To: Harry.Bovik@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Cat Problem [using back yard as litterbox] From: Thomas.McGinnis@SEGNO.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:16:43 EST Message-ID: <749.721934203@SEGNO.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU> Harry, Enclosed are the responses to my question about cat poop. If you're interested, I will probably try pepper first, then nutmeg (and maybe mothballs, though I fear my 3-year-old might become too interested in them for comfort). If that fails, maybe a store-bought rememdy, maybe a squirt gun :-) . Special thanks to Mitzi Morris (who must be either ironically or pseudonymically named :-) ), who pointed out a recent discussion on rec.gardens. I was able to retrieve choice bits of it from the WAIS rec.gardens.src, and have included them at the end of the local messages. Very truly yours, Tom. ------- Forwarded Messages From: tfm+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas McGinnis) Subject: Cat problem Summary: How do I get rid of cats? Keywords: cats, poop, riddance, forward-to-bovik Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:35:50 -0500 (At least I think it's a cat problem -- I haven't noticed any free-range dogs in my neighborhood.) So, the neighborhood cats seem to have designated my back yard as a four star place to poop. Is there anything I can spread around to discourage them (besides purina cat poison*)? Responses will be forwarded to Bovik. Thanks. Tom. (* Animal lovers and other flamers: I am an animal lover myself, and cats are more than welcome to use my back yard when I'm not around (I'm allergic, and tend to shoo them away when I'm there), but I don't let even my closest friends *poop* all over the place!) - -- Thomas F. McGinnis tfm+@cs.cmu.edu School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891 Any opinions are mine except where noted, and not necessarily those of CMU. spes mea in Deo nunc scripsi totum da mihi potum ------- Message 2 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:44:35 -0500 (EST) From: Jeanette_Dravk@transarc.com To: Thomas.McGinnis@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas McGinnis) Subject: Re: Cat problem Hi, Way back when, when I used to work in a hardware store in HS, I remember we had these twist-tie like things that supposedly repelled dogs and cats. You just tied them on to things around the forbidden area; trees, trash cans, shrubs, etc. and voila, no pesks. I haven't seen them around lately, but then, I haven't really been looking. Give your friendly hardware store or pet shop a call and ask. Good luck. j- ------- Message 3 From: Nick Haines Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:46:03 EST To: Thomas McGinnis Subject: Cat problem Get a cat. Never fails. Cats bury their crap when they do it on their own turf; it's only if they can find somewhere else to crap that they don't bury it. If you had a cat, it would bury its own and keep other cats away. Never fails. However, you're allergic. I don't have another suggestion. Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu ------- Message 4 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:01-EST From: Thomas.Stricker@PUFFIN.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU To: Thomas McGinnis Subject: Re: Cat problem During dry weather try plain pepper! Biodegradable.. Cats and dogs also sneeze from the dust. Tom ------- Message 5 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:11:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Mitzi E. Morris" To: Thomas.McGinnis@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas McGinnis) Subject: Re: Cat problem this subject was just discussed on netnews.rec.gardens, so you might check there for unexpired messages on the subject. Mitzi ------- Message 6 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: Aimee Dechambeau To: Thomas.McGinnis@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas McGinnis) Subject: Re: Cat problem Tom, Try scattering mothballs around the yard. If it's one place in particular, ground red pepper (expensive though, and only good when the weather is dry...) This usually works for dogs, perhaps it will also work for cats (although maybe a small dog is the culprit, cats usually cover up...) Hope you solve the problem; interesting question! Aimee de. ------- Message 7 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:55:26 EST From: Thomas.Sullivan@DB2.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU To: tfm@CS.CMU.EDU Subject: cat problem I don't know if this will work in your backyard, but out at my stepdad's place, he's got a problem with a cat getting into the garbage cans. He now just takes a large black-pepper shaker out with him when he takes the trash out and sprinkles some on the bags. The cat goes to the can, sniffs the garbage, and gets a burning noseful of pepper. Hasn't bothered the trash in ages. He still does this periodically to teach the strays that may not have gotten the message the lesson as well. They learn pretty quickly. This might not be practical for a backyard though, especially with lots of rain around, but if there is a localized area that they favor, you might give this a try. - --Tom ------- Message 8 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 19:04:36 EST From: Kathryn.Porsche@H.GP.CS.CMU.EDU To: tfm@CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Cat problem Tom-- A long time ago I had a cat that used the front door mat in lieu of our backyard *and* her litterbox (what a