Please add to contacts

-----Original Message-----
From: LGras91577@aol.com [mailto:LGras91577@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 8:18 AM
To: Corman, Shelley
Subject: Fwd: PAKK: Digest Number 529


Shelley,
I don't know if you've joined this group or not, but I they had some 
informative posts about Adoption Discounted airfare, and Taraz and I thought 
you might like to read it.

Liz

--------- Inline attachment follows ---------

From:  <pakk@yahoogroups.com>
To: pakk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:27:01 GMT
Subject: 

Have some adorable pictures of your child you'd like to share????  Create a FAMILY FOLDER for your family and upload pictures of your child for other PAKK members to see.  It's simple and easy!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: HIV Testing and Russia
           From: adopt101@aol.com
      2. re-introduction
           From: "Martha Szufnarowski" <mjliberty@hotmail.com>
      3. Accomodations in Kaz
           From: adopt101@aol.com
      4. Re: Re: HIV Testing and Russia
           From: crowsnestfive@cs.com
      5. Travel discounts
           From: "Patty Panni" <wiai@usit.net>
      6. Re: Accomodations in Kaz
           From: ckeilin@alltel.net
      7. Re: Re: HIV Testing and Russia
           From: bbrierefamily@juno.com
      8. Accommodations in Kaz
           From: "McCarthy" <LynnMcCarthy1@mediaone.net>
      9. Taraz
           From: ln@hovac.com
     10. 
           From: "Stephen Smith" <SDKsmith@worldnet.att.net>
     11. Re: HIV Testing and Russia
           From: dazzle@gte.net
     12. Mistaken Posts
           From: adopt101@aol.com
     13. birth dates
           From: "Annie Jamaca" <anniejamaca@hotmail.com>
     14. Re: birth dates
           From: "James McKay" <MCKAYJ@OJP.USDOJ.GOV>
     15. Re: Taraz
           From: peevedone@AOL.COM
     16. RE: birth dates
           From: Gavin Helf <ghelf@eurasia.org>
     17. Re: birth dates
           From: adopt101@aol.com
     18. RE: birth dates
           From: ln@hovac.com
     19. Re: Taraz
           From: "The Kesslers" <THE.KESSLERS@prodigy.net>
     20. Bio - new member
           From: Vanessa Weber <weetobe@yahoo.com>
     21. Re: birth dates
           From: adopt101@aol.com
     22. Birth date adjustments
           From: "McCarthy" <LynnMcCarthy1@mediaone.net>
     23. Re: birth dates
           From: "T/J Klafehn" <tjklafehn@prodigy.net>
     24. Re: birth dates
           From: adopt101@aol.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:29:26 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Re: HIV Testing and Russia

>>...here is the State Dept's Foreign travel requirements section for 
Kaz, showing a different HIV requirement!<<

Any idea what the Russian laws are with respect to HIV testing?  We 
were not asked to show proof of HIV testing to obtain Kaz visas or 
anytime (to our knowledge) that we were in Kaz.  However, we were 
asked by the consular staff at the Russian Embassy in DC to show proof 
before they would issue our visas.  It took three trips to the Russian 
Embassy to get our visas -- so it's possible the guy was just giving 
me the run-around -- but I'd be curious to know what the law says 
since Kaz families must return via Moscow.





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:55:13 -0400
   From: "Martha Szufnarowski" <mjliberty@hotmail.com>
Subject: re-introduction

Hello,
We are John Shalhoup and Martha Szufnarowski, we live in Orange Cty, CA, and 
we hosted a 6 year old girl from Kaz through Kidsave this summer.  We have a 
bio daughter who is 4 and looking forward to having a sister!

We completed our homestudy through Family Connections and our int'l agency 
is HATO.  We are now playing the waiting game and excited to get our 
invitation to Kaz!

Thanks!


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:33:52 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Accomodations in Kaz

A new thread on accomodations in Kazakhstan was proposed by one of our 
newer PAKK members.  She's traveling soon and wondered what the 
options are for accomodations.  She specifically asked about the pros 
and cons of staying with a local host family versus "renting" an 
apartment or staying in a hotel.  If you've already traveled to Kaz -- 
please share your experiences with the list!





