"The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" radio show, September 16, 2006 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7138902733176162543 VINCE DANIELS: Hey, we got--what an hour we've got planned here, and we want to welcome in this half hour Greg Beha, Mr. Beha is the father of a young man who was as recently as this summer went for drug treatment at a Narconon facility in Michigan. Now if you haven't already read his son's story, it is beautifully written in letter form and available on the home page of the website vincedaniels, dot, com. It is written by his father Greg Beha. Greg is on by phone this afternoon from the little town of Glouster, Ohio. Great to have you, Mr. Beha. GREG BEHA: Well, thank you for letting me tell my story. VINCE DANIELS: And I also want to welcome to "The Many Moods" Clark Carr. Mr. Carr is the President of Narconon International, also joining us by phone. Clark is interested--what does it say here--dot, da-da, da-da--Clark--I can't see it. He's not on? CLARK CARR: Yes, I'm here. VINCE DANIELS: You are? Okay. CLARK CARR: Thank you. VINCE DANIELS: Da-da-da-da--I can't read. Oh, that's fine, and he's not going to, either, I'm already up to speed on this here, Mr. Engineer. Clark is interested in--here I was just getting ready to say if you had let me finish here--that Clark is interested in hearing what Greg Beha has to say on behalf of his son. And we appreciate you coming on and listening, and nice to have you, Mr. Carr. CLARK CARR: Well, I hope that I can shed some light and the whole purpose of all of this is that we want to save lives. VINCE DANIELS: Okay. Well, first of all, you know, you've agreed to listen to, at least listen to Mr. Beha's story. CLARK CARR: Certainly. VINCE DANIELS: And go ahead, Greg, because this letter that is on our website, it's got some pretty damning stuff. GREG BEHA: Okay, my name is Greg and I'm from southeastern Ohio, as I said, a little town called Glouster. My stepson probably had a drug problem four to five years, and these last couple of years it just got worse. And around April and May, I mean, it had just gotten way out of hand. So me and his mom sat down with him and decided that we would send him to a, a drug rehab center. And he agreed to this. So what I wanted out of it was, I wanted him out of state so none of his buddies could get a hold of him, and I wanted it to be a long-term facility. And during the last week of May, I called 1-800-NO DRUGS and they hooked me up with Stone Hawk Rehabilitation Center out of Battle Creek, Michigan. And we talked with a Ramsy there. In probably two days talking to him and I finally agreed that that's where we would send our son. The cost of the rehab center was 23, 5--$23,500--and it was a three to six months' program. And the money had to be paid up when entering the program. Once we agreed with Ramsy that we would show up there, I had to go through the courts, because my son was on probation. And it took about a month for that paperwork to get through so I could take him out of state. Once we did that--the drive was probably seven or eight hours up to there and we got there a little after midnight--Ramsy met us there with the paperwork and stuff we had to fill out. And while we were going over the forms and questionnaires, one of them said the program was a no-refund program--and that's the first I heard of this. And at that time, I asked Ramsy that if our son threw a fit, were they gonna throw him out. And Ramsy assured us that they dealt with drug addicts all the time and it would not be a problem. So we went ahead and paid our money. And that night they went ahead and checked him in detox. Probably--well, not probably--but on July 2, two days in the detox, Stone Hawk called us and told us our son was passing out and was vomiting blood and spitting up blood, and that our son was wanting to go to the hospital, and they were going to take him to the hospital AMA, and that means against medical advice, so they went ahead and took him to the hospital. We went ahead and called the hospital and they told us that he was totally dehydrated and they started him on IVs. And I think they ended up putting two bags if not three bags of IVs into him. Anyhow, after he got back on his feet, they went ahead and took him back to Stone Hawk where he finished the drug detox part of the program. And that took five days. Then our son was ready to start the next phase of the program, program, and it's called "Therapeutic Training Routines Course". And it's supposed to teach one the ability