"The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" Radio Show, February 24, 2007

http://Stop-Narconon.org/StoneHawk

Segment 1

VINCE DANIELS:  We're going to get into that with him in the 11:00, we're 
going to go to 11:30 it's Katy bar the door because we're going to get back 
into it, and I know that the YouTube, I know the video is going to be rolling 
and this is going to be on YouTube again, circling the globe this week. 
[Laughter] But we're going to talk to, in fact, Sheri Koenig is back and 
Kimberly Darr is back, and if you think it's easy for Sheri to be back this 
week, it's not because they--you know what? I'm not even going to spoil it. 
You've got to tune in this morning at 11:30. I haven't even posted anything 
on the alt.fan.religion.scientology [Ed: should be alt.religion.scientology] 
board to give anything away because we've got some breaking--we've got some 
things to talk about here today.

KIM JOHNSON:  Big stuff.

VINCE DANIELS:  We do. Anyway, the mailbag--let's dive into it. And this is 
just but a few. This probably isn't even a third of what we got in this week.

KIM JOHNSON:  Fun! [Laughter]

JAY BOATMAN:  Do you want me to say who it's from, Vinnie, at the end here or 
do you want me to keep it--

VINCE DANIELS:  Yeah, whoever [inaudible]. Some of them are long so I've 
highlighted just the parts to read.

JAY BOATMAN:  All right. This one comes from Linda Gammon. Doesn't say from 
where but it said Linda Gammon from the 201 area code. She states: I found it 
interesting if a bit naïve the comments made about the Narconon Stone Hawk 
program in Michigan. I suppose I assumed that people in positions of 
influence would require documentation other than an occasional testimony when 
supporting an issue. My advice to my staff has always been to first and 
foremost gather all information with an open mind. When they feel they have 
secured enough information to make an assessment, they should continue 
digging. Almost every time they discover additional information which clearly 
shows the situation more effectively.

Now, in regards to Narconon, I really don't believe the testimonials. In 
fact, I have known some who have attended this program and, believe me, 
coming from affluent Bergen County, New Jersey, they would not have remained 
there if one-third of what was presented was true. And by the way, there are 
rats in the streets and empty buildings where homeless junkies and alcoholics 
crash, and the women sell themselves for drugs and alcohol. This is after 
they have robbed their parents and other loved ones blind. What I'm saying is 
that while I would investigate such claims, I would never give them any 
credibility without a full picture displayed. I believe you may have 
inadvertently done this by the manner in which you've presented this 
situation. While it may be newsworthy, it might damage a decent program when 
we are so in need of more like them. One of your e-mails.

KIM JOHNSON:  Okay. Well, we have: Mr. Daniels, I listen to your show online 
live today. Thank you so much for your continued efforts in exposing Narconon 
for what it is--a front for Scientology. Your guests did a great job and 
you're handling it with the Wickstroms was excellent. You and your co-host 
did a great job and got lots of information out there for all to hear. Thank 
you for taking this on. I know it is not easy and Scientology--

VINCE DANIELS:  You did get a fan letter there. That is a fan letter.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah. I know it is not easy and Scientology has already begun 
to do its nosey investigation of you. Uh-oh, wawawah. Scientology will not 
hold back and will do everything in its power to shudder you into silence. 
Hang on and buckle up. It's bound to be a bumpy ride. Kim Palmer, Niagara 
Falls, Ontario, Canada.

JAY BOATMAN:  All right, and we also have from Becky Beckford. She states: I 
just heard from my son who is at Narconon Stone Hawk in Battle Creek now and 
he tells me how bad it is. He called me to tell me. You have information on 
this, could you please e-mail or fax it to me? And she gives her fax and her 
phone number. Thank you, Betty Beckford.