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:06:13 EDT
   From: crowsnestfive@cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: HIV Testing and Russia

Go to the State Dept's web site -- it's all there.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:06:44 -0500
   From: "Patty Panni" <wiai@usit.net>
Subject: Travel discounts

Hi All,

For those planning to travel to Kazakhstan in the near future, here is some
info we received about airfares from Travel-On.

Patty Panni
Williams International Adoptions

----- Original Message -----

>                                FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> NEW ADOPTION AIRFARES TO RUSSIA AND KAZAKHSTAN
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                             Beltsville, MD
>
> Travel-On, the worldwide official travel agency for Kidsave
> International (http://www.kidsave.org), announced today that it has
> successfully negotiated a new adoption airfare contract with Delta
> Airlines for adopting parents traveling to Russia and Kazakhstan.
>
> The new contract, effective October 10, 2001, offers airfares at 70%
> off the normal, UNRESTRICTED, published round trip airfares for adult
> travel and 50% off the adult airfare for adopted children returning
> with their new parents to the US.  The new airfares are available from
> all US cities served by Delta Airlines.
>
> The new contract airfares specifications:
>
> Travel period:                               Oct 15, 01 - May 31, 02
> Day of Week Application:                      EVERYDAY
> Advances Purchase Requirement:       NONE
> Change Penalties:                                  NONE
> Refundable:                          YES with NO PENALTY
> Surcharges:                                             NONE
> Open Return Dates:                                YES
> Minimum Stay:                                        NONE
> Restricted Inventory:                               NONE
>
> These new contract fares are exclusively available through
> Travel-On.
>
> For a free airfare quotation and/or reservations, please contact
> Travel-On
> 9000 Virginia Manor Road
> Suite 201
> Beltsville, MD 20705
> Local Phone: 240-387-4110
> Toll Free Phone: 877-657-4772
> E-Mail:  jennieh@tvlon.com
> Web site: http://www.tvlon.com/adoption.html
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:11:28 -0000
   From: ckeilin@alltel.net
Subject: Re: Accomodations in Kaz

--- In pakk@y..., adopt101@a... wrote:
> A new thread on accomodations in Kazakhstan was proposed by one of 
our 
> newer PAKK members.  She's traveling soon and wondered what the 
> options are for accomodations.  She specifically asked about the 
pros 
> and cons of staying with a local host family versus "renting" an 
> apartment or staying in a hotel.  If you've already traveled to Kaz 
-- 
> please share your experiences with the list!

We stayed in a hotel during our stay in our son's adoption city and 
then had an apartment during our stay in Almaty.  We personally loved 
having an apartment - it was "our time" with our son - we were able 
to start being a family and doing family things - playing, cooking, 
cleaning, etc.  Our life began together immediately - I think (and I 
don't know, since we didn't do this) if you were with a host family - 
it would put a different twist on the situation.  Not saying good or 
bad - just different.  Kind of like when you visit someone and stay at 
their house vs renting a hotel room.  You can be more "open" when you 
are with your own family.

Best wishes on your adoption journey. :)

Cyndi



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:22:22 -0400
   From: bbrierefamily@juno.com
Subject: Re: Re: HIV Testing and Russia

I find all of this very interesting.  We traveled in June of this year
and didn't have the HIV test done.  The only thing that we had read was
that we needed the HIV only if we would be there more than 3 months.  No
one ever asked us for the results in Kazakhstan or Russia, thankfully!

Debbie



On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:29:26 -0000 adopt101@aol.com writes:
However, we were asked by the consular staff at the Russian Embassy in DC
to show proof before they would issue our visas.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:36:20 -0400
   From: "McCarthy" <LynnMcCarthy1@mediaone.net>
Subject: Accommodations in Kaz

I'd like to share the experience we had in Karaganda.  We stayed with a family in a small apartment adjacent to their own apartment.  It was a wonderful way to get our new son used to family life as well as have Russian speakers nearby to ease the transition to living with English-only speakers.