to confront and communicate. And the way I understand it, it was a three to five day program. And our son just wasn't getting through the phase. So anyhow, during this period, we were talking with our son and the counselors from Stone Hawk, trying to get our son through this part of the program. On July 13 or 14, I couldn't remember which, but we talked to a Patty--I think it's Ramsy's boss--and he told us that if he couldn't get our son through the course by the end of the weekend, they'd have to let him go. Well, when we hung up, we called Ramsy and told him about the situation, and he assured us that he would talk to our son to help get him through. So anyhow, the next four days, we talked with our son. He would call us, or we would call up there and try to get to him. We talked to Patty, we talked to Ramsy. They even put us on a speaker phone with Patty and Tory in the office there, and everything was fine for four days. In the evening of the fourth day--it was on July 18, 18 days into the program--Stone Hawk loaded my son's belongings and drove him 26 miles to a motel room--a $35 a night, I think is what it cost--and they dropped him off. They paid for his room and gave him 10 bucks And I have this phone message at the house and it says; "This is Jai, the administrator of Stone Hawk of Battle Creek. Tory just had another outburst and we are basically washing our hands at this point in time, he is being on a two week AMA, basically a two week suspension." Well, the next day, we took off and we went and got our son. We found another drug rehab center at a cost of $14,000 and entered him into that. But anyhow, after that day, we couldn't--we called up Stone Hawk and no one really wanted to talk to me. They played phone tag and finally on July 27--I think it was eight or nine days after they dropped him off--I got a hold of the owner of Stone Hawk, his name is Per Wickstrom. First thing he told me that our phone conversation was being recorded. And he told me that there would be no refunds and that our son was on a 30 day suspension AMA, against medical advice, and that he was going to hold a bed for 30 days, and that our son could have up to three 30 day suspensions, and he would hold the bed all this time. To me, that sounds like that's where they get this three-month program. But anyhow, if, after the first 30-day suspension if my son was to go back to Stone Hawk, they were wanting $1500 for a cleansing and then if there are drugs found in his system, they'd want another $3500 or more for another detox. VINCE DANIELS: What?! GREG BEHA: That's what I was told. VINCE DANIELS: Well, I have to--I have to ask you at this point, what was--what was the actual violation? What was he doing to be dropped off at a random motel room, a rather cheap motel room, and put $10 in his pocket and then get a message saying that they're washing their hands of the situation? What did he actually do? GREG BEHA: No one would tell me from Stone Hawk. And I talked to my son, and he told me that he just told them that L. Ron Hubbard was a complete idiot. And he used some swear words then. VINCE DANIELS: Oh-- GREG BEHA: And that's the only thing he told me that he could see why they drug him out of there. VINCE DANIELS: Because this is not somebody of a violent nature, somebody-- GREG BEHA: Oh, no-- VINCE DANIELS: Somebody who would not be cooperative with a drug program. GREG BEHA: No, he was more than willing to go to this program. And when we put him in the other rehab center, you know, four weeks he was there easily with no problem whatsoever. VINCE DANIELS: Okay, now you actually, after all this was said and done--and this is really actually still a fresh experience with you, Greg. We're talking to Greg Beha, the father of his son Tory--and we also, by the way, have Tory Christman here-- TORY CHRISTMAN: (laughs) That was ironic! VINCE DANIELS: Yeah. Now you actually wrote a letter to the President of Narconon International--who we have on the other line, Clark Carr--did you not. GREG BEHA: Right, I wrote him almost the same letter I wrote everybody else, exactly what happened and-- VINCE DANIELS: What came of that? GREG BEHA: I never heard from anyone. I've also written Narconon International, which he's in charge of, and the only thing I got back from them was from a Marcy Powell, and it said, "Thank you very much for sending us this data. I have forwarded it to our management personnel to look into this." And this was on October 18. VINCE DANIELS: Well, we can do you better than that. You will hear from Clark Carr right