's what the deck description I gave to Ralph said.

Fact is, I have about a billion disasters lurking in my deck -- okay, that figure is closer to four, all of which have chances to Devastate the Vatican and the Pentagon. Mostly, they're not very good chances without the Weather Sats, but hey. If someone made the Vatican Government, Corporate, or Coastal, it would help me.

Pulling a Disaster after the Red Scare would have been pointless, by the way -- he plays the RS, I pull a Disaster, he makes an attack -- I couldn't play the Disaster without being guilty of speed play, or at least a dice-off.

At any rate, a Yellow NWO would do the trick much less violently. I don't have any, but the Assassins have gotta have an End of the World in there somewhere.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:40:02 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Ralph, Cc'ing James:

It looks like I can draw a Plot during the attack -- so I'll look at the bottom plot first with the Mossad power, and I'll spend Mossad and the Robot Sea Monster's token to do it.


I'm going to ask the NSA to look at my top three plots, then I'm going to ask him nicely to tell me what they are, so I can better decide on the top or bottom card to draw -- I'm looking specifically for a Disaster (I have a Murphy's Law down in there, too --- but nobody has Illuminati tokens.)

And, my lovely Assassins, it would be really helpful to know what all the top three plots are, since, under very certain circumstances, I may be able to get at ones a fair bit deeper down. In fact, I might get 5 plots out, if things go well.

At any rate, it doesn't matter to me if the dice are rolled now or later. I can't do anything about that.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:57:20 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone but Thany, in response to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I pointed out what was going to happen.

So I have to tell you what to do without being told that's how you're going to work? The responsibility falls to the player with the least resources?

Absolutely not. Drawing cards is a free move.

He plays RS. You take a free move, and play a disaster.

Yes, actually there are a couple of other possibilities.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:08 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message about the N.S.A.:

You're sure you want the top three? I can look at the bottom as well. I could do both if I had a reload.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:22:43 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Yep -- I'll look at the bottom with Mossad, then make the best choice.

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:21:32 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni asked Ralph a rules question, Cc'ing James:

Is the NSA allowed to show me the plots they see? Or can they only tell me? If they can show me, I'd rather that.

Wed, 23 Apr 97 16:54:19 EDT: Ralph answered Don fnordlioni's question, Cc'ing James:

Hmm. Good question.

I don't see anything that would let them show you the plots--you want to try to convince me otherwise?

Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:29:46 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to Ralph's answer, Cc'ing James:

Not really -- the text on the Post Office has me pretty much convinced that's a special thing.

Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:07:18 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James about James' use of the N.S.A. to look at Don Fnordlioni's top three Plots:

Anything interesting?

It turns out I may have something useful after all. It just occurred to me I still have a yellow NWO (don't blab that around, though).

Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:54 -0500 (EST): James replied to Glen's question:


In hand, or deck?

Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:49 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Nuclear Accident. Right on top.

Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:04 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

I would really like to know what all three plots are. Specifically, if a Giant Kudzu is in there.

When I get a minute, I'll tell you all my big plans to maximize my plot draws.

At any rate, Ralph, I'll spend the Mossad and RSM tokens to draw a plot, and I'll check the bottom plot first before I decide.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:07 +1000 (E ); Glen replied to James' "In hand, or deck?" question: "Deck."

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:32:35 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason:

I have a plan for thwarting Bavaria. However, it involves destroying France.

Here's the proposed plan:

I will first give you Soulburner, then launch a Disaster which has an excellent chance of destroying France (who defends at an 8), but a weak chance of Devastating the Vatican or Pentagon (who defend at a 16 and 22). You can then Burn 2 cards off my plot deck, and give them back, and I'll draw two plots for the Destruction. With the next Disaster I draw, combined with yet another Disaster I know is on the bottom of my deck and a Combined Disaster I have in my hand, I will have a very good shot at Devastating the Pentagon -- which will not only stop the Vatican-Bavarians, but will make life difficult for the Texan-Bavarians if they are planning on scooping up the Pentagon on their turn (they have 10 or less without using any plots or Agents, privileged, using Texas).

In return for your permission to hit France, and the return of the two plots you burn out of me, you are free to keep the Soulburner, and I can promise not to interfere with any of your attacks on your next turn. I'd like to borrow the Soulburner if I'm attacked, and give it back, but that's up to you.

And, frankly, I think this is the best way I can see to stop both Bavarias from winning.

Let me know.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:40:20 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

I'm planning on drawing that Nuclear Accident, and hitting France with it after I give the Network my Soulburner, in order to maximize the number of plots of mine coming into at least someone's hand. (I put a lot of disasters in there).

The roll is a 9 or less to destroy -- can I count on WITCH bumping a 10 down? I have a Combined disasters in my hand, and I have a disaster at the bottom of my deck, but I'm hoping to improve my chances on the Pentagon -- I really want to at least Devastate the Pentagon in particular, even if the roll is better to destroy the Vatican, because the Texan-Bavarians have a 10 or less to control the Pentagon, and can take it Privileged.

If you'll tell me what the 2nd and 3rd plot is, it'd make my planning a lot easier. Please, :E (that's a Cthulhu smiley emoticon).

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:55:18 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni wrote to Thany:

First off, congratulations.
Secondly, how do you feel about sharing a victory?
I'm thinking of throwing a Disaster at France, and pulling some plots so I might be able to leap into a win, but I'd like to know if you would Secrets my attempt.

If I can't get you to promise not to Secrets my Disaster on France, I'll just attack the Vatican and hope for a Devastation (I have a pretty good roll to do so, and I'm sure WITCH will help). Oh, and I don't believe Secretsing an attack on you would do you much good -- I believe the others are willing to help thwart your attempt.

Anyway, let me know.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:05:17 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

No need for threats. I don't have a Secrets/Hoax to use and don't have a problem with a shared victory.
(But if I did, doesn't it seem more likely that I would have already used it on the Giant Kudzu?)

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:15:12 -0700: Jason wrote to James:

Fnordlioni just e-mailed me a possible way to stop Thany..

However..It involves giving him another destroyed group..I need to make sure this isn't going to give the victory in his own right.

You wouldn't happen to know if he has up against the wall in the top 2 plots...little bit risky for my taste but if we need to, we need to

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:20:50 -0700: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's proposal:

The only thing about the plan that bothers me is that this brings you A)one group closer to a win and B)if you have would win...

I do like the sound..and understand the necessity..but giving up the win from one to give it another..*ponder*.....

I need a show of faith that you are not going to declare victory on us so that I can HAVE another turn...

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:43 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

Not something I want to do either, but we'll find out what cards Thany has left. I.e. if they're cancelers.

No. UAtW is not in his top 3. From what he's said, it's not on the bottom either. He still may have it in hand though. Although, I suppose if he did have it, he would've already disastered France and been done with it. That realization makes me feel better. Do you think that makes sense?

Ralph: Which would come first; Soulburner or Cthulhu's plot draw. Soulburner says immediate, Cthulhu's special ability does not.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:53:17 -0700: Jason replied to James's message:

Agreed..if he had it..he would have already done so..ok..lets cross our fingers.

my Op:since soulburner says immediate..I would believe it goes first.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997: In a lost message, James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

The next two plots are not disasters.

Can you give Soulburner to the Network at this time?

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:54:15 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Okay. That means I'll let the Network burn them off me so I can dig deeper.

Sure can. Giving away a Resource is a Free Move.

And I can assure you, I'm not holding G:UAtW.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:54:21 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

ok Don..go ahead...lets give this a try and see what happens

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:09:04 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

I can't get to to double check the rules, but doesn't france also get the bonus for like allignments with Canada..and if so..they have a defense of 16 against destruction..(3+5+4+4)

Just a sidenote..

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:10:12 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Oh, I understand your concern. The Assassins have voiced a similar concern when I inquired about WITCH.

What do you propose? I can safely say I'm not holding a Goal:UAtW. Furthermore, you can keep the two plots you Burn out of me, as well as the Soulburner -- I'm now told the two coming plots are not Disasters, so it's not critical I get them back.

If I do draw the UAtW, I can promise not to declare victory until the end of your turn, and I won't interfere with any of your attacks on your next turn.

BTW -- I don't know what the 2nd a 3rd card is on the top of my deck. but the Assassins do.

Let me know -- if I get an agreement to this, I'll send the Soulburner over. And you can The + after donford isn't necessary.

Oh, one last thing -- I don't suppose you have a method of cancelling a Secrets? I don't know what's in the Bavarians' hand at the moment, so this may all be for naught anyway :E

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:13:06 -0400 (EDT): Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's "Let's give this a try" message

If you agree to my next message, I'll go ahead. And no, sharing alignments with a master only counts for control, not destroy.

Fri, 25 Apr 97 13:38:32 EDT: Ralph answered James' question, Cc'ing Jason:

According to Lynette's rulings, it would be 'order in which the cards were played' which would mean Cthulhu, then Soulburner, then Hitler's Brain, I guess.

But we play by Pittsburgh House Rules ( which simplify this by saying that Soulburner goes first.

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:45:15 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

*nods*..I knew I was missing something..but work tends to fry my brain..and right now Sprintnet is being a Pain in the #$)(*$@#)* so work's kinda being an odd fish..

Just to confirm: deal is

I get Soulburner
You destroy France
I give you back the 2 plots (after I look at them of course)
you draw you 2 plot bonus for destruction of group, one from the bottom.
You do a combined disaster attack on the Pentagon, hoping to devastate it.
I keep Soulburner, and you do not interfere with any of my attacks during my next round

That about right?

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:02:26 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Unfort.I do not have a way to cancel secrets in my hands

I do agree to this deal Ralph..lets see if we can stop him..:)

Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:06 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Yeah, it finally dawned on me that if you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Nuclear Accident on France

Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:46:52 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I can cash in for a plot - I have a yellow NWO I can try to get. It'll make it impossible for me to aid you later though.

Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:02:04 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

It is ok..I understand. I should be ok.

Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:20:42 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Jason in response to the destruction of France:

At this point Don has achieved Up Against the Wall.

Better hope one of them wasn't his Goal! Shared Victory would suit him pretty well.

Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:20:21 +1000 (E ): After Jason drew Plots from Don Fnordlioni's deck with Soulburner, Glen wrote to Jason:

Did you get anything worthwhile?

Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:17:48 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's question:

*Big grin*..oh yeah...a pair of VERY nice anyone is gonna win this turn..:)

Giant Kudzu on Pentagon

Thu, 01 May 1997 15:33:09 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni about the Giant Kudzu on the Pentagon:

now you are doing a combined disaster on this right? make sure it slows him down sufficiently?

Fri, 02 May 1997 00:13:17 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Well, believe me, I would have liked to get the kill. But it looks like a devastation will have to do for now. WITCH can bump that up to a 4 or less, but I doubt anyone really wants me to get the kill credit.

I'm pretty confident -- since you're holding my Secrets, you can cancel either of his plots, if they're disaster fucker uppers.

It looks like all I have to do is roll a non-12 (since WITCH will bump an 11 down to a 10), and the game goes on. Besides, bringing relief to the Pentagon is a major pain -- even if Texas-Bavaria scoops it up, it'll take a good chunk of tokens to get it to count for goals.

Thu, 1 May 1997 23:36:56 -0500 (CDT): Thany wrote to Don Fnordlioni about the Giant Kudzu on the Pentagon:

Hey! What'd I do?
(It's either that I declared victory or I existed, methinks, but I'd like to hear it from you.)

Fri, 02 May 1997 01:12:54 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Thany's question:

Well, I didn't manage to hit a victory condition out of nuking France, so it's become necessary to thwart you at least for a turn or so.

I'm also not confident you'd have won even if I ignored you, so I have to hamstring the Pentagon in order to keep it out of the hands of Texas.

I'm just hoping those two plots aren't defensive in nature. The Kudzu is pretty crummy for thwarting victories, since it's not instant.

Fri, 02 May 1997 09:10:21 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

*ponder*..yeah..I suppose..all right..we'll let it slide..THIS time..*grins and is kidding*

Good luck with the dice..hope you have better luck then ya did in the first game..

Sat, 03 May 1997 01:28:37 -0400: After the Devastation of the Pentagon, Don Fnordlioni wrote to James Eddleman:

I think I need your help in pulling a fast one on the Network.

We both know he's holding (my) Secrets. I'd like to get him to play it on a feigned attack, but he may need some convincing -- specifically a threat of WITCH helping me out, Or Else.

Here's my idea. I'm about to play an Annual Convention on the Congressional Wives. If successful, it'll count for my goals, and I'll get two more plots. Obviously, this is bad for everyone else.

However, it's plausible that you might help me out. The attack is only up to a 4 - but WITCH can pop that up to a 10. And, if it's successful, I would give you the Robot Sea Monsters when I have a token to transfer them, which count double for you (that, and an ATO of a Secret group would give you 12 groups).

Now. I'm not actually asking you to help me. I'm just telling you what would happen in WITCH decided to aid. If the Network was aware of this most fiendish plot, he may play the Secrets -- it'll get rid of it, and his two plots. This is a good thing for everyone but him.

Why is it important that I get the Secrets out of him? Well, I've made a promise not to bother him on his next turn, in exchange for his compliance in the France plot-sucking ploy. I'd rather not have to live up to that promise, so I've saved the CIA token to launch a Senate Investigating Committee on him. This will force him to
a) decline from declaring victory, and
b) save his tokens and plots to thwart the Texas-Bavarians, should they make a bid for victory on their turn (The bavarians are now very good at scooping up violent and conservative government groups, right now, and that's worrisome).

If he holds on to the Secrets, he'll just cancel my most laudable and civic-minded goal of making him skip his turn -- he's already had an extra one anyway, thanks to the Seize the Time.

Either way, I'm still ACing the Wives (Ralph, feel free to play it). I'd just like your help in making this ruse a little more viable.

Annual Convention on the Congressional Wives

Mon, 05 May 1997 08:35 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Tempting offer...

The Network declare victory? He's at 6 groups right now. After his ATO, he'd still need at least three groups to do something silly like that.

Then why not Senate Investigate the Texas-Bavarians?

Mon, 05 May 1997 14:30:31 -0400: Don Fnordlioni responded to James's message:

Which I think is quite plausible, what with Population Reduction. It's very easy for him to bridge that gap, imo. Besides, he can Counter-Revolution Japan back, and then he'd only need two.

I will, if the game gets that far.

Tue, 6 May 1997 15:27:20 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

It looks like you'll be able to do whatever it was you had in mind now.

Tue, 06 May 1997 02:27:18 -0400: After the successful die roll for the Annual Convention, Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

So. What would you like to stay off of this particular die roll?

I wasn't expecting to make it, so this is pretty much just a perk. But I'd kind of like to keep it.

How does a Robot Sea Monsters on my next turn sound? I'd be happy to hand them over as soon as it's possible to do so.

I'd give them to you now, if I could, but it's neither of our turns.

Tue, 06 May 1997 17:09 -0500 (EST): After the successful die roll for the Annual Convention, James wrote to Jason:

I'm willing to change this with W.I.T.C.H. for that Secrets you (might) be holding.

Tue, 06 May 1997 15:18:13 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

I unfort want to keep this for possible later usage....He hasn't declared a victory..and that puts Thany out of reach for most plot cards...the only victory condition he has ousted so far is his UATW..and unless he JUST drew it..he doesn't have it.

Now if you want to slow down Fnordlioni..thats what I am intending..You see..The Mossad is a very powerful card within the network (most people don't know how many computers they use to track down those ideas) and I would like to have agents are prepared to take them over upon my turn, and assistance would be appreciated (one less Violent group in his hold).

Tue, 06 May 1997 17:34 -0500 (EST): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Provided you don't win with the Plots you draw first, I expect.

I find it hard to believe you'd be willing to do this unless you have alterior motives. (Regarding your last message about my only needing one other group to win if I get Robot Sea Monsters.) Or are you suggesting a shared victory?

Tue, 06 May 1997 08:52:29 -0700: James replied to Glen's "you'll be able to do whatever..." message:

Yeah..I've got my stuff ready to go..but now that Thany has a few extra plots..makes me a touch on the nervous side +..thats another government group..even if I Counter-reved Japan back..he still has enough Gov groups ..oh well..we'll see what happens

I suspect that Jason meant 'Don Fnordlioni' instead of 'Thany'.

Wed, 07 May 1997 14:38 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

There will be no interference from W.I.T.C.H.

Wed, 07 May 1997 16:04:36 -0700: After Don Fnordlioni played Good Polls, Jason wrote to James:

Did you by chance warn him of my plans?..If so..this does not hold well for any of us, for his ATO is enough to win..

if not, we are in trouble..MASSIVELY

Wed, 07 May 1997 19:04:49 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Welp, I didn't, and I wouldn't have anyway.

Well, my motive for keeping the kill is pretty obvious. I like to kill things, and I like the plots.

Hey, I'll take what I can get.

Anyway, I'm of the belief that the Network and the Bavarians must be aggressively thwarted. I'll do what I can, but it's not much, aside from Investigating Bavaria.

Wed, 07 May 1997 16:11:32 -0700: Jason wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni:

I think we're all assistance in slowing down thany only set don up for an easy win...I can't power the card that I got from him to slow him down, and the only thing he needs is an ATO to win the game, giving him plenty of defensive tokens against off-the-wall attacks.

I had planned to slow him down, but the good polls just makes it too hard to break through his defenses.

if someone can deal with would be greatly appreciated.

Thu, 8 May 1997 14:09:39 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to everyone except Don Fnordlioni in response to Jason's message:

If he draws "Up against the Wall", he doesn't even need the ATO!

If you'd asked me before that whole episode between you and Don, I'd have pointed out it'd pretty much guarantee a win for him. We know he's got UAtW there, so between that and good defensive cards, his chances of winning were pretty good.

James has plenty of tokens left, so he looks your best chance of stopping Don, assuming it can be done.

I doubt it.

Thu, 08 May 1997 09:28 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

No, I mentioned nothing.

You can still cancel the Good Polls. Although I can see why you'd want someone else to do it. Or, are you just concerned about losing plots? If so, I'll happily play the Secrets.

Thu, 08 May 1997 09:03:56 -0700: Jason replied to James's message:

There are no Illuminati AT's left..unless I misread the card.didn't it require an Illuminati Action AND discards?

Thu, 08 May 1997 09:06:26 -0700: Minutes later, Jason wrote to James:

I misread the card..went and caught myself..but you're right..I would rather not lose plots..if you will play it on his G.P's...I'll let you use it.

Thu, 08 May 1997 13:16 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

Don't see many SMWNMTK, eh? I would say wait for the others to respond to the latest 'call to arms' message, but I have a feeling they will be unable to do anything. So pass that baby over and say goodbye to Good Polls!

Thu, 08 May 1997 10:26:22 -0700: Jason replied to James's message:

*grins*..between me and the only other local to play it..we owned a whole 0 of them until I bartered for one and then got one out of a starter pack I picked up for like 3 bucks..:)...*grins*...ok..if thany can't do anything, then I'll pass the Secrets on to you.

Thu, 08 May 1997 16:06:05 -0700: Jason wrote to Thany, with the subject "Can you stop the good polls?":

subject says it all?

Thu, 8 May 1997 19:22:13 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Jason's "Can you stop the Good Polls?" message:

Yes it does, and no I can't.

Thu, 08 May 1997 17:24:01 -0700: Jason wrote to James:

Ok James..If you've got the plots to can have the secrets

If you want it for immediate play against good polls as well..:)

Fri, 09 May 1997 08:08 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

Alright, lets get this rolling Ralph. I'll take the passed SMWNMTK and use it to cancel the Good Polls, discarding my top 2 plots.

Mon, 12 May 1997 09:36 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni after the playing of the Secrets Man Was Not Meant to Know:

Now you can Investigate either with impunity. My vote is for the Texas-Bavarians as they would have an esay time taking things from the Vatican Bavarians not to mention the PMM or OMCL.

Jason Bostick's Turn 4

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Thu, 15 May 1997 10:26:03 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni after the Senate Investigating Committee:

*growl* wonder you said you wouldn't attack me during my turn...I don't even get an ATO for this and I'm gonna lose plots (or just replace them in my deck..but still)...