charming way to come home from work). A neighbor of mine mentioned using nutmeg as a replellent-- it seemed to work. Good luck! - --Kathie ------- Message 9 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:30:04 EST From: Sandra Ramos To: tfm@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Cat problem Hi Tom! We've been told that cats hate mothballs. Some people apparently use them to keep them out of their property. Dave and I tried it in our garage and it seemed to have worked, although it's hard to say whether the moth balls or the weather were the deciding factors. Since mothballs are pretty cheap, you may want to try them out. Good luck, Sandy P.S.: If you hear about any better remedy, please let us know. We get tons of stinky cats in our garage every once in a while... ------- Message 10 To: Thomas McGinnis In-reply-to: tfm+@cs.cmu.edu's message of Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:35:50 -0500 Subject: Cat problem Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:38:56 EST From: moss@CRAFTY.FOX.CS.CMU.EDU Cats usually bury thir poop, so it may be another animal. You can get strange mixtures from pet stores that discourage animals from using particular places. They tend to have dried blood and other weird stuff in them. Though it won't help you much, cats also will not foul their feeding area :-). Eliot ------- Message 11 From: bona@B.O.S. (bonafonte.patrice) Subject: CATS and LAWN Date: 23 Oct 92 14:41:19 GMT How to prevent cats coming in my garden and shiting on the lawn? Any suggestion welcome except shooting them. ------- Message 12 From: macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: 23 Oct 92 20:23:27 GMT In article <585@vercors.frec.bull.fr> bona@B.O.S. (bonafonte.patrice) writes: >How to prevent cats coming in my garden and shiting on the lawn? >Any suggestion welcome except shooting them. Nobody's ever agreed with me, but I am convinced that keeping the lawn short discourages this behavior, while long grass ( <2") definitely encourages it. I speak as a man who lives in a neighborhood that has cats the way some places have rats :-} Mack Burnham ------- Message 13 From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: 25 Oct 1992 19:07:59 GMT In article <1992Oct25.124635.15129@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes: >bona@B.O.S. (bonafonte.patrice) asks: > >> How to prevent cats coming in my garden and shiting on the lawn? >> Any suggestion welcome except shooting them. > >It is VERY UNLIKELY that feces found ON your lawn are cats'. I have seen at least one cat just let loose on a lawn with no attempt at hole-digging or burying. My neighbor's cat regularly used my garden as a latrine. I finally just let the dog out any time I saw the cat in my yard. The cat came around less often after that.... ------- Message 14 From: bae@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 01:54:45 GMT In article <587@vercors.frec.bull.fr> bona@B.O.S. (bonafonte.patrice) writes: > >I'm sure of cats because I saw them. They try to bury their feces but didn't >succeed of course. Is it due to the lawn species (Ray Grass)? You may have a hmmm, "turf war" going on in your yard. Cats usually seek out easy-digging areas to bury their waste, but tomcats, especially the "top" tomcat in the area, sometimes mark their territories by leaving exposed feces, even scraping up a pile of debris to place them on. This behaviour is seen in some kinds of large wild cats like cougars, as well. The debris piles are called scent posts. It's possible that the cat population has changed in your neighbourhood, and the cats are trying to rearrange their territories. "Top cats" or top cat wannabees are contending for your lawn... I don't know what the solution is, but eventually the feline social order will settle down and exposed ordure will be less common. In the interim you could try shouting at the perpetrators, or spraying them with water. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada ------- Message 15 From: ellie@slumber.sybase.com (Ellen Lewis Lief) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: 29 Oct 92 17:00:39 GMT It may be very unlikely, but it is certainly possible that the cats are poopin' right on the lawn instead of politely digging up your garden like a good cat should. The (numerous) strays in my neighborhood are shameless. They do it all the time. My neighbors feed them so they come to my house to shit. I think healthy cats have a very strong instinct to bury their poop...unhealthy, neglected, over-populated cats get messy and mean (maybe I'm anthropomorphizing... or maybe it's just coincidence that they act like humans do under the same circumstances). One thing I've done that helps a little is sprinkle red pepper flakes, like the kind you sprinkle on pizza, all over everywhere. I buy it in bulk for this purpose. In article <1992Oct25.124635.15129@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes: |> bona@B.O.S. (bonafonte.patrice) asks: |> |> > How to prevent cats coming in my garden and shiting on the lawn? |> > Any suggestion welcome except shooting them. |> |> It is VERY UNLIKELY that feces found ON your lawn are cats'. Cats have a |> strong instinct to BURY there feces. On the lawn is probably from dog, |> or wild animal. If you were in the USA I'd guess skunk, raccoon or |> 'possum, but your address indicates France, and I don't know what wild |> creatures might be night-time visitors there. |> |> --Jill |> -- |> A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | Miller Microcomputer