The particular family we stayed with consisted of a grandmother (retired schoolteacher) who was there ALL the time.  Babushka cooked all our meals as well and she and I became close friends even though she spoke only Russian and I only English.  The father was an engineer by training but was currently doing much of the document running necessary for the adoptions processed by our facilitator.  The mother was an ear/nose/throat doctor and there were 2 children (17 year old boy who spoke wonderful English and acted as our translator - for a fee of course - and his 10 year old sister).
    I would encourage anyone who has the option of staying with a family to do so.  It helps to see how families live over there as well as observe first hand how food is served.  They eat the same sorts of food we see all the time here but serve it differently.  That knowledge alone was wonderful to have when our son first came back.  I fixed the food in the manner he was accustomed to seeing it served.  He now eats the way we do (big plates and cooked in our way) and he's been back since 1 March this year.
            Lynn McCarthy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:17:18 GMT
   From: ln@hovac.com
Subject: Taraz

Hello.

Has anyone on this list adopted (or in the process of adopting) from Taraz? I 
would really like some information about it. Please feel free to respond 
privately if necessary.

Thanks.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:37:18 -0700
   From: "Stephen Smith" <SDKsmith@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 

Hi Everyone!

The tantrums just crack me up because of their similarities.  Of course, that's cuz we havent had one here in a week.  But, it is so typical for our kids to be "set off" by something that seems so simple, and then they end up hating themselves (I call it a "hate fest") and being self abusive.  Karly has told me during her tantrums that she is going to run away or kill herself, and she hits herself too.  How Kaz of her....yet her therapist says she's processing everything well and doesn't need to be seen every week.  But, it still is a worry for the future.....  


Here's a question.  If the kids are tantrumming and abusing themselves, doesn't that show guilt and self hatred?  Even though Kira doesn't feel bad about drinking the soda, doesn't she feel bad for doing a wrong thing?  Is the problem that she doesn't feel bad for hurting and disappointing the family?  Is this just misplaced guilt?

Here is an idea (and it is just an idea) about the conscience thing. The current behavioral theory with "normal" children is to discipline and consequence inappropriate behaviors without expressing anger, so kids don't feel shame or guilt.  So, would a way of teaching guilt include the parent sharing feelings of sadness and disappointment at the behavior?For instance, when Kira is calmed down, or at a later time, can you share your sadness that she lied to you?Can you on a regular basis model different feelings (it is totally hard for me NOT to model anger and frustration).  Just an idea.  

What do the professionals who you all are working say about conscience?    



Shannon, just once in a while, Karly has a positive feeling about her first family (such as when her birth parent bought her koolaid-wow there's a real  great parent, huh).  Anyway, I point at that it's good that at least she has ONE good memory about her, but when she begins sentimentalizing (?!) she is reminded that the nice kool aid lady also left her alone for hours, beat her, screamed at her and cut her with a knife.  This way, I figure she has a balanced perspective....

See you all later,

Denise




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:50:33 -0000
   From: dazzle@gte.net
Subject: Re: HIV Testing and Russia

--- In pakk@y..., bbrierefamily@j... wrote:
> we needed the HIV only if we would be there more than 3 months. 
 
> Debbie

I have been trying to check out the requirements for Russian Visa's 
and Kazakhstan Visa's with several of the agencies that assist people 
in getting their visa's.  For both Russia and Kazakhstan, I have only 
found that it is required if you are planning to stay over 3 months.  

I wonder if it once was required for all traveling but is no longer??
Lisa A 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:12:19 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Mistaken Posts

One of our list members mistakenly sent a reply to the PAKK list that 
was intended for another list.  

If you find yourself in this situation, and feel the post needs to be 
removed from the PAKK archives, please feel free to go into the 
MESSAGE archive on the PAKK home page and remove the message yourself. 

The Web address is:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pakk

You must be a registered yahoogroups user in addition to being a PAKK 
subscriber.

Once you are at the PAKK home page, simply click on the MESSAGE link 
along the left-hand side of the page, locate your message, open the 
message, and click on DELETE.  You are ONLY permitted to delete 
messages posted from YOUR email address.

If you have concerns about a message posted by another PAKK member 
that you feel needs to be removed from the archive, please either 
contact the originator of that post with a request that s/he remove it 
OR contact me or Suzanne Baker and we can delete it.