now because he's joining us by phone, Clark Carr, President of Narconon International. And welcome, Mr. Carr. CLARK CARR: Thank you. VINCE DANIELS: You've listened to this story, you've read the story on my website. CLARK CARR: Um-hmm. VINCE DANIELS: Okay, give us your take. CLARK CARR: Well, first off, what I have to say is that there are some constraints. First, I'm sorry that Mr. Beha's son has got this drug problem and I'm glad that he has been reaching for help and that the family has been doing something about it, and I salute them for continuing to work on it. VINCE DANIELS: Yeah, but it seems to me that he reached out to you guys for help. CLARK CARR: Yeah, he certainly did, to--to that center, as I understand. Now, there are federal and state confidentiality laws that, without an actual signed notice from the student himself, I cannot discuss medical and specific case circumstances, but I can certainly discuss the matter of Narconon policy and so forth and I thank you for letting me be here. Um, as I understand, the young man was court ordered to the program and it was approved after some period of time despite-- GREG BEHA: The young man was not court ordered, he was on probation back in the state and he was never ordered to go to drug rehab. We on our own decided to take him to drug rehab. CLARK CARR: Okay, well, I'm not--I'm not sure that that is factually the case, but the point is, the decision was made to have him come to rehab and that various--we have certainly all of the policies and the rules and regulations are signed by an enrolling student. And I--I know that was done as far and then, we are a drug-free program and we--we work with medical professionals. We have--that particular center has two residential nurses on-site 24/7. GREG BEHA: But why did they let him get dehydrated? CLARK CARR: Well, the--I ran a Narconon center myself for 10 years and it is--it is factually the case that a person coming off of opiates is going to have some diarrhea and they're going to be vomiting some, and that you can treat that and, depending upon the person, sometimes they will or will not lose, lose foo--you know, more fluid than they can take in. When I had a rehab center, periodically I found that it was, in fact, necessary to take a student to a clinic in order to have a saline solution IV and, in fact, that was the correct thing to do. It sounds like in your son's case that he was losing more fluid than he could replace and he needed a saline solution. And so I am glad that that was done and, in fact, it was correct. The--I do not have access to the medical records and if, um, for specifics, one would need to talk to the doctor, Dr. Steven Robinson, there. What I do know is that, as I say, they have registered nurses that are professional and they have two consulting doctors who are often on-site during the week and also are on-call 24/7. So, in fact, when there was, when your--as you're stating if it's true and I can well imagine as your son is coming off heavy opiates-- GREG BEHA: What do you mean if it's true-- VINCE DANIELS: What do you mean if it's true? CLARK CARR: That, then it was appropriate that he go and he has the fluids replaced with an IV and then-- GREG BEHA: Then why was he dropped off-- VINCE DANIELS: You see, that's the-- CLARK CARR: He came back and went through the withdrawal process and-- VINCE DANIELS: Pardon me, Clark, Clark, I have to ask--why was he, you know, put in a cheap motel and just left there with 10 bucks in his pocket? I mean, what stage of the program is that? CLARK CARR: Well, the--I, again, I don't myself know and would not be able to say what were the specific rules violations-- (crosstalk) CLARK CARR: I understand that there were four--four days of more than just disagreements. There was considerable enturbulation and, and threats of violence and I don't know what all of it was about-- VINCE DANIELS: Threats of violence, Greg? GREG BEHA: We talked to everybody up there; everybody was fine. The counselors, my son, up to the fourth day. Everyone, every day they said he was fine. He said he was fine and he was getting along. They thought for sure he was gonna make it through it. Then all of a sudden I get this message that you took him to the motel room. CLARK CARR: Well-- GREG BEHA: I mean, that's just totally wrong. VINCE DANIELS: Is that--is that a procedure that you go through when somebody makes a violation, you just dump them off at a hotel with 10 bucks in their pocket? CLARK CARR: No, I don't have--I don't have any data on that. What I do know is that if