I shall have my revenge (not likely to get another turn now..someone's gonna win here real quick).

Thu, 15 May 1997 10:27:11 -0700: Jason wrote to James and Glen:


I had him stopped..I had the cards and the numbers there ANY chance you guys have something to stop the SIC..I know Thany doesn't...I would be MOST grateful...

Glen Barnett's Turn 4

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Fri, 16 May 1997 10:51:37 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Glen..if you would like it..and to help in your victory (if you wish..we were the underdogs all game)...I've got a Emergency powers you can have...obviously I can't use it..:)

Sat, 17 May 1997 11:23:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's offer:

Thanks for the offer. I may be able to use it, but I won't be winning this turn, I'm quite sure. I'll let you know - but I'll understand if you change your mind later; circumstances may change.

Mon, 19 May 1997 16:58:33 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

There is a very tiny chance I'll be able to make use of your Emergency Powers, if the offer is still going.

I've just realised a very, very remote possibility of pulling something off...

Mon, 19 May 1997 17:16:54 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

I've had some thoughts and realised I can probably go ahead and take my ATO and place tokens, because it probably won't matter too much; there's still things to offer you if need be.

I keep looking for a way to set up a joint victory with you, but I don't think there's one there this turn.

Mon, 19 May 1997 10:06:29 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's first message:

Ya see Glen..I am in a position to set up your win..Obviously the rounds are not going to get back to me...and I can set you up for a solid attempt at winning.

Get back to me this afternoon (your morning)..:)

Mon, 19 May 1997 10:11:11 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's second message:

Ralph..I still need to get rid of plot. Please give E.P.s to Glen

Mon, 19 May 1997 14:55 -0500 (EST): James replied to a message of Glen's:

Actually, you could take over the Pentagon fairly easily. Texas has three common alignments since Thany put Fundie Money on it and not to mention the +5 on your nemesis. I make it 31 vs 16 out of Texas alone.

Not from a privileged attack, but from winning, yes, I can. Two ways, in fact. Not to mention all the tokens The Network has to buy plots with which to stop you.


I would consider going after Don's BATF, privileged of course. Texas alone is at a ten. He has no tokens (unlike the web page shows, hint Ralph) to defend. I don't know what plots he has. Without your ATO or OMCL, those two groups will put you over 50 with the Clipper Chip. I'm not sure if you can decline to declare victory (I've done so in my games,) but we could stop you from winning, and you're the last chance to stop Don from winning his next turn.
And in return, if I can reach victory my turn, I will not use what I have at my disposal to stop you.

Mon, 19 May 97 16:15:52 EDT: Ralph responded to a rules question in James's message:

You can decline to declare victory in this game, at least. I don't think it's ever been confirmed legal, but I can point to instances of it happening in the Daily Illuminator archives.

Let me try to give a careful formulation of the relationship between declaring victory and winning, as if I were writing rules:

"To win, you must declare victory at the end of some player's turn, and have all players acknowledge that they cannot thwart you. You are never obligated to declare victory, but you cannot win without doing so.."

Tue, 20 May 1997 12:02:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:

Actually, I had forgotten my priv attack when I first mailed you :)

But I still don't see how you have me winning.

Hmm. maybe you add differently from me, but that 14 + my 29 does not make 50 the way I count. More like 43...

With the group I have in hand, I can get close, but that won't make 50.

And he'll toast my OMCLs (that's what the Deasil Engine was exposed for) if I touch him. And I'll wear any Disasters he's got left.

Don't like it very much, but I'm prepared to discuss it.

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe giving you a group (perhaps Fred Birch assuming an attack on Pentagon), in the circumstance where WITCH could affect the result and didn't act against me, or did act to help me.

Anyway, if you have things to stop me winning, won't they also stop Don F.?

Tue, 20 May 1997 15:32:42 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

I may just go along with your suggestion, actually. I can see some advantages, even though it will likely cost me dearly...

Tue, 20 May 1997 16:15:52 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Nope, sorry, looks like I have to keep my OMCL's.

Tue, 20 May 1997 08:42:10 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

It's ok..Regardless..someone is gonna win this turn..I don't think we can stop Don from nailing us on his turn...and I hate seeing Cthulu win..*grins*...and even if we don't, James will, and then, if we get lucky enough to get past him, Thany only needs an ATO and a priv attack to win on his turn..the turn will never get back to you and I. I can give you one of my agents which will pretty much set you up for the win (or should bring you VERY close)...BATF+Suddam=14 pts of Power to your structure.


Tue, 20 May 1997 13:40 -0500 (EST): James replied to Glen's message (and another message):

10 for Bavaria
14 for Texas
5 for Brazil
4 for Local Police
33 total
Take over BATF(9) + Saddam(5) = 14 + 4 for your Clipper Chip = 18 18 + 33 = 51

Forgetting LPDs and the effect of Clipper Chip?

Don't need 'em for victory conditions. Unless the current NWOs change.

That's where the risk comes in. But, if he did have any Disasters in hand, I don't think the Pentagon would still be around.

I can handle Power wins, not Goal cards/destroyed groups.

From '[Game] On Second Thought'

Just remember privilege... you don't want Jason being bribed to interfere. Or me for that matter. (It would cost him dearly to do so, but you never know what he may offer.)

5/20/97 6:29 PM +1000: Glen replied to James's message:

With what's happened in the game, I doubt Don F could offer him enough, unless he was to give away most of his power structure to Jason on his turn; but I don't think Jason would trust him to go through with it.

No, the only reason I'm going to make it privileged is to stop Don from convincing Thany to do something. He's a little unpredictable.

Wed, 21 May 1997 08:36:03 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

I have already decided to attack BATF.

If you can give me an Agent for it, so much the better!

Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:36 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Ralph..give Glen my BATF for his of luck this for both of us..the underdogs!..:)

Wed, 21 May 1997 08:49:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:

D'Oh! Yes, that's exactly what I did. It's not a good week.

Anyway, if WITCH can make a diff. to the outcome of the roll, I may be able to offer you something to help...

Wed, 21 May 1997 08:56:45 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:


Actually, I will get to 50 power this turn (James realised it before I did). He apparently has NWO's to stop that.

However, what he doesn't realise is that I can actually get over 60 power when I add it all up...

and depending on which NWO(s) he has, I may still win (bigger business, for example, should just leave me with a win).

If Don F. doesn't toast OMCL's (which of course he will), I'll be in the mid-60's.

If I had the right NWO's or some cancels left, I'd be set.

Wed, 21 May 1997 09:00:20 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

If I don't declare victory this turn, what's to stop you just playing your NWO (or possibly 2?) at the end of your turn anyway?

I can't see that there's any reason whatever for you to allow me a joint victory; you don't take any risks by not doing so.

Tue, 20 May 1997 16:04:11 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Well...I knew you'd win this if I didn't cause I had the setups to help you pull it off...If I need to help you with the win..I may spend my AT's to pull plots and maybe get something to help ya out..we'll cross that bridge when it gets a bit closer...

I've been watching everyone's Power Structures and knew if I couldn't win..I could pretty much determine who I wanted to win...and since you and I have been playing fair all game..I figured I'd give it to you.

Good Luck

Wed, 21 May 1997 20:52:48 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Thanks for the Agents card.

Actually, it is starting to look like I may be able to actually win this even if James has two NWO's in hand. I think I can get past 70 power this turn :)

Of course, Don and James are going to bring that down some...

Every time I come up with a strategy, I find a better one.

I'm tossing up the possibilities involving 4 different approaches to my turn.

Wed, 21 May 1997 21:50:38 +1000 (E ): An hour later, Glen wrote to Jason:

OK, I've just realised that to get past 70 (which pretty much assures me of the win even if I lose the OMCL's and the red and yellow NWO's) I would need about 9 points of power from you (in an attack that any of your groups could participate in).

Of course, there is no reason at all for you to do this.

Anyway, there's a couple of things I can offer: if I get your help, but I don't win the game, I'll give you two groups as soon as it is feasible.

If the OMCL's survive, they're yours.

I could probably give you Hawaii during my turn; if I take it over - which I probably will, I can spend its token to give it to you, but I'd like to check out the situation mid turn first.

Failing that, I can get to about 67 without any of your tokens, which gives me the win if I only lose two of (OMCL's/Gun Control/Law&Order). I don't mind those odds at all. I'm perfectly happy with that if you prefer it.

Anyway, let me know what you think, because it affects what I do.

[I can cope with Disasters easily, but those NWO's are kind of harder for me to keep. Oh for a Secrets!]

Wed, 21 May 1997 09:08:13 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

The problem is: Even if you DON'T win...Don will be really close on his turn (even with the loss of two groups) or James, or the turn won't even get back to me...

I'd be more then happy to help you win..we've been underdogging this game far to long..:)

Texas attacks to control the C.I.A.

Fri, 23 May 1997 13:00:35 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's public comment:

Actually, I wanted to attack the Pentagon. I haven't tried to convince anyone that attacking you was a good idea. I took some convincing, actually. Your opponents seem very keen indeed for you to lose a group or two. Who am I to say no?

If I can trust you to be discreet with the information, I could tell you who talked me into it.

Nothing personal in this attack, mind you - I was just convinced of the benefits of attaking you compared with taking the Pentagon.

Fri, 23 May 1997 00:42:21 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

Like I said, I was expecting an attack. I've been whining about it for a week to Ralph. Heh.

If only to satisfy my curiosity. My guess is the Network, since he's been showering you with cards, though the Assassins wouldn't surprise me.

Well, sure, the CIA is tastier than the Pentagon, since it's undevastated. But it'll be a fight to actually reel them in -- You probably had a much better chance on the Pentagon, given your rival bonus, the like alignments, and the other Bavaria's lack of defenses.

I suspect the other(s) convinced you to attack me is precisely because I'm a harder target, and it'll cost you more tokens to grab my stuff. Not to mention the unfortunate loss of the OMCLs.

But, that's all water under the bridge.

Fri, 23 May 1997 14:46:10 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I'm not surprised you'd guess the Network first, but you'd be wrong.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the Assassins would deny it.

Fri, 23 May 1997 14:51:06 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

In the next few events, you may be offered some inducements to oppose my attacks. It may be that these inducements will be too good for you to pass up (though I doubt it).

Anyway, if it happens, all I ask is that you tell me what you're going to do - because if that happens, I'm going to have to abandon my push for victory, and I'd like to keep enough in defense to survive.

Note that I'm not sending this in the expectation that you'll change your mind - just that if it comes, I will need to be told what you're doing as early as possible.

Fri, 23 May 1997 15:15:58 +1000 (E ): After Don Fnordlioni played Martial Law, Glen wrote to Jason:

Wasn't really expecting the +10.

This might cause me to have to rely on you more heavily than I'd hoped to.

I hope it's still OK.

Fri, 23 May 1997 01:26:57 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Glen:

<JEDI> These aren't the spooks you're looking for. </JEDI>

Fri, 23 May 1997 01:37:51 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

Say, I'd appreciate seeing that End of the World sometime soon... That'd knock Texas down by quite a bit (as well as most of my groups, but hey).

Fri, 23 May 1997 15:40:10 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Hmm; maybe I can save us both some trouble.

If you can convince me I can't succeed, I may abandon the attack altogether.

Fri, 23 May 1997 08:59:02 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*smiles*..Like I said b4..I'm not likely to win unless they offer me like a promised nother turn...not much they could do to entice help currently remains yours.

Fri, 23 May 1997 12:16:06 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

Well, if you want to risk the chance of my holding, say, a Terrorist Nuke to fend off your Illuminati token, I can't stop you -- in fact, it'd be a pretty even trade, in my mind -- a plot for your power 10 token you wouldn't be able to use to draw a plot on my turn, or interfere with.

Alternatively, you could just go after an easier target, like a group out of hand. I'd happily keep my plots out of that.

Move along.

Sat, 24 May 1997 09:35:38 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

So are you telling me you have a Terrorist Nuke or just that you might have one?

The possibility I was already aware of; that will hardly change my intentions. If you can show me a +10 (or expose it at your own choice - though I have nothing that could affect it either way), I may look at other things to do and just abandon this attack.

There are no more groups in my group hand.

Fri, 23 May 1997 19:48:59 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

a) if I show you a +10, you "may look at other things." That's not very concrete.
b) Besides, that would be telling. Like I said, luring a token off the Illuminati is a reward in and of itself.

The fact remains, I was expecting an attack remarkably like this.

09:49 AM 5/24/97 +1000: Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

OK, if you show me a +10 I'll be very likely to turn my attention away from CIA.

Fri, 23 May 1997 20:17:04 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

Tell you what -- you take the CIA, and I'll take it right back on my turn -- heck, it's just as good to me dead or alive -- and I'll see about slamming Hawaii to boot. That way, you'll have spent your turn making no headway, and I'll have at least a worthwhile ATO under my belt.

Alternatively, you can forget about it, and I'll leave you alone on my turn.

Tue, 27 May 1997 11:48:41 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's public 'Texas-Bavaria's at Power 51' message:

*shrugs*..I can't really do anything..if you hadn't stopped me from moving..maybe...:)...

I was given my choice of people to help win..I could help you..I could help glen..I could have helped James..or I could help Thany.....but I could only help and hinder one set...the turn would never make it back around to me..therefor I chose who I wanted to see win..I know where my help is going to be..I know who I want to win since it will not be me (less some unforseen act of Eris sets it so none of you win..unlikely as all James needs is an ATO to do it)

Wed, 28 May 1997 09:00:54 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I could use your help now, please.

Once the attack is officially announced, could I have, say 9 power added to the attack, to start?

That will almost do it, and might be amusing to see if they'll try to do anything about it. I'd like that to happen, because it reduces the number of cards they can draw to stop me.

Tue, 27 May 1997 16:08:18 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Heh..sure..if your attacking a Gov assistance is easy..:)...actually..I've quite the spread of alligns over here...I'm sure I can get you 9 pts of power..:)

P.S..if you can..when you use that agents card, make it sound like a net collaboration..will look good in the history files..*cackle*

Wed, 28 May 1997 09:06:47 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

It's BATF, of course. And Don F is worried about 51 Power!

Damn. I already sent the description off. That would have been good.

It might take Ralph a while to send it on, though.

Ralph gave Glen time to rewrite the description.

Tue, 27 May 1997 16:14:21 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Heheheheh...Tis true..:)..but watch James..he isn't gonna let this go lightly..:)

Wed, 28 May 1997 12:10:07 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Of course not, but what can he do?

He can spend tokens, of course, but you have more power in tokens than he does - and spending those will prevent him from drawing more cards.

I can, if I've worked it out right, certainly survive the loss of either the red or yellow NWO. I don't think I can survive both; I must have made a mistake before - I may have been relying on having that Illuminati action free.

If they play a disaster, and pick the wrong group to attack, there's a chance I may end up with another 6 points of power :). But I doubt it'll come to that. It would make me laugh if it happened, though. A lot. Even more than when Don F. took the bait and toasted the OMCL's, thus leaving me free to play the Big Prawn.

They'll have to be surprisingly resourceful to stop us now.

Tue, 27 May 1997 19:20:56 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

By my calcs..if everyone was honest..Don only has 1 disaster left..and it's not in his hand....James doesn't have any cancelers and no disasters..Thany MAY have a disaster..but he'd have played it by now.

and yes..I do have alot of see...don't tell ANYONE else this..I was planning on going Bavarian and using my priv to take the BATF..that would have given me the power I needed to win..:)...but I don't have the extra support like you did for covering the NWO's..but oh was a nice thought

Wed, 28 May 1997 12:34:55 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Very, very neat. It's a pity you didn't get to try it. It would have been interesting to see.

Yes, the extra support is kind of crucial for me ... I did have a lot of power to make up, since I was in the low 30's at the start of the turn. This may be in part why I wasn't seen as a major threat: I was weak enough that I'd only just be able to make it to 50, and Jason knew he could stop that.

Brazil Attacks B.A.T.F.

Wed, 28 May 1997 07:38 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Jason:

Is there anything I should know before I involve myself? Or is everything according to plan? What is/was the plan if I may ask?

Wed, 28 May 1997 08:59:43 -0700: Jason replied to James's message:

As the famous Scott Adams quote on my T-shirt reads:

The Network is Down..but I'm feeling Better.

after Don SIC'd me..there was no way I was gonna get another I had the unique privilege of deciding who could win the game....

Wed, 28 May 1997 12:51 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

So, what then are your plans for your tokens? Are you going to sit it out or aid Glen?

Wed, 28 May 1997 10:08:28 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

The network grins evily....not saying anymore..:)

Offrecords:More than likely..we've been pretty helpful to each other most of the game..

Wed, 28 May 1997 13:23 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Thany and Don Fnordlioni:

What cards you guys got left? Anyone got a Red NWO other than Gun Control? Backlash? Alignment Changer?

Wed, 28 May 1997 13:55:58 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James's message (leaving Thany out):

I have nothing useful.
A Don't Forget To Smash the State would be nice.

Hmm... If the Pentagon was Undevestated, the rival Bavarians would have 46 points of power. If there is a way to give them 4 more points, neither Bavarians would win at this moment. It's not hard to undevestate the Pentagon, if someone would knock some sense into the Network.

Thu, 29 May 97 11:44:44 EDT: Ralph wrote to James, Thany, and Don Fnordlioni, in response to James' message:

I point out that Backlash wouldn't work on the Big Prawn (which I presume was what you were implying), since Backlash only applies to Plot-induced changes.

Fri, 30 May 1997 13:59:37 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to James after James played NWO: End of the World:

Many thanks, oh Skulkers of the Arabian Night.

Say, could you do us all a favor, and see if you can't talk some sense into the Network? I'd do it, but I think I'm a big enemy in this game, and he wouldn't listen to me.

Fri, 30 May 1997 17:08 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Well, I'm not that great a convincer, but I'll see. I don't think I'll be able to get him to defend you, but I might be able to get him to stay out of it. If not, my best bet is to hope to draw a Red NWO, then the Texas- Bavarians won't have enough power. I think. I supose I should check. Now I understand the attack on CIA... End of the World won't bring him down enough.

Fri, 30 May 1997 17:18 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Jason:

I was wondering if you had a Red NWO other than Gun Control. With that gone and End of the World, the Texas-Bavarians won't have enough power to win. I don't particularly want to stop the attack under way so Cthulhu won't be near victory conditions anymore. If you're worried about me winning, Cthulhu will most likely target me this round.

What d'ya say? If you don't have one in hand, is there one in your deck? I could buy more plots so you wouldn't think I was trying to get you to spend so I could oppose the attack.

Fri, 30 May 1997 14:46:12 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

By my count..this takeover will only give him 49 pts with no Action tokens left. I don't have a red NWO in my deck to the best of my memory other then maybe the gun isn't really alot I can do either..


???: In a lost message, Glen wrote to Jason:

I take it your plan is to wait to see if the roll will be brought down below a 10 before thinking about spending tokens?

Probably a wise move - you may never need to spend them in that case.

The loss of Hawaii's token is a bit of a blow, actually.

Say, do you have any disasters?

Fri, 30 May 1997 17:54:22 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

No reason to spend what you don't my calcs..your only gonna get 49 power with this unless you've got another ace up your sleeve that I can't think of..this game is gonna make to james if not Thany...(with the loss of 2 groups..that'll put him out of the running EXCEPT for his special goals cause he only has one group left..his ATO..but enough Action tokens to put a serious destructive streak going on...wish we could toast the RSM's..but..)

If Don goes after James, then james will have to recover on his own and/or try to stop Thany..then thany will either ignore me and pound you or try to go back for his 50..that end of the world really messed people up.

and no..I don't have any disasters..

Fri, 30 May 1997 17:59:52 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

I unfort, don't want to stop Glen from destroying you..because all you have to do is sit there, take over your last group freely, and hope you draw your goal card.

However..I don't want to see James Win either..and if you could see it to work on blowing up one of his secret groups (with your RSM's and Illuminati)..I could probably throw in my Illuminati action as well so that we could bring him down from winning position.