Laura



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:30:42 -0000
   From: "Annie Jamaca" <anniejamaca@hotmail.com>
Subject: birth dates

My husband and I are discussing the pro's and con's of changing our 
soon-to-be-sons birthdate back a year.  He turned 8 in May 2001, and 
is JUST starting school in Kazakhstan.  When he comes home, I'd like 
to get him into second grade after a few months of english at home, 
home-bonding and home-schooling.  My husband wants to take away the 
stigma of him being older - but I don't want to "lie" (for lack of 
better words) to him about his birth date.  So, I'm leaning against 
it, but he, of course, is leaning towards it.  Thoughts anyone?

Smiles,  Annie



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:34:14 -0400
   From: "James McKay" <MCKAYJ@OJP.USDOJ.GOV>
Subject: Re: birth dates

I am all for "turning the clock ahead."  You can always skip a grade when they catch up and excell!

Thank you,

Jim McKay

>>> anniejamaca@hotmail.com 10/16/01 04:30PM >>>
My husband and I are discussing the pro's and con's of changing our 
soon-to-be-sons birthdate back a year.  He turned 8 in May 2001, and 
is JUST starting school in Kazakhstan.  When he comes home, I'd like 
to get him into second grade after a few months of english at home, 
home-bonding and home-schooling.  My husband wants to take away the 
stigma of him being older - but I don't want to "lie" (for lack of 
better words) to him about his birth date.  So, I'm leaning against 
it, but he, of course, is leaning towards it.  Thoughts anyone?

Smiles,  Annie


Have some adorable pictures of your child you'd like to share????  Create a FAMILY FOLDER for your family and upload pictures of your child for other PAKK members to see.  It's simple and easy! 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:42:34 EDT
   From: peevedone@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Taraz

Since Taraz seems to be the topic of conversation for so many right now, I 
decided to post directly to the list in hopes that I can share our experience.

We adopted our son, now 3 from Taraz in August of 2000 using Kids First/Frank 
Foundation.  

In answer to alot of your questions, We flew through New Yorks JFK to Moscow, 
that flight was 10 hours long and we arrived in Moscow in mid morning and 
were brought to a hotel close to the airport to eat and rest.  Our flight to 
Almaty left at 11pm.  We arrived in Almaty after a 3 hour time difference and 
I believe the flight was about 3 hours as well, so it was about 4am Almaty 
time.  Once we got our luggage and made it through customs to our 
coordinator, the sun was just coming up.  We then went to her flat to rest 
some more and eat breakfast.  (Although it seems like we had alot of time to 
rest, it was worth it to lay down as much as possible and relax to help us 
adjust to the time change)  We then went to the bank to get money that had 
been wired to us and then got our tickets for the train ride for that night. 
 I believe we got to the train station about 5pm for the train to leave about 
6pm.  We had our own cabin that had 2 padded benches with clean linens, 
plenty of pillows, a table and a window.  We were able to store our luggage 
under the bences.  The door to our cabin locked from the inside and we felt 
completely safe the entire time.  We took alot of video footage of the towns 
we went through.  There were people that would try to sell stuff at each of 
the stops.  Everything from bottled water to fried chicken.  The bathrooms 
were not the greatest on the train, but when you have to go, you take what 
you can get, although they were better than any port-a-potty I have ever been 
into here in the states.  Although I didn't visit other areas on the train, 
one of the people we were traveling with did and said you will see all sorts 
of people that are in non-private cars, but nobody ever bothered us.

We arrived at the Taraz train station around 4am and were met by the driver 
of the orphanage with his van.  We were brought to our host families flat to 
get settled and then went to the orphanage to meet our son.  Each day we were 
able to visit the bobek for about 3 hours in the morning and 2-3 hours in the 
afternoon.  Our court experience was short and non-eventful.  We were able to 
have dinner with the orphanage director at a restraunt by her flat.  We were 
able to go to the store everyday for bottled,noncarbonated water (and beer 
too)  We also visited the internet cafe which is just down the street from 
the telecom building.  It was very inexpensive.  We ate at a few restraunts 
in Taraz as well and never got sick.  One gentleman got sick from drinking 
some bad vodka, but said it was just like he drank something that didn't 
agree with him, he vomited once and was fine. 

The train ride back to Almaty left about the same time and we had no worries 
with our son.  We made a bed for him on the floor between our benches and he 
slept the entire time.  Another couple I know, made a bed for their infant in 
their small suitcase ontop of their clean clothes so the child wouldn't roll 
around.

