"The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" Radio Show, February 24, 2007

http://Stop-Narconon.org/StoneHawk

Segment 3

[Vinnie starts segment talking about Roger Miller's King Of The Road while it 
plays, as well as radio back in the "old days" with Kim and Jay.]

VINCE DANIELS:  It's 16 after the hour here. Kind of getting into this hour a 
little bit later than we thought.

KIM JOHNSON:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  It's because we were having such a great--I mean, this was an 
informative last hour.

JAY BOATMAN:  Yeah. You don't want to stop the momentum while you've got them 
going.

VINCE DANIELS:  No, and with that I want to welcome two people we have not 
heard from here on "The Many Moods." Doug Kaneen is in Indianapolis, Indiana. 
Welcome, Doug.

KIM JOHNSON:  Hi, Doug.

DOUG KANEEN:  Hi. What's going on, Vince?

VINCE DANIELS:  You reached out to me--when did you get out of them? We 
should point out first of all that you were in Stone Hawk Rehabilitation 
Center there in Battle Creek up until when?

DOUG KANEEN:  Up until last Sunday, a week ago tomorrow.

VINCE DANIELS:  Same day that Daryl got out, right, Sheri's fiancé?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah. Yeah, we all saw him. You know, he was leaving and we 
were like, "Where is he going?" And my mom, I talked to my mom. She was like, 
"Well, how would you feel if I came and got you tomorrow?" It would be great.

VINCE DANIELS:  Where is he going? He was dumped off at the Red Roof Inn with 
ten bucks in his pocket. Kind of sounds like a familiar story, doesn't it?

DOUG KANEEN:  It does indeed, it does.

VINCE DANIELS:  Also on the line is Cash Williams and Cash is in Pensacola, 
Florida, and Cash, you just recently got out. Welcome, by the way.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Thank you, Vince. How are you doing?

VINCE DANIELS:  Doing great, and you're joined by also your mother, Theresa, 
Theresa Nelson is with you as well. Why don't you put your mom on the line 
and have her say hello to us here real quick?

CASH WILLIAMS:  All right.

THERESA NELSON:  Hi. This is Theresa, Cash's mom.

VINCE DANIELS:  Hey, it's nice to have you here, yes, because you're going to 
back up lot of this stuff here today because, of course, as a parent you were 
on the other end of all of what was going on. And Jay, before we forget, 
we're going to take phone calls here in about 20-25 minutes. I want to put 
the number out.

JAY BOATMAN:  Yeah. That number is 909-888-5222. Once again, it's 909-888-
5222.

VINCE DANIELS:  Doug, you were the roommate of Dave Bowser who was on the 
show in this hour last week.

DOUG KANEEN:  Correct.

VINCE DANIELS:  How long have you been in Stone Hawk?

DOUG KANEEN:  I was in there, I went, I got in Withdrawal about end of 
January, I think it was the 24th, and was in there for a week. And, you know, 
Withdrawal was money compared to over in Battle Creek, you know, I mean, and 
I didn't think that was possible. [Laughs] But yeah, I just recently got out, 
so about a month, I'd say.

VINCE DANIELS:  Now, is this true all the things that, you know, well, I know 
it's true from people we've heard, but you can describe things that you saw 
there, too. We were talking, for example, last week about--well, Kim actually 
[laughs] coined the term--ball-baiting. [Laughter] But of course known as 
bull-beating, [laughter] right here on "The Many Moods," a new term, but 
that's very apt because they do do these things to you. Describe that to us.

DOUG KANEEN:  Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. I mean, you know, you're just 
expected to sit there and, you know, they can do whatever they want, and guys 
will act like they're going to kiss you, you know. I mean, they'll call 
names, profound names, call girls "sluts" like "Cum Doncers," all this 
ridiculous stuff. You're just like, what the heck? It blows your mind, you 
know. Like if anyone acted like that on the street to you, you would like--

VINCE DANIELS:  Slap a lawsuit on them, yeah.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah. I mean. [Laughter]

VINCE DANIELS:  So why isn't somebody slapping a lawsuit on Stone Hawk?