KIM JOHNSON:  Mr. Daniels, it's my understanding that you think Narconon, 
that the Narconon program is not a good treatment plan. I do [not] know every 
detail about their program but I can tell you that this program is the only 
thing, in my opinion, that saved my son's life. My son had a 20-year 
addiction to crack cocaine. I personally, with the help of my family and 
loved ones, sought help for him through all of the most respected treatment 
plans. He tried five other treatment plans before going through Narconon. 
When he completed the Narconon program he was a new person. He was able to 
totally change his life. He is now enjoying a successful business career and 
is planning a family. He is and has been without any addiction for five 
years. I wouldn't care what program helped him but it happened to be that it 
was the Narconon program was the only one that worked. I could never express 
how glad I am that finally he could get the help he needed. It was a long, 
hard road for our whole family but after five years I feel confident that 
Narconon values and treatments work. A concerned mother for 20 years, L. 
Maru.

VINCE DANIELS:  Listen, people say that we don't give the other side of 
things. I want to make sure we read that stuff, you know.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah. Do we have one more?

JAY BOATMAN:  We have one more, one last one, a quick one here from, I 
believe this is a Barbara Graham?

VINCE DANIELS:  No, Barbara Schwartz.

JAY BOATMAN:  Okay, there's a Graham here. Vince Daniels, did you mention my 
name deliberately on your show to spice up boring--and then it's scratched 
off here. You have Barb Graham and your show.

VINCE DANIELS:  No. Okay, I know about this one. You know, okay, no, that's 
the whole problem. You almost got her name wrong, too, and it's easy to. You 
know, the reason that I--what happened is, I'll tell you a little bit what 
happened here. I went home last week and I went on the 
alt.fan.religion.scientology board and I saw that particular e-mail. In fact, 
I even got an e-mail, a funny one, in my personal box from Barbara Graham of 
San Diego. Now, Barbara Graham has been on this show before and what had 
happened is I had meant to say her name last week to our guests that we had 
on the phone but I had inadvertently said "Barbara Schwartz" which is easy to 
do if you go on the alt.fan.religion.scientology board. For example, have you 
ever noticed these people that could just leave post after post after post, 
that it just covers an entire page and blocks everybody out? I mean, Barbara 
Schwartz, Barbara Schwartz, Barbara Schwartz, Barbara Schwartz, all the way 
on down the list, so the name just happened to be fresh in my mind but I 
actually meant to say Barbara Graham.

Listen, I apologized to Barbara Graham for that but because, to be very 
honest with you, Barbara Graham is a delightful lady and the thing with 
Barbara Schwartz, what does she say there, Jay?

JAY BOATMAN:  Well, it was a short comment she gave you. It was that did you 
mention her name deliberately on your show?

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, she needs to get over herself. [Laughter] No, I did not 
do that. As a matter of fact, all right. You know, I've never met the lady 
before, but have you ever met these types of people that, okay, picture 
somebody that just sits at home at their computer, has about six or seven 
cats swirling around them.

JAY BOATMAN:  Are we really going to talk about Crystal again when she's not 
here? We've talked about this.

VINCE DANIELS:  But picture somebody, her cats are screaming out for food. 
Okay, she's sitting at the computer. [Laughter] No, I mean, it just, you 
know, God. I mean, I think about it and, you know.

KIM JOHNSON:  And, you know, can I add? I'm glad that we've got a mixed 
mailbag and I'm glad that this is stirring something up because actually for 
me, it wasn’t a conflict of necessarily the Scientology. It was just an 
admission, like if that's something, and it was a hygiene issues. Send us 
some pictures, you know? I'm glad we stimulated debate.

JAY BOATMAN:  Uh-hmm. No, it's very true. Glad that we do stimulate debate 
about this, and Vinnie, you've had a great success so far with the 
Scientology.

VINCE DANIELS:  What else does it say in that thing that she wrote there? Do 
I owe her some apology or something like that?

JAY BOATMAN:  Well, I mean, Vinnie, she doesn't say that but, you know, maybe 
do you owe her an apology maybe for mentioning her name?

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, you know what? I'm just sorry I spent the last minute 
and a half even talking about her, okay? It's not that she's--you know, she's 
not a dangerous person or anything. I think if she just stays in her trailer 
she'll be all right, you know? [Laughter]

KIM JOHNSON:  I feel like I've walked in on something that's been going on 
for a while.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, this lady just needs to just, honest to God, from what 
I can see, she just needs to get over herself. She claims that she is 
related, that she is a descendent of Ike Eisenhower and of L. Ron Hubbard and 
she's got everybody believing this stuff, and that she's just God's gift. In 
fact, she's tried to get on the--

KIM JOHNSON:  Is she high up in the Scientology program?

