From: chimento@neuron.arc.nasa.gov (Thomas Chimento) Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Followup-To: rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Making Planes Date: 21 Sep 1995 15:55:27 GMT Organization: Biocomputation Center (Sterling Software) Message-ID: References: <199509191931.OAA02898@plains.nodak.edu> > At 03:45 PM 9/19/95 GMT, you wrote: > >I've been reading some articles in > >Fine_Woodworking_on_Planes_and_Chisels, and I'm thinking > >about making a plane or two. Any thoughts? > WARNING!!! LONG POSTING BELOW!! Here are the responses to a question about making planes I posted some time ago. Lots of references to books and articles, lots of good suggestions and sources. Go nuts! Thomas > I would like to make a few wooden planes. I know there are some books on > the subject and there are probably many good articles written over the > years. Could anyone that has references for books and owns copies of > articles e-mail me the relevant information. I will ask the owners of old > magazine articles to snail mail me a photocopy of the article. I'll be > happy to pay for copy cost and postage (envelopes too). If everyone that > has information e-mails it to me I will compile the responses (remove > duplicates, etc.) and post the final results. Thanks. > > Thomas Chimento Ph.D. chimento@neuron.arc.nasa.gov =============================================================== Sender: pccop@unix.portal.com Regarding your request for information on making woodworking planes, these books have good information on the subject. Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools, Jim Kingshott, Guild of Master Craftsman Publications Ltd. This is one of the best books I have ever found on the subject. This guy is a real master craftsman/Toolmaker in the old sense of the word. I only wish I could approach the skill level Jim demonstrates in his book. Covers both wood and metal planes with detailed discussion on reproducing some of the older (and rare) British planes like the Norris. Best in the bunch. Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools, Michael Dunbar, Sterling Publishing Co., New York More towards restoration but good info on restoration/conversion. Custom Tools for Wordworkers, J. Petrovich, Stackpole Books Chapter 8 covers a wooden smooth plane and a chariot plane. Good beginners book. Fifty Years a Planemaker and User, Cecil E. Pierce, Monmouth Press, Monmouth Maine Short but excellent book. Wooden planes only. Building Classic Small Craft, Vol. 2, John Gardner, International Marine Publishing Company, Camden, Maine The last chapter of the book is a excellent discussion on boat builder's planes and their method of construction. John Gardner is a legend in the traditional wooden boat building community. The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking, James Krenov, Van Nostrand Reinhold Company Excellent chapter on wooden planes. I would like to receive a listing once you compile it. Hope these are helpful. I'm especially interested in info on making spar plane for small traditional boats. =============================================================== From: Patrick Leach Get a copy of Wooden Planes in 19th Century America, vol II, by Kenneth Roberts. There are many pages of how to make traditional American and English molding planes. The bulk of the book is dedicated to the planemaking firm of the Chapin family of Connecticut. The collection of planes is amazing, which a fellow rec.norm'er and I had the pleasure of fondling last week. =============================================================== From: vincent.j.miller.4@nd.edu (Vince Miller) _FWW on Planes and Chisels_, several good articles on making various dift types of planes. =============================================================== From: dave_burnard@taligent.com (Dave Burnard) Are you interested only in western style wooden planes, or are you also interested in Japanese style wooden planes. I can point you at several articles on Japanese planes, or can show you myself as I've made/modified a dozen or so by now... Living in the Bay Area you have easy access to Japanese blades, which are slightly tapered in length, and as a result much easier to secure in a simple wooden block. No need for complicated hold down screw/bolts, etc. With or without a chipbreaker, your choice. I have an article (Woodwork Issue #15) that describes how to make a Japanese plane. I can't testify to the accuracy/simplicity etc of the article since I already had made a few planes since the article came out, and I haven't really read it very carefully. I can Xerox it if you'd like... I can also explain/demonstrate the steps so you can see it once before reading about it. I'm just finishing up two planes now, one as a gift, and another as an alternate block (lower angle) for one of my existing planes. Work is keeping me busy, but I do have to finish the gift plane by the 3rd. If we could get together some evening next week that would be really timely... There's a fellow who teaches Japanese woodworking classes here in the bay area, and he's who I learned from. Unfortunately you literally just missed his annual plane making class (it was the 12/13th). I always go (4-5 times now) and try something new. One year it was scrapers, then finishing planes, then a blade cut from some special Japanese finger plane blade stock, this year I tried out domestic white oak for some large (60mm) finishing planes. You always learn something new... You can get ahold of me at 408-777-5409 (work) or 408-252-3282 (home) to set up a visit. =============================================================== From: Jeff Gorman Try "Woodwork Aids & Devices" - Robert Wearing - ISBN 0237 4495 1 - Evans Bros Ltd Cost 6.96 Uk pounds - Pub 1981 He suggests a laminated construction which avoids the use of the specialised floats and suchlike that the planemakers used. =============================================================== From: si 08-Tom Ellis In "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", James Krenov gives a thorough explanation of how he builds his. These are slightly different from the traditional wooden planes, but are well regarded. This book is worth buying as