DOUG KANEEN:  I don't know. I mean, I think everyone is just trying to figure 
out what step, you know, we need to take in order to make all of our stuff 
look, you know, legit because you need paperwork and all that stuff which 
they kind of don't give to you. I mean, they tried to get me one. As we were 
leaving they tried to get me to sign a paper and I started signing, you know, 
and then read something. They kind of grabbed it and they're trying to take 
it out to the office, you know, and it was basically saying, oh, I'm not 
going to ask for any money or ask for, you know, give them any--kind of like 
the whole gag order you guys have been talking about.

VINCE DANIELS:  They were making you sign it? Was it a release of all claims?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah, and that's what it was.

VINCE DANIELS:  Wow.

DOUG KANEEN:  And they kind of just hid it in that second paragraph and they 
just tried to take it up to the office. My mom was like, "Let me see that. 
Let me see that." Oh, it's okay. You'll get a copy. I need to go make a copy 
of it and ran up the stairs. I was like, here, let me see that, you know, and 
took it from him. It got ripped up and, oh, they just [laughs], it's goofy.

VINCE DANIELS:  So your mom listened to this program last Saturday and she 
came up and she got you Sunday?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah. She listened to it and that whole previous week, you 
know, I was talking to her, telling her stuff about the place and, you know, 
I was just like, "Mom, they don't even let us go to church." I mean, every 
day, every Sunday I was there they always came up with a new excuse why we 
couldn't go to church.

VINCE DANIELS:  You mean just like the church of your choice, right?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah, like you--

VINCE DANIELS:  So they tell you coming in that you can go to church on 
Sundays.

DOUG KANEEN:  Oh, yeah, every Sunday.

VINCE DANIELS:  And you'd try to go and they would give you reasons for not 
going.

DOUG KANEEN:  Well, they, I mean, one time, the one time we actually got in 
the van and made it, you know, a good, about five miles away from the center 
and there's a train. And I had just gone to the dentist before, you know, 
like three days before that, and I was like, "Oh, there was a train here last 
time. There's a bridge right down the street." Oh, what bridge? You know, 
they just kind of, "Oh, no, we've got to go get Starbucks, go back," you 
know? I'm like, what the heck?

VINCE DANIELS:  What kind of--for example, tell us a little bit more about, 
you know, I understand that there's conditions, very unsanitary conditions 
over there. Cash, you could jump in on this as well. Is this true that 
there's ants in the sauna?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Oh, yeah, definitely ants, black mold. There's black mold all 
under the--

DOUG KANEEN:  The benches.

CASH WILLIAMS:  You know, like wooden sheets and there's just black mold 
underneath there. It's disgusting.

VINCE DANIELS:  Now, Sheri, Sheri Koenig that was on with us in the last half 
hour, said that after the show last Saturday they--and you both could attest 
to this, at least you could, well, you both could because you were there a 
week ago today--is this true that they got everybody, had banded everybody 
together to do clean-up?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Yeah. I talked with somebody last night and apparently there 
was some kind of supervisor there or inspector, and so they assigned us all 
chores, which is fine, but they were making people do I think over, you know, 
doing a lot more than usual so that they could pass inspection. I'm not sure.

VINCE DANIELS:  And they ordered you to do it. They didn't give you a choice 
or anything.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Oh, no, no, no. Everybody was assigned chores.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, boy. Is clean-up something that's normally assigned to 
you guys?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Oh, yeah. Every day after Sauna, the last Sauna period, we 
all get down there and scrub it with a cleaner and rinse it off and--

VINCE DANIELS:  I'm reading a letter in the last segment here from a guy that 
works there that says that they got a big leak in the roof.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah, and the cafeteria. They're like, I don't know what it is 
but--

VINCE DANIELS:  In the cafeteria. [Laughs] Hot.

DOUG KANEEN:  And there's like a deck above the cafeteria, and I don't know 
if it's the snow that melts or what but it just comes like, I mean, it was a 
constant stream coming out of one of the tiles in the roof I think it was 
like last Friday or Saturday. It was just like, what the heck? There's a hole 
in our roof. What's new?

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, gee. [Sighs]

CASH WILLIAMS:  I've seen Paddy kill a mouse, kick it and kill it, and then 
turn around to me and say, "What do I gotta do to keep you quiet? [Laughs] 
What do we go to do to keep this from getting out, Cash?" [Laughter, 
inaudible]

VINCE DANIELS:  And they would demonstrate that and ask that question by 
killing a mouse?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, God. These are sick, sick people. Theresa Nelson, as a 
mother, you're Cash's mother.