That yellow INWO kinda messed things up for both of us.

Fri, 30 May 1997 22:52:30 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Well, listen. I'm going to be at least 1 group down from any goal, because I've already promised to give a group away. So, my chances of winning at the moment are a bit dimmer than I'd like.

If I manage to keep the BATF, I can consider using their huge anti-Fanatic bonus against something like the Libertarians... that would neutralize two groups right there.

And I thank my lucky stars for it.
Of course, being Cthulhu, ALL the stars are lucky...

Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:21:39 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Aactuallyy... either I can give you the win or you can give me the win. If you had down a couple more computer groups, we could just about both win (I was just checking out whether we could both win, but you only have a few groups) - it involves a lot of shifting groups about, and a few other shennannigans. Unfortunately you're too far from Network's goal. But either of us can win.

Come to think of it, if we could get my Bigger Business, ... nope, since we're playing to 12, that would still leave you short a group or me short some power. I can't do it with less than 3 groups, and maybe not even then. We'd have to launch another attack, and there isn't enough tokens about for that to work, I think.

We are not all that far from a joint victory, it's a pity, really.

I'm going to take another look. Maybe there's something can be done, though I'm not super-hopeful.

Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:21:39 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

Depending on your answer to this question, I may be able to make an offer you'd really like...

Are you able to get rid of the Yellow NWO you just played this turn?

Sun, 01 Jun 1997 17:23 -0500 (EST): James replied to Jason's message:

You're forgetting that he gets an extra 4 points of Power from the Clipper Chip. Which would make it 53.

Oh well... had to try.

Sun, 01 Jun 1997 17:36 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's "Are you able to get rid of the Yellow NWO" question:

No, not this turn. Unless one of my top two plots comes in handy. What were you thinking?

Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:23:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James's message:

If the Yellow NWO goes, I can afford to give you several groups. Three should be quite doable, I think. Of course, you'd have to be the one to spend the tokens. It can only happen on my turn or yours.

6/1/97 8:52 PM +1000: Glen replied to James' message:

Alternatively, can you get hold of a decent disaster?

Alternatively alternatively, there is yet another possibility, but I need to work out if you have enough tokens for it.

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 17:02 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's message:

I don't have any Disasters. Jason might, tho. What would I have to destroy?

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:54:55 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:


I don't think I'll let on just yet; if we can't organise a joint victory it may be better not to say just yet. Let's just say it would help for organising a joint victory.

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:12:38 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I didn't get a reply on my most recent message, but I have a possible proposal for you (just exploring the possibility at the moment). I wouldn't make this proposal to anyone but you; you're the only one I trust enough.

It goes like this:

  1. Neither of us are likely to win alone.
  2. By transferring one or more groups, either one of us might win this turn.
  3. If we don't win now, it seems very unlikely anyone will stop James.
  4. Consequently, a reasonable chance of a win now is better than a smaller chance later.
  5. We can roll to choose who gets the group(s).

The first thing I thought is a 50-50 chance, but I thought that was a bit harsh on me, because I'm a lot closer, so I have more to lose if I am the one to give groups.

The second thing I thought is we base the chances on inverses %of goal remaining. But that's too hard on you - it gives you too little chance to win.

My current preference is that we base it on the minimum number of group required, but you may still feel that's too little chance, I'm not sure. We can negotiate over this detail.

Anyway, if you have any interest, let me know. I'll certainly understand if you don't want to do it!

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:18:00 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

If you make this successful and I both miscalculated..unless someone toasts your Clipper are going to have 53 pts of power (+2 for each of the new groups you get) have an easily success win providing no-one roasts your clipper chip..I do have a Yellow NWO in my deck somewhere that would reboost your powers or my own.

I am way out of it as long as End of the world remains in play, cause it lowered my power structure way too far. You have the only honest chance of winning this. I was trying to make it a win you had to work for, but it seems we may have no choice. Let's see what happens after your takeover.

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:56:33 +1000 (E ): Glen responded to Ralph's comment, Cc'ing Jason:

It would be rare. You wouldn't often have enough trust for it to hold...

(I see the smiley, but just treating it a serious for a second:)

They won't know what the roll is for.

I imagine that if the roll was modified, one of the players would call foul and renege on the next stage. If it was modified by an outsider, I imagine they'd just roll again.

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:02:01 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's "You are going to have 53 pts of power" message:

Ah. Quite right. I'm an idiot twice over.

I bet he has a red NWO as well, though. He'll be hanging on to it if he does, to wait until after I declare victory.

Good point.

Well, if the win is thwarted somehow while it is still phase 5, the offer stands. I don't have a problem with doing it. It would make an amusing end - and would show that there is no end to the possible deals that can be done.

I also have a Yellow NWO lurking in there somewhere that would push me way back up again. I can't see how to get to it, though.

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:03:01 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

If you wanna see if we can get me enough power to win..that would be cool..and really upset don when he tried to stop me...if you wanna let a dieroll decide it, that's's between trying to toast that yellow NWO or me just handing you a group..

If I were to win, I would unmask which doesn't cost anything, then we could make the changes in the power structures..I haven't drawn my japan and I got rid of my not really anything I can do about getting that computer group (my only other one) back...

ahh well...

lets roll with the calls..

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:07:07 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Possible..but for some reason I find it unlikely..cause it's giving you +power to this attack..if he was gonna play it..he would have by now to give himself a chance to lower your attack enough to stop you.

I'm willing to see what can happen...if they stop you before you declare, then we can work out a promised win..*grins*

Ralph..what is status of our plot decks?

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:08:45 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's "If you wanna see if we can get me enough power to win" message:

I can just hand you enough groups to win. You have the tokens to pay for the transfer...

You won't have to unmask, but you can if it'll make it easier.

The only problem with unmasking is if the win is foiled, we can no longer share a victory. (It doesn't make us automatic enemies before then, like Thany seems to think - it just stops the shared victory).

Actually, I have a Hat Trick, so I could pick up your Unmasked. But I have no way to get both it and your discarded Network.

Now THAT would be funny.

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:11:09 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Good point. He said he had 2 ways to stop me. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a disaster. He must have another NWO in deck then.


Good question.

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:12:15 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

but the problem is..could we get enough groups between us to make the shared victory?..I don't think we could and still give you the power you need. to win..if we could..that would be CRUEL..if not..I think unmasking would drive them nuts..:)


Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:16:37 -0700: Glen replied to Jason's message:

right..he'll have to spend serious AT's to get it..which will slow him down anywhere else..IF he's smart..he'll try to make me spend my tokens too..but the power of your attack is so high..I don't know if he can.

*grins*..will kinda give us rough idea what to expect.

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:21:04 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

No, we don't have the power to do it now. I meant, if I hand you enough groups to win, but your win is foiled (by a disaster, for example, or an Interesting Times used whichever way is required at the time), then we couldn't share a win later if you Unmasked.

I should have mentioned that IT was the other possibility for James claiming he had 2 ways to stop me.

You have no Corporate Groups, do you?

Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:32:31 -0700: Jason replied to Glen:

Ahh..I see..ok...yeah..true..wish I could draw my other 'trick' card that is in this deck.*grins*..then if we had the would be an easy double victory...(I'll tell ya later what it is)..:)


nope..don't have any...

Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:11:51 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's "nope.. don't have any..." message:

Pity. I was thinking I should hand you groups I don't need before I claim victory. Hawaii is an obvious one, for example. It's just a pity you don't have the Corporate groups to take advantage of it.

Tue, 3 Jun 97 00:00:55 EDT: Ralph answered Jason's "what is the status of our plot decks" question, Cc'ing Glen:

Jason has 14 Plots left. Glen has 11 Plots left.

Tue, 03 Jun 1997 09:22:25 -0700: Jason replied to Ralph's message and Glen's message in a message to Glen:

Thanks for the plot info Ralph...:)

And agreed nice if I could use that, but my deck just wasn't built around that idea..*grins*

there IS a way for us to get the joint on the double bavarian win..but I don't see..this deck has like 6-7 different ways to win. And if I hadn't drawn my unmask-bav combo in time for when I got the power..I was ready for that with a PfioS in my deck..pity I haven't drawn it yet..*laughs*..

My pet name for this deck was the deck from he**, cause you never know which way I'm gonna win this time..:):):)

Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:13:43 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

OK, it seems I have discarded a Bigger Business, but I still should have a Military-Industrial Complex and a Law and Order in deck among those 11 plots.

If I could get my MIC out, Hawaii would be useful to you.

Hmm. PFIOS as well as Unmasked/Bavaria.

I had a Bavaria deck with 3 goal cards in it that could win in a whole variety of ways. I played it with the same group 3 or 4 times, and they didn't realise it was the same deck until I told 'em. It also had a Shangri-La variant.

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:44 -0500 (EST): James wrote to Jason:

So where do you stand now that you know Glen will be over 50 Power with this attack?

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:54:09 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

True..but we'd have to get to that card..and you have no-way to draw other plots right now....

Yeah..this deck, in it's original design, had like 8 ways to win..but I had to cut it to about 4 cause it was so spread out...I could play it several times before someone saw every variant.

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:58:51 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

probably shoulda kept the agent card hidden until Mr James had spent some of those action tokens..I'm trying to get him to spend a few, but he won't if he knows I'm gonna support you.....and by pittsburgh rules..I can't 'lie' to him..but oh well..*grins*

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:01:55 -0700: Jason replied to James' "where do you stand?" message:

can you guarantee me another turn?

Wed, 4 Jun 97 12:10:03 EDT: Ralph replied to Jason's "I can't 'lie'" comment, Cc'ing Glen:

This isn't right--you can lie to him if you want. We don't have any Pittsburgh rules about lying; it's just that many of us have developed careful habits of not lying, because we know that we'll be playing with the same people again, and lies will be remembered.

Telling the truth is not the law, it's just something we've found to be a good idea.

Of course, the circumstances that inform our honesty may not apply to you.

If you decide to tell the truth or to lie, I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me about the reasoning behind your decision.

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:12 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Jason's "can you guarantee me another turn?" message:

Well, nothing can be guranteed in a somewhat random game, but what are your chances of drawing a Disaster with the tokens you have left? Here's what I have in mind: Let the attack continue and once Glen has control, you blow away Brazil. Or let Cthulhu do it. Although I'd rather not, unless it were absoulutely nessecary. He'd have 4 destroyed Gov't groups and get an ATO of a Violent then take over another violent or destroy the Pentagon to get back to the Up Against the Wall Goal. OK, definately don't let Cthulhu do it. Or, how about giving Don back the Soulburner on the condition that he give you the plot he gets or make Glen expose his plots? Who knows what we'd get out of Glen's deck, but it could be interesting. I sure you're worried about me, but I still need three groups. True one could be a Secret worth double, but I have no Secret group in hand and am unlikely to draw one. I'll be using Nephews of God on the plot draw this time.

Some chance at another turn is better than none.

Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:34:49 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

I THINK I might actually be able to arrange the joint still...but it's gonna take some LUCKY plot draws and some trust on your behalf.

Give me the clipper chip so you go below 50 power, or one of the groups..just enough to drop you down. If I can draw my PFIoS and either of us draw our Yellow NWO's..I should be able to get my 50 pts of power on my turn or close to it with the Clipper chip..and your ATO and priv attack will set it so you can get yours as well. If we can't set it so that we make the joint on your turn, I would turn the CC back over to you so that you have the easy victory.

Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:23:14 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

As Don announced earlier..he has one group in hand, and none in his draw pile...more then likely it is probably a violent group, but that still will not give him enough groups to win..even if he does blow away something from someone..he won't have much power left.

I don't have a disaster in hand, and the odds are pretty low that I will draw one......

you are currently the closest to a win (other then glen)..and with the amount of action tokens...getting three groups wouldn't be much of a problem....if we don't let him take over BATF, Don wins, if we do, he wins...interesting position...

wish I coulda canceled the SIC..:(

Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:01 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Glen about his previous message:

Any more thoughts on this?

Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:00 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

[This is for Ralph's benefit as well.]

I'm not having any luck getting a firm position out of Jason. I think, I'm sure, it's that he not nessecarily with Glen but against you. Because of this any tokens I spend will be for naught, so I'll spend them for Plots. I can do that just as easily after the attack as before, so that's what's going to happen. Besides, if he rolls a ten or higher, I won't have to spend all those tokens.

Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:49:59 +1000 (E ) (received by Ralph at 7 Jun 97 4:03 EDT): Glen replied to Jason's "Probably should have kept the agent card hidden" message:

Yeah. I originally planned the attack under the original text which made no mention of the Network. I wanted him to jump in with a couple of tokens right away, so I wanted the attack to be just less powerful than the tokens he had left. I probably overdid it even then. Certainly, once the Network was mentioned, it had to be a weaker attack. And yes, the Agents card was the only thing to hold back.

Oh, well.

Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:46:16 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's "you have no way to draw other plots right now" message:

I can think of two ways, but I don't like either of them.

Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:02:20 +1000 (E ) (received by Ralph at 7 Jun 97 4:04 EDT): Glen responded to Ralph's comments on lying:

I find there are two different kinds of "telling the truth" as well. There are people who rarely outright lie, but they are only telling the truth in a misleading sort of way. Then there are those who don't usually even try to mislead. In a face-to-face game, I'm usually in the second camp of truth-tellers, though there's one player who never believes me no matter what I say, nor how many times what I've said turns out to be true. Weird.

Absolutely. We're in a game with people we won't see again. The costs associated lying are low. And the chance of establishing trust is also quite low - because we don't have any experience of the other players.

That makes me happy that it was in fact possible to establish that in this game.

You have to decide for yourself, Jason, but be careful - since you are unlikely to be believed, you may be worse off by lying.

Hmm. there is a somewhat risky possibility I'd like to think about that might draw some tokens. I'll muse on it while I go to school.

Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:45:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Sorry, I've been incommunicado for days and only just got this.

I've only got a few minutes before I lose it again!

I'm a bit worried about this, because James is going to win on his turn. I have no way to stop him just taking a big chunk of my groups (I think he only needs 2 after his ATO).

Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:10:17 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Yes...but he has already informed me he has no secret groups in hand and as such it is an attack I can interfere is unlikely to let him slide by w/o attacking him..I'm sure we can sure put a damper on's either that or don't declare your victory..

Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:47:31 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James's "Any more thoughts on this?" message:

I can't remember what it was, specifically, sorry.

Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:53:24 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Let's see. One ATO, and one Power Grab. Not much interference there.

Actually, I think Don is likely to do a deal to get his groups back.

I'm still interested in this, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to make it right back to you - I'm certainly not going to be in a position to win by then: I have a large ungainly structure with little defence. That structure won't survive Don, James and Thany, especially if two of them do a deal. Thany's privileged attack is another problem.

Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:39:59 -0700: Jason responded to Glen's message:

Another option would be to pass off a couple of groups, so as to strengthen your structure and balance things out.....not sure about easy way to do that....

Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:12:22 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message (apparently before reading about rolling an 11):

Well, you might take some of the harder to defend groups, I guess.

Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:10:38 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Hrm...without that Don's gonna take an easy victory I believe...I don't know what his last in-hand group is...and he 'said' he has planned to give a group I don't and I could be in some trouble...

Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:55 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Glen and Jason in response to Glen's rolling an 11:

Would you like some help from W.I.T.C.H.?

I would be willing, if you'd consider giving up C.I.A. to Jason AND I could be reasonably convinced that he would not immediatley win from the transfer.

Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:48:06 -0700: Jason replied to James' message, Cc'ing Glen:

Just to lay you at ease James..I am no-where near the vic conditions..I have one doubling more in my deck..and with Japan destroyed..I have to spend a fortune to bring it back..

Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:38:08 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message (without Cc'ing Jason):

OK, I have a couple of possible offers to you I'm considering. I need to check some more details. The offers would be a lot easier to implement without that damn yellow NWO.

As for Jason winning, he has basically no chance, even if I give him CIA and 2 other groups besides.

Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:02:16 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

I thought I was going to be able to make you a better offer - one of joint victory in fact - because I was going to suggest I give you 3 groups (Hawaii, Hussein, LPD's) in return for WITCH's help and we claim joint victory (though I did plan to run it by Jason before actually doing it).

Unfortunately, I forgot Texas would lose a point of power, and then I'd end up on 49 power, so there's no point.

However, I would be willing to go along with your original offer, unless you have another suggestion.

Jason really is nowhere close to a win, so I'd be quite happy to do as you suggest and give him the CIA.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:26:21 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

I'm not sure how to interpret the lack of response to the previous mails, but if it means no, I have some alternatives you might like.

Please let me know.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:36 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

If I were to hand you several groups (let's say Texas and puppets for argument's sake - add in Brazil and the Clipper if you need to), after paying the token cost to take the groups, what would be your chance of drawing PFIOS or Unmasked + Bavaria *this turn*?

If I don't get BATF with the help of WITCH, obviously I don't win and I can't hand you enough groups to win - but can I hand you enough power? What's the chance you can pull off the win?

If James won't use WITCH, I'm going to try to threaten him into helping; however I do want it to be a real, not an idle threat (though I'm not going to go into details with him). I want to be sure that if I do make a threat that if I carry it out, there is a pretty good chance it happens.

I am quite certain James will win on his turn otherwise.

Our second best strategy is for one of us to share with James on his turn. I don't think we both can. If he could get rid of the yellow NWO, actually maybe we both could, but I'll only go into details if it happens or seems likely.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:58 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's message:

I'm sorry, I thought you were mulling it over...

So, I change the roll, you give Jason the C.I.A.?

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:27:11 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:

Yes, I'm happy with that.

Alternatively, I could give you some groups - I'd definitely be prepared to do Hawaii and Hussein, but I don't think you can take any more than that (I haven't checked what other re-arrangements you can do to free control arrows). Of course that still leaves me above 50 and you below your goal, but I mention it in case you have a way to count another group double - such as a goal card.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:40:17 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

It looks like James will change the roll if I give you the CIA.

I intend to stick to the bargain (even though I don't believe the rules hold me to it*), but I'd like to explore some possibilities with you: these include you giving it back right away :), or me giving you the CIA for keeps - by giving you Texas and Brazil and their puppets.

[* The reason is: I can't give you the group when he changes the roll - I must wait until after I get BATF and Hussein, so it isn't enforceable. ]

One or the other of us can win this turn. If you aren't averse to this approach (I wasn't too happy with it before, but I like the alternatives much less), we can even roll for it. Anyway, we can discuss it.

I'm pretty sure James can win on his turn, actually. If I was pretty sure he couldn't, and Thany couldn't, I'd think about playing on. But in the absence of that, I'd rather work out that one of us wins - a decent chance of a win now sounds better than a much smaller chance later.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:28 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's message:

Ralph, when you're ready, W.I.T.C.H. will change the roll to a 10.

No, I don't think there's any way for me to get enough groups to win right now.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:59:06 -0700: Jason replied to Glens' message:

I have the unmask-bavaria in my hand, so could easily hit 50 power by you giving me groups.

of could win by letting him change the roll and me refusing the can be refused..:)

Right..I'd rather see one of us win..just to really throw these guys off...:)

if you wanna..we can roll to decide who takes the win.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:26:52 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yeah, that too. That might be better in the sense that if he has something else up his sleeve, you have a better chance to stop him.

I'm happy to take a roll at 50%. You've assisted enough that my win is almost half yours anyway.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:32:21 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

true...we may wanna just say I refused the gift and let you go for the win..:)

yeah..regardless which of us wins this, I think we can both in our minds share the win...

lets let a roll decide..take your pick..high or low end..:)

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:36:22 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Ralph and Jason:

Since Jason is willing, and James has done the change of die roll, as soon as I get the groups, could you roll a d6 for us?

