"The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" Radio Show, March 31, 2007

http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2007/04/01/vince-daniels-at-a-crossroad/

Segment 2 - Dr. Dave Touretzky

ANNOUNCER:  The Many Moods of Vince Daniels.

VINCE DANIELS:  And my brand-new guest host on "The Many Moods," he's here 
with me today in studio. Great to have you, Colonel, Colonel Ray Coughenour.

COLONEL RAY:  Good afternoon.

VINCE DANIELS:  Good to have you. Listen, I narrowed it down to once choice 
and it became pretty clear. If you go to the Web site, VinceDaniels.com, 
there's a new top story up there this week, that Colonel Ray has been picked 
to be my permanent guest host on the show. I mean, Johnny Carson, he was 
smart. He had Joan Rivers, he knew he had somebody who could just come in, do 
the job. She knew what was going on. It's not to say that other people I've 
had here don't know what's going on, but I mean, I had to base it mostly on 
the phone calls--volume of phones when you pinch hit for me here. People, you 
know, the call-ins saying, "Hey, it's great to hear your voice. Great to know 
that you're still here on KCAA." With those kind of results, I just--there 
was no other choice. You know, there might be times that there might even be 
some schedule conflicts with you, and also Barry Gordon you may hear from 
from time to time here on this station. Barry, of course, had a show here 
called "From Left Field" on Sundays on KCAA, so it might happen once or twice 
over this next year, you'll actually hear Barry Gordon coming on the program.

COLONEL RAY:  Well, Vince, I appreciate it. I've always enjoyed your show. 
You've got by far the best show on the weekends probably anywhere in Southern 
California. It's an actually show that sounds like one of the network shows 
during the week and it's just a pleasure for me to do it whenever I can.

VINCE DANIELS:  Thanks so much, and I try to go for the live and local slant 
on everything, too, because there's not enough live, there's not enough local 
radio.

COLONEL RAY:  No, there's not, and it's too bad. In fact, that's one of the 
things that I want to see start coming back around here. I think KCAA is the 
only one that really gets some good local information in talk shows. A lot of 
the other channels, I'd say they're just terrible on the weekends. Talk radio 
on the weekend is just terrible and, I've got to tell you, I'm tired of 
during the week, you've got five or six or seven to pick from and I don't 
want to listen to any of them anymore.

VINCE DANIELS:  What really gets me is that here we are in the Inland Empire 
and what's the #1 talk station but a Los Angeles station, and that's got to 
frustrate me.

COLONEL RAY:  Yeah, they've got those guys, Bill and Jim?

VINCE DANIELS:  John and Ken?

COLONEL RAY:  John and somebody. Yeah, I'm just joking here. Everybody knows 
them. I used to pick on them all the time and I'm tired of them. You know, 
they've created a pretty good shtick but we need some local discussion. We've 
got to talk about the Inland Empire. Inland Empire, I believe, is the 27th 
largest market in the United States.

VINCE DANIELS:  Twenty-fifth.

COLONEL RAY:  And there is no reason that we don't stand up to the plate.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-huh.

COLONEL RAY:  You know, we don't live in LA. I don't want to live in LA.

VINCE DANIELS:  Yeah. Well, look at your competition over there, Captain Dale 
Dye, and I think you do far better.

COLONEL RAY:  And I know him. I actually have talked to him several times and 
he's a nice guy, don't get me wrong, and he's well-known, done a lot of TV 
shows, but you know, he's a little bit of a cheerleader right now and he 
doesn't look at both sides. He figures if it's coming out of the 
administration's mouth it's perfect, so he doesn't debate it, he just reports 
it, so that's too bad.

VINCE DANIELS:  And I know his name, too, the computer guy there on KFI. He's 
on right during the time that I'm on.

COLONEL RAY:  Oh, yeah. I can't remember his name either. That's actually a 
reasonable show.

VINCE DANIELS:  And it is.

COLONEL RAY:  You learn something on it anyhow.

VINCE DANIELS:  That's my competition. [Laughter] You know, I don't run from 
that.

COLONEL RAY:  Well, let's talk about Scientology, Vince. I'm going to try to 
keep you above ground here.