THERESA NELSON:  Yes.

VINCE DANIELS:  What brought--you picked up your son when?

THERESA NELSON:  Yesterday.

VINCE DANIELS:  Just yesterday.

THERESA NELSON:  [Inaudible] went back into Pensacola and when I saw him get 
off the plane, I mean, just in these last few months, I almost didn't 
recognize him. He looks like he's lost probably 15 pounds. He has dark 
circles under his eyes. He just looks--he is sick, he's got the flu or a cold 
or something. Of course, they wouldn't give him anything while he had that, 
not even a Tylenol so, you know, I couldn't believe it. And the problem we 
had was, Cash was in jail on a little alcohol problem thing when I found 
Narconon, and so I left him in jail till the day I sent him out of Pensacola 
to Narconon. When he came out of jail, it had been three months and he hadn't 
had anything to drink, he looked great. He had been on a work detail. He had 
jail food. He'd been safe in the jail. And I finally believed Cash when he 
told me two days ago, he said, "Mom, I want to come back and go to jail. This 
place is awful." He said, "Jail is ten times better than this Narconon."

KIM JOHNSON:  Wow.

VINCE DANIELS:  And yet I'm hearing from people that are writing me back and 
they're appalled over last week's show and they're saying that it's a 
beautiful place by the lake. They've known many sick people that have 
graduated there successfully, become pillars in their community. What do you 
know about that? I mean, could they?

THERESA NELSON:  From what I've seen my son go through, you know, I didn't 
see the place and I guess I should have gone up there with him to start with. 
All I had was, you know, the stuff that came over the Internet and it looked 
like a nice place. I thought I was sending him somewhere, you know, that was, 
you know, I didn't expect it to be a resort. I didn't expect it to be plush 
and comfy like the Four Seasons or something, but I expected it to be clean 
and just, you know, at least basics. But when it's worse than the county jail 
here in Pensacola, that's got to be pretty [inaudible].

VINCE DANIELS:  Cash, you've looked at the pictures and everything. I mean, 
on my Web site this week, all I really had to post to show people Stone Hawk 
was what they had available, so that's what I posted on my Web site and you 
would think that this is just a picture-perfect resort.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Oh, man. It looks like a nice picture but the real picture is 
far from anything like that. It's like a hellhole, man.

KIM JOHNSON:  Well, I asked him to take pictures and show us and hopefully 
maybe they'll hear us today and they'll take some pictures and show the truth 
about what it looks like in there.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Yeah. There is people right next door. Those pictures had to 
be taken like back in the '70s, at least. [Laughter] It was a nice building 
at one time, I'd say. [Laughter]

VINCE DANIELS:  Well, the pictures that we have like in the middle of that 
graphic there of the bunk beds, how nice it is in the rooms, I mean, let me 
ask you this just in fairness. After everybody cleaned up last Saturday, did 
it become that?

CASH WILLIAMS:  No. Those aren't even the rooms there. I don't know--I think 
that's from some other Narconon because that's not even [laughs] the room.

DOUG KANEEN:  I never saw that room.

KIM JOHNSON:  Really.

DOUG KANEEN:  No. It's a totally different place. I don't know where they got 
those.

KIM JOHNSON:  So false advertising.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  Let me start with you, Doug. You were the roommate of David 
Bowser.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  Because Dave was on this program last week and it's a totally 
different Dave of a week later. I mean, they're getting to him and they're 
causing him to go at odds with his folks and everything and, you know, of 
course, his folks paid for the program and everything and there's a little 
bit of interest, you know. Of course, they would like to see some of their 
money back, if not all of it. Is this common to see people just have extreme 
mood swings from one week to the next?

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah. I mean, even when David was in, you know, the Sauna like, 
I mean, he would just, you know, kind of be talking. He'd say some like weird 
stuff. I never like, you know, just came out of nowhere and he's like, "Man, 
this nice [phonetic] is getting to me and, you know, it's just--and they just 
constantly mess with you, you know, searching through your room like. I 
snapped one night. They came in my room looking for some stuff and there was 
a thing of sugar up in the tiles and the sugar thing came out and busted all 
over our bathroom floor. And they just kind of did like a little sweep and 
not like, you know, and there's still glass shards in our room, I guarantee 
you, you know.

VINCE DANIELS:  What kind of punishment would they give you guys there?