VINCE DANIELS:  No, she thinks she is. She's been trying to get on this show. 
Actually I invited her just as a courtesy one and she just said no. She 
turned down the offer and said that she doesn't want to be the greatest 
guest. I guess she's holding up her money or something. I don't know. 
[Laughter]

KIM JOHNSON:  She doesn't want to be the greatest guest ever?

VINCE DANIELS:  Yeah. She just, you know, doesn't want me to get spoiled, you 
know. But anyway. [Laughter]

KIM JOHNSON:  Oh, I love this. My second show and it's already, it's just 
woooo!

VINCE DANIELS:  The lady is a character. It's sort of like--I'll tell you, 
between her and Per Wickstrom last week, do you remember how he just jumped--

KIM JOHNSON:  --like MTV where like the fighters in the ring.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, you remember how he just jumped on the phone last week? 
He has this over--it's like when you call him on the phone. It's "This is Per 
Wickstrom." Has almost that Orson Welles voice to him. It's like--

RECORDED VOICE:  This is Per Wickstrom, ladies and gentlemen.

VINCE DANIELS:  That kind of thing. [Laughter] We can have a lot of fun with 
this guy. He can become a real character on this show. You know, here is 
another thing.

KIM JOHNSON:  He'll just pop up.

JAY BOATMAN:  He sounds like a character from like Charlie and the Chocolate 
Factory or something like that.

VINCE DANIELS:  It does, it does.

RECORDED VOICE:  This is Per Wickstrom, ladies and gentlemen.

VINCE DANIELS:  Can you hear the Orson Welles? I added Orson to the end of 
that there. It's him. He has that overpowering presence to him. [Laughter] 
God, you know. I actually hear that he said to somebody last week that it 
looks like I'm going to have to fly out to Los Angeles and be on the radio, 
obviously referring to this show. Bring it on. If he wants to come here, I 
would be more than happy to have him sit here.

JAY BOATMAN:  Absolutely, absolutely.

KIM JOHNSON:  Bring some current pictures of the hygienic state of things. 
I'm curious for that.

VINCE DANIELS:  Yeah. I would like--

KIM JOHNSON:  Do have to say though, did you watch Entertainment Tonight? 
John Travolta actually, very openly, stated that he wished that he'd been 
there for Anna Nicole or had done something, and said that, you know, there 
were a lot of places that he knew of. And he outwardly admitted that 
Scientology and Narconon related and associated. So I was actually, you know, 
I saw that--

VINCE DANIELS:  This is Sunday, right, after we did the show?

KIM JOHNSON:  It was right after that, the Sunday after--yeah, it was on TV 
after our show and I hadn't seen the YouTube yet. I had no idea any of this 
was going on.

VINCE DANIELS:  And they're listening. I know. I could tell you what. I go 
into my site sometimes just to see who is--because I have the ability to see 
who is on my site and I see Tom Cruise's name pop up there.

KIM JOHNSON:  Well, you know what? Hey, I have no--I just want honest 
discussion, so I thought it was great. Good for him for saying that.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

KIM JOHNSON:  That's what I was saying on the air that I wanted to see 
happen, and so if something good comes from this. And, you know, it doesn't 
have to be that all the Narconon facilities are like this, but if this is 
something that exposes one that perhaps isn't using the money correctly or 
isn't, maybe there are unclean and unsafe conditions there, and if that's 
what this is about and if something happens from that, then good. Argument 
doesn't have to be ugly and name-calling at the end of the day, you know. I'm 
open to learning lots of things in my life, every day I hope, so.

VINCE DANIELS:  But like you said last week to one of the--I think it was to 
Per Wickstrom.

RECORDED VOICE:  This is Per Wickstrom, ladies and gentlemen.

JAY BOATMAN:  I'm going to get sick of that. [Laughter]

VINCE DANIELS:  I think that, like you said, if they're that honest and open, 
I mean, why don't they just come right out up front and say that this is 
Scientology?