VINCE DANIELS:  [Laughs] I suppose if I kept on talking you'd have never 
gotten to it. [Laughter] But go ahead. You wanted to--

COLONEL RAY:  Well, you know, you and I talked last week. I don't know, some 
things you try to learn a little bit about and for some reason Scientology 
has always interested me a little bit. And I've kind of followed in what they 
did, not that I want to sign up for it, because I think it is, in my opinion, 
kind of a fake religion. But what people don't know is they are an aggressive 
opponent if you go after them. I mean, they are aggressive. And one thing I 
learned doing research for this show, I always railed on the Clinton 
Administration because I figured they were the ones who granted the tax-
exempt status for Scientology in 1993. The fact is, it did occur during the 
first few months of the Clinton Administration. What I found out was the 
negotiations to do that started two years earlier under George Bush Senior.

VINCE DANIELS:  No kidding.

COLONEL RAY:  Yes, and the IRS commissioner that followed through into the 
Clinton Administration is the one that granted it. So here I am believing 
that this is a Clinton thing, that they had this little back-door thing and 
John Travolta went down there and talked to Sandy Burger and this happened. 
And I find out that, no, Mr. Miscavige had been negotiating directly with the 
IRS commissioner, a Judge by the name, I want to say Goldfarb [Ed: it’s 
actually Goldberg]--I might not have it exactly right--but he is the one who 
granted it to him, so quite interesting to see how this intertwines. Over the 
years and up to that point, Scientology had been in a 30-year battle with the 
IRS. Scientology had a group of lawyers that actually sued the IRS agents 
individually. Now, granted, they had some kind of protection from 
prosecution. It doesn't mean you don't wake up one day and get your wife 
served at your house with a lawsuit for several million dollars and create 
enough harassment to change your whole life. They have sued sheriffs, they 
have sued reporters. They have--this is an aggressive, aggressive 
organization.

KIM JOHNSON:  Wow.

VINCE DANIELS:  But, you know, and as I've argued before to you, I mean, I 
started out doing this and, to this day, I look at, for example, the Stone 
Hawk Narconon story that we're doing, the Stone Hawk center in Michigan. That 
to me is a consumer reporter's, you know--

COLONEL RAY:  There's no doubt.

VINCE DANIELS:  It's not a religious--you know, I'm not attacking anybody's 
religion. It's interesting to hear you, I guess that they are, it sounds 
like, the Clinton Administration actually deemed them to be a religion.

COLONEL RAY:  Well, the IRS did, and the problem is, are they a religion in 
the eyes of other religions? Oh, heck, no, and never will be. But the IRS 
gave them tax-exempt religious status. Well, so I guess if the government 
stamps you're a religion, I guess you're a religion. By the way, that saved 
them hundreds of millions of dollars.

KIM JOHNSON:  Wow.

COLONEL RAY:  Just an unbelievable amount of money.

VINCE DANIELS:  Okay, so what's your advice to me on this whole thing?

COLONEL RAY:  Well, first of all, you've got to decide and maybe pick your 
battles a little. The one on Narconon is maybe a good battle but the Church 
itself, I don't know that I would bother with. First of all, I disagree with 
the Church. I don't believe it's a church. I don't believe any of that. But 
if you pick on anything and anything that's accepted as some kind of 
religious organization, you're fighting a losing battle because even the 
government will not go after churches. I mean, look at the Catholic Church. 
They deserve probably a little more than they get, and I'm Catholic, by the 
way.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-huh, as am I. I agree.

COLONEL RAY:  But the government just backs off against churches. That's why 
Jimmy Swaggart has girlfriends. That's why all these other things that occur 
because they're scared to go after churches. And as soon as you do, you get 
labeled incorrectly. Now, back on the Narconon thing with them, well, I'm a 
believer that the entire rehabilitation system for alcohol and drug abuse is 
an absolute scam, the entire thing is. Danny Bonaduce, you know, he's on the 
FM radio now.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, Danny Bonaduce?

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah.

COLONEL RAY:  And he was popular. Well, he was on TV the other night talking 
about Britney Spears and he was in Promises in Malibu--Promises, the fancy 
little one in Malibu that's probably nicer than a four-star hotel. Says when 
he checked in there and they said, "Now, we have an 8% success rate," Danny 
Bonaduce goes, "Well, they could have said we have a 92% failure rate but 
they didn't phrase it that way." He says it was basically--

VINCE DANIELS:  I'm surprised they even said 8% success rate because most of 
them lie and tell you 70-75%.

COLONEL RAY:  Absolutely, absolutely. But he said it's basically a joke and 
it is.

KIM JOHNSON:  I wish I could afford Promises. I'd check in for a month just 
for fun.

COLONEL RAY:  Oh, it would be like a hotel.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah.

COLONEL RAY:  And Narconon's, I think, it used to be $20,000. I don't know 
what it is now.