a student is-- VINCE DANIELS: Under any circumstances-- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (???) runs these programs-- CLARK CARR: Our policy is that if a student is suspended from the program for rules violations or because they decide that they in fact and certainly do not want to be there, then arrangements are made with the family to have them picked up. VINCE DANIELS: Wait-- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there arrangements made? CLARK CARR: The truth is-- VINCE DANIELS: How many miles away was the hotel from the facility, Greg? GREG BEHA: 26 miles. VINCE DANIELS: So 26 miles from the fac--is the nearest motel to that--oh, my gosh; no, I didn't think so. Greg--wait, wait, I mean Clark--the buck has to stop somewhere. You are the President of Narconon International. CLARK CARR: Absolutely. VINCE DANIELS: This poor family has just shelled out over 20 grand because they love their son and they want to help their son. CLARK CARR: That's right. VINCE DANIELS: Well, wait--but he's not helped. CLARK CARR: Well, he was in the process of being helped-- VINCE DANIELS: This is a church, for Heaven's sake! CLARK CARR: And I'm not sure what occurred. What I know, sir, from having run a rehab myself--and we all know that when you're working with drug addicts, we're not talking about people who do not go through many, many changes. And sometimes they, they have not made the decision to really do the program and they need a breathing space to figure it out. And the truth is, there are times when a student needs to be suspended because he's a threat to other, to other students. And if that's the case, then it needs to be handled in a responsible manner and I completely agree with that. The truth is, Narconon-- VINCE DANIELS: By being alone by yourself in a motel?! CLARK CARR: Is operating in the United States for 40 years, and we have a very good record of, of saving hundreds and thousands of lives. And I-- VINCE DANIELS: So what was different with this case? CLARK CARR: (???) for working with their son and I hope he does well-- GREG BEHA: Yeah, but what are you gonna do about me and my money? CLARK CARR: The door was left open-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Did you pay them back-- CLARK CARR: For him being able to come back. TORY CHRISTMAN: Did you pay them back, Clark? GREG BEHA: Not one dime. CLARK CARR: Well, I-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Why not? CLARK CARR: If--there is policy on refunds and if it is appropriate, then I'm certain, I'm sure that a refund-- VINCE DANIELS: But how come it's stated in there no refund policy then? CLARK CARR: Well, the truth is when one comes in, they need to be making a total commitment. Of course, there are circumstances where for medical reasons or other reasons, or where the program itself would decide that they felt they couldn't help someone, that a refund would be appropriate. And it is as appropriate-- VINCE DANIELS: You're stating on the record here today, Clark Carr, you're stating that there is a possibility that this--that this family could get their $23,500 refunded to them. CLARK CARR: I am certain that they can in communication with that independent Narconon center-- GREG BEHA: Now, whoa, whoa-- CLARK CARR: Communication can work out-- GREG BEHA: Whoa, whoa--I talked to their-- CLARK CARR: What is equitable and appropriate-- GREG BEHA: Clark-- CLARK CARR: I am not the, the administrative authority over that center. But I do know that it is our policy to maintain good relations and good communication, and I completely understand the situation of the family and the situation of the student. GREG BEHA: Clark-- CLARK CARR: They had a young man-- GREG BEHA: Clark-- CLARK CARR: Who was (???) drugs and was trying to-- VINCE DANIELS: Let's let Greg talk for just a second. Go ahead, Greg. GREG BEHA: I got a letter from Stone Hawk where I wrote to them on September 1 about my refund. The agreement was signed by you and states that "we have a nonrefundable program" and that's all there was to it. VINCE DANIELS: Well, then, what is it, Clark? GREG BEHA: I could get no refund from them. I already went through this with them. I did everything they said, and I ain't getting a refund. CLARK CARR: Okay, well, as I understand--but you also stated earlier is that there is a suspension policy so I would get back in communication with the center-- GREG BEHA: Why would I take my son-- CLARK CARR: With regard to the suspension policy-- GREG BEHA: Back to you? Why would I take my son back to you? VINCE DANIELS: After dumping him off at a hotel. CLARK CARR: I, I understand that. What I am saying is that I would get back in communication with the center. I am not the administrative director there. The truth is-- GREG BEHA: You're the boss of the whole program. CLARK CARR: I'm the President of Narconon International-- VINCE DANIELS: But where does-- CLARK CARR: And I help-- TORY CHRISTMAN: You signed the letter, right? CLARK CARR: No. TORY ChRISTMAN: You didn't sign it. CLARK CARR: No, this letter is not-- GREG BEHA: This letter is from Stone Hawk. VINCE DANIELS: Does it have Mr. Carr's signature on it, Greg? GREG BEHA: No. It has a-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Okay-- GREG BEHA: Executive (???) CLARK CARR: ANyway, I understand that there has been a communication, and so what we have is, we have a family that is requesting a refund or repayment of moneys with regard to the, the treat--the rehabilitation of their son, so if-- VINCE DANIELS: And you can fix-- CLARK CARR: They maintain communication with the center, I'm sure this can be handled equitably because it serves--it does not serve us or serve anyone else well to leave, you know, to just, to generate animosity. The truth is, the Narconon people, of course, their--their sincere desire is to help people rehabilitate themselves from drugs-- GREG BEHA: Then why didn't you take care of my son? CLARK CARR: We've done that successfully most of the time. Three out of four of our graduates live drug-free lives. Not all of them do. Sometimes the program is not appropriate or sometimes a person cannot live within the rules and regulations that are, you know, for a peaceful program to progress, and in those circumstances, a, you know, a student may need to leave the program. But with a sincere effort that they brought him to the center and the sincere effort that these people took them on, I know that everyone was doing their best. I'm sorry that it, that there was trouble-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Their best? CLARK CARR: In fact-- GREG BEHA: For four days there was no problem-- CLARK CARR: That your son-- GREG BEHA: Four days-- CLARK CARR: Completed the withdrawal and I understand that he was very pleased with the withdrawal. And after that point I'm not sure what occurred in his life, why he wanted to leave. I'm sure there are other details. I'm not at liberty to, you know, to discuss the case issues. But the truth is, we have--we have a young man who is wanting to get well. I--I'm glad he is continuing, I hope he stays well. And our Narconon centers around the United States will continue to-- GREG BEHA: They take your money and stick it to you-- CLARK CARR: Do the work that they can to save lives-- VINCE DANIELS: Yeah, but it was no-- CLARK CARR: And we've been doing this for decades-- VINCE DANIELS: It was no thanks to Narconon, though, Clark. They didn't--he's had, he's had to go to a private institution now to do it and he's paying more money that he doesn't have, because he--because he and his wife love his son and what are you--what are you doing about it? That's the question and you keep avoiding it. CLARK CARR: No, I'm not avoiding anything. What I--I just found out about this last night. I-- GREG BEHA: Clark, I wrote to you-- CLARK CARR: I gathered some data and I understand the circumstances as they've been presented by the father here. And what I have to remind you is that drug rehabilitation is a very challenging area, both for the families, for the people that are involved and for the centers themselves. I am sorry that he had to leave the program under these circumstances, and I recommend that the family maintain communication with the center. And it is our policy that if a refund is appropriate, you know, whether it be partial or total, that this can, that this will be--this can be done. Each center is an independent operation and so, but we have overall policy and so-- GREG BEHA: And Clark, you can't step in and make it right-- CLARK CARR: (???) be able to work this out. GREG BEHA: Clark, you can't step in and make it right. VINCE DANIELS: As the administrator. CLARK CARR: Well, I will communicate with the--with the directors of the center and I will ask them to get back in communication with you. TORY CHRISTMAN: Why not just send a check? CLARK CARR: Well, because--what, what they need to do is discuss it and see whether it's appropriate and then--and then I, I will see that that is done-- VINCE DANIELS: And we can do a followup program here and we can talk about how everything was handled over the next 