One thing I can't express enough was the CHILDRENS CHEWABLE DRAMAMINE!  It is 
perfect and the last thing you want is a vomiting toddler on the plane.  It 
is messy and awful.

Also take lots of pictures!  While putting together my sons scrapbook of our 
journey to get him, I realized I hadn't taken pictures of things that now are 
important.

If you have any questions, feel free to email me.

God Bless and good luck.

Jennifer
Blakes Mom
b. 5/19/98
a. 8/31/00
Taraz, KZ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:16:25 -0400
   From: Gavin Helf <ghelf@eurasia.org>
Subject: RE: birth dates

We gave our youngest a two year "discount" -- which actually puts her in the
50th percentile on weight and height.  We explained it to her as the fact
that she was getting some of the years she spent in the orphanage back.

This was one of the best decisions we made early on.

Gavin Helf, Ph.D.
Director of Grant Programs
The Eurasia Foundation 
1350 Connecticut Avenue N.W., Suite 1000
Washington, D.C. 20036
(202) 234-7370, ext. 129
(202) 234-7377
ghelf@eurasia.org


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Annie Jamaca [mailto:anniejamaca@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:31 PM
> To: pakk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: PAKK: birth dates
> 
> 
> My husband and I are discussing the pro's and con's of changing our 
> soon-to-be-sons birthdate back a year.  He turned 8 in May 2001, and 
> is JUST starting school in Kazakhstan.  When he comes home, I'd like 
> to get him into second grade after a few months of english at home, 
> home-bonding and home-schooling.  My husband wants to take away the 
> stigma of him being older - but I don't want to "lie" (for lack of 
> better words) to him about his birth date.  So, I'm leaning against 
> it, but he, of course, is leaning towards it.  Thoughts anyone?
> 
> Smiles,  Annie
> 
> 
> Have some adorable pictures of your child you'd like to 
> share????  Create a FAMILY FOLDER for your family and upload 
> pictures of your child for other PAKK members to see.  It's 
> simple and easy! 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
   Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:17:56 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Re: birth dates

>>My husband and I are discussing the pro's and con's of changing our 
soon-to-be-sons birthdate back a year.<<

We held each child back 1 year in school from their American age 
peers, but did NOT change their actual birthdates.

Initially, I felt strongly that we should change their birthdates by 
1 year -- but Jackson felt VERY strongly that we should not.  His 
logic was that after we opted to change their Russian and Kazak 
names -- the only "thing" they brought with them from Kaz was their 
birthdates.

The school district initially placed a GREAT deal of pressure on us 
to place them with their age peers, but we resisted and basically 
demanded that they be placed back 1 year -- which was within our 
rights to do -- although the school district tried to convince us 
otherwise.  They kept telling us that ESL would catch the kids up 
soon enough -- but given the fact that neither child had much formal 
education, we didn't feel starting them in 2nd and 4th grade was in 
their best interest.

So, although our kids were 8 and 10 years old when they came home in 
April of 2000, we started them off in 1st and 3rd grade.  The kids 
then attended 1st and 3rd grade summer school -- and we moved them on 
to 2nd and 4th grade in September 2000, just over 4 months after they 
came home.  

Academically and socially, they were really still about a year behind 
their classmates, maybe more, when they started 2nd and 4th grade 
last year -- but by the end of the school year they were almost 
working at grade level and were nearly on par socially with their 
classmates.

In terms of their sizes, which was a MAJOR driver behind holding them 
back 1 year -- I would say they were about in the middle of their 
classes in terms of their heights and weights when they started 
school.  HOWEVER, after being home for 16 months -- BOTH kids were at 
the 60th percentile for height for their AGES -- making them two of 
the tallest kids in their grades.

I don't have the exact figures on how much they grew -- but we know 
that in the first 18 months after Nicholas left the orphanage he grew 
more than 7 inches and Kira grew more than 6 inches and gained 11 
pounds the first year home.

We did initially consider holding them back 2 years from their age 
peers when they came home -- but we are VERY, VERY glad now that we 
didn't do that.  If we had held them back 2 grades instead of just 
one BOTH kids would have TOWERED over the other kids right now.  
Academically they would have been better off, but socially it would 
have been disasterous.  As it is now, the kids look noticeably bigger 
than many of their classmates -- which is incredible given how small 
they were compared to most of the other kids when they came home.