well for reading about his general approach to woodworking. Also in (I think) the Garrett Wade catalog there is a low price booklet on making wooden planes...something I keep telling myself I'm going to order real soon now. Finally, I just bought a book by a British author, which I think is called Essentail Shop Aids and Fixtures. In this book he builds a wooden plane with a hand-made version of the Ulmia (?) blade adjuster that you see on wooded planes in mail order catalogs. =============================================================== From: pgilbo@mindspring.com (Paul A. Guilbault) I just read your post to rec.woodworking about books on making wooden planes. Just so happens that I bought a fairly good book today. The title of the book is "Fine Woodworking on Planes and Chisels." The ISBN is 0-918804-28-0. This is a collection of plane related articles from past issues of Fine Woodworking magazine. There are several plane building articles. In one of the articles there is a reference to a 2 volume set of books entitled "Wooden Planes in 19th-Century America." Author is Kenneth Roberts. Publisher - Kenneth Roberts Publishing Company, Fitzwilliam, NH. It states that volume two contains "the most comprehensive material ever published on making wooden planes." Paul A. Guilbault =============================================================== From: rhock@mcn.org (Ron Hock) We offer plans and kits for wooden planes (blades, too, of course.) Send snail-mail address for brochure. Ron Hock Hock Handmade Knives ============================================================== From: cmosley@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Christopher Mosley) 15 years ago I read a book on making jigs etc.. I think it had the word ``jigs'' in the title (it may have been a British publication. It had plans for all sorts of planes: a toothing plane, planes with german style (non bailey) blade depth adjustment, dado plane, scraper plane ( i.e. with scraper mounted at obtuse angle and having an adjustment to flex the scraper for deeper cuts. I only remember one of the non plane projects, it was a table saw jig for making finger joints. I would be grateful if anybody could tell me the title of this book. It was maybe ~250 pages. And the jacket had a group portrait of the various projects. cmosley ============================================================== From: te165@randr.com ( Tom Ellis ) Subject: Re-mouthing a wooden plane I have a traditional wooden jack plane, bought from Garret Wade many years ago. The body is 2 7/8" square, and 17" long. It's the open tote design that is sometimes referred to as a "carpenter's plane". I have never been able to get the cut I want with this tool. The cut is either too aggressive or too light (doesn't pull a complete shaving). I believe the problem is that the throat opening is too large (it's 7/64" at the best blade setting I can achieve). All the articles I have read on re-mouthing a wooden plane show the use of an insert or plug: sometimes wider than the throat opening, sometimes the same width. It seems to me that it would be much easier to cut a dado the full width of the sole, and fit the replacement wood into the dado. This would also avoid the issue of different rates of expansion/contraction between the insert and the plane body. Why is this not an accepted idea? Does it weaken the plane? Or is it just considered poor craftsmanship? Tom Ellis Life is a barbie doll beyond my ken. =============================================================== From: markw@nsa.hp.com (Mark Williams) Subject: Re: Re-mouthing a wooden plane Tom Ellis (te165@randr.com) wrote: : I have a traditional wooden jack plane, : I have never been able to get the cut I want with this tool. : The cut is either too aggressive or too light (doesn't pull a : complete shaving). The bottom must be flat and the blade square to get a full width thin shaving. It's much harder than you might think to bring it in. I start by making the blade edge square, straight and very sharp. Next confirm that the body is fairly flat, especially at the mouth. "Make it so". : I believe the problem is that the throat opening is too large (it's : 7/64" at the best blade setting I can achieve). Yep, too wide. : All the articles I have read on re-mouthing a wooden plane show the use : of an insert or plug: sometimes wider than the throat opening, : sometimes the same width. It seems to me that it would be much easier : to cut a dado the full width of the sole, and fit the replacement wood : into the dado. This would also avoid the issue of different rates of : expansion/contraction between the insert and the plane body. This was a routine practice as wood bodied planes wear and were jointed. The practice recommended by Michael Dunbar in his "Restoring, Tuning and Using Classic Woodworking Tools" is to insert a patch with the grain running parallel to the length of the body, and of the same type (usually beech). This should minimize the differential expansion of body and patch. Planes are almost always remouthed with a shallow mortice only the width of the mouth, as opposed to a full body width dado. Make the mouth almost closed, and joint it only as needed for chip clearance. To pull a thin, full width shaving, the mouth must be narrow and flat, and the blade must be parallel to it and only a few thousandths lower. This usually requires some patient tweaking. I have seen old wood bodied planes with an adjustable mouth, an iron plate with a bolt tightening it. The problem is the body wears, but the plate doesn't, so you have to deepen its mortice. Ulmia uses a wood insert for the adjustable mouth, now I realize why. : Why is this not an accepted idea? Does it weaken the plane? Or is : it just considered poor craftsmanship? A little of both. It is marginally stronger. There is a certain pride in making the patch hard to detect. Fellow craftsmen say "Ahh..." instead of "What the..." =============================================================== From: bryan@guruma.isrc.sandia.gov (Jon R. Bryan) Tom Ellis (te165@randr.com) wrote: <...text deleted> : All the articles I have read on re-mouthing a wooden plane show the use : of an insert or plug: sometimes wider than the