KIM JOHNSON:  You know what? I think they're--

JAY BOATMAN:  Right on their Web site. It's on their Web site. They talk 
about it and I don't understand that.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, the way they do it, the way they do it, and I've heard 
from so many people that--I was talking to a lady yesterday and I've heard 
this from a couple of people--that they go on Google and they want drug rehab 
centers and they always say the same thing: "Wow, I had to go with this place 
because everything just points back to Stone Hawk and Narconon." Well, yeah, 
that's because they designed it that way so that you would think that way and 
get fooled into that and think that they are the only place that you could 
possibly go to. These marketing people have sat up and they figured this out 
and that's what's worked for them and that's why they get so many people. 
It's not some godsend or happenstance. It was set up that way purposely. And 
people then, of course, a lot of parents, for example, blame themselves. 
"What did I do to my son and daughter?" Well, you didn't do anything. You 
know, it's not that you're naïve, it's not that you--you know, you fell for 
it only because everybody else is falling for it because that's the way they 
put it out there for people. So I don't blame them one bit for any of this.

And you know, oftentimes I say things like that to parents of, or I'll say 
this to survivors of sexual assault but the same applies here. It's not your 
fault. You didn't know. You were--I don't like to use the word "duped." 
You're not a stupid person and, like I say, you're not gullible. It's just 
that you went to a Web site, you clicked on it like anybody else would do, 
and everything led back to something that was deceptive. You're right, they 
don't--Kim, you're right, they don't come out and just say Scientology, and 
what does that say that they don't say that they're Scientology?

KIM JOHNSON:  It says a lot of things to me, and I've actually, you know, 
I've gone home and done some research on this. I used to speak in shelters. 
I'm very heavily involved with the women's organization called Millennium 
Women who've put single mothers back through college, so I am for anything. I 
believe in assistance and giving a helping hand, so I am, you know, if 
something does work I'm curious to follow through on this and see where it 
goes because I am for coming to an answer and maybe making some big changes 
if it need be so that they can come out and say it. We'll see where it goes.

This is a--I am excited to be a part of this. This is a big--I think this is 
a big deal, I think this is a big discussion and I think it's an important 
one. I think it's a very, very important one and I think mental health in 
this country and in this world is important to address.

JAY BOATMAN:  Vinnie, we do have a--

VINCE DANIELS:  Okay, but before we put callers on the air, Jay, we like to 
know who they are.

JAY BOATMAN:  Actually she's Linda from San Bernardino.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, okay, yeah. Hey, go ahead, Linda. Welcome. Good morning.

KIM JOHNSON:  Hi, Linda.

LINDA:  I just wanted to mention that yesterday on John and Ken they had a 
woman on there named Denise and then a doctor by the name of Linda. Their big 
complaint about this Scientology and Narconon is they've got this three-story 
facility right there on Balboa Peninsula and the residents are just up in 
arms because there are over a hundred of these places. And this main facility 
is, it's like they're, I don't know, but anyway, they have like 40 beds. They 
only have three parking spaces. It's just disrupting the community and 
they've got all of these people. Anyway, I just thought I would mention that 
and--

VINCE DANIELS:  They're talking about Narconon on John and Ken now, are they?

LINDA:  Yes.

VINCE DANIELS:  John and Ken listen to the Vinnie Daniels show.

JAY BOATMAN:  Wow.

VINCE DANIELS:  That's what I really take from all of this.

JAY BOATMAN:  Yeah, absolutely.

LINDA:  Their big complaint was the fact that they can't fight this.

JAY BOATMAN:  How are they disrupting the community? What has the community 
done about it?

LINDA:  Well--

JAY BOATMAN:  I mean, in what ways are they disrupting the community?

LINDA:  There are so many. Because it's only a 1.5 mile radius and, you know, 
I mean, it's very small and they've got over a hundred of these homes. And 
this one facility, like I said, they only have three parking spaces but 
they've got all these kinds of cars and patients and people and emergencies. 
And when they complain, because of these powerful attorneys they've got on 
staff, they just, you know, pulverize them. But anyway, they're still 
fighting it and John and Ken had them on the air, so I just thought I'd 
mention that to you. I thought it was interesting.