30 days and then what you--we could do another followup show here and the next time we come on here, we can report that this family, that the Beha family was successfully refunded. Is that what we can do? CLARK CARR: Well-- VINCE DANIELS: Well not to mention, why don't we get the, the sign-off on the actual situation, let's get, you know, some type of dialogue going on about what actually happened to get him out of the program. What was his actual offense? You can't talk about because you need a patient release-- CLARK CARR: And the truth is-- VINCE DANIELS: Why don't we see about getting a patient release? CLARK CARR: The truth is, I'm not really interested in, in discussing the difficulties of the young man in his rehabilitation because, having run a center for 10 years, it's very challenging. I have great respect for not just young people but anyone trying to come off drugs and alcohol. VINCE DANIELS: Well, sir, I'm more interested in seeing where-- CLARK CARR: They face very, very severe temptations-- VINCE DANIELS: Your program failed-- CLARK CARR: At times. They, in fact, cannot control themselves enough to where you can deal with them in a non-medicated center where you're not gonna be tranquilizing them. GREG BEHA: But you guys are-- CLARK CARR: And Narconon is a drug-free facility-- GREG BEHA: Supposed to be dealing with this all the time. CLARK CARR: For that reason-- VINCE DANIELS: Right, you-- CLARK CARR: It gets better results. VINCE DANIELS: You said earlier that you had a three out of four success rate. I mean, that's a pretty good success rate so obviously, you know, somewhere along this line there was a point of failure with your program. I would like to know what that point of failure was. TORY CHRISTMAN: And wouldn't you, as the President, want to know really what did happen to this young man so that you can make sure this never-- CLARK CARR: Exactly-- TONY CHRISTMAN: Ever happens-- CLARK CARR: Of course-- TONY CHRISTMAN: And make your program better. CLARK CARR: (???) Will be in communication with the center. And the truth is, we're in this for the long haul. In other words, the drug problem continues to be an individually severe crisis for any family it addresses. Some drugs are being more used, some less. But Narconon-- GREG BEHA: But it doesn't help when you guys stick-- CLARK CARR: And we absolutely want to deliver the best we can and main--if there are difficulties such as occurred here, we will continue communication with the family. So I will be in communication with the center to see that this is followed up. GREG BEHA: Clark-- CLARK CARR: And amicably resolved. GREG BEHA: You want me to go another four weeks at another center, no problem. CLARK CARR: Well, that's good, and I'm delighted for that. VINCE DANIELS: Right now, let's go on down to Los Angeles. Jeannie--is it Jeannie or Jean. JEAN (on phone): It's Jean. VINCE DANIELS: Jean, welcome, welcome to KCAA. You had a question. JEAN: Yeah, no, I actually wanted to see if I could just go back to earlier in the show? VINCE DANIELS: Um-hmm. JEAN: I've been a Scientologist for 30 years, and I've--I found spirituality through Scientology. And you guys--I know there was discussion about it being a cult and it being not a religion; and for me, for 30 years, I found that I was a spiritual being because of Scientology. And I have a body and I have a mind. It's not a cult since there's nothing hidden, and we're open for anyone who wants our help and our assistance. (Tory hands sign to other people who bring it close to camera: The sign says, "Scientologists: If you are free, why can't you talk to me? www.xenu.net") JEAN: I've helped a lot of people with Scientology; a lot of people have helped me. I personally don't work for the Church, but I do--I do help people all the time. It's what I do. I enjoy-- VINCE DANIELS: Jeannie-- JEAN: Helping people-- VINCE DANIELS: Would you help this family out in Ohio, the Beha family right now? I mean, how would you help them? What would you say to Greg and his, his wife, who spent $23,500 to put their son through rehab through a program that is actually owned part and parcel by the church that you belong to? CLARK CARR: Well let me first address that. Narconon--all of the Narconon centers from their founding originally are independent, nonprofit organizations, including Narconon Stone Hawk-- JEAN: I mean, I see why you-- CLARK CARR: It is not run by or owned by the church although we-- JEAN: And you've got--Mr. Carr has said-- CLARK CARR: Acknowledge our friendship with the church. JEAN: Mr. carr