Services | |> InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | |> Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | ------- Message 16 From: olney@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Doug Olney) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: 2 Nov 92 20:36:28 GMT We had a very bad cat invasion this spring. We lost numerous new sprouts in the raised beds, had new cat poop on the lawn each morning, and most hours of the day we could go out the door and find at least one kitty sprinting away. After one particularly bad afternoon scrubbing cat poop out of the carpet from our 2 year olds shoes, I went out and bought 2 lbs of 12 gauge galvanized wire, and a bunch of bird netting. I cut the wire into 18" straight rods, and the netting into 18" strips. Every 5 feet along the fence in the back yard, I press fit a wire rod into a 3/16" hole drilled into the top of the fence, sticking straight out. Then I draped the bird netting over the wire supports, and stapled the netting to the fence. The effect is a net shelf, nearly even with the top of the fence. Now, cats can come into the yard, but they have a heck of a time getting back out. They can get out, but it is very hard. The big Toms hate it, because that can't jump and climb well enough to get around the netting. The cats have climb to the fence (not jump) and nose under the netting- often pulling staples and bending wires. We no longer have any trouble in the raised beds, and we get at most one pile of cat poop a week. We never see cats in our yard anymore. It is just bliss to let the kids out without having to first scope the yard for poop. We are also now the proud host of a wide variety of birds- Robins, Junkets, and one mocking bird (who doesn't sing at night like some do.) The netting is fairly low profile, but it aint real pretty. It cost about $30 to do about 350' of fence. The technique is only good for totally enclosed yards. As to the general subject of cats pooping on lawns: o Cats do in fact poop on lawns. o They never poop on their own lawn. o It usually seems to be part of a turf battle. One cat starts pooping on your lawn, and suddenly you've got several cats pooping on the lawn. o Well cared for cats don't do it. Its the strays and the cats whose owners neglect them 95% of the time who do it. o Chemical repellents don't work well, particularly over extended periods of time. o Humane cat traps work great, except then cat owners hate you. My 2 cents, Doug Olney Santa Rosa, CA ------- Message 17 From: RMCCU@CUNYVM.BITNET (Robert Chambers) Subject: Re: CATS and LAWN Date: 3 Nov 92 19:26:52 GMT In article <4850008@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, olney@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Doug Olney) says: > o Cats do in fact poop on lawns. > o They never poop on their own lawn. > o It usually seems to be part of a turf battle. One > cat starts pooping on your lawn, and suddenly you've got > several cats pooping on the lawn. > o Well cared for cats don't do it. Its the strays and the > cats whose owners neglect them 95% of the time who do it. > o Chemical repellents don't work well, particularly over > extended periods of time. > o Humane cat traps work great, except then cat owners hate > you. A few shots in the backside with a pellet gun dissuades most cats from pooping on the lawn. (And before anybody screams - No, I don't own a gun nor advocate shooting pets). > Doug Olney Robert ------- Message 18 Subject: Litter box front yard From: goss@mtechca.uucp Date: 6 May 92 19:25:42 GMT - -- I'm at a lost. The neighborhood cats are making a very large litter box in my front lawn. I killed my front lawn before they started the litter box, however I have used bleach, moth flakes, and even tried to spray the cats with a water hose and they keep comming back. I really don't want to hurt the cats but I don't know what to use to keep them out of the lawn. Does anyone have any ideas that might help?? please e-mail or post any responces. thanks *<<<<<<<<<<<<< MY OPINIONS ARE MINE AND NOT THAT OF MY EMPLOYER >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>* Derrick D. Goss e-mail: goss@mtechca.uucp Tech. Assistance Center_______MAINTECH:a division of Volt Delta Resources, Inc voice: 1.714.921.7608 2401 North Glassell St. fax: 1.714.921.7510 Orange, CA, USA 92665-2705 ****************** the life you save may be that of your own ******************* *<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< read at your own risk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>* ------- Message 19 From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: Gardens, Lawns as Litter Boxes Date: 8 May 92 20:16:56 -0500 As a devout gardener, and an equally devout cat-lover, let me try to address the problems of cats who claim your yard or flowerbed for a litter box. First, from the cat's point of view: 1) Cats want a place to scratch and cover their leavings (well, most cats-- the top cat in the pecking order often does not cover his). Nicely tilled garden soil, or even bare soil, is often more inviting than a grassy or weedy area. 2) Cats are territorial, and mark their territories by peeing. If a cat can't smell his own mark, he will re-mark. 3) Cats like the smell of cat pee. Sometimes you'll get an entire neighborhood of cats using one spot. From a person's viewpoint: 1) Cat pee stinks, as does catsh--, and you'd just as soon not have it in an area you also want to inhabit. 