VINCE DANIELS:  Up to 30.

COLONEL RAY:  And again, the success rate just isn't there. I mean, but that 
whole industry--not just the Scientology folks--are a scam. Now, here's 
interesting I found in this research. On the bottom of the television on Fox 
News right after 9/11--right after 9-1-1-- there was a little thing that they 
had on it that said call this mental health line. And it was somebody--that 
was a Narconon Scientology group that had got that on there, if you can 
believe that. I mean, this is a group that never identifies itself anywhere. 
They have this huge facility out in Hemet down by the Sobobo Casino. You 
won't see a sign on there. It looks like a college campus. It's a very 
secretive group but, don't get me wrong, they are brutal, absolutely brutal.

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, Ray, I want to stay on this story.

COLONEL RAY:  But you've got to tell me what you think the end result is 
going to be because they're so secret you're never going to dig out enough to 
hurt them.

VINCE DANIELS:  None. I don't think--you know, again, this is little Vinnie 
Daniels talking. What the hell do they want with me?

KIM JOHNSON:  Not Little Vinnie Daniels though. I think you've got a powerful 
voice.

VINCE DANIELS:  Let's bring Dave Touretzky into this. Dave is a professor at 
Carnegie Mellon University. He's been on this show before. Welcome, Dave. 
Great to have you.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Hi, Vinnie. Nice to be with you.

VINCE DANIELS:  I mean, what are your thoughts?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Well, Ray's right that these are bad people, but I think 
what he's missed is that the Internet has changed everything. In the old 
days, Scientology relied on their reputation for litigiousness to avoid 
having to sue people. People were so scared of them that they would 
voluntarily back off. They would not write articles, they would not do news 
stories because they were afraid of what would happen.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  But all that changed with the Internet.

COLONEL RAY:  Hey, Professor, I'll give you that. It seems like their suits 
haven't occurred near as much in the last several years as I looked up the 
information.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Yeah, "near as much" is a nice way of saying zero.

COLONEL RAY:  Okay.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  They have not sued anybody in the media since 1995, and let 
me tell you what happened in 1995. In 1995, The Washington Post published 33 
words of their secret scripture and Scientology sued them for copyright 
violation. The judge in that case was Leonie Brinkema who many years later 
would be the judge who tried Zacarias Moussaoui. Judge Brinkema was so 
disgusted with what the Scientologists did trying to sue The Washington Post 
that not only did she find for the Post and award them legal costs which are 
rumored to be around half a million dollars, but she took the secret 
scripture, which is the story of Xenu the evil space alien which I'm sure 
you've all heard, and she wrote it, she rephrased it in her own words and put 
it in her legal opinion so that she was telling their supposed copyrighted, 
trade secret, spiritual advanced technology in her written judicial opinion 
just to stick it to the cult. That is the last time they sued anybody in the 
media and that was 12 years ago.

COLONEL RAY:  Professor, you think maybe they got big enough and rich enough 
now that they're not as afraid as they used to be?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Big enough and rich enough?

COLONEL RAY:  I mean, are they bigger and rich enough now that they don't 
have to be afraid and they can just, you know, ignore criticism?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  No, it's the other way around. They've been beaten to a 
pulp. They can't get away with this stuff. When they tried to keep--

VINCE DANIELS:  Right. Let's take a look at South Park. Look at South Park.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Exactly. When they tried to keep Xenu secret, Web sites went 
up all over the world including my Web site at Carnegie Mellon, and we got 
legal threats, my university got legal threats, and you see the university 
told them, "Forget it. This is--you know, Touretzky's Web site is not a 
copyright infringement. Your trade secret, your trademark claims are 
nonsense. We're not taking this stuff down."

COLONEL RAY:  Well, no, no, what I meant was, they're a large organization 
now and kind of like the Catholic Church. Oftentimes, as many other religious 
organizations get criticism, sometimes a tactic is just to ignore the 
criticism.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  I think this is a tactic that they've been forced into, not 
because they're so large and wealthy now.

COLONEL RAY:  Good point.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  They're smaller now than they were when this started.

COLONEL RAY:  Okay, that makes sense.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  They've been losing members.

COLONEL RAY:  That makes sense. That makes sense.

VINCE DANIELS:  And I think you were pointing out to me, Dave, that Tom 
Cruise, his bumbling performance on the Today Show almost made it cool for 
everybody, people like myself, to criticize Scientology.