Anyway, this is what we did....

Laura



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
   Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:34:23 GMT
   From: ln@hovac.com
Subject: RE: birth dates


> We gave our youngest a two year "discount" -- which actually puts her in the
> 50th percentile on weight and height.  We explained it to her as the fact
> that she was getting some of the years she spent in the orphanage back.
> This was one of the best decisions we made early on.



This is something that I have also considered for the child that I intend to 
adopt, in order to put her on a more even level with her "peers" here. She just 
turned 6, but is about the size of a 3 1/2 year old.

As far as I know, she has not gotten any formal schooling yet where she is, 
even though she would be in Kindergarten or 1st grade here by now. I want her 
to have every advantage to get the most out of her experiences in life, and 
feel that she will be best served by allowing her to be the "same age" as other 
children that are closer to her size and developmental level.





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:33:45 -0400
   From: "The Kesslers" <THE.KESSLERS@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Taraz

We have been home from Taraz for 6 months now, and I have traveled there
twice.  Would be happy to answer any questions....I'm out of town until
Sunday though

Kristin in Va
Saule - 11 years old from Taraz
Kate (10) and Ellis (8) homegrown

----- Original Message -----
From: <ln@hovac.com>
To: <pakk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 2:17 PM
Subject: PAKK: Taraz


> Hello.
>
> Has anyone on this list adopted (or in the process of adopting) from
Taraz? I
> would really like some information about it. Please feel free to respond
> privately if necessary.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Have some adorable pictures of your child you'd like to share????  Create
a FAMILY FOLDER for your family and upload pictures of your child for other
PAKK members to see.  It's simple and easy!
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Vanessa Weber <weetobe@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bio - new member

Hi Everyone, 

This is the 'short bio' that was requested. It is
reprinted here. 
My name is
Vanessa and I am in the process of adopting from
Kazakhstan. I live in Connecticut. I have completed
the home study process but am waiting for one more
piece of paperwork to come back, that will make it
official. I've also started the INS process. My
homestudy agency is the Adoption Resource Center of
Connecticut and I plan to work with World Child on the
actual adoption. I have already been in touch with
them.
I am hoping to adopt two children as an older single
parent (no more than 1 boy). I would like the children
to be between 1 and 5 or 6 years old, and, if
possible, siblings.
I would like any information that I can get on the
process for the next stage of it, any information from
people who have 'been there' and I would love to
network with people who will be doing this as well.
Many thanks and I look forward to 'meeting' all of
you.

Vanessa


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
   Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:40:12 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Re: birth dates

The hardest part about this decision, and the one I think some people 
don't think enough about, is what the child's situation is likely to 
be 2 or 3 years down the road.  

Nicholas was at about the 25th percentile for height (given his bio 
age) when we brought him home -- but is now -- less than 18 months 
after coming home -- at about the 60th percentile for height.  When 
we brought him home he looked to be about 7 or 8 years old -- but now 
looks every bit his 11 years old.

Kira was about the size of a typical American 4 year old when we 
first met her in November/December '99, although she was 8 years 
old.  She barely wore a size 6 when we brought her home in April 2000 
and looked by then to be about 5 or 6 years old.  Now, less than 18 
months later -- she looks like any other 9 year old -- and looks 
noticeably older than many of her classmates -- some of whom are 
almost 2 years younger than she is now.

We NEVER would have believed how much the kids would grow and change 
in such a short time -- and I'm sure it's hard for other parents to 
imagine, as well.  However, I also know what we experienced doesn't 
happen in every case and that many kids remain small or about the 
same size as their younger classmates.  Knowing what will happen in 
any individual case is pretty much guesswork...but you should think 
about how you will handle a situation in which your child is 
significantly older than his or her classmates -- but does not have 
the academic strenght to skip a grade later on.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:01:03 -0400
   From: "McCarthy" <LynnMcCarthy1@mediaone.net>
Subject: Birth date adjustments

Just our two cents worth about changing/not changing birthdates.  We chose NOT to adjust our son's age because he was already showing signs of being on the tall side - even for a Kazak.  Liam was 8 (birthday is 17 Oct) when I brought him home on 1 March this year.  Within a couple of weeks of coming home, he was placed into a first grade in an Arlington, VA public school with ESL classes for 2 1/2 hours every morning.  This provided 2 things for him:  (1) he was placed with an age group that matched his social development plus (2) he was still getting ESL.  We found Liam was reluctant to mix with any neighborhood children until he started school and socialized with American kids.