VINCE DANIELS:  Thanks, Linda, for comments.

KIM JOHNSON:  Thank you.

VINCE DANIELS:  And so John and Ken's producers are listening to the Vince 
Daniels Show.

JAY BOATMAN:  [Inaudible]

VINCE DANIELS:  That's all I'm thinking about during this call. I'm not even 
thinking about what she was saying. [Laughter] I knew we were going to start 
the fire and then other people are going to pick it up.

WOMAN:  Craig in Loma Linda.

VINCE DANIELS:  Yeah, let's talk to Craig in Loma Linda. Good morning, Craig.

KIM JOHNSON:  Hi, Craig.

CRAIG:  Hey, good morning, everybody.

VINCE DANIELS:  Yes.

KIM JOHNSON:  Good morning.

CRAIG:  Hey, has anybody ever read or talked to anyone who's read the book--
it's out of print--called L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?

JAY BOATMAN:  Not [inaudible], why? What should we be paying attention to?

CRAIG:  Well, this is a book that I read about ten years ago. It's out of 
print and it's written by L. Ron Hubbard Jr.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

CRAIG:  And it basically describes--it just goes, a list of how evil his 
father is and all the things that his father has done in life to hurt people 
and create a building of his own ego.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

CRAIG:  And I was just wondering like how come? I've listened to this show 
three times as far as this subject goes, Scientology. It's very interesting. 
You led me to I think it's called Clamback.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm, yes, Clambake.org, yeah.

CRAIG:  Yeah, and did some research there and it seems to all tie together. 
It goes back to what L. Ron Hubbard Jr. says about his dad. He just wanted to 
create a predatory organization that brings in money.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

CRAIG:  And he had lots and lots of anecdotes, of personal anecdotes, with 
his father about this. And there was a disclaimer at the back of the book 
saying that the book was not supposed to be published and L. Ron Hubbard Jr. 
withdrew permission to publish it but they went ahead and did it anyway.

KIM JOHNSON:  Do you still have a copy of the book?

CRAIG:  No. I had it as a youngster when I lost it, but I'm sure you can find 
it at out-of-print stores. It's just called L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman 
or maybe it's Madman or Messiah. But I was also wondering, here locally, is 
there anything going on in Crestline as far as these people go that you know 
about?

VINCE DANIELS:  No. We've been focusing a lot, mostly, Craig, on the new 
Narconon facility of course getting ready to open up in Leona Valley, and so 
we've been focusing on that. And really lately we've been talking a lot about 
the Stone Hawk facility in Battle Creek just because of everything that's 
going on there. So I'm not really up to speed on that, I have to say.

CRAIG:  Oh, okay. Well, I don't have anything further to add but I appreciate 
the--

VINCE DANIELS:  If you find out anything, just VinceDaniels@vincedaniels.com, 
just e-mail me. I'd appreciate anything.

CRAIG:  Okay. Then also on my own life, one time I did take those personality 
tests a long time ago. I was age 16 when I did it.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-huh.

CRAIG:  They started harassing me for a good--it took about 16 years before 
they stopped bothering me through the mail, threatening me.

KIM JOHNSON:  Really.

CRAIG:  Sending me letters saying all sorts of things would be done to my 
future, you know, as far as finances go, one time offering me an amnesty if I 
would just admit wrongdoing, they would forgive the debt.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, see, that's what they're all about, Craig. It's all 
about scaring people into silence.

CRAIG:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  But the thing is you stood up to them, obviously. You've 
withstood it. They didn't do anything to you, did they?

CRAIG:  No, no. I didn't even have the money that they wanted anyway. I was 
16 years old. [Laughs]

VINCE DANIELS:  They're all talk, believe me. They're blowhards, just like 
this Per Wickstrom is. Did you listen last week?

CRAIG:  I missed you last week but I did hear the show, it was about four 
weeks ago.

VINCE DANIELS:  Somewhere, you know what? Write me, 
VinceDaniels@vincedaniels.com, I'll send you the YouTube of last week's show.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah.