COLONEL RAY:  Oh, Vinnie, but Travolta came out a couple days ago and talked 
about the--what was the thing he talked about, something from--it was global 
warming is an alien thing. I mean, that was on the Drudge Report a couple 
days ago, Travolta, you know what I mean?

VINCE DANIELS:  They're just making asses out of themselves. I mean, why 
would they--I mean, in other words, they're doing it to themselves, Colonel.

COLONEL RAY:  Well, I hope so because we don't need this screwball 
organization. But when you go back and do the research, and the professor 
knows this backwards and forwards I'm sure, they have done some horrific 
things.

VINCE DANIELS:  What do you think that they would do to me? We do have a 
center here, I know.

COLONEL RAY:  I'm not sure they're going to now because I do believe that--I 
think that Professor Touretzky just pointed it out. I think they're forced to 
kind of ignore it. Now, I wouldn't have phrased but actually I think he's 
corrected me. I think he's correct. I think they're kind of forced to not get 
their name in the paper with any retaliation now. So maybe, and I'm learning 
something here today, too, but just here locally, all of a sudden you found 
out that they were interested. All of a sudden they showed up on--

VINCE DANIELS:  Right here.

COLONEL RAY:  On this station in the morning doing a radio show with the 
4,000 radio stations in the United States, so it's not like they didn't hear 
it.

VINCE DANIELS:  That's a good point, Dave. I mean, they could have--this is 
Per Wickstrom we're talking about in Battle Creek, Michigan, hooks up with 
Clark Carr who is out here in Los Angeles, of course. He's the president of 
Narconon. Yeah, Ray's right. They could have went to thousands of other radio 
stations but, a rhetorical question, why KCAA?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Well, they're definitely going to respond to your attacks. I 
mean, you're exposing Stone Hawk, which is engaging in fraud, which is 
subjecting their clients to medically risky treatments involving the 
excessive niacin, of course they're going to be responding to criticism. I'm 
not saying that they won't do that. But the old extra-legal stuff, the crazy 
lawsuits, that's the kind of stuff they can't do anymore. So what are they 
doing? They're coming on your radio station, which means they're paying for 
time.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  So the owner of your station is making more money now. I 
mean, the way I look at it, they're subsidizing the Vince Daniels Show. If 
you weren't doing this they wouldn't be buying time.

COLONEL RAY:  But the fact that they woke up and did it, like I said, there's 
a lot of places they could do that. And it's just interesting to--and this is 
not a particularly big station. We're getting pretty well-known in this area 
though, and frankly probably heard in Hemet where that monstrous facility of 
theirs is.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

COLONEL RAY:  But again, I'm a little surprised though that they would come 
on here. They--let's put it this way. They paid attention.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  They do. If you poke them, you'll get a reaction. That's 
certainly true.

VINCE DANIELS:  I mean, let's look at this realistically, Dave. Am I even--
does it really come down--I think just as far as it being serious or not, I 
think I'm just on their radar and that's it.

COLONEL RAY:  Well, you'd better quit sweating in here, Vince. You're 
worrying me here, man. I'm looking at you. [Laughter]

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, I'm trying to search for the right words. I think I'm 
just on their radar, nothing more.

KIM JOHNSON:  I don't know if the Tom Cruise thing on your video does 
anything to help.

VINCE DANIELS:  Why? It's up there for entertainment purposes.

KIM JOHNSON:  Well, I don't know. I disagree with you on that.

VINCE DANIELS:  You can't take that, then don't go to the Web site and don't 
click on the--

KIM JOHNSON:  I just think it's poking and prodding the situation.

VINCE DANIELS:  You think so, Dave? I don't think so.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Well, you're certainly not going to get Tom Cruise as a 
guest on your show. I think you can write that off. [Laughter] And you're not 
going to get a Christmas card from Kirstie Alley this year either.

COLONEL RAY:  I'd love to get Cruise as a guest and he can tell me about 
psychiatry. The problem is, I'd probably slap him upside the head and I'd get 
in trouble for that, so, you know. But he's--well, no, he's a tough guy. I 
forgot. He's a Hollywood tough guy so I probably couldn't get away with that.