On a 1-3 you take my groups (You have the arrows to take 2 groups from me, don't you?), and on a 4-6 you refuse the gift - is that OK? If it isn't, you've got time while we wait on this attack to be over to discuss it.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:41:36 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Sounds fair to me..and I think I can actually take 4..each group can take over one other group.....

wait till the attacks and over and just let it fly..this game ends soon..and to only took about 8 months..:)

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:40:35 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Great, though you'd only need to be able to take 2 - since they'll bring 4 others with them. :)

If you get the groups, you should hang on to your Unmasked/Bavaria for 3 reasons: (i) You'll have the groups to win with the basic goal; (ii) if they do take a group off you somehow, you have a backup way to win, assuming your power is still high enough; and (iii) If you are thwarted and don't have the power to win even if you did Unmask, it still leaves us able to share victory later.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:58:13 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's public message:

I'd love to help you there, but there's not much I can do to stop the current action now. :)

You can bet James knew what he was doing; he's not just going to hand me a victory, now is he?

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:15:01 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I see one likely source of difficulty - if I win the roll, and James has a Red NWO, then I can't win.

Obviously he won't tell me that - but he might tell you if we can figure out the right way to ask him. It has to look like you plan for the play to continue into and past his turn; even to Thany's turn.

What we need to know is can he get rid of Gun Control - say as a way to stop me or Thany assuming one of us gets rid of End of the World.

Assuming he does (I'm surprised he'd change the roll if he didn't!), maybe we need to revise our strategy a little.

Alternatively you may be able to find out from Thany or Don, if James answers Don, but James may be the more reliable source.

Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:45:40 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

I believe the above statement is a lie.
Though the intention is probably not to deceive me. :)

Of course, if it is true, there's plenty you can do to thwart yourself -- just hand over your groups to anyone willing to spend the tokens to take them. :)

I don't believe he would, no.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:53:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Not completely. I would enjoy helping you. But not during the resolution of this attack.

pNo. At least not completely.

But that'd be after this attack.

However, I could consider it. What would it be worth for me to hand groups to someone else?

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:41:37 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

I would like you to hand Texas or Brazil to Germany.
Otherwise, I'm not prepared to deal, since my guesses of why the Assassins helped you include your handing over one group to them.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:01:03 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I'd be prepared to discuss handing Texas or Brazil to Jason; whether he takes it with Germany or some other group is more to do with him.

What would it be worth?

(Note: I'm perplexed by this, since Germany was controlled by James, not Jason.)

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:04:39 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason, quoting Don Fnordlioni's message to Glen:

This is part of some discussion between me and Don F. We were discussing the possibility of me handing you some groups. I might be able to talk him into doing something pretty good (though I doubt it). The obvious thing is to get rid of the Yellow NWO.

At least it might give you something to smile about.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:11:50 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

I'll throw away a Plot card.
Or, I'll give it to you, but you won't have much use for it.
And no, I won't tell you what it is.
I can't really offer anything else.
I know what you're thinking: "This is too good to be true!"
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I could possibly give you to make this worthwhile, since I'm presuming you want to win. I'm curious as to what you would take.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:20:43 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Of course I want to win; the question you have to ask yourself is: can I actually do so?

I have a slightly better idea, perhaps, of what I'm up against.

There are definitely some things I'd think about dealing for, but if you could do them, you'd have offered already :). And, no, I won't tell you what they are. Not just yet, anyway.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:28:12 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

He's got nothing to offer, it seems. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted. I was hoping for a Yellow NWO.

I wonder if I should ask for his Weather Satellite.

Maybe it'd make him too suspicious. I'll think about it though.

Let's say I'm about to give you Texas. Maybe I should ask him anyway, then.

Ralph, since the transfer of a Resource is a free move, this deal could be done simultaneously (i.e. be binding), couldn't it?

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:35:33 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I just realised that Don F's offer implies very strongly that he has a disaster he can get to this turn.

Why else would he ask me to give 3 groups to James (and hence the win immediately) off of Germany, unless Don knew he could stop him.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:37:52 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

This isn't entirely accurate -- since I don't know what you'd like, it might not occur to me to offer you something that's in my power to give. For all I know, you'd be willing to trade for something I'd consider trivial. Besides, it's not really in my best interests to tell you exactly what's in my hand and what's in my power and just hope you'll go for it. This whole conversation may be a ruse to get me to admit to specific capabilities.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:38:29 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Even if Don F. does have a disaster, it won't matter much.

I can stop his disasters, even played on you :).

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:44:34 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

It might be, but it isn't, though the fact that you asked me to give Brazil or Texas to Germany did tell me something; however that something I was already taking as a given.

But rest assured that the things that I can think of that I really want, you'd have worked out I want; you're not that slow. If it seems trivial to you, it probably is.

However, events in the next little while might encourage me to take up a lesser offer. I'm not ruling out making some kind of deal.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:40:16 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

He wants you to play the groups off of Germany because that puts them out far enough to be an easy takeover for himself, hence giving HIM the win....I can see his's very devious

I have an early warning in stock if he did disaster me.

no-one else has been sending me messages so I'm not sure what anyone else has. I doubt that James has the red NWO or he would not be as worried about you giving me the C.I.A...

If they do try to stop me from winning this turn via the basic goal (only way they could do that would be to disaster a group)..I may not declare the victory..just sit here and be the last couple of AT's I have for defensive purposes..:)

I'm pretty sure don and James are going for joint if you give them that section of power structure...

Don hands James the RSMs, James hands Don the power structure you pass him, and his ATO gives them the joint win.

I think that covers everything..:)

Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:36:20 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

No! If I give James 3 groups he wins immediately. Therefore Don can only have a Disaster or possibly an Interesting Times.

Mine's better.

Good point.


You could be right. There's an easy way to find out, though it mightn't matter. However, from Don's mail to me, I don't think he and James have been talking - he thinks the deal with James is that I give him a group.

Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:39:43 -0700: Jason replied to Glen:

True...but now it's all for won the roll..*grins*..victory is yours..*laughs*

Ralph..if you need an official story saying how the network refused the gift of the generous bavarians..I can type you up something..:)

Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:14:44 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I suggest we organise as follows:

I post to Ralph (which he distributes) that I offer you the CIA. You then refuse (which Ralph distributes).

If you like this, we'll go this way. If you want to organise it differently, that's fine; just let me know.

Oh, by the way - would you like Hawaii?

Wed, 18 Jun 97 00:09:53 EDT: Ralph replied to Glen's question about whether his deal with Don Fnordlioni would be binding, Cc'ing James:

Um. I suppose so--but I think that if the deal you make is 'I'll give Jason Texas if you give me the Weather Satellite,' then if the gift of Texas doesn't go through, the gift of the Weather Satellite shouldn't go through--because it'd be binding on you, too.

Does that sound like a reasonable ruling?

Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:34:56 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

We could just have it directly as a two part report from Ralph (but we should do a colourful background text for it I guess), that goes something like:

Texas-Bavaria offers the CIA to the Network if it will pay the transfer cost.

The Network refuses the gift.

I'll try to come up with decent background text ASAP, but Jason, if you think of some (or even you, Ralph, if you want), then go ahead and do it.

Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:06 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Glen after Glen's failure to give away the C.I.A.:

So. :) Since I made your attack a success, would you be willing to give me (since I'm the only other one with tokens) CIA? :)

Or, are you still trying to convince Jason to take it?

Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:08 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Jason about Jason's refusal of the C.I.A:

Why? Glen wins if you don't.

Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:37 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:

Don F. wants me to give you Texas (which gives you your win, I think). He wants it off Germany. No free guesses as to what he's holding...

Tell you what: you can have Hawaii, and off anything you like. I could possibly be convinced to give you Hussein as well.

Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:55:06 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James:

I can think of at least one possible circumstance in which I would give you the CIA: if you can give me a Red NWO.

Actually, there are some other possible circumstances, now I think of it, but that would be my first choice.

Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:04 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Jason:

If it came down to it would you be willing to undevastate Pentagon? I might and give a few groups to Thany but I don't have enough tokens.

Ralph pointed out to James and Jason that James could not give groups to Thany when it was not the turn of one of them.

Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:16:16 -0700: Jason replied to James' question:

cause I won't win regardless..may as well control the game..:)

Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:47 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's message:

None needed.

Obviously I want you to give up enough power so you can't win (at least until my turn) so, I'm not really interested in Hawaii. It would make me much too large a target for my liking. Saddam, I will take.

Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:34:50 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to James' message:

However, this was kind of superseded by my later offer of the CIA for a Red NWO. Didn't you get that one?

Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:34 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Glen's message:

Yes, but I am unable to take advantage of that right now. Sorry, I should've said so.

6/25/97 5:48 PM +1000: Glen replied to James' message:

Oh, OK.

Well the Saddam thing still stands, but as I said above, I could "possibly be convinced". I'm not really convinced of it yet.

Glen Declares Victory

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:29:33 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to James about Glen's declaration of victory:

Okay. I'm holding a Sniper. I can off Saddam with a pathetic 4 or less. This will drop Bavaria below 50. But the chances suck.

I'd like to give it to the Network, who could bump the Sniper up with Russia, but, given that he was unwilling to stop Bavaria when offered the gift of a group, I find it unlikely he'd use the Sniper effectively.

Any thoughts? Or should I try for the 4 or less?

If you can do anything better, with or without the Sniper, please let me know.

Assuming this isn't some sort of feint, orchestrated between you and Bavaria, do begin with.

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

That include the +6 for Bodyguard? And the extra +2 for Clipper Chip? I can't get to the Web page to check right now. It would be nice, right now, if the Robot Sea Monsters could give their +4.

The Network seems content with throwing the game. BTW, sorry about the W.I.T.C.H. thing. I thought it would give me a better chance of winning.

Thoughts, yes. Roll right now, no. Lemme buy a plot first.

Maybe I could use the sniper. WHat kind of power are you looking for? Know anybody (you or Thany) with a Martial Law?

I wish.

Ralph: I would like to buy a vow..., um, plot with FF and Nephews' actions.

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:43:40 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to James, citing a corrective message from Ralph:

I erred, in a big way.
I had just come home from drinking and heavy petting, so my illumination was at a low point.
So. This is what Ralph said, in full. (The "you" pronoun refers to me, Don Fnordlioni.)

At 08:45 AM 6/26/97 EDT, Ralph wrote:

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:59:04 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen about James' Plot Draw:

Interesting..he must be expecting more from that plot then I was led to believe.....

if he does end up dropping your power..we'll have to see what we want to do.

Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:45:31 +1000 (E ): Glen responded to Jason's message:

Not a hell of a lot we can do, AFAIK. We can give each other resources. We can swap plots. Or group cards in hand. We can cash in for plots. We can play plots. We can do some "anytime" actions, I guess.

I don't think you can give me groups now that I've declared victory, since it isn't phase 5. Actually, by the argument I just made, the trick of giving someone (B) groups on your turn to stop someone else's (C's) win (with the same Illuminati as B) would only work if you did it before they declared.

However, I'm not 100% sure what is legal during phase 6. Maybe some other actions are OK.

I think Don might have a disaster. If he plays it on Brazil, I may still (just) be OK, depending on what gets played.

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:12:58 -0700: Jason responded to Glen's message:

*nods*...I'm gonna see if I can play don against James, that way the game will drag out some and I may get another turn if they stop you from winning. We can probabably (If I can draw my PFIoS)..still do the joint victory IF we can get past James and Thany..don is pretty out of it if he only has the 1..maybe 2 disasters left he says he does. I have one counter-card for have some..and I still have a full load of Action tokens..including my illuminati..

Thany is the real threat. If James doesn't win, He's got his ATO AND a privileged attack still in his turn...which gives him an easy chance to make up any power he has lost from then and now.

even with the pentagon devistated..he still has ALOT of power there..just the loss of 2 action tokens.

Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:37:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

He may be better off ignoring Pentagon and just making a privileged attack on Texas. Not much any of us can do about that.

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:40:50 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods* are VERY vulnerable right now..which makes you perfect for pickins....I don't think he's gonna worry too much about the pentagon..unless he thinks the power boosts are going to push him over the 50 again..he lost a lot of power with that NWO James dropped...

*shrugs*..I dunno..lets see what James does here..:)

Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:47:36 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yep. James and then Thany. Not fun.

Good point. He may need to go for Brazil as well.

Maybe he has a disaster!

If he does stop me, I hope it is with Interesting Times. _That_ may prompt Thany to undevastate the Pentagon instead of attack me.

It is also our best chance of play getting back to us.

Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:51:49 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

now that would be interesting..I couldn't picture him playing interesting times EXCEPT to stop you as he is SO close to victory as it stands...

and that would make it really really interesting

cross our fingers for that..and hope it's not something else screwy..:)

Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:23 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message about the Car Bomb:

Not a problem.

I can get the same roll, or I can buy another plot in the hopes its a Red NWO. I have one but whether or not it's on top...

It is not clear that James could have gotten that roll; he had no Violent or Criminal Groups with action tokens that could boost the Car Bomb.

Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:21:14 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Since the roll sucks a lot, I suggest fishing for the Red NWO.

If that fails, then I'll open a dialogue with the Network, and cc everyone but Glen on it.

Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:51:29 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

If you don't win this..Don could still win this (save the two violent tokens still on the board)

Mossad destroys RSMs with Weather Sat


Servants Destroy Mossad with sat


with loss of both groups, his illuminati dies, therefore he wins..

just something I noticed.

Sun, 29 Jun 97 01:41:08 EDT: Ralph followed up to Jason's message, Cc'ing Glen:

Not so.

1) Neither Mossad nor Robot Sea Monsters is a place, so the Weather Satellite can't meddle.

2) Mossad can't destroy the Robot Sea Monsters, since Mossad is not Secret and the Robot Sea Monsters are.

3) If Cthulhu destroys his last puppet, which is his seventh group, Cthulhu loses, instead of winning. You can't count your own corpse as your 8th destroyed group.

Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:24:06 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason in response to Ralph's message:

Don is much better off if he can take out someone else's government groups; which is doubtless why he wanted me to give Brazil to James off Germany; kill a gov't group and get some groups back out of power structures in one go.

Failing that kind of thing, there's not much he'll be able to do; I should be able to stop one or maybe two disasters in any case.

I don't think Don (unless he makes some deal for a joint victory) will be winning anytime soon.

Anyway, if these guys were likely to do anything major, surely they'd be doing it by now? The only obvious hold-up (if they can do anything major) is where they know they can stop me, but they are negotiating about working out the benefits; after all there's no point stopping me if you just hand the victory to someone else...

Still hoping for a disaster on Brazil, so I can retoken it... I still have that Emergency Powers (which is a "play any time" plot). That'll take me to 59 power, I think :). Make a nice coup de grace ;P.

Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:41:40 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*laughs* a Beach party huh?..I could just SEE them doing that to you..*grins*..or something like that...

devestate..YEs..we stop him!

no wait!..he undoes it!

then he EP's..ACK!..

um..if they devastate Brazil though..wouldn't you lose the Big Prawn..because it still was devastated...that's one i'm not sure about

Ralph: you're right..I realized I had miscounted when I went home and rechecked it all...but there will be one other group after his I'm not sure what he has planned...but yes...I misread some cards..oops

Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:08:29 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

I _also_ (and here is the killer) have Near Miss.

Damn, perhaps you're right. Near Miss will still save me from devastation though.

(Still, I think EP might have put me back over 50 even so. I'll have to calculate it.)

Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:52:14 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message, just after James' play of NWO: The Magic Goes Away:

*nods*..that's a NASTY play by James though..we'll have to come up with some serious reworkings to get the power pushed back one NWO won't deal with that..but it'll deal with the stupid Global warming..IF I draw I'm trying to hang onto Action tokens until it reaches my turn

Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:03:27 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Told you he either had to have a Red NWO or an Interesting Times.

Damn, I should have just given you Brazil and Texas. They couldn't have stopped _that_ without an Interesting Times.

Mine would, if I could get to it.

We really need an Interesting Times; I don't see how we really stop James otherwise... you'll have to be very judicious with your tokens.

Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:07:52 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote a two-character message to James about his play of NWO: The Magic Goes Away: ":)"

Tue, 01 Jul 1997 17:09:20 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Right..but to win..he has to get 3 groups..or 2 and a secret..and if we really get that desperate, we can probably help boost the power of RSM's, removing his doublers..I don't have anything in hand to do that at this current second..but I'm sure it is something that can be found.

luckily magic goes away only effected me by 3 power...but if I can toast the world hunger..I'll gain 8 back...I hope...

still a chance for joint victory..but James is our only real problem right now..and I think between don and myself we can stop him..esp considering I even still have my Ill. action token..:)

Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:13:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You mean 3 groups OR 2 and one of those two Secret.

Pity they aren't Government...

Actually, I'll be surprised if this happens, but it's worth keeping in mind.

Yes, but he'll be able to launch a lot of attacks. With his special ability, they don't have to be at high power, since he can just try again. If his ATO is Secret... he'll only need one attack to succeed.

Tue, 01 Jul 1997 17:23:40 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Well..according to a note he sent me earlier..he does not have any secrets in hand..and is going to use his NoG for a plot if he holds to this..he only has a one group pull to get a secret...

he does have alot of tokens..but the only attack I can't stop is if he does one against a secret group.

Plus..Don still has Disasters he can save to blow up Germany if we need to.

If I were him..I'd ato the NON secret..that way we could not interfere with his secret take over secret attack...almost as good as a privledged attack

Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:30:07 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

We'll see if he was fibbing...

Yep - except your Illuminati token can still interfere.

However, he'd get a second try, so he may still get away with it.

That's what makes it tricky - if he makes an attack at say 6, do you interfere, or wait for the other attack?

Tue, 01 Jul 1997 17:33:57 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

probably he has that witch token to mess with things..make him spend more and maybe even thatone...and on a second attempt he may not have as much str...

Wed, 2 Jul 97 00:44:48 EDT: Ralph replied to Glen's "If his ATO is Secret" comment, Cc'ing Jason:

Remember that James won't get an ATO, unless he or someone else replaces NWO: The Magic Goes Away with another red NWO.

Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:47:59 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Ralph's message, Cc'ing Jason:

Good point.

I only just figured out why my strategy for the "I'll give you the CIA if you give me a Red NWO" didn't pull that NWO - because to get it, he had no tokens left to take the CIA with.

This is a pity; because if it had been one card higher, I could have handed Jason enough groups to win.

Round 5

Don Fnordlioni's Turn 5

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Wed, 02 Jul 1997 17:20:04 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Ralph, Cc'ing James:

Okay, let's see what I can pull out of my otherworldly ass.

First, I'll place action tokens. All two of them, plus the Weather Sats.

Then I'll see if I can't renegotiate with the Assassins regarding the Robot Sea Monsters.

Basically, I'm offering just about anything to hold on to the Robot Sea Monsters for the duration of my turn. Naturally, when I made the deal to give them up, I wasn't planning on losing 3 groups, two of them lost thanks to the Assassins aiding and abetting. I'll still hand them over, but I'd like to wait until the Assassins' turn rolls around.

If I may keep them, this is what I plan on doing with them:

I'd like to Car Bomb Saddam Hussein, using the RSM's token and a Terrorist Nuke. This should give me:

Power			Defense
 8 (Car Bomb)		 3 (Saddam Power)
 1 (RSM token)	         0 (Proximity)
10 (Terrorist Nuke)	 6 (Bodyguard)
 4 (Cthulhu bonus)
--		        --
23		         9

a 14 or less to succeed.

What I'm offering the Assassins: I can easily promise not to win on this turn, since it's extremely unlikely anyway. I can also promise not to use actions or play Plots to try thwart you on your turn. I can also offer you Hitler's Brain, after my Assassination attempt, if you'd find it useful, or the Weather Satellites, or both. And I'm open to considering any other demands you might have.

Basically, I'm begging for mercy. That Magic Goes Away hurts a lot, but it's better than losing outright.

How about it.

Oh, is the BATF's Power of 3 correct, considering the Magic left the Necronomicon? Don't have the time to check it right at this moment, cause I'm running late.

Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:00:21 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Can you use a Criminal Overlords? I'm just going to stick it back in my deck otherwise.

Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:06:44 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's question:

nope not any use whatso ever..:)

Thu, 03 Jul 1997 14:59 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

OK. I willing to negotiate. Especially after what was going on with Jason. I like to win, but I don't expect you to do somthing that would throw the game.

Amnesty is nice, but the Hitler's Brain thing sounds cool. I can think of a few uses for that. What sort of plots do you have? Any (permanent) power boosters or reloads? Any +10 besides Terrorist Nuke?