Since we have relocated to the Jacksonville, FL area, Liam has entered second grade in Clay County.  Here the ESOL classes are total immersion so that he is in with children from a variety of cultural backgrounds but they are allowed to only speak English in the classroom.  He is also taken for special work with the Title 1 teacher as are some of the other children who lag behind in reading, English and/or math.

We've noticed considerable growth in Liam over the last seven months in terms of height and maturity.  If he catches up academically, we may consider skipping a grade.  However, we don't make much of a deal over the year or two difference between he and some of his classmates.  He is, by the way, not the only one his age in his class.  Guess we feel, as Laura said earlier, that his birthdate was really the one thing that was all his from Kaz and it is as much a part of his identity as his brown eyes and warm smile.
            Lynn 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 23
   Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:22:59 -0400
   From: "T/J Klafehn" <tjklafehn@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: birth dates

Could someone please clarify what is meant by "changing" their child's age?
Since their true age is part of their adoption records and visa(s), I assume
that you just mean to let them believe they are a different age.  Yet it
will be clear to the child immediately, if not soon, that they are engaged
in some sort of deception (no harshness intended), won't it?  Won't they be
inclined to want to tell others their "true" age?  Our 5-year old son-to-be
was very well aware of how old he was this summer.  A parent's wanting to be
understanding of their child's sensitivity to his/her
social/academic/physical lag compared to his/her age-level American
counterparts seems laudable, but I agree that this recourse should probably
not be entered into lightly.  I had a 14 year old in my classroom this
summer who came from Russia when he was 10.  Aside from a bit of lingering
awkwardness with some aspects of writing, their was remarkably nothing
socially to separate him from his classmates (and in math he was very
proficient).  On top of this, he was from a household where the parents
spoke almost entirely Russian around the house!




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24
   Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:44:23 -0000
   From: adopt101@aol.com
Subject: Re: birth dates

>>Could someone please clarify what is meant by "changing" their 
child's age?  Since their true age is part of their adoption records 
and visa(s), I assume that you just mean to let them believe they are 
a different age.<<

Some parents legally change their child's age at the time of adoption 
in Kazakhstan.  From what I understand this is "technically" 
impossible to do in Kaz and Russia -- but I do know of parents who 
did this during the overseas adoption process -- usually to make 
their child 1 - 2 years younger.

In other cases, parents either tell their child they are a year 
younger than they actually are -- and the kids believe this -- while 
in other cases parents discuss it with the child and agree to 
consider the child a year or two younger.

Parents in many states also have the option to legally change their 
child's age at the time of readoption, and sometimes can even 
petition a judge outside of a readoption.  Standards vary by state 
and sometimes by jurisdiction as to if/how parents can do this -- so 
it's best to talk with adoptive families in your community if you are 
considering legally changing your child's age.  For example, I know 
parents who simply petitioned the court without any 
supporting "documentation" as to why the child should be made younger 
who successfully changed their kids ages -- while other parents had 
to submit dental, medical and psychological records supporting the 
position that the child was "younger" than his or her stated age.

>>Yet it will be clear to the child immediately, if not soon, that 
they are engaged in some sort of deception (no harshness intended), 
won't it?  Won't they be inclined to want to tell others their "true" 
age?  Our 5-year old son-to-be was very well aware of how old he was 
this summer.<<

Not necessarily.  Many of these kids have no idea how old they are -- 
and some "think" they are one age but are actually another (usually 
older) age.  It depends on what the practice is in the orphanage -- 
some recognize birthdays and group kids by age -- while others do 
little, if anything, to recognize birthdays or segregate the kids 
according to age groups.  Our kids knew how old they were, and the 
season their birthday was in...but I suspect that was ONLY because 
they were each in foster care and celebrated a birthday with their 
foster families just before their adoptions.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/