VINCE DANIELS:  Do you think I'm a threat to him, Dave?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  I think you are a threat, not to Tom Cruise personally, I 
think you're a threat to Scientology because you're--if you keep doing what 
you're doing, Vinnie, you're going to get Stone Hawk shut down. There are 
people contacting the attorney general's office in Michigan now. There are 
people contacting the IRS because there have been some allegations about 
Stone Hawk's finances, and so--

COLONEL RAY:  Professor, let me ask you though, and I had mentioned it 
earlier. I don't know if you heard it. In my opinion, the entire 
rehabilitation, drug and alcohol rehabilitation--

VINCE DANIELS:  Let's not take it there for a second. Let me ask you 
something and I'll let you get back to that but let me just bounce off of 
what Dave was saying and ask you, Ray. Do you think--so I'm a threat to them. 
Do you think that if I get the center closed down, will there be payback, 
will there be ramifications for that?

COLONEL RAY:  Well, look at this in any organization. You go to some 
organization and get any, if you get a couple stores closed from Wal-Mart, 
okay, and you don't think they'd retaliate. Well, here is an organization 
that has a history of retaliation. I think if you get it closed, I think 
there's an extreme example or extreme possibility that they're going to want 
to retaliate, if nothing else, just out of a revenge factor. These are not 
good people. Business alone can be very cruel. Anybody who doesn't think it 
is knows better, but these guys have a history of doing this. If you got that 
center closed down, I think that they would retaliate.

VINCE DANIELS:  How?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Oh, Vinnie, you should be so lucky. You'd have so much free 
publicity you'd never have time to answer, for anybody to answer the phone.

VINCE DANIELS:  But they're not going to because you said to me on the phone, 
Dave, it's because I'm such a public figure they wouldn't dare retaliate.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  They just don't do that kind of stuff to the media but they 
do it to other people. They do it to me because I'm not a public figure.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  But they're not going to do it to you because that will just 
make your name and--

VINCE DANIELS:  Retaliation will take the form of what?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  So, the kinds of things that they would want to do to you 
would be to interfere with your advertisers, with your sponsors, to go after 
the radio station. Certainly they're already investigating you and the radio 
station owner, and Ray, you're going to be on the list too now.

COLONEL RAY:  I'm Colonel John, by the way, now. I'm changing my name as of 
[inaudible, laughter].

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Colonel X. So, if you've got any skeletons in your closet, 
you'd better get them dealt with. If you have ex-wives you owe child support 
to, you have unpaid parking tickets, you'd better clean house because 
Scientology is going to know about all that stuff. And that's what they're 
going to do. They're not going to sue you. That would be crazy.

COLONEL RAY:  And Vince, that's where you've got to decide, you know, which 
battles are the better ones to fight.

VINCE DANIELS:  It's got nothing to do with a battle. It's--

COLONEL RAY:  There's a lot of battle zones, a lot of battles and fights.

VINCE DANIELS:  This is a variety talk show. I do expose--I mean, I do 
reports on dead artists like Frank Sinatra. I talk about health. I talk about 
religion. I talk about a lot of things. This is one among many things. I will 
be damned--I would be damned if anybody called me and says, "You better pull 
that Frank Sinatra tribute you're going to do this week." I'd say go to, you 
know, you know what I'd say to them. That's the same thing here.

COLONEL RAY:  Listen, pal, that's apples and oranges. First of all, Frank's 
dead.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, it's a show. [Laughter] Ray, it's a show. It's a show.

KIM JOHNSON:  Vince, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit for 
your own show.

COLONEL RAY:  That's a good point, good point.

KIM JOHNSON:  I think that you sell yourself short a lot when it comes to the 
power of your voice.

VINCE DANIELS:  No.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yes, you do, and I'm telling you that as a friend. I have lunch 
with you, I talk to you, and I think you sell yourself short on this show. 
You have a much bigger voice than you give yourself credit for and I think 
the sooner that you come to terms with that, the sooner that you'll be able 
to answer your own question on this subject.

VINCE DANIELS:  It's a radio show. It's a radio show.

KIM JOHNSON:  Okay, so when did you start thinking that radio wasn't 
powerful? This isn't Romper Room.

VINCE DANIELS:  I do know it's powerful.

KIM JOHNSON:  Well, this isn't Romper Room Sunday Talk Show.

VINCE DANIELS:  No.

KIM JOHNSON:  You have a very serious show. You're a very special host in the 
sense that because I think the things that you've been through allow you to 
take on subjects that the average person wouldn't take on. And because you 
have done stuff with the Catholic Church, you don't necessarily see the power 
that you have. And I think that you should take a little more time to look at 
yourself in the mirror and say, "Vince Daniels, you've got a powerful show."

VINCE DANIELS:  Let's go out and talk to Craig. Craig, welcome to Romper 
Room. [Laughs]

CRAIG:  Yeah, hey, Vince. Good to hear you again this morning, and hey, 
everybody over there. I--

VINCE DANIELS:  Radio Romper Room--how does that sound?