Tell me about it. It was the last thing I wanted to do, but it had to be done.

Fri, 04 Jul 1997 22:28:14 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Hardly. I think throwing a game is remarkably cowardly.

I'm holding the Nuke, the Car Bomb, and a Combined Disaster. I'll happily show you these plots, if Ralph cares to confirm. That's it. Shrug.

So, name your price. Keep in mind I'll still be giving you the RSMs on your turn. That's basically all I want in return. I'd also like your non-interference in the assassination attempt on Saddam, and welcome any comments you may have on that. If you just want the Brain (before the end of my turn), and amnesty for the duration of mine and your turns, it's a done deal.

Mon, 07 Jul 1997 08:22 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I'm not sure if I'm reading the above right. Is it: RSM's on my turn _OR_ the Brain/amnesty. Or is it both?

Good idea with the Assassination. Anything that reduces the Texas-Bavarians' Power is a good thing. Especially if another Gun Control were to come out. Which I only mention because I think Jason said he had another.

Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:33:11 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James's question:

Sorry, I see how that could be misread.

Let me try again: I will give you the RSMs, the Brain, and the aforementioned amnesty on your turn, if you allow me to keep the RSMs for the duration of my turn. You will have to pay for taking the RSMs, since I'll be spending their token.

Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.

Mon, 07 Jul 1997 12:39 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Done. Go for it. Oh, you also mentioned you wanted me to not interfere, which I have no problem with. (Just to be accurate.)

Don Fnordlioni plays Car Bomb on Saddam Hussein

Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:31:07 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Don Fnordlioni in reference to Don Fnordlioni's play of the Car Bomb:

It's a fair cop. :)

I don't think I'm even going to try to affect this, nor even attempt to get anyone else to do anything. (I have no idea if anyone can or not - chances are that by this stage not much could be done anyway.)

However, you'll only get one free shot. :)

Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:19:12 -0700: After the death of Saddam Hussein, Jason wrote to Glen:

this is getting pretty nasty.

with Suddam aren't effected THAT much...but that gives him 4 Gov groups destroyed...I know he has a combined disasters in that deck, and at least probably 2 disasters left...and Chuthlu destroying Mossad would be pretty easy except with me having's gonna make it a little harder.....

we may actually have to SAVE Germany (the likely target of a disaster attack as it only has 7 power to resist destrction) in order to stop him from winning.

Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:12:48 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Well, let's wait and see. If he uses a Giant Kudzu or some other non-Instant on Germany, it may help us more than it harms us.

I don't know, but I'm not certain it's worth even telling him I can stop a combined Disaster.

Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:19:10 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

If you can stop the much the better..because if I was him..I'd play Atomic combined with Kudzu..that way I get the atomics instant + the power of Kudzu..

but we'll see..he may have already given up..but I doubt it..anyone who only puts 8 groups in his deck has something devious up his sleeve

I wouldn't be surprised if James has a Seize in his hand/deck either..then it wouldn't matter..he'd get two ATO's and one easy takeover...maybe 2 if he wanted to...

Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:32:24 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Ralph, Cc'ing Jason:

I'm gonna knock.

I'm also mildly interested if the Network has any interest in thwarting the Assassins, should a victory bid happen. I'm being forced to hand them the Robot Sea Monsters, as part of a prior deal, which will put them at 11 groups, and there's not much I can do about it.

Just curious what their thoughts are on the matter. I'd still rather not just hand someone a victory, simply because it appears, for now, that I can't win, cause I never know what's going to come up.

Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:35:44 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I have no intention of letting the assassins win this turn. Luckily I still have my network action token, as you have your Servants token...that is 17 pts of power to stop him taking over a secret group, plus all my other power for any other attacks he tries for.

I'm also wary of Thany's Bavaria..but not sure if I can stop both of yes..both no

James Eddleman's Turn 5

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Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:56:21 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Due to a deal Don cut with James..he has to give the RSM's to him three secret groups and unless my math is like totally bogus..11 groups..there is NO way I could stop him from a takeover..he has just too much global power...I'm not sure what we can do about it...

Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:01:23 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

You do realize that with the RSMs..that gives him 11 groups and PLENTY of global power that he can throw into an all out attack to take over something..or just whittle at it..iv it's non Gov..I can only send so much at it..

even w/o the ATO..he's got a good shot

Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:50:09 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to a previous message of Jason's:

I'm holding a Murphy's Law.

You're welcome to use it to stop an Assassins attack.

Also, just so things are clear -- as part of a prior arrangement, I'm not going to be playing any plots or using any actions to thwart the Assassins. So, I suggest that you concentrate on them, and I can concentrate on the Vatican-Bavaria.

Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:40:25 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I think we may have to do just that...see if I can possibly make him spend alot of his tokens, then nail him with that..if you don't mind giving it to me...

Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:22:39 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

I believe this, but then Don has to get another group or destroy another group... but how do you *know*? Who said what?

Hang on, this might help: I'll expose my two anti-disaster cards.

Ralph - don't do this just immediately yet, I want to thrash it out with Jason if he's on.

Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:30:33 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Don told me all of I am not sure what his exact plans are.

I think he may be giving me a murphy's to stop James at least for one roll if he doesn't fail his roll at I think I can milk him quite a bit....

but watch for Don to pull something sneaky like blowing you and me away and either going for the destroyed 8 groups victory...

(don promised James he would not play plots, so he's giving me the murphy...maybe)

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:20:08 +1000 (E ): Two days later, in a message titled "What's up?", Glen wrote to Jason:

I'm really looking for an answer to my question, as I am trying to decide whether or not to expose Near Miss.

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:05:51 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

You said you had a couple of them..I would expose ONE of them...that way..if he has two disasters..he may try to combine them OR seperate them and throw them both at you and you'd be able to stop both..:)

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:56:54 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

If the Assassins make an attack to control this turn, I'll happily hand over the Murphy's Law to the Network, on the conditions that (a) they want it, and (b) they'll play it to fiddle with the die roll.

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:28:41 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Not a problem..I don't want to see him win. However, I will do this on the condition that Cthulhu assists in stopping both the Assassins and the Vatican-Bavarians from winning w/o completing his own Victory conditions.

???: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Well, I'll do what I can, but like I said, as far as the Assassins are concerned, my tentacles are tied.

???: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message: "Agreed."

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:55:50 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You still didn't answer the question I asked:

How do you *know* what Don and James are doing?

That was what was going to tell me if I should do it or not.

You see the big risk is, if I expose a card, they'll just find a different way to win.

Why would Don give James RSM? What's his gain?

I can't risk waiting, though, in case you're right. That's why I needed to know the answer to my question 2 days ago!


Expose Near Miss please.

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:59:00 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

OH!..That question...sorry

Don sent me a letter..and unless he's lying to me...he made some deal with James to give him the RSM's and not to interfere with his attacks this turn.

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:20 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Ah, that's got me worried; Don isn't stupid. He *knows* that would hand James a win. He also knows you aren't stupid, so he knows you will know he knows he's handing James a win.

So either it was a lie to get us to do exactly what I've just done, which is my suspicion, or it's the truth, and they are going for a joint victory...

BUT what possible reason could he have for telling you then?

Why should you believe him?

Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:27:12 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

It's Possible James had a anti-assassination card and could have stopped Don's attack so he had to cut a deal to survive, and was hoping that I would take the Murphy's curse that he has to stop James, and leave him to slow down Thany.....

Don would need 2 Gov groups destroyed and still hold onto his Mossad to win UATW....if he can't really attack James, that leaves the Pentagon and the BATF as his likely targets for disasters (the weakest of the Gov places out there).

I don't think they would be trying to bluff you into exposing cards. but then, my group doesn't even mess with exposing cards, so it's not something I'm used to seeing.

and exposing one may make them think that's all you have. And I still have the early warning in my hand, so have some protection I can pass to someone if need be....

I do have quite a bit of power, but it's worthless against him taking another secret, but I don't think he is....

cross our fingers

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:58:22 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

BATF isn't a place. Maybe Brazil?

Germany is his best target, of course. He may have made a deal to kill Germany in exchange for the RSM's; I can see that still leaves James up, but would only help Don if James didn't do something else (like stop the Assassination); however I doubt that's what it is about.

Mine does it a fair bit. It's an important part of gameplay.

In fact I can play Near Miss, Beach Party, and then Hat Trick the Beach Party back into hand :).

I wouldn't bet on it. The only encouraging sign is James' lack of activity.

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:28 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Ready to pass the RSMs and Hitler's Brain along?

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:24:33 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

true...but that just gives him ALOT of action tokens....

Don hasn't asked me NOT to interfere with James..and he's going to give me a murphy's to stop I'm not certain on what his actual stratagy is at this point.

that's one of the nastier combo's...full relief, plus an action token, plus 1/2 your recovery back..*grins*....

it all really depends on how honest Don is being with me. If he has promised James he won't attack him (though I'm not certain why he'd do that)...then brazil and Pentagon would be his targets and that would still give the double victory to those two.....You can stop the brazil one, and I guess if I have to I can stop the pentagon one (or at least slow it down). but that still doesn't stop James...except that if Don does give me murphy's and I can make James spend alot of AT''s possible that I could murphy his takeover and we both could stop Don from winning

It's possible we could get Thany in on this...kind of toy with his mind and see what we can get out of him. those NWO's are hurting him as much as us, so....:)

Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:59:02 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' question:

I play I Lied!

Okay, not really. In fact, I don't believe I've /ever/ played I Lied!.

Take them away..... As a parent, it's hard to see them go... but all children, even mechinized death-mongers, must one day leave the nest....

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:39:56 +1000 (E ): Glen commented on the timing of his exposing his Near Miss, Cc'ing Jason:

Damn! That happened too late.

If I got in first and they saw it, great.

If I saw what they'd done first, I'd never have exposed.

Now, instead of having the desired effect (which it can't, now) all I've done is tip my hand, which, after thay've already made the trade is the exact opposite of what I want.

I'd really like to have some luck sometime in the next few weeks.

Did the Servants really send their order before me?

(As I write this up, I see that Glen's was well ahead of the transfer, and I shouldn't have processed them all at the same time. I goofed up there.)

Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:47:18 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's comment:

I think you'll still get the effect of realizing that you are fairly well protected from Disasters...we just need to make sure they don't go after us...

Don had mentioned earlier in the game that he only had 4 disasters, and by my calculations..he's used 3. Now I may be mis-remembering...but if this is true, we should be ok...but it makes me a likely target for disastering.

I didn't know about the Hitlers, but i knew about the RSM' now it's a 'let see what happens' situation.

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:51:43 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

What happens is that we get to choose whether James wins alone, or whether James shares victory with Don F., I think. If we're lucky.

Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:58:05 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

No..I think I may be able to stop James...IF....Don agreed to give me a Murphy's Law if I use it against James to stop him...if I can make James spend alot of tokens then murphy him...that MAY make him weak enough not to succeed in another takeover..and I haven't talked to Thany yet to see if he can stop him or help in any way....

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:09:08 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Okay, that's great, maybe we can stop them both.

Now that you've reminded me of that, I'm not so worried about the exposure - it may still serve some purpose.

So now we can choose between James, James and Don, or Thany. :)

Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:17:08 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

I don't think Thany can take back over enough power w the Pentagon devestated and it doesn't count towards his goal...I just hope I don't have to spend ALOT of action tokens..the more I draw..the more likely I am to draw my 'Power for it's own sake card'...maybe I'll even draw my Yellow NWO to give me some extra Power...w/o the ATO and me losing my turn last's making it a ROYAL pain in the neck!..:)

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:22:53 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Oh, if it gets back to you, we ought to be able to get you a win with the Basic Goal.

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:30:29 -0700: Jason wrote to Thany (Bcc'ing Glen):

It appears that James and Don may be working towards either a joint or controled there anything you can do to assist in stopping James from winning on this turn.

Stopping him would give you another chance at winning by giving you another turn, and right now..that is all we can hope for.

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:31:21 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Yes Glen..I blind Carbon copied that last message to show you that I am gonna try to get some contact with Thany to help slow down James..:)

I'm just SO mean and cruel..

Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:19:26 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

I don't think so. But that was cute. Mind you, if you'd just told me, I'd have believed you.

Lately it has only felt like we've had 4 players. Thany doesn't seem to have done much - but then perhaps that's because he won't see that there can be any benefit in talking to me, even in the short term. He seems to think INWO is a zero-sum game, where in fact even people who can't share victory can work together, at least for a while.

Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:27:02 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Yeah..but I thought this worked as well

*nods*..I haven't heard from Thany in a long time...he may have given up hope on this we'll see what happens...he should realize that we can still stop him

Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:21:07 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Jason's message:

I don't see anything that I can do. My Plots are useless and my Groups were drained trying to fend of Don last turn (was it Don? I forget). There's nothing I can do. I just want to go to bed.

Jason later forwarded this on to Glen, with the comment "Looks like not much help there..."

Libertarians attack to destroy the Pentagon

Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:44:52 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen about James' attack on the Pentagon:

Ok..thoughts on this?..

is there any card that you can think of that these two may be thinking of using that will make this Don's kill and not James?..or is there a control fanatic destroy gov or something..I don't know...

curious though..

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:06:37 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's question:

Odd. Very odd, especially with Don having given away the Brain...

To what purpose, I'm not certain.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they are trying to stop Thany winning on his turn, and aren't planning on a joint victory at all (not yet, anyway), but it seems a bit unusual. Maybe they are going to try to take everyone down.

Maybe I should ask them something like: "Any reason why I shouldn't bring the Pentagon back with Near Miss?".

Alternatively, I could just expose the Beach Party as well...

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:13:01 +1000 (E ): Glen responded to Jason about Jason's forward of Thany's message:

He seems to have spat the dummy, the poor lad.

Maybe the attack on the Pentagon will spark him up a little.

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:23:19 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

*Small light goes on over head*

Hows this for a possibility:

Pentagon is too dangerous to leave lying around. Thany could undevastate it and get back a lot of power, OR *I* could make a privileged attack to control (from Texas or Brazil, and with big bonuses) and undevastate it myself.

They wouldn't then be going for the win, but to try to get the game to last another round...

Here's another possibility, which takes account of Hitler's Brain: James has a disaster coming up, and Don wants it for is combined disaster... and they *are* going for some kind of joint win.

Given that, unless you have a good notion otherwise, maybe I should expose the Beach Party after all. [Ralph - to be clear, that isn't an instruction to do so - yet.]

Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:34:02 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

maybe..but maybe not..if they are going for a disaster (james DID look at his top 3 cards, so does know his next card)...

if you expose the BP..they will know not to use it on you and instead will target me, not thinking that we would possibly protect each other.....

but then..James just spent alot of tokens in the takeover and destruction of Pentagon..and with that low of a roll..I think they are trying to bluff me into spending actions, which I wont, because it is a low roll..I think they may be planning on bribery on this roll..because it's too risky at just a 3...

I don't know what they have up their sleeve..but it's not good

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:54 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Jason:

Help me destory Pentagon to keep Cthulhu from getting it?

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:10:46 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

If I help you destroy it, I waste action tokens that I could spend to ensure that i get another turn. You are ONE group short of victory. If you can give me a garentee you will not win this turn so as I can at least attempt to make some progress (that stupid SIC last turn messed me up), then I would consider it..

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:03:45 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason about James' attack:

I've been wondering about the significance of this, for some time. Here's a tentative analysis:

The Assassins want to use the FF and the Brain to draw their next two plots -- and he knows what those plots are, thanks to the NSA. Of course, this roll sucks, but it can succeed easily with either a Bribery or (more likely) a Second Bullet. On top of this, there's the possibility that this is going to turn out to be a You Are What You Eat attack, which will give him enough groups for a victory.

Furthermore, if it is a YAWYE, it seems that he'd /still/ get the 2 plots for destroying a group, since the text on YAWYE says, "Play this card after you destroy any group..." So, you pull the plots, then take the destroyed group. Right, Ralph?

That Murphy's Law will undoubtedly mess up the attack, but it can't be counted on, cause of some lurking Secrets/Hoaxes.

My suggestion -- spend one of England's tokens to oppose the attack, which will drop it below a 2. Then we'll see if he's serious about it.

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:11:09 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

It would not give him enough groups, because Fred Birch is returned to the hand, and he has to discard the group that made the attack....

he's already asked for my assistance..I'm pondering it..because I don't want to lose action tokens that I can use to stop him from making an actual takeover

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:28:56 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Oops, you're right -- my error. I realized about the Liberatarians going away, but not the Birchers.

I still don't like the fact he's getting his next two plots, though. It's possible that one is a Red NWO, then he can Seize the Time (after blowing group tokens bringing relief to the Pentagon), make an ATO, and declare victory.

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:47:56 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

now THAT's a possability...but then....the only thing I could do is bring it below 2..that would force him to spend more actions..because even bribery can't fix that...but that also weakens the options for him trying a takeover...

I have no card cancelers in hand.....but if I remember correctly..if he plays bribary..then I play murphy's...murphy's wins.....therefor..he would LOSE his Illuminati Action token spending the bribery...not giving him the option of spending Seize the time..:)

Ralph..correct me if I am in error on that card play rule.

I do wantto make sure though that you aren't planning on destroying the pentagon for you're own victory possabilities...

Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:57:30 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

That's correct. But I maintain that he doesn't /need/ a Bribery -- all he needs is the cheaper Second Bullet. Dropping the roll below 2 makes both plays impossible.

Heh. I'm pretty much thrashing around here, like a fish on shore. I have very little confidence I'll be doing much of anything for the rest of the game. I just believe in fighting /any/ victory attempt (that's not mine) to the bitter end.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:57 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Jason's message:

No, I'm afraid I won't guarentee that. I have no way of telling what other cards are present or what opportunities will present themselves. I was just trying to ensure that the next player up will not win.

But, I do have a Japan, in case you wish to ressurect it on your turn.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:59 -0400 (EDT): James wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Care to throw in a little Weather Satellite action?

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:21:20 -0700: Jason replied to James' message:

Unfort, the card that I need to use to resurrect it went out to power the secrets card earlier in the I would not be able to bring it back...

Got another deal?..:)

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:41:41 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

That is true....hrm...

anything is still possible for Chuthlu as long as you have disasters left..:)

what do you think the realistic odds are of hims resurrecting the Pentagon and still pulling off a victory (either Thany OR James)?

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:04:37 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Hey, that's not such a bad idea!

Care to give me an incentive not to drop the roll by 2? I'm not exactly thrilled by the prospect of you drawing your next two plots.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:11:28 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Welp, I think odds are good he's going for victory this turn -- we're all fairly close, so pretty much anything he does is an endgame-type manuver. I can't imagine this attack is just for the helluvit. With this in mind, I'd like to see it fail.

I haven't assessed Thany in a while. I know he's got an agent for the CIA somewhere, so he can snatch that up without much fuss -- Glen's wide open for scavaging. I'll give him a closer look later today.

And of course, I'm worried about you. :)

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:27:06 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

I wouldn't be...Finland is the only doubled group..Japan's been destroyed and I nuked my counter-rev playing the secrets..I'm still aways off..and without the ATO' makes it THAT much harder for me cause my groups aren't exactly strong..:)

agent for CIA hrm....letting him keep the Pentagon might not be good..if he can get rid of either of the NWO's that are affecting his power, add the CIA and the pentagon and he's got a victory...

but then...letting James get it isn't much better.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:16 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Well, I suppose I could promise not egg someone on to attack the Mossad, your last group.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:18 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Jason's message:

Hmmm... possibly, I'll have to think about it.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:43:36 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Don wants me to stop him.

James wants me to help him

Thany's not saying a word..:)

oh what a tangled web we weave..and me..with all the action tokens..

I can see both arguements...any personal thoughts?

Ralph:I'll be making a decision soon

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:22:49 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Ooooo, you're so mean!
After all I've done for you!

Hmm.. I'll have to think about that. After all, I still have some defensive capabilities and an Illuminati token.

Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:29 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You mean to stop James' attack on Thany?

Ask Don what the hell he gave James Hitler's Brain for, if it wasn't so he could destroy something?