2) Some cats are infected with a parasite called _Toxoplasma gondii_. This is not a good organism for pregnant women to become infected with, as it affects the fetus quite badly. Doesn't hurt healthy people, though, and many of us have already been exposed and have an immunity built up. T. gondii is passed in infected feces. 3) People are territorial too. Much as I love my cats, there are certain flowerbeds they are NOT allowed to lounge in (at least until the plants are big enough). (I guess I'm lucky in that my cats prefer grassy areas (especially the unmown railroad right of way behind my house), or the litter box. I've got one cat who *has* to come into the litterpan-- I swear I've seen him cross his legs and bounce while howling to be let in!) Solutions that have worked for me (depends on the cat) 1) providing a more attractive alternative area 2) speaking to the owners (my catless aunt had this problem-- I finally got her to talk to the owners who were horrified by the cat's behavior-- the cat now stays inside. 3) keeping the soil very moist -- muddy paws are no fun when you are a cat. 4) covering the area with plastic or foil or cardboard and applying a mixture of corn syrup and hot sauce (a cheap imitation of tabasco). Cats hate sticky feet, and will immediately try to clean their paws. Bleagh!!! 5) sitting guard with a pistol-grip spray on the hose, and waiting for someone to try something... (takes several experiences for most cats, and won't work at all on the really stubborn ones) 6) Chicken wire over the area. All of these require that you attempt to deodorize the area as soon as possible, before you try 1-6, because the territorial marking instinct is _very strong_. If the area is a good organic soil, and the weather is warm, keeping things Strategies that have not worked for me: 1) methyl nonyl ketone repellants like No! (tm) 2) Ropel (tm) 3) stakes driven into the ground at frequent intervals. 4) aluminum foil on the soil 5) yelling Hope this is of some help. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI ------- Message 20 From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) Subject: Re: Litter box front yard Date: Mon, 11 May 92 20:27:18 GMT In article <1992May6.112542.114@mtechca.uucp> goss@mtechca.uucp writes: >-- >I'm at a lost. The neighborhood cats are making a very large litter box in my >front lawn. I killed my front lawn before they started the litter box, however >I have used bleach, moth flakes, and even tried to spray the cats with a water >hose and they keep comming back. I really don't want to hurt the cats but I >don't know what to use to keep them out of the lawn. Does anyone have any ideas >that might help?? > try some amonia & water in a spray bottle...they hate it > - -- ________________ __ ________________ "They that can give up \_________ \ /_ \ / _________/ essential liberty to \_________ \_____/ \____/ _________/ obtain temporary safety \___________________ __________________/ deserve neither liberty /______\ nor safety." ALL disclaimers apply .... --Benjamin Franklin ------- Message 21 From: naomib@sco.COM (Naomi Brokaw) Subject: Re: HELP, Cat is invading Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 18:59:50 GMT In article <2937@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes: [regarding cats digging the garden] >I'm not trying for perfection. But I would like to be able to plant a few >seeds or bulbs and not have them all dug up again. >Jim Mann I use some green gelatin-like stuff called "Get off my garden." It was recommended by our favorite pet store (for some reason, it didn't occur to me to ask at the garden store). It's a repellent, and it seems to do what it's supposed to. You re- move what the cat's already left (including earth impregnated with urine), then wet down the area and sprinkle this stuff around. Because the repellent is enclosed in this gelatin, it lasts longer and rain won't wash it away. It also smells okay to me, while other repellents repel me as much as the cats. They seem to use something like lime scent to make the smell easier on the human nose. As with any repellent, you have to reapply it several times to break the cats' habits. With many cats, you might have to always have some in the garden. But I must say, it does seem to keep the cat that was digging my garden away. Incidentally, when Kay Klier talked about mulching with cardboard, I thought that cat's wouldn't like to dig in that. Does cardboard keep cats away, Kay? Naomi ------- Message 22 From: machanicm@gtephx.UUCP (Mindy Machanic) Subject: Re: Cat Wars Date: 7 May 92 17:54:11 GMT In article <1992May07.042211.29696@CS.ORST.EDU>, kanes@CS.ORST.EDU (Scott Kane) writes: > > caught in a turf war between two neighboring cats. > They don't have any animals themselves; what is > attracting them to the yard. Any way to stop them > from wizzing all over everything? Especially the Tell them to get a dog. Works every time. Or spray the cats with vinegar water (avoid the eyes!). They will think they've been marked/sprayed themselves and will go home to clean it up and might stay away because the sprayer person will be presumed to be the territory owner. Just put a capful of white vinegar in a quart sprayer of water, and that will be strong enough to work. (That also works to clean up cat vomit on the carpet, BTW.) - -- - --Mindy ***************************************************************************************** Mindy Machanic (AG Communication Systems/Quality Engineering, Phoenix, AZ) (This space available for interesting messages and the usual disclaimers...) ------- End of Forwarded Messages