CRAIG:  Oh, yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  That's great stuff.

KIM JOHNSON:  It was good.

VINCE DANIELS:  It was a great show.

CRAIG:  Okay, thank you.

VINCE DANIELS:  Hey, thank you, Craig. Thank you, Craig. Hey, the 
VinceDaniels.com Weekly Poll, let me tell you what's going on here real 
quick. Last week's poll, what did you think about the new dollar coin, and 
actually what got the most votes at 38%, "It's a very nice tribute to George 
Washington." And tying at 25%, "What new dollar coin?" and "It's just a 
waste, just like the Susan B. Anthony coin." So that tells you a clear 
majority just don't--it's 50% right there--they don't care; 12% "It might be 
of value to coin collectors but I'm not interested in it." Kind of a mixed 
bag there.

[Vince tells the listeners the new poll is up on the Web site and gives the 
Question of the Week, which stories in the news do they care most about, and 
reads the choices to vote on. Jay and Kim voice their opinions on the 
stories.]

VINCE DANIELS:  Let me ask you this question. Between JetBlue's new Customer 
Bill of Rights and our--and I'm being very serious with this question, and 
I'm talking about on a scale which you would think would be important--would 
you say JetBlue's new Customer Bill of Rights or--don't laugh--this story 
we're doing about Stone Hawk as far as importance and what should matter?

JAY BOATMAN:  To the country as a whole?

VINCE DANIELS:  What should be covered nationally?

JAY BOATMAN:  I would say definitely what we're doing here with the Stone 
Hawk and the Church of Scientology, absolutely, because--

VINCE DANIELS:  Yup, I agree.

JAY BOATMAN:  The JetBlue thing is something that, I mean, it's news but 
it's--

VINCE DANIELS:  It's going to pass.

JAY BOATMAN:  Big deal. That's it, they took care of it, but this is more of 
a long-term issue with an organization that has been going on for decades.

VINCE DANIELS:  That's what I think the answer is right there.

JAY BOATMAN:  And a lot of people vouch for it of a lot of importance like 
Tom Cruise and all these people that, so, yeah, I think, but everyone is 
afraid to tackle the issue.

VINCE DANIELS:  Go ahead.

KIM JOHNSON:  I don't have TV. Well, I have one but I only watch movies, and 
I watch the computer, like snippets of stuff. I have to admit, I don't know 
what you're talking about when said the JetBlue stuff.

VINCE DANIELS:  Jay, fill her in a little bit.

[Jay talks about the JetBlue issue.]

KIM JOHNSON:  They're making good press out of it. They're making lemonade 
out of lemons.

JAY BOATMAN:  There you go.

KIM JOHNSON:  The stuff we're doing is more important.

VINCE DANIELS:  I think so, and I picked these two because they're both 
consumer based.

JAY BOATMAN:  They are. They're absolutely consumer based.

KIM JOHNSON:  Absolutely. I go with--Vinnie, I'm going with you, buddy.

JAY BOATMAN:  There you go.

VINCE DANIELS:  --and Jay on this, good. You're in good company. [Laughter] 
Anyway, we're going to come back on the other side and we're going to let the 
Wolf-B [phonetic] go into it as a lead up to the 11:00 hour when Ron D. Young 
joins us from Grassfire.org, because, Kim, as you're getting to know Jay a 
little bit, as much as you like him, you've got some issues with him.

KIM JOHNSON:  Well, yeah. I don't know if they're with him [laughter] but 
it's with a certain situation in his life that I'm going to, you know.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, that brings him here and brings him to the table.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  And we're going to look at it here.

KIM JOHNSON:  And I'd appreciate the dialog, so.

VINCE DANIELS:  And you'll have it here.

KIM JOHNSON:  We'll shake hands first and go for it.

JAY BOATMAN:  There you go. That's always good.

VINCE DANIELS:  We'll do it, just five minutes away. It is quarter to the 
hour here. You're listening to "The Many Moods."

RECORDED VOICE:  This is Per Wickstrom, ladies and gentlemen.

[End of Segment 1.]