CRAIG:  That sounds great. [Laughter] You see Peter, you see Bobby.

VINCE DANIELS:  We have Kim and Ray in other row and we have Davey on the 
line with us. [Laughs]

CRAIG:  Hey, I just wanted to put it out there.

KIM JOHNSON:  It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

CRAIG:  I read this book--I told you this before--I read a book called "L. 
Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?" and it was written by his own son, L. Ron 
Hubbard, Jr. I read it in high school and the book was subsequently recalled 
by the Church itself. They bought the company that owned the book or 
something like that. And these people, they'll in the past at least, they 
were willing to kidnap, they were willing to kill. L. Ron Hubbard lived on a 
ship offshore where he did all sorts of weird things to people. It was 
further than 12 miles out so there was more leeway with what he could get 
away with. And so if Vince Daniels ever gets in a car accident or ever 
contracts a weird disease or ever disappears on a camping trip, I'm going to-
-it's going to be the Scientology Church, so let's just [inaudible] cast 
right now.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

COLONEL RAY:  Good point there, Vince, I've got to tell you. Now, but let me 
tell you a quick story about their books. He's a best-selling author, L. Ron 
Hubbard. They would buy 200--they would print 250,000 books, they would send 
them out to all the stores. The Scientology would wait till they dropped down 
to two dollars, then they would go back and buy every one of them back and 
claim it as sales, and claimed he was a best-selling author. I mean, this is 
a tricky group.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  That's true. They did a lot of shady stuff like that. But 
just to follow up on Craig's comment about the book, L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah 
or Madman?, that and every other critical book ever written about Scientology 
is available for free on the Web now.

VINCE DANIELS:  Uh-hmm.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  So even though the cult sued the publisher of that book, 
they sued the publisher of A piece of Blue Sky, another very good L. Ron 
Hubbard exposé , they harassed all these authors including Paulette Cooper 
who wrote The Scandal of Scientology, even though they did all this stuff, 
they were powerless against the Internet. All those books and a dozen more 
are available on the Web right now.

KIM JOHNSON:  I just watched a 21-part special on Google, 21 parts. It's all 
there, a 21-part special, and boy, what a sales program.

VINCE DANIELS:  And back to what Kim is saying. No, I understand full well my 
power. When you talk to me, you're mistaking a real humility on my part for 
me not having confidence in myself. I know the power I have behind this 
microphone. It's because I know I have the power behind this microphone that 
I agree with Dave Touretzky. They ain't gonna touch a public figure. That's, 
you know, I'm not going over the line. I'm stating my--

COLONEL RAY:  Let me give you a term, Vince. We used to say, "I don't know if 
I want to die on this hill." You've got to decide if this is the hill you 
want to die on. I don't mean die physically; I mean is this the hill you want 
to put the amount of effort into to end up having to end up fighting them. 
Would this be the story and would this be the subject you want to do that?

VINCE DANIELS:  What do you think about that, Dave Touretzky?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  I think this is perfect. This is easy pickings for a radio 
host: to have an opponent who is this obviously evil, obviously greedy and 
obviously insane.

VINCE DANIELS:  How did you put it, Dave, that this is the topic that the 
Vince Daniels Show can hang its--how did you put it?

DAVE TOURETZKY:  Yeah, you can hang your hat on this. You're going to--this 
is going to make you as a national figure.

KIM JOHNSON:  [Inaudible] that two weeks ago at lunch, Vince.

DAVE TOURETZKY:  There are already people all over the country because 
Narconon recruits nationwide. So I'm talking to a mother in Florida, I'm 
talking to a boyfriend in Texas, another mother in Oklahoma. You know, all 
these people who have children or spouses or boyfriend/girlfriend in Narconon 
and are running into these problems, they're all listening to the Vince 
Daniels Show. Your podcasts are not only on your Web site but they're on Mark 
Bunker's XENU TV. They're linked to from my Stop-Narconon site. All these 
people have become Vince Daniels listeners.

VINCE DANIELS:  Thank you so much, Dave, for being on. We are fighting the 
clock right now. Sorry we couldn’t get to the other callers here today. 
Colonel Ray, thank you. We'll see you on April 21st.

COLONEL RAY:  You sure will, April 21st.

VINCE DANIELS:  Looking forward to it. Kim, thank you. We'll see you here 
next Saturday.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yes.

VINCE DANIELS:  Have a great week, everybody.

[End of Segment 2.]