Then ask him why you should believe this isn't just a trick to get you to spend tokens.

Isn't it at 3 for the moment? Should you waste tokens on that?

He needs to convince you that he's not going to win this turn, before you should waste tokens stopping Thany.

Yes, let them *convince* you. I smell a rat.

Why would Don give a group counting 2 towards James' goal *and* a destruction-resource, and then immediately want to oppose an attack to destroy launched by the person he gave it all to?

If you do become convinced by Don, *still* talk to me first. I may be able to save you some tokens. I suspect it is all an attempt to strip you of tokens before a joint victory. They should convince you that's not the case before you commit anything.

Just don't be hasty.

Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:42:50 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

That's the question I forgot to ask...hrm....I better check.

Don is saying he's no-where near a win and is just trying to stop everyone else..all he wants me to do is drop is below two so James can't brib or second bullet it.

He already said he can't promise me that..

I am just curious is to what would happen if I leave Thany with the pentagon...would he be TOO close to victory?

so have I..but the 2 rats are argueing both sides...:)

maybe like a Kudzu against me..because I have coastal places..yet I can defend when I have action tokens..

Just want him to know that I am not idle...I'm pondering.

I'm really tempted to just let it go, if he suceeds and/or bribaries...Don's got a Murphy's that I can use to fail it instantly (if that is what Don wants..and I'd only be out my Illuminati token...but then..that's my ONLY token that can stop secret groups, opening James up..though he has spent ALOT of his secret tokens....


(I'll probably sneak to my friends computer and pull down my mail tomorrow, as I leave work in just over an hour and can't access this mail from my house, so if something comes up..I can get it)

Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:18:38 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

This is obviously bullshit. Someone trying to stop everyone else doesn't hand one of them "two" groups. If he wants James stopped from winning, why the hell hand him RSM's? He is either lying outright, or (perhaps more likely) only telling you half the story.

Possibly not. Let's assume he has the tokens to undevastate Pentagon *and* make a Privileged attack, on top of his ATO. Further assume that the ATO and the Privileged Attack net him 8 points of power total (which given his deck and the NWO's in play seems generous).

Does that leave him anywhere near a win? Maybe not.

Also remember that any NWO's that increase his power will almost certainly increase mine, most likely spoiling his win.

My biggest concern with Thany is if he goes to attack Texas with his privileged attack - he'll probably succeed, as I have no defence. However, if he still has Pentagon, he might spend tokens undevastating *that*, which would be much better for us.

Put yourself in James' position. If he's going for the win, why on earth would he waste a Bribery (or indeed *anything*) on destroying the Pentagon? If he's *not* going for the win, why wouldn't he try to convince you of it?

How would you use a Bribery if you were James?

If Don is trying to stop everyone, why would he put James so much closer to a win for no obvious gain?

The only way I can make sense of this attack is that no matter who you want to succeed, you spend tokens... and this is designed exactly to do that. But even that isn't convincing.

I'm really not sure about what is going on.

Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:21:07 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Don's recent q. on the list:

is also a little ominous in the context of the game.

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:44 -0400 (EDT): James replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

How do you think I felt? When the first counter-offer I get threatens to drop the roll by 2? Nice try but you could've threatened more nicely. ;)

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:14:43 -0700: In response to a plea for action from Ralph, Jason Cc'ed Glen on a message with his intentions for the attack:

I think I'm just going to let it ride at a 3..let them have fun with it..:)

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:00:30 +1000 (E ): In response to the same plea from Ralph, Glen wrote to Jason:

Which way are you leaning, Jason, roll goes up, roll goes down, or leave it alone?

If you want to save the Pentagon, you may be better off with me giving you Near Miss and Hat Trick (so I can get Near Miss back, of course). This leaves Pentagon devastated.

I'm not sure yet what James can gain from destroying the Pentagon (apart from costing you a token), but if you decide to help him, I think it is just a matter of deciding what you can afford.

Did you work out what Thany's power is if he undevastates the Pentagon?

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:06:55 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Near Miss/Hat trick would cost me just as much as spending an action to lower the roll below 2 to make it a useless roll for James..

I think I'm going to let it ride..that way..neither Don or James can succeed in getting me to spend actions.

I think James may be just going for a plot card from his deck, maybe to give to Don?..I don't know.....

Ralph..roll away..let him roll snake eyes..:)..if he can

and if he succeeds..then maybe we'll see about using the near miss on it.

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:34:28 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Of course! Now why didn't I see that.

OK. I saw your other message just after I sent mine.

Could be - but you'd never waste a roll changer on that, would you?

Maybe to get rid of the Pentagon as well...

But I can't then Hat Trick it; is there enough time to give them both to you [Ralph?]? (Or are you uninterested in Hat Tricking it?)

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:51:36 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

no..but then again..he may have just been taunting me, to see where I stood with helping/hindering...

I.E..A VERY poor bluff attempt...make me spend more to help him so he doesn't have to..or make mespend to stop him so that he can make an easier takeover of his 12th group

No..we'd want to save should still be able to give me both the cards if I need them to make it give me hat trick, and if he succeeds, you near miss, and I hat trick it, giving it back to you or just holding onto it, whichever is easier..:)

if he fails..I can just hand you back the HT and no-one's the wiser

Mon, 28 Jul 97 22:29:59 EDT: Ralph replied to Glen's question, Cc'ing Jason:

Giving Plots is a free move, so you can give the Near Miss and the Hat Trick to Jason between the time the dice are rolled and the time the Near Miss is played.

You could also give them to Jason now, but Jason would then have to get rid of two Plots.

Glen, I'd appreciate it if you could give me a response to this message within the next few hours, just so I don't have to wonder whether or not to wait for you to give the Plots to James.

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:15:19 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Ralph's query for action, Cc'ing Jason:

I can't really do anything, as much as I'd like to see this attack fail.... England?

Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:17:45 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's query:

nah..let him spend ALOT of stuff to make it succeed...

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You can't Hat Trick my play of Near Miss - you'd need Stealing the Plans for that. I don't think you can pay for me to play it either. If we're going to do it at all, I think I have to give you both cards - but as Ralph confirms, I can give you both cards after the die roll. Let's just wait and see.

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:30:03 -0700: After James' failed roll on the attack, Jason wrote to Glen: that he's failed..and I'm still stocked..lets see what happens...witch can't change it by 2..*grins*..

so he's going to have to spend some kind of card and actions to make it succeed...and I think I may be able to hold Don to his Murphy's law card AFTER he spends it..that way it'll force him to spend tokens and will only cost me one plot card and my illuminati action token..but that's not bad...

Thany's Turn 5

history | hands | conspiracies | comments

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:17:26 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen at the beginning of Thany's turn:

Hrm..this brings up all sorts of possabilities...

if we can keep Thany from pounding you, which is likely as he has to spend quite a bit of power to get Pentagon restored (if I remember correctly it's like triple printed power of 6..right?)

that'll squeeze him of actions, also..he gets no ATO..unless he can replace the Red NWO (HOPEFUL as I need an ATO)..


Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:10:03 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Thany may actually be better off leaving the Pentagon devastated and going all out for Texas with a privileged attack, but it depends on the power he'd end up with.

I wish I had a No Beer about now. With it and Beach Party (a dry Beach Party!), I could give Texas a token, and have a far better chance of survival.

I just had a thought: I could offer Thany a bribe... like a group just before he knocks, perhaps.

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:19:03 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

without undevestating the pentagon, taking over Texas would not give him enough power to win (he only gets 10 pts of power from it since he has no Clipper chip)...

*nods*..I can also supply 4 pts of defense for Texas w/o having to affect my plot there is that.

maybe..maybe we could convince him to knock out Germany and/or the RSM's...I'd almost give up a token to see the RSM's go down.

another thought..we could always just knock don out of the game..*grins evily*

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:30:07 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

With all the puppets? Wow. Yes, actually, that's probably right.

Oh, he'd be mad not to make it privileged anyway - because James would also try to stop him if he was going for the win.

Looking interesting. With some luck we may just survive.

RSM's are Secret, so it's a bit hard to affect them directly.

I'd contribute something to an attempt to get rid of either of them though.

Now that I'd contribute to. When my turn comes around, I might even make it look like that's my plan for a while... just to see what he does.

Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:42:08 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*double checks himself* yeah...actually..9 pts of power, giving him a total of 41 and only 8 groups

True..but if we can convince him to direct at the Obvious winner(s) James and Don...we may be able to keep alive.

*light bulb* they wouldn't be going for a triple victory would they?'d be hard..but possible...

Yes..but I do have an illuminati Action does Thany, and if They aren't going for Joint..Don may even join in.

*nods*...If I don't do it first..I have a mossad in hand..*GRINS evily*..and if I want to make sure..I'll just give it to you and let you blow him away..:)

Tue, 29 Jul 97 21:56:00 EDT: Ralph responded to Jason's message, Cc'ing James, to correct Jason's math:

For the record:

By my count, Thany currently has a total power of 32. (Not counting Pentagon or Fred Birch.)

Taking over Texas would give him the following power:

	Texas: 6 - 2 + 1 = 5
	Local Police Departments: 1
	CIA: 6 - 2 = 4

Controlling Texas would also give +1 to OPEC's power, for a total boost of 11. This would put him at 43.

Please tell me if you see any mistakes in my calculation.

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:32:47 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason in response to Ralph's message:

I think that's correct.

So to have any chance, he'd have to undevastate the Pentagon, take Texas *and* still take something else, I think. And he won't be allowed to do that, I suspect; without the ATO that leaves him rather stuck for options.

Of course, if he does manage to take Texas, it will leave him short of tokens to defend it when my turn (and privileged attack, if needed) come around.

I think the game is quite likely to make it back to us two.

Whether we can get a win from there is less certain, especially with the damn NWO's there now.

I think this is going to get bloody (or even more bloody).

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:53:57 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to James:

So, since I didn't drop your attack roll, you're not going to be mentioning attacking the Mossad to anyone.. right? I'm operating under the impression that we have a deal, which is why I didn't interfere.

Or am I just a big sucker?

I'm not questioning your word or honor or anything, mind you. I'd just hate to see you accidentally forget.

I have to admit, I'm surprised you didn't declare victory last turn....

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:16:54 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

As a defence against Thany possibly making a privileged attack on me, would you consider giving me Soulburner until his turn is over?

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:16:22 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*...w/o an makes it hard..but if I don't have to spend more then one action token, I can get 5 plot cards on my turn, and possible overturn at least ONE of the NWO's..I don't think I can get rid of 'magic' but EoTW is a good us EACH more power..but still not quite attack to destroy (or control) the mossad would be cool...I'd like to control my plot picks..but this late in the game it's kind of a moot point..

Ralph..thanx for the recalc...I thought I was right the first time when I said 10..then I recounted and it came up wasn't sure..

If I were thany...I'd either undevistate and pray..or just take action tokens and sit back...but I don't know

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:17:14 -0700: Jason responded to Glen's proposition:

Now can I give that after he declares..he may go after some of my nations...if so..I'd do it then..if not..I'll give it now, as you are at more of a risk then I am.

Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:58:45 +1000 (E ): Glen responded to Jason's message:

i) Soulburner doesn't actually *do* anything with The Magic Goes Away in play. I was just hoping to make him look elsewhere - I'm the only one without tokens. It might encourage him (or someone else) to remove it.

ii) Once he declares Privilege, you *can't* give me anything.

Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:15:30 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message: can have it..not like I paid for it..*grins*

Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:10:09 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Thanks! It may not do anything, but then again it might.

Of course, you can have it back at any time (except during a Privileged attack, of course).

Jason Bostick's Turn 5

history | hands | conspiracies | comments

Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:23:16 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen about his card draws:

OK glen..I got it..shall we still try for the double win

(it referring to PFioS)..

I did not, though, get my NWO's needed to toast those ones that are there, and I only have two takeovers in my group and that I can do at all..not alot of power..but things I can do..I can also probably toast fnordlioni with my agents, or let you do it..

I have a hammer of thor and a necronomicon in hand to, so there are other ways to get power...

suggestions, comments, other?

Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:24:37 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yes, of course. If you can only nearly get there, I may be able to give you a few points of power on my turn.

OK, I think I should be getting a NWO real soon now. Maybe we can still work this.

Necronomicon may be very handy as far as power goes.

I've never seen anyone play the hammer in a game where they had free choice of what cards went in their deck... is it better than I think, or is there a tricky strategy I've missed?

Well, I don't know what you've got, but if you plan anything big, let me know and I can help.

If we really want to take out Don F, it may be better if I do it with a Privileged attack, but it's really up to you.

You don't have any way to draw my plots, do you?

Oh, don't forget, I have a Hat Trick... if it's important to get a card back.

Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:23:05 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*....that would be handy..I really would like an ATO right about now...but oh well..nothing I can do bout that now..looks like I'll just have to take over Israel naturally..*sigh*...ATO's are just handy..:)

my other winning strategy was a WWW III explosion..and the +2 to government groups on attacks was very handy..:)

nothing really big..if I had gotten Isreal last turn..then Mossad would have been GREAT for me to takeover...but oh well..

*grins evily*..I have 2 'Ketchup' cards for taking care of Don..but you do have more power then I do for doing it.

Unfort I don't...

*nods*..and if you need cards to discard..I've got cards to burn right now.

Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:57:49 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

I got an extra new blood..if you want..

could help out giving 3 pts of power to your LPD..:)

(more of we can get rid of the NWO's)

suggestions for attack..or should I just try to get israel down this turn..

I do have the ketchup is a we do have, in effect, 3 priviledged attacks we can play with, 2 with +5 bonus's..:)

could really injure James and maybe knock don out...:)

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:19:07 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Certainly could, but I'll have to get rid of a plot. Can you hold on to it for the moment? I may end up using a plot before your turn ends, and then it won't be an issue.

If we can get rid of End of the World with a Bigger Business, which I should have coming up soon, it wouldn't matter much, but more is always better. Maybe I could afford to give you a group in return.

Possibly. Can you use Ketchup for that? Should I pass you Hat Trick so we can get Ketchup back?

Three? Oh, of course, with the Hat Trick.

Well, maybe you should do the attack on don, if you can muster the points easily?

Yep, though James has lots of Tokens, so it would take a combined effort I think. Could be funny though. If we decide not to go for the win this turn, we could certainly make it harder on the others.

Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:30:42 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

no..ketchup makes a priveledged attack to destroy with a it won't help me get isreal..

also..if we happen to destroy a group with a lead group that we don't really need...I have a 'you are what you eat' so we can just make a quick switch..

well..if you include hat trick..4..I have 2 ketchup cards..:)

Yep, though James has lots of Tokens, so it would take a combined effort I think. Could be funny though. If we decide not to go for the win this turn, we could certainly make it harder on the others.

that'd be fun..*laughs*..but what about thany..we didn't hear anything from him this last round..and he does have a pile of tokens..

been wondering if he's hitting burnout syndrome..we're about to hit the 1 year mark in a couple months..:)

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:39:30 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Oh, of course, I forgot it was an attack to destroy. I remember it's against Government groups though.

Nice :) . That may be quite handy at some point.

That's great. Well

Not too bad, but maybe you shouldn't waste too many tokens.

What would you need to take Israel? How close would you be?

If he stays out, I'd say go for James and maybe leave the win for next turn. If he's going to participate in the game, I wouldn't do it unless he's going to contribute. And even then making James weak may hurt our chances of stopping Thany on his turn.

Maybe. (No stamina.)

Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:14:47 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

right..which makes Germany and mossad very profitable your priv attack...or we could even just use one on Thany..but then..he's got serious power.



I wasn't planning on it....maybe make it a 5 or 6, I don't know if I would succeed, but it would spend his action token..:)

well..if I dictatorship England, I would have a 6 w/o adding anything more into the attack, more if I wanted to add russia and/or Canada

hrm...what about...have russia take israel, with assistance from finland, making it an 8...then england attacks to control mossad after being dictatorshipped. 6+8+10+10-28=6 to control it, seven if I add canada..

another crazy thought..but then..israel does say +8 to ANY attempt to control Mossad..I could give you the agents and let you take it over..*grins*..and then give it to me, as the Mossad is handy in a network deck (not really this late...but heh..:))

*nods*..true...well..I should make a decision...prolly should at least get one group this turn...

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:35:47 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to the message from Jason:

I negelected to finish the sentence, which should say something like "Well, that should mean we can take out Mossad and some other groups".

Yep. It also may be worthwhile starting an unprivileged attack first to see whether everyone would help anyway :).

I don't think I can get your +8, if that's what you're saying.

One thing I was asking about was how much power would you have after you take Israel (and whatever else you're doing)?


Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:45:01 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*..and as no matter what I'm prolly not going to get any power this turn..I can probably just roast the mossad and wait..

just start it and see if maybe James would toss in some help..Hrm..:):)

bummer..oh well..:)

Israel is only a power 3 group..and with EoTW in effect..that's only power 1.

there really isn't a way for me to get power this turn...just another group that'll be worth alot of stuff later (other group is al amarja)


Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:35:22 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Glen and James:

So, there's not much I can do about the Network.

However, I'd love to take this oppurtunity to expose a Murphy's Law, since he just drew a SLEW of plots. How big is his hand, Ralph?

BTW -- can sherlock be counted on to help thwarting efforts? The passing was a little bizarre, given the golden oppurtunity.

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:21:46 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Don is just about to expose a Murphy's Law. He seems eager to use it to stop you.

This may give you another way to get rid of his token: if you can play a plot he'll want to get rid of, he may spend his Illuminati action on that, leaving you free to take or destroy Mossad.

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:25:28 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Don Fnordlioni's message (not Cc'ing James):

Me neither. All my plots are defensive.

I doubt Thany will do much unless it gets back to him, but you never know. I must admit to being puzzled, since he had a perfect opportunity to turn my power structure into confetti.

Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:29:53 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote another message to Jason:

Soryy, that last message must have sounded strange, I was getting muddled up.

You may like to make an attack using a Ketchup. He won't use his token to defend, since he'll save it for Murphy's Law, which means it should be easy to get the roll to 10. When you (or I) play the second one, he won't have a token to defend with... :)

Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:06:32 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:


he's got a nat 10 for defense..which I have to get by...I could just use my agents card, make him spend the murphy's...then we'd still have the 2 ketchups..but then...james may try to step in..or Thany....

he's probably mad because I wouldn't contribute to the attack that James was doing..oh darn..*laughs*.

need to come up with an Ideal way of spending my tokens to make sure he spends that token...

suggestions on proper order?

Sat, 09 Aug 1997 14:31 -0400 (EDT): James replied to a much earlier message of Don Fnordlioni's:

I know you sent this a long time ago, but it deserved a response...

I haven't and won't say anything about Mossad.

I didn't have enough power to overcome both Illuminati actions that were around. So I went for a destruction on a plyer that could win, if they were still playing... That turned out well...

Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:42:59 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to James' message:

Okey. That's comforting to know.

Russia attacks to control Israel

Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:40:43 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason in response to Jason's attack:

You don't want me to do anything here, right? (Not that I can).

Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:07:55 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Correct..I'm gonna let it ride and see if I can get Don to burn that token trying to stop me....well..actually..he WILL stop me, but that's ok..:), cause I'm gonna make SURE he's not around to relish in that decision..:)

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:31:08 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason about his successful roll:


Actually, I don't think Don will be silly enough to Murphy's that unless he's certain you can win this turn.

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:07:24 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

I agree...he'd be kind of crazy, but then..if he doesn't...instead of destroying mossad..I'm gonna try and take it over..W/O the agent, make him spend the token, either in defense, or on the murphy, then use the agent to finish him off, by either you or me, with the ketchup, destroying it would be easy.

The best destruction protection he has is 12 pts w/o the the Servents action token (10 for distance, plus one of his W.S.) agents and ketchup neutralize that and leave it at a any actions we want to put into it...

It's either that..or maybe I should make a feint and take a priv attack to destroy Germany. My only problem is on ANY attack to destroy the easy destroy groups, I lose for because of my like Gov takeover is a better option for me...

Ralph...lets wait a bit, see if Don is going to stop me, then I'll decide on my next action.