throat opening, : sometimes the same width. It seems to me that it would be much easier : to cut a dado the full width of the sole, and fit the replacement wood : into the dado. <...text deleted> Why not slice 1/4" off the sole, glue on a new sole and recut the mouth. I just bought some nice slices of 1/4" hop hornbeam from Hartford Woodworks in Maine to use for plane soles. Upon further reflection, the dado idea is actually pretty good. It would carry less risk of chipping the new mouth since you could fit two separate pieces. Use a different wood and call the contrasting edges "racing stripes" :). I say go for it. -- Jon R. Bryan 505-844-2015 <=> bryan@isrc.sandia.gov Intelligent System Sensors and Controls Dept. 2111 Sandia National Laboratories P.O. Box 5800, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185-0949 =============================================================== From: Patrick Leach Tom Ellis writes: > It seems to me that it would be much easier >to cut a dado the full width of the sole, and fit the replacement wood >into the dado. This would also avoid the issue of different rates of >expansion/contraction between the insert and the plane body. A guy before you did just that, and received a patent for the idea, albeit he didn't do it with wood as you suggest. The guy, named Achenbach, out of Reading, PA, laid metal wear strips into dados cut across the width of the plane. One was placed at the front of the mouth and another toward the rear. This was done in an attempt to prevent the plane's sole from wearing, and, thus, opening the throat. It never proved popular since wooden planes were on the way out (his patent was in 1885, and by then only a handful of wooden plane makers were in business), and because wear still occured to the sole in the areas (toe and heel) not bounded by the strips. Patrick Leach =============================================================== From: rhock@mcn.org (Ron Hock) In article , Randy Roeder says: > >Ron, > > I'm glad to see your reply. Have you ever thought about making your >cutters a bit thinner so that they would fit the older Stanley planes >without modification? Since most Stanley planes are collectible and >widening the mouth decreases the collector's value, I would think that >there would be a positive response to slightly thinner blades. > > Since your high-quality cutters are so popular, a not insignificant >number of beautiful old planes are going to be altered (many of them >poorly) by well-meaning individuals who have little idea of what they are >doing. > > None of this is intended as a flame. I'm glad that someone in this >country is still producing a decent cutter. (I've heard that the blades that >you're supplying Lie-Nielson are just great.) > > I still stand by my statement, however, that it doesn't make sense to >buy a replacement cutter that won't fit your tool, and then try to jury-rig a >fit for it -- especially when it involves mutilating an antique. > > As it is, retailers are advising people to buy your cutters in the >mistaken belief that they will fit all Stanley planes. > >Randy Roeder > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Randy, We buy our stock as precision ground 3/32" thick. That's as close as we can get without going thinner than standard blades. For us to grind it thinner would add too much to the cost of already pricey blades (I know, I know, they ain't cheap.) For the most part, the additional thickness is an asset and in 12 years and thousands of blades the posting that started all this was the first I've heard of this problem. Either the problem is that rare or everyone is willing and able to do the modification to make the blade work. No one has ever returned a blade for being too thick nor even complained about it. I have a hunch that all this is the execption and that 99.9% of all the planes will accept the blade without any metalworking. I'm not a collector or dealer of antique tools, but since even normal tuning and maintenance of a plane involves some removal of metal (flattening the sole, squaring the sides, truing the frog and setting the mouth) only an unused plane in the as-purchased condition would pass your test of pristeneness. I find it hard to believe that removing .005" or so of metal from the rear edge of the mouth slot would render a collectable plane worthless (please let me know the level of my ignorance here. It sounds like you know more about collecting tools than I.) Anyone reluctant to alter a plane simply shouldn't do it. That person is welcome to have a machine shop surface-grind the blade to the required dimension. I see a real confict between the using and the collecting of tools. I have no solutions to this. If I still owned my '30 Model A (I'm not as old as that makes me sound -- I bought it in the early sixties when I was 14), I wouldn't use it for everyday driving; it's just too risky. So doesn't normal wear and tear of tools reduce their value and if so, why use them? I understand and share the attraction to old tools. But if they're too precious to get the job done, I'll use something else. Back to the original problem; let's hope it's sufficiently isolated that all this is academic. I appreciate your input and hope to hear back about tool collecting, etc. Oh, yeah, I don't make Lie-Nielsen's blades though I wish we did. He's making a good product -- no one has ever asked us to make a blade for one of his tools. -- Ron =============================================================== From: ssuther215@aol.com (SSuther215) Subject: Re: cleaning wooden planes? I've accumulated a number of wooden body planes. A product which I've used successfully on all types of cleaning is Briwax. It is a solvent/wax mixture. The secret of its use is how it is applied. For very light cleaning, one uses a cloth. A little more aggressive cleaning calls for scotchbrite type pads. If you really want to do heavy cleaning, use various grades of steel wool. In each case, it leaves a nice waxed surface. Briwax comes in clear and various colors. Use clear for most cleaning. It also works for some metal and leather cleaning. Look for it in catalogs and some antique stores. Stan Suther -- Thomas Chimento chimento@neuron.arc.nasa.gov