has said he's gonna take care of it and I feel like we're--we're kind of, you know, really beating a dead horse, so to speak, as far as that goes. But I personally have-- VINCE DANIELS: I, no, he didn't-- TORY CHRISTMAN: He didn't say he was gonna take of it-- VINCE DANIELS: He didn't say he was going to take of it-- TORY CHRISTMAN: He didn't say that at all. VINCE DANIELS: He used all the right PR words that made it sound like he was gonna take care of it. But I haven't heard the words come out of his mouth yet. TORY CHRISTMAN: Though he is the President of Narconon. JEAN: Of course, he can't--I mean, I don't know the situation at all, but I know that he can't promise on the radio that he's gonna get a refund. He needs to go and look it up and check it out just like any other responsible executive would do. But what I'm trying to say is if you want to know about me and the Narconon program, I have some very best friends, who I absolutely cannot mention their names, whose entire lives were totally changed through the Narconon program. VINCE DANIELS: Well, I mean-- JEAN: One, the 75% that he says, the three out of four, who-- (crosstalk) VINCE DANIELS: I know what you're gonna say, Mike, I mean, you know the success rate, right? MIKE: I mean, no, not even that, but-- VINCE DANIELS: Because there's no way in hell that there is ever a 75% success rate with any drug rehabilitation program. Statistics show it's about 20-25%. Because for one, you're dealing with drug rehabilitation and you're dealing with drug addicts. There is no program-- CLARK CARR: Our method, our method has, does have, you know, decades of very good experience, and we have actually been commended by CARP, which is the rehabilitation accreditation commission, for followup procedures on tracking people-- (crosstalk) TORY CHRISTMAN: How come Narconon was just kicked out of the California schools? CLARK CARR: Three out of four of our graduates stay well-- VINCE DANIELS: Now that's a good question, good question-- CLARK CARR: And we're very proud of that-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Clark, how come California [Narconon] was just kicked out of the California schools? CLARK CARR: We weren't kicked out of the California schools-- VINCE DANIELS: And Hawaii-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Narconon was-- CLARK CARR: No it wasn't-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Yes it was. VINCE DANIELS: And Boston. TORY CHRISTMAN: Um-hmm. CLARK CARR: The, there is--the-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Because it IS run by the Church of Scientology and you know it! It's under the same umbrella and don't try to tell me not. I worked at Narconon, Int., babe, and I know you well, Clark. You never once ever, since I left Scientology, have ever called me, asked me what happened, spoken to me. And that's pathetic, man! CLARK CARR: Well-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Well, what? CLARK CARR: It goes the other way around-- TORY CHRISTMAN: You're the President of Narconon-- CLARK CARR: It goes the other way around, Miss Christman-- TORY CHRISTMAN: I've been around, honey, I've been out and about talking to a lot of people!Never your executives-- CLARK CARR: We're talking about Narconon, and the Narconon drug education. It's continuing in California, across the United States and across the world-- GREG BEHA: And you're talking about throwing my son in a motel room-- TORY CHRISTMAN: And you threw Mr. Beha's son in a motel room and you haven't yet said you're gonna pay them back. CLARK CARR: Well, it's not my issue to do so-- TORY CHRISTMAN: It IS your issue-- VINCE DANIELS: You're the President and an administrator of this organization-- CLARK CARR: Absolutely. We'll communicate with the executives of Narconon Stone Hawk and see that they pursue this-- VINCE DANIELS: Well, let's not-- CLARK CARR: Reach an amicable conclusion-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Pursue--you and I know can go on and on and on. When I was declared a Suppressive Person, which means nobody, you or anybody else can talk to me because it's a high crime in Scientology. I tried to call the Justice Chief which is my one terminal on my Suppressive declare. (holds up goldenrod SP declare) TORY CHRISTMAN: On the back, it says, "Your only terminal is your Justice Chief". And you know how long it took me to get in touch with him? He never ever called me back. He never ever wrote me a letter. EVER! I finally got an attorney and THAT's how I got touch with the Church of Scientology. So don't