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:22:26 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni and Thany:

I'd really like to knock James down a bit...would you be interested in donating some tokens to blowing up those nasty RSM's or even the NSA?..that would knock him back to 9 or seven depending on which we attacked

Max defense on RSM=1+5+15(global tokens)=21
Max defense on NSA=5+10+19=34

up to you two..of course, because I cannot do it alone.

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:21:33 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni and Thany again:

Thanks to ralph..he corrected my mathamatics.

Defense to RSM=11
Defense to NSA=20

Either one of these would be fairly easy targets for our three illuminati to take out (9+8+10=27)..

and unless I misread it, we could even toss in one of don's weather sat's, making it 31, or an 11 to destroy the NSA..*grins*

Tue, 19 Aug 97 15:18:30 EDT: Ralph followed up to Jason's message, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni and Thany:

You misread it, unless you can convince me that either the Robot Sea Monsters or the NSA is a place.

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:18:59 -0700: Jason replied to Ralph's message, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni and Thany:

it should be..*grins*'re right..but still..a 7 is a good strong roll to blow him up..:)

That's what I get for speed reading cards at work..:)

Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:35:37 -0700: Jason wrote to Thany and Don Fnordlioni:

Are you two interested in stopping James?....I'll start the attack if you two will help me blow up the NSA and/or the RSM's.

Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:25:48 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason:

I'd like to see you destroy either the RSMs or the NSA, sure.

I need to know, though, that somebody's going to hold onto an Illuminati token to Murphy's Law Glen, if/when it's neccisary.

I also need to know if you're going to be making any more attacks to control before I blow my token... :) If I can get a confirmation that you're not going to be rolling the dice again during your or Glen's turn, I'll promise to aid an attack to destroy on the RSMs or the NSA (your pick, doesn't matter to me).

Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:37:40 -0700: Jason responded to Don Fnordlioni's mesage:

I don't have enough power left in my structure to make a successful takeover of another group (at least, the ones I have. Bout the only thing I could even remotely try is against your mossad.

If you help me, I will not take over another group during my turn and save my actions for defense and or stopping a victory.

However, without Thany's help..we can only take out the RSM's...unless you have something else that would help us out

Fri, 22 Aug 1997 20:23:03 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Okay. This sounds good to me. It's a done deal then.

Welp, it's no big thing. I'd like somebody to hang on to an Illuminati token anyway, to power my Murphy's Law in case Glen gets all uppity.

The Network Attacks to destroy the Robot Sea Monsters

Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:05:34 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Ok..I got him to spend the token blowing up the RSM's..and all I promised him was I wouldn't use my tokens to go for a victory or to take over another group.

I'm gonna Dictatorship England, just mainly to get a plot out of my hand....then if you want to stick to our original plan, I can give you the Ketchup and the Mossad agent for you to blow up his Mossad with one of your bavarian tokens, (10+10+5-10=15 to destroy..or even save the agent for a second attack and I can even hand you a second ketchup..:):)..he can only stop one.

..if you have any card cancelers, you may need it in case he gets Thany to murphy the attack

sound good?

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 07:52:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:


I'm gonna Dictatorship England, just mainly to get a plot out of my hand....then if you want to stick to our original plan, I can give you the Ketchup and the Mossad agent for you to blow up his Mossad with one of your bavarian tokens, (10+10+5-10=15 to destroy..or even save the agent for a second attack and I can even hand you a second ketchup..:):)..he can only stop one.

We just need to work out the timing. It looks like you or I will have to do some discarding, depending on whose turn we transfer the cards on. How many cards do you have?

I can happily discard one card right away.

I don't think I have any left. Certainly not in hand.

Whichever way you think.

I don't think we'll be winning this turn, which makes me hesitant to spend both Illuminati tokens. Taking James down is a good idea, because he'd win otherwise.

Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:09:09 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

I'll need to burn some, but then..I've got an unmask and and a Bav illuminati card I can ditch..:)

then I can wait till your turn to pass you the cards, giving you the cards only when you need them.

yeah..neither do I..but we should be ok I think.

True..but have some other high powered tokens we could do it with...the Illum is just good cause they don't fall victim to the allignments alike problem.

DO you have like a garbage group that looks like something you'd really really want to take over..maybe bluff him into using the murphy's..but then..that's only if he can get a response from Sherlock..which I have been unsucessful in doing for the past month.

Sherlock may not pay for the card though, rendering it worthless..:)

and I figured the attack against James would be worth'll knock him back to 9 groups (woulda been 7 if I could have gotten sherlock and done the NSA) which will help..the lack of ATO's should slow him down a bit, and next turn I should be able to increase my power a little bit..:)

that is, barring Sherlock coming along and beating us all..:)

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:31:30 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Okay, good.

Actually, I may try an attack to control Mossad first (privileged). I have lots of bonuses from various groups. The destroy would come second.

I don't have anything right now. I think my group hand is empty.

It's possible, because we keep proceeding as if he's not there. If he suddenly "wakes up" just at the wrong time, we're dead.

Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:43:41 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*..just remember..Mossad has a 17 defense VS takeover, otherwise I would have done it with my agents and my +8 from Israel, but with him still holding a token..I couldn't afford that...:)

ok..wasn't sure..I'm just watching that murphy's..

Exactly...which is why the privileged attacks are so important...use them to the best of our ability and try and hammer on James and Don...then look at Sherlock...and hope..

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:46:54 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yeah, good point. It makes me about the same from either, I guess.

I better check what the blue NWO's are at present, too.

[on my group hand]


Yep. Maybe we should try an attack on him to see if he'll wake up. If he times out on that, Ralph may retire him or something.

I might even be able to talk James into aiding that.

Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:08:30 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Heh..yeah..kinda important in calculations..:)

That would be helpful..James may not like me after this turn..*grins*, but an attack to slowdown Thany would probabably make him forget about me..:)..then we'd have another turn to build up and pommel or win, whichever we look more likely to do..:)..

if we get rid of Global warming..I'll gain 8'll gain alot more..enough to win I think, so if we can get a couple more groups, we could still joint...I haven't done all the calcs on what you would get, but it's alot..:)

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:42:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

> Heh..yeah..kinda important in calculations..:)

according to the pbem page:

A Thousand Points of Light -
"Opposed alignments now have no effect either on attempts to control or attempts to destroy"

So no destruction bonus (nor control malus) from peaceful or corporate groups against Mossad. Not that it makes much difference.

Depending on how other things go, I might ask James before I try anything.

Global Warming?

According to Ralph's page it's "A Thousand Points of Light" for the Blue. Did he miss a change?

End of the World is what's killing me (that, and the loss of Gun Control).

A Gun Control + Bigger Business would put me at about 70 points, plenty to be going on to a win with. Either should get us close enough to 100 points between us. I also have a Criminal Overlords around somewhere, but I don't know if it will be worth playing.

I'm not sure, but I may even have both left. I forget - did I play that Gun Control that was out before?

Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:47:40 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

True..but any violent groups would -4 (I.E. texas,LPD, etc)

*nods*..we'll need his help....but he'll probably only help to destroy, not as not to give you more of an advantage. mistake..said the wrong's EoTW that I meant..:)

ouch..that was a long time ago..but I have logs..I'll go back and look.

I'll let you know..

Mon, 25 Aug 97 22:28:08 EDT: Ralph replied to a message of Glen's, Cc'ing Jason:

I asked him if he wanted to retire, and he responded with a 'No'. So I'm not going to retire him for a while.

I think it's reasonable for you to know this fact and use it in your planning.

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:02:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

It's OK, I grepped my game log.

Don played it. I'm pretty sure he didn't get it from me.

OK, I'm now pretty sure I have a Bigger Business and a Gun Control among my remaining plots. Funny if I drew both next turn (unlikely though).

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:06:32 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Ralph's message, Cc'ing Jason:

OK, what happens if we attack him and he doesn't wake up? Does the attack proceed?

If so, a privileged attack to control on Thany might be worth the gamble!

Mon, 25 Aug 97 23:14:28 EDT: Ralph replied to Glen's question:

I'll allow him an extra-long time to respond, and if he doesn't respond, then the attack goes through.

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:21:38 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason, under the subject "Bigger Business":

I discarded it. Forgot that.

I also packed a MIC, though.

That'd be nearly as good.

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:27:07 -0400: Don Fnordlioni wrote to Jason about his attack on the Robot Sea Monsters:

This is the best you can do?
If I throw in my Cthulhu token (making the roll a 10), he'll just counter with the Flouridators, bringing it down to a 5, which he can modify down to a 4 with W.I.T.C.H.

The investment doesn't seem like it'll have a very good return, is all. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought you figured the attack to actually have a chance in hell.

I'd like to help -- just tell me why I should bother with this horrible roll?

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:56:36 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

ack..I forgot about the WITCH.....but you give 9 pts of power, making it an 11, leaving me a 6, just a hair under 50 percent..and I've been rolling good...besides..I'm hoping a little that Thany will wake up...offer his token as well and put that in...we need to do something, else he WILL win on his next turn, and there will not be alot any of us can do to stop him..and you helping me now is better then waiting for your turn, when he'll have a chance to get plots to stop us and do something...destroying his secret is our best chance.

besides..the dice have been pretty hot for me..*grins*

and the 6 is only if he remembers his third secret group to defend with...memory is always something to hope for..:)

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:11:09 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Jason's message:

Whoops, that's right.

That's not quite so right -- 6, effectively a 5 with W.I.T.C.H., which is approx a 42%, effectively a 28%. Or something like that.

See if you can't wake up Thany.

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:19:51 -0700: Jason wrote to Thany, Cc'ing Don Fnordlioni:

Don and and I would like your assistance in destroying the nasty society. If we do not act, James WILL win on his next turn, and there will be little we can do to stop him.

Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:20:45 -0700: Jason replied to Don Fnordlioni's message:

Even if I don't wake him...a 28% chance is better then a 0, which is what we have if we DON'T stop him.

Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:33:51 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

Another good reason for helping me on the James attack

If you help me, boosting attack to 11, that will force james to spend in defense, costing him a token, and a plot..if he has to spend both FF and Witch to defend..he's down two tokens..

Either way, it makes it a very easy target for you and Glen to knock out your turn..:):)

consider this attack a chance, but a worthwhile one

Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:42:46 -0700: Jason wrote to Don Fnordlioni after Thany's contribution:

I'd still like your assistance in getting the RSM's you said..the 12 becomes a 7(6 with WITCH)...and you said you would assist with this destruction...

Glen is not likely to win on this turn, as he gets NO ATO, and no tokens to draw new plots to replace NWO' odds are pretty low he'd draw one he needs.

Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:49:11 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Well..I got Thany to wake I need to get Don to burn his token..if not..think you can afford to make two attacks against him (one to burn his murphy and action token and one to destroy him)..

heck..if he plays the murphy' could hat trick it..:)

Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:07:23 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You sure did. It worries me a little in some ways, but we just have to cope. Better to know he was going to wake up now, than to find out later.

Still, it should now be easier to get James to help me attack him, if I can muster enough points for that after tackling Don.

Nope. You need a "Stealing the Plans" for that.

Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:15:35 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Yeah...I gotta hope James spends his FF action token to try and stop the destruction, otherwise Don will not join in, and it doesn't have the multiple effects I'm hoping for.

If we can get Don to burn his Token on this attack, Taking out the Mossad will be easy as we have a set of +15 cards to use (ketchup and the agents)...+any one token you have worth 5 gives you a 10 privledged attack.'re right..:)

Sat, 30 Aug 1997 09:10:10 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

How confident are you that Don will join in?

Remember I have a lot of alignments in common with him. I might start with a privileged attack to control. If that succeeds, fine, if not, I'll probably use an Illuminati action with an attack to destroy. But I'll check my power structure first - it may be OK when it finally comes around.

Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:17:42 -0700: Jason responded to Glen's message:

Don promised me he would join in..if he doesn't, I'm going to make a feint attack to take over the Mossad Myself, prolly making him spend his token to stop me. That will free him of the token to make him an easy target for you....with the +8 I get to control the Mossad...unfort I don't get to make it privledged...

If James Defends, Don will probably still commit to give me the full range of tokens.

True...but an Illuminati Action, with Ketchup, with Agents, equals easy target..

Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:54:06 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason in response to Jason's successful roll:

Well, that's a damn good start on getting us another round.

Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:51:07 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Yeah..but Don broke his deal with him..looks like I'm gonna force him to spend that Illuminati Action token myself..hopefully you'll be able to help me with a little defense?

Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:59:41 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

w/o using the agents card, I can't make a powerful enough attack to control OR destroy the mossad.

All my tokens to control the Mossad=

4+4+1(the tokens)+4(gove allign)+8 (Isreals gift to control Mossad)-17=5

To Destroy Mossad:

4+5(for Ketchup)-4(gov allign)-10=-5

(I could add 3 more pts to that one..but...)


Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:10:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

With James? What was the deal?

As soon as I have action tokens, yep.

Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:17:00 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message: with spend his token.

Ok...the question is you need the agents card..if not..I can make him waste his token easily with the agents..otherwise..I'm not sure.

Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:35:16 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason: "Let me think on it."

Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:32:52 +1000 (E ): About an hour later, Glen wrote to Jason:

Here's my thoughts:

I can make an attack to control without it. If I'm going to make an attack to destroy, I'd need it, but I think you can make as good an attack to destroy as I could.

So if you want to use the Agents, go right ahead.

Best of luck.

Finland attacks to control the Mossad

Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:00:55 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason about his attack to control the Mossad:


What are you doing???

By not making a privileged attack, you could just be completely *wasting* the agents card - all he has to do is promise James (or Thany) something for some aid, and he still has his token. I understood from our previous conversations that you'd be using the Ketchup - an attack to destroy. (The fact that it is weaker is immaterial compared to the fact that it's *privileged*).


All I can hope is that James and Thany want him gone as much as we do, but I doubt it in James' case.

Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:31:05 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

well..actually...with what Ralph just pointed out to me (being that Don cannot murphy my attack)..I'm going to make sure James AND thany do NOT join in unless he spends that action token. All this attack is supposed to do is make him spend it..if he does..great..if big loss except for the agents.

If I had realized he couldn't play the murphy's beforehand..then yes..I would have blown it up with the privledging....I'll talk to James and Thany

Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:34:16 -0700: Jason wrote to James and Thany:

Please do not interfere with the attack against Don...I don't know what I can offer you to make sure you don't..but w/o him...we all stand a better chance of not losing groups to his chaotic...make him spend his own token to lower it to 0..then my other's will make it a 5...

Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:32:17 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

He can't? Why not? He has an Illuminati token and a Murphy's Law, doesn't he?

Well, you're right about that - worst case is no big loss.

What I was thinking was "What if Don says to James 'You put in some tokens, and I'll give you the Weather Sattelite'?". I don't see why James would say no.

Wed, 03 Sep 1997 09:01:20 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Ralph pointed out (in the UFAQ) that the action happens B4 he can murphy it, therefor he has no groups and is out b4 he can use the token.

I sent letters to both of them telling them to make him spend his own token in defense..that's all I'm trying for right now..if I get it..great..if'll have a free shot at a privledged attack to control.

Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:36:31 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Jason's message: "Ok."

Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:36:56 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen:

Thany will not get involved..*BIG EVIL GRIN*

now if I can make sure James won't (unless Don spends his token) then we have nothing to fear..:)

Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:13:37 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Aahh! *Now* I got you. This falls under the "cannot make itself legal" rule.

Well, now that I understand about the Murphy's Law, what you're doing is fine. (Sorry about getting all bothered over nothing.)

This is going to be interesting...

Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:27:02 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

It's ok..I didn't even know about the ruling until afterwards..:)

but even so..thany isn't gonna get involved.I haven't heard from james yet (but will assume he wouldn't mind one less opponent)

After he spends it. I need to decide if I even want to take the chance and spend my last 5 points..I probably should and hope for a good roll, save you the problem of having to knock him out, saving your attacks for someone else...*evil grin*

we'll make it interesting.

P.S..also thinking of playing my Bav I have as an agents card so that I have advantages against thany..thoughts?

Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:15:44 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You may want to hang on to some tokens if you can.

That we will.

That's a pretty damn good idea - but it isn't cheap to play... (" must discard your top undrawn Plot and Group cards").

However, the benefit is handy: "It gives you a +3 for attack or defense against that whole Power Structure!"

Yes, if you can afford your top plot and group, go for it, but if you're a bit short of groups in particular, it may be worth reconsidering.

You have to weigh up the benefits against the opportunity cost.

At least you can discard a plot back to your deck before you do it so you know what you'll lose.

Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:23:34 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Btw, Jason, I'd rather you took Don's group than me - we'll need my tokens to try and slow Thany down, and possibly James, though we might be OK with James.

One thing really worries me, though: If you are tokenless, what's to stop Thany doing a privileged attack to control on an arm of your power structure? We need to worry about that.

Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:23:04 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message: it's a tossup between trying to take the mossad by spending all my tokens and getting a 5 on it (that can be stopped by James with Witch if I only roll a 5)..or saving tokens...

I have an unmasked I can drop on top of my plot deck, and the Hammer of Thor I can put on my Group deck (as I'm not going for my Cthuhlu win anymore)..:):)

Yeah..I've been watching it...I'll wait till after the results on the attack.

Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:38:07 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's other message:

True...I wish he didn't have QUITE so many tokens left...though with those two groups that don't count for anything in his structure..he may try to get those fixed first...or we could just take them away from him or even destroy it, or use it as an excuse to go after him, (with the Ketchups I have, making him spend tokens could be fairly easy.

James is down to 9 groups now, so unless Magic goes away leaves...he'd have to do some serious work to make the groups he needs to win this turn, giving us another chance to either slow them down again, or go for the win ourselves (curse the no ATO's)

True, but then again..we may be able to convince him that James is a more powerful threat..I'm only at 8 groups, not really a threat..while James is at 9 and will be higher after his next turn.

be interesting to see who we can convince

Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:41:48 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

If we're determined to take out Don F, in the long run it may be better to spend the tokens, even though it's a little risky.

Sorry, but you can't put groups back on your group deck. Netrep ruling. I disagreed with it (arguing that the fact that the rules didn't say you could was just an oversight), but it's a firm ruling.

Thu, 04 Sep 1997 15:48:14 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

true..hrm....well..lets see what happens..I may be able to get James to spend a token to help me take it over..if I can prove I'm not a threat to his victory.though he may be upset at me for blowing up the RSM's..:)

Bummer...I don't remember what I have left in my group deck..or for that matter, how many cards are left in it..I know how many my plot deck has..and I dismantled my RL copy of this deck like 5 months ago because I'm building my 'churches of the world, unite' deck..:)

Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:14:08 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Thany may be a better source of aid than James - but I'm guessing.

Thu, 04 Sep 1997 16:17:36 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

True..but he's already agreed not to get involved..I'd have to sweeten the pot pretty good to get his help..:)...but you're right..he probably still has a grudge against Don..*cackles*

Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:18:54 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Is the power you have left in more than one token?

Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:55:32 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's answer:

You could offer him Hawaii perhaps. Say you can convince me to give it to you, and if he'll pay the transfer, you'll pass it to him.

That'll cost you Canada's token (if they have a free arrow).

Or, I guess I could give you Forgery...

Or, you could spend Canada & see what happens.

Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:03:55 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason about Don Fnordlioni's response:


Well, that's removed the token.

I'm really surprised he couldn't (or perhaps didn't try to) get James to defend him.

Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:09:08 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Heh..I wouldn't have..not without making him spend his own first...

curious..what are odds YOU could convince them that it's good to remove Don from the game..make them spend some tokens..coming from me may be a mute point..but from an impartial third party...might have some more weight..:)

Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:12:23 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's question:

I've got no chance with Thany. He is suspicious of anything I tell him. You might do better with him (though I can try if you like).

I'll try James right now, but I don't know how it'll go.

Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:14:02 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to James and Thany:

It might be very interesting if this attack succeeded.

What do you think?

Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:14:56 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

I just sent a very short message to them both. Depending on how they respond, I might be able to get some dialog going.

Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:33:14 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing James:

No comment.
(Except that one, of course.)
(And that one... oh, damn it.)

Sat, 6 Sep 1997 17:31:13 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Thany doesn't seem to want to even talk to me about it, but if he's promised not to interfere, that's hardly surprising.

Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:43:54 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Well, I had no response at all from James, and Thany just said "no comment". Perhaps Thany would consider something if you explore the possibility with him.

Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:27:02 -0700: Jason responded to Glen's message:

Hrm..James never did respond when I said don't interfere either..hrm...has he taken Thany's place for being quiet..:)

Thany probably said that because of what I sent him..:)

you wouldn't happen to have a +10 gov card would you?

Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:25:34 -0700: Jason wrote to Ralph, Cc'ing James: we go for more

Ralph: my sending

[color text deleted]

<England and Canada both assist in the takeover for 5 more points>


Any help with knocking Don out now would be appreciated as I'm leaving myself wide open...even 4 points would be helpful

Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:02:36 +1000 (E ): Glen responded to Jason's message:

Not on me. There might be one in my deck.

Most of my hand is exposed. Hang on and I'll see what else I've got (nothing interesting).

Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:22:03 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*'s ok..I was hoping for this attack, but for defense maybe later against james

I sent a message to James to see if he'd help..we'll see what happens

wish I had tokens left..but that stupid Magic goes away is messing with me..*growl*

Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:40:48 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Here's my hand:
Exposed: Forgery, Beach Party, Near Miss
Hidden: Hat Trick, Emergency Powers.

Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:45:10 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Hrm..damn...well..lets hope James doesn't go kill the net happy..:):)

if he doesn't..we'll probably get another turn. Canada is the most likely target for a takeover as it's my weakest defense...but we'll see...

Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:07:46 -0700: Jason wrote to James, quoting Ralph's announcement of Jason's failed roll:

I'm not sure, but I think he may be referring to you...I don't know what I could offer you to entice you into helping me succeed and removing Don from the game, leaving us more flexability as he would not be destroying us anymore....

Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:41:48 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen about his failed roll:

well..I made the effort..I don't think I'll be getting the help I need from the other two (if they even have it to give me)

oh Mossad..17 to control, 10 to destroy..:):)

If you want to priv destroy it..let me know and I'll give you a you your priv attack. many plots do I need to get rid of?

Ralph answered that Jason had to get rid of 4 plots once it was not his turn.

Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:52:33 +1000 (E ): Glen answered Jason's message:

Nope. If they were going to help, they'd have done it before the roll.

I may even try an unprivileged attack and see what happens. with all my bonuses, I might get them to waste a few tokens.

I think it's just 2. I can easily discard my Forgery if you need to give me one.

Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:18:27 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

actually it's four...and about the only one I have to offer you is a new blood if you want it for like LPD's or something....

I'll ditch the unmask and the illum..and then find another one.

Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:19:07 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason'smessage:

Could always put one of the Ketchups back in deck if you want, I guess.

Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:21:54 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

That would work...

Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:24:18 -0700: A few minute later, Jason replied again to Glen's message:

If you don't think you'll need both..I could do that..

Glen Barnett's Turn 5

history | hands | conspiracies | comments

Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:43:18 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason, quoting Ralph's announcement of the number of Plot cards in player's hands:

I'm *soo* stupid. We're stupid. Why on *earth* didn't I give you Clipper Chip last turn, before the attack on Don F.? Would have made your roll higher.


I can get to 63 power without much effort or real risk this turn. I can be at 50 and still give you 15 power (how can I give you 15 power when I'm only 13 up you ask? - again, the Clipper Chip); or I can give you maybe 4 groups. Assuming the attack on Don F comes off.

Neither of these get you a win, unfortunately - because you need a lot more than 15 power or 4 groups.

The only chance of that is if I draw Military-Industrial Complex. If it wasn't one of my face down discards, I ought to be able to draw at least 3 cards, which gives a reasonable chance of getting it.

If I draw it, I can get us both over 50, but I still need to take Don F out. The thing is, if I spend tokens on drawing cards, I'll be totally vulnerable if I don't go for the win.

I'll wait a couple of hours and then go for it.

Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:59:50 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Sorry, I guess you're not on yet. I've gone ahead and done it.

Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:13:30 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Don't worry about it. US weekends I don't have access to this e-mail account (no PPP access at home yet..only access from work)

if you have the win and can take it..go for it..just credit me for the assist..:):)...if you can get me there too, so much the better. But there is no reason for us to risk you being vulnerable to attacks...take the groups, get the power, draw the plots, and either boost me up or declare victory..I can handle either...

I see me having 38 pts of power if you can get rid of the current yellow NWO...not including the clipper chip (I may be miscounting..memory is fried this week due to my car being stolen last week)..not sure what number calculations you are working off of..but I won't argue with em..:):)

if you need the ketchup I have left, let me know, though if you are going for probably aren't gonna be blowing up anything..:):)

Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:35:05 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Let me apologise for the rambling nature of this message. I've been thinking out loud, and the more I think, the better it looks.

We may not need MIC at all.

I've just realised I can probably get you to of 50, assuming I take Mossad.

I'm just playing with the various possibilities, and I'll recheck my calculations. I've also been thinking about taking the Pentagon and undevastating it, but I don't think I'll have enough tokens to use the power to 6 cards and transfer groups to you in that circumstance.

I need to think some more on it, but we're pretty close to being able to pull it off. If you can see a way to scrounge a couple of points of power, let me know. I'm assuming 11 or 12 extra points from the two power to 6 cards at present. If you can see a way to get more, let me know.

Oh, I've just had a thought... I may already have the points required, I've been subtracting a couple of points twice (once when I give you the Clipper, once when I give you the group).

Let me work on it some more - you have a look too:

Remember, I have New Blood and Emergency Powers.

My current plan is to use them on LPDs, Brazil or BATF. Brazil and BATF should give me 12 power.

I'm about to ATO NASA (2 power). I'll probably use its token on Texas

Assume I take Mossad off Don, and that I give you the Clipper Chip and enough groups to take you to 50. I think it's best to give you only groups that are getting the benefit of the Clipper, and to give you the weakest of those that I can transfer.

It's just the actual sequence of what can spend what I'm still trying to get clear.

Hmm. let's say I do this (please check my calculations):

I'm currently 48 power, you're 31
ATO NASA off Illuminati (say)                  Power 2
BATF uses New Blood.               Its power goes up 6
Brazil uses Emergency Powers        "   "     "    " 6
Texas *privileged* attack to control Mossad
  10+8 vs 17 = 1. Add Illuminati =11          Power  5
NASA token to Texas

I'm on 67 power, with tokens on Bavaria, Texas, Local Police, and CIA - enough to launch another attack, or draw a couple of plots.

CIA passes itself to you   58 left
I give you Clipper Chip    50 left

You get 9 (CIA)+ 10 (other gov't) taking you to 50 also.

So the deal is: if the others do nothing to stop us, it's a joint victory. Otherwise, I do what I can to salvage a win myself. Fair enough?

Please check my calculations. There's no room for miscalculation!

Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:26:05 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Improved Analysis.

Please, check all this.

Ralph was correct, I have 48 Power.

Jason's power is 31 not 28. I was reading Canada's Resistance as its Power (it's sitting right under Israel's Power, and I just read straight down).

However, I have conjured up 4 more power in total, so we still end up OK.

                            My Power           Jason's Power
          Current              48                    28
          ATO NASA             50                    28
          Move Necronomicon
           to Local Police (!) 48                    28
          Emergency Powers 
           on Brazil           54                    28
          New Blood on
           Local Police        64                    28
           Texas + CIA take
           Mossad (at 10*)     69                    28
          NASA's token to TX   69                    28
          BATF moves to Jason
           (own token)         63 (it loses 2 power) 32
          Mossad to Jason
           (Texas' token **)   58 (it loses 2 power) 35
          NASA to Jason        
           (Illuminati Token)  56 (it loses 2 power) 35
          Clipper to Jason *** 50    (adds 16 power) 51

  * Texas(10) + Alignments(8) + CIA(9) - Res(7) - Proximity(10) = 10
    Note that Bavaria's token is available if he has a +10 card.

 ** I might use Mossad's special ability first, to draw a plot
    in the search for MIC, and look at the bottom before I do.

*** This is free, and I only lose 6 power because I have only 3 Govt

Unless they have another Red NWO, or a cancel card, we have only 1/12 chance of not getting there.

I should double check the Power structures at the end. I believe they are:

Jason Bostick:
The Network ( ) [Power 8/8]
        1: Finland ( ) [Power 6, Res 5, LGcon]
        2: England ( , ) [Power 6/2, Res 6, Ghon]
                {Emergency Powers}
                1: NASA ( ) [Power 2, Res 4, Gs]  (assuming it goes here)
        3: Russia ( ) [Power 9, Res 4, VGhon]
                {New Blood}
                1: Israel ( ) [Power 6/3, Res 8, VGon]
                2: Mossad ( ) [Power 5/1, Res 7, VG] (assuming it goes here)
                3: BATF ( ) [Power 6, Res 2, VG]       (ditto)
        4: Canada ( ) [Power 3, Res 4, PLGhgon]

Unlinked Resources:
Clipper Chip []

Destroyed Pile:
Robot Sea Monsters [Power 1/1, Res 6, Vric]

Glen Barnett:
Bavarian Illuminati (*, ) [Power 10/10]
   {Perpetual Motion Machine [UAG]}
        1: Texas ( ) [Power 8, Res 9, GVCho]
                1: Local Police Departments ( ) [Power 12, Res 4, SVC]
	                {Necronomicon [UMA]}
                        {New Blood}
                2: C.I.A. ( ) [Power 7/4, Res 5, GV]
        2: Brazil ( ) [Power 13, Res 3, GVhon]
                {Big Prawn [UG]}
                {Emergency Powers}
        3: Hawaii ( ) [Power 0, Res 2, Oo]

Unlinked Resources:
Soulburner [UMG]

Exposed plots:
Near Miss
Beach Party

(Note that Glen meant 'Jason's power is 28, not 31.')

Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:21:40 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

if he had had the +10, he would have used it to defend against me, saving the token for later use.

*nods* should have the tokens left, but you may want those for defense..Thany and James will probably go for drawing plots, as I doubt they have anything particularly powerful out for WITCH.


Unless they have another Red NWO, or a cancel card, we have only 1/12 chance of not getting there.

if they do have a red NWO, they will prolly play it now, before you ATO, or right after you take Mossad, which would push you over 50

and the MIC would counteract losing the red NWO, so thats a possability

and most canceling cards require an illuminati action (most at least) and I burned all of those (I'm SO mean)..:):)


Sounds like we have an explosive win..if you cannot get me into the joint..go ahead for the single reason to stop you from getting it.

Good Luck

Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:21:13 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Yeah, you're right about WITCH. It reduces the chance to 10/12. I still like those odds.

Hopefully no *other* roll changers can come into play.

Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:31:11 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

those are GOOD odds..

There aren't very many that can be played without Illuminati Action tokens are there?..I don't have an INWO book handy..have one at home..just not one here..:)

If there out there..I doubt that the person who could play them has them IN hand, and would have to spend tokens to get them, then may not have enough to power it..I can't think of any cards offhand though

Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:30:34 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Do you have any strong suggestions about the order in which I proceed?

Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:36:59 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

I think the list you showed it as is probably the best...just work you're way down it and hope we can make it through

Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:05:50 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Can I ask for your Ketchup please?

I want to do something with it (not actually use it, but I might have to expose it). I think I might be able to use it to get Thany or James to try and draw earlier, or maybe I can even play them off against each other.

At the very least it'll cause a bit of chaos.

You can't give it to me yet, unless Ralph will let it slip in before the Privileged Attack [Ralph? Could he do that?].

What do you think?

Ralph gave his permission for the gift to be made before Glen's attack.

Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:36:09 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

Not a problem...Give glen the Ketchup..:)

just don't use it on me..*grins*...

Texas attacks to control Mossad

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:10:11 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason:

Rather than use my extra Illuminati token to draw a card in the hope of getting a NWO to offset one from the 4 that these guys can draw, maybe I should launch an attack on Pentagon. I make it at 2 if he spends no tokens, but then he's got to worry about me having Bribery, so I expect that he'll spend at least 1 token, reducing the plots drawn by 1...

I may be better off with yet another deal... I could offer not only not to attack him, but to *discard* the Ketchup if he tosses either of his power 3 tokens, a binding deal. I can then still draw my card.

AFAIK, we can discard stuff even during a privileged attack, which opens up an interesting thought for say a Bavaria and another Illuminati working together - they other player can pass Bavaria cards by discarding them, and Bavaria picking them up (say with Stealing the Plans). Unlikely to be useful very often, but an interesting thought nonetheless.

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:11:12 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Thany:

Looking at the way the game is situated, the Pentagon is the obvious place for me to use Ketchup is a Vegetable, I can mount a reasonably powerful attack on it, and you can mount a pretty powerful defence. This option would suit me fine, as it does what I need it to.

However, I have an alternate offer that may leave us both with just a little more protection; I'm prepared not to use it to attack you if you'll discard the token from the AMA (I'm prepared to discuss other choices).

In fact, I'll go one better - I'll even discard the Ketchup at the same time.

I'll be throwing both my opportunity for another privileged attack *and* a +5 bonus, which is not bad for one token.

I'll even make the first move if you agree to do it.

If you don't do it, it's no great loss to me, though. I just thought I'd save us both a token or 2 over the alternative.

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:17:00 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

The problem is the theory that maybe they already have the NWO in hand and are waiting to see where you go before playing it, though they probably would have done that already...

shame I didn't have my other ketchup still. You could run that deal, then still nail him with the other one..*evil grin*...not interesting to consider. It's really up to how you think it would work best.

Hrm..that is interesting...I may have to remember that..not that I have anything you'll want.

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:28 -0500 (CDT): Thany replied to Glen's message:


Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:49:03 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Jason about Thany's discard of the A.M.A.'s action token, under the subject line "I don't believe it!":

Wow! I guess if you try enough wacky schemes, eventually one works.

I am not sure why that worked. James wouldn't have gone along, I'm pretty sure.

The only thing I can think of is that he's got nothing to draw anyway.

If that's true, it's handy to know.

Well, that's one less hostile card draw to worry about.

(Ralph's hypothesis is that Thany wasn't remembering that he could spend action tokens to draw Plots, though it is also true that Thany didn't have anything worthwhile to draw.)

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:57:21 +1000 (E ): Glen wrote to Don Fnordlioni:

I'm sorry to take you out of the game like that. I've never done that before.

I just needed that Mossad.

Well, if everything else goes to plan, this will be the last turn anyway, not that it's much consolation for you.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:09:25 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Always possible that they have one already, but unlikely - they could have made me spend at least another action token in the attack, or take a much huge risk of failing. The fact that they didn't gives me some hope.

Thing is, I'd prefer to keep my plot draw. The best I can get the roll to (and stick to our plan) is 2. He then spends a token to take it to -1, and still draws one plot. I can't even get the roll to 2 against James. I think we've got everything out of this little scheme that we were going to.

And I don't have Stealing the Plans or anything else that would pick up a discard. You'd just about have to be working together, in which case why wouldn't they pass you stuff just before the attack... (Unless you were the target of the attack, perhaps.)

I see this more as a curiosity than a real tactic, but maybe there's a Dirty Trick lurking in there.

Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:21:18 EDT: Ralph replied to Glen's message, Cc'ing Jason:

Except, of course, that they couldn't play NWOs during Privileged attacks.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:27:08 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Ralph's message, Cc'ing Jason:

He's got me there.

I don't know why I have this problem, the rules are specific enough.

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:08:02 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

I know why I's cause not alot of these things come up in the few games I get to play...this game has shown me more loops and stuff then I was aware of and will help me in future games.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:10:03 -0400: Don Fnordlioni replied to Glen's message:

No problem.
An interesting cycle of events, I must say.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:54:23 -0700: Jason wrote to Glen: this by me one more time

you have 70 power now..I have exactly were you thinking of making the switches to get the joint victory..

if've got a solid I don't think they can stop you win..:)

Wed, 24 Sep 97 17:15:05 EDT: Ralph commented to Glen and Don Fnordlioni on Don Fnordlioni's message:

Frankly, I don't think Glen should be *that* remorseful about taking Don Fnordlioni out of the game--not only does it push Glen further ahead, it also gives Glen complete protection from nasty cards that Don Fnordlioni might have. Since Don Fnordlioni has been a major provider of nasty cards, this is fairly significant.

Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:15:41 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

You're wondering how 98 power turns into 50+50? I did explain it in my messages when I describe the strategy. It happens because you started the turn with one more government group than I had, and I give you as many government groups as I took over. So when I give you the clipper chip, you get more power than I lose.

I thought it was 69 at this point. I'd better double check everything before I start handing stuff over.

Indeed I do have a fairly solid win, but in fact they can stop me easily if they have the right NWO or NWOs.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:27:23 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

right...I just kept calculating and recalculating..and it always came up just off...I think I got it all straight after I send it, including going back through my files and finding the count file you's just so much number crunching it'd make anyone's head spin..:):)

I may have miscounted..but yeah..double check..

they would have to play several, and probably a deasil engine in addition to really stop you from winning....and if they do..I hope I've slowed James down enough to stop him..if's over on his turn.

Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:38:58 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

It can get a bit tricky, which is why I recorded the whole thing step by step - easier to find errors, easier to avoid new ones.

It'd be a real bummer if I ended up on 49 or something.

Consider another "Magic Goes Away", remembering that the Local Police will lose 6 power when it happens, and most of my groups will lose 3. I think that costs me 21 power, assuming I haven't forgotten a group.

This is why I'm trying harder to get them to tip their hands early, but it won't happen. I thought perhaps convincing Thany to lose a plot draw might make James (who I'm worried about) go for his.

Thany is more likely to have NWOs that will help me, so he's much less of a worry.

Once I transfer the groups over, of course a wider variety of single NWOs will be sufficient.

Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:52:49 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*...yep..I agree.

right..because if you passed just one pt to'd be a problem

I couldn't picture him playing another of those. I knocked him down by 2 groups, so without an ATO, he wouldn't be able to win (more then likely)

I'd picture something that wouldn't add or anything..but that would be like austrailian rules or Peace in our time..something that won't help alot of people, but then..with the deck he's playing..I can't see him doing that.

I could see James maybe playing 'visualize world peas,' but that would help us instead of harm us (give our gov groups all +2 power)...but I can't really think of something that would help him that would harm us..basically...any other yellow NWO is going to help us..except maybe global warming...but we've already lost power..I don't think even smash the states would hurt us much I can't think of any negative ones, other then magic..and I can't picture him playing another of those this late in the game...


yeah..but then..James has alot of power..he may play 'visualize' and try to play power for it's own sake with us for all we know.:)

Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:25:33 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

He'd still play one to stop me if he had it. He won't need an ATO if he can take a whole arm off you or I.

He and Thany together could easily do that.

Peace in Our Time + World Hunger, perhaps?

There's also the blue NWO's that might hurt us.

Once I've given you cards, it's not that hard to take us down a few points.

Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:44:50 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

that is true..and we're both pretty spread out and w/o I said..if we don't win, james is pretty sure to win.

that combo would..yes

True, but if they do, keep your illuminati action token, and we'll spend it to move russia back to you, giving you the groups you need to win.

Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:28:30 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's message:

Two problems with that.

1) If they do it after we declare victory, we can't move groups back, because groups can only move in phase 5. Resources I'm not so sure, I'd better check.
2) I just spent my token. :(

Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:09:32 -0700: After their declarations of victory, Jason wrote to Glen, under the subject "V.I.C.T.O.R.Y.":

that's the illuminatied Battle Cry..*grins*

I wonder what the honest odds are of these two pulling something off and actually stopping us....did you happen to draw anything that is useful in helping us?

Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:37:53 +1000 (E ): Glen replied to Jason's question:


My bottom plot was a Conservative +10. I forget what I actually drew (I can look it up if you want), but it won't be any help to us.

Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:43:51 -0700: Jason replied to Glen's message:

*nods*..was just curious...well..lets hope for the best..:)

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Ralph Melton <>