say you're gonna get through to it, say it now. You're gonna pay them back-- CLARK CARR: Tory-- TORY CHRISTMAN: You can do it-- CLARK CARR: Tory, your relation with the Church of Scientology is between you and the Church. I work for Narconon-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Absolutely, and you're part of it, aren't you? VINCE DANIELS: Now she's making it public-- CLARK CARR: I work with Narconon and I will absolutely work with Narconon Stone Hawk to see that they and this family work this out, because-- GREG BEHA: Will we get our refund-- TONY CHRISTMAN: Will they get paid back? JEAN: Can I talk now-- GREG BEHA: Will we get a refund? CLARK CARR: I am sure that-- (crosstalk) CLARK CARR: Amicable to both sides because I agree that we want an amicable-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Good, do what's right-- CLARK CARR: (???) to this-- TORY CHRISTMAN: So just say you're gonna pay them back. GREG BEHA: (???) check-- CLARK CARR: That's not my-- GREG BEHA: So I get my check-- CLARK CARR: (???) to say because I can't, and you know that. TORY CHRISTMAN: I do know it-- CLARK CARR: I will work with Narconon Stone Hawk on it. The truth is, we go--every week, we have requests for more and more service. We are doing our best to help these people. And as Mr. Daniels said, drug rehabilitation is, is a tremendous challenge, and we believe that we should add our shoulders to the wheel and we do. And as the caller-in said, we are saving individual lives and we will continue with this. And I hope that the young man in question goes forward and lives a drug-free life, however he does it. That's what we want, to see that that occurs. We will do what we can do, and that--and that is--you originally early on said, Mr. Daniels, that drug rehab was a kind of noble cause. And it is. It's hard, hard work. And-- TORY CHRISTMAN: Nobody's saying it isn't-- CLARK CARR: We're not successful all the time-- (crosstalk) TORY CHRISTMAN: That's not the issue here. VINCE DANIELS: That's not what-- TOYR CHRISTMAN: Nobody says it isn't-- VINCE DANIELS: That's not why I--and that's really not why I brought that up. Why I brought that up was, as Mikey and I were discussing before the show this morning, In--in the spirit of all things church, who would drop somebody off--we haven't even talked yet, have we, Greg, about the traumatic experience of when your son got to that motel. He looked at a woman--it was one of those motels, you know it's not a hotel, Mike, it has an "M" in it, okay? $15 a night, and there was a girl there who--there was blood all over the place when you walked in the lobby! That's the kind of motel it was! That's got to be a traumatic experience for anybody to walk in. MIKE: Sounds like they dropped him off in a dope spot! GREG BEHA: And know why we weren't accepted-- CLARK CARR: I understand-- GREG BEHA: I bet you I can buy drugs at that motel within two hours. And that way you'd gotten another $4000 off of me if I took my son back. And you just set him up to fail. CLARK CARR: Well, I--you know, I will ask that the--that the executives continue to be communication with you-- GREG BEHA: I need a check for 23,5-- CLARK CARR: And I--I understand your concern and I'm very glad that your son continues in rehab to get well-- GREG BEHA: You know, that's-- CLARK CARR: We will also continue our job-- GREG BEHA: That's another step, okay-- CLARK CARR: That's what this is about-- GREG BEHA: We'll talk about my money, refund me my money, maybe I can continue on sending him to another rehab instead of borrowing everybody's credit cards. VINCE DANIELS: Yeah. Hey, Greg Beha, thank you. TORY CHRISTMAN: Thank you, Greg-- VINCE DANIELS: Clark Carr, thank you both for being on with us here today. Jeannie, sorry we didn't, you know, we didn't get more to you but thank you for calling in here-- JEAN: Yeah, I just-- VINCE DANIELS: Go ahead-- JEAN: Go to Narconon, dot, com, N-A-R-C-O-N-O-N, they can find out about our-- TORY CHRISTMAN: And go to stop narconon, dot, com, and find out the other side! VINCE DANIELS: We got to look at the other side of it, too, exactly. Thank you. Thanks all for coming-- GREG BEHA: Hey, Vince-- VINCE DANIELS: Yeah? GREG BEHA: Can I put my e-mail--my e-mail address on there? VINCE DANIELS: Sure. GREG BEHA: It's gregbe at frognet, dot, net. VINCE DANIELS: Which we also have linked to our site here at vince daniels, dot, com. And we're gonna come back with more of Tory Christman. Bob Adams is also here as well, and your phone calls, at (909) 888-5222 when we continue. You're listening.