DOUG KANEEN:  Oh, they'd give us Ethics.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Ethics.

DOUG KANEEN:  I mean, even if like you were sick and you asked for a Tylenol, 
you would get Ethics because of that to them is a via.

VINCE DANIELS:  They make Ethics and they use that word and they pass it off 
like they're doing the right thing.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah. [Laughter]

CASH WILLIAMS:  Staring at somebody for nine hours, that's, you know, you 
have to sit three foot away from them. I was in Ethics for two weeks. I was 
on Eyes Closed for three days and then I did Eyes Open for six days.

KIM JOHNSON:  Wow.

CASH WILLIAMS:  And you get breaks but, I mean, I almost got to the boiling 
point. I mean, I was actually seeing me smash somebody's face in and, I mean, 
I'm not that kind of person. I'm just not that way but I was really about to 
lose it. I mean--

VINCE DANIELS:  Even if that was their whole purpose to get you to that point 
to think that and so that you could constrain and hold yourself, that's still 
not good. That's still not a good program. What is it accomplishing?

CASH WILLIAMS:  I had no earthly idea.

VINCE DANIELS:  I don't understand where that leads, where that goes, 
because--

CASH WILLIAMS:  They say it makes [inaudible] people.

VINCE DANIELS:  What if you did smash him in the mouth and it backfires on 
them? [Laughter] What are these people thinking? Have they ever run--

CASH WILLIAMS:  Or not. [Laughter]

VINCE DANIELS:  This is not their thing. They're getting this from a book. 
Obviously it's the book of L. Ron Hubbard. This is just unbelievable. 
Theresa, what was it? Were you the one who discovered this program for your 
son, Cash?

THERESA NELSON:  Yes.

VINCE DANIELS:  And how did that happen? Bring us through that process.

THERESA NELSON:  Okay. Well, Cash had been, like I said, an alcohol program 
and was in jail at the time, so I started going through the Internet. And, 
you know, when you look under the drug and rehab things, that's all you see 
is, I don't know if they can buy every spot on the Internet or what, but I 
mean, there wasn't--they're different ones. They're all over the country, you 
know, and you can look at the different Narconons and I did. I talked to 
people at different ones, some in California, some in--there's one right down 
here close to us in Destin, Florida, which is a beautiful beach resort and 
then there was, of course, the California ones, but. And you'd call and you'd 
talk to people that are in their program.

Well, I started talking to this man--his name was David Lee at Stone Hawk--
and he just told me, you know, I told him Cash's problems. He said, "You send 
him here." He said, "We can take care of him. We will--he will come out a 
different person. You'll never have another problem with alcohol with him. I 
was the worst of the worst." And, you know, it just really tells you exactly 
what you want to hear. The same thing at some of the others I talked to. I 
spent a month talking to these people trying to be sure, looking at their 
rooms and what it looked like. Destin was like $35,000 and I thought, well, 
that's because we're down here on these pretty beaches so, and, you know, 
maybe that's not good for Cash to put him this close to home. Maybe I'll go 
ahead and send him to Michigan. And I told him, I called him in jail, I said, 
"Here is the option and this is what I want to do." He said okay. You know, 
he was ready to try whatever I wanted him to try. And like I said, I got him 
out of the program. He left jail straight--I put him on the plane myself and 
sent him to Battle Creek.

Well, they were going to let me know he got there okay. They picked him up at 
the airport. I never heard a word from one person there for four days. I 
would call and ask to speak to these names of people I had. He'll call you 
back. Nobody would call me back. Finally, Cash calls me and he's out of detox 
and I said, "Why didn't somebody let me know what was going on with you?" He 
said, "I do not know, Mom." He said, "I didn't even need detox. I haven't had 
anything to drink in three months." But they did that, so then I kind of 
talked to them and I said, you know, you could have called me or you should 
have let me know what was going on. I've been worried about him.

VINCE DANIELS:  So how come, Cash--okay. I mean, I know the answer to this 
but how come you didn't call? I mean, was it a fear--

THERESA NELSON:  They are not allowed to make a telephone call in detox.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, that's right.

THERESA NELSON:  Not allowed a telephone.

KIM JOHNSON:  He didn't need detox. He had been sober for three months you 
said.

THERESA NELSON:  Yeah, for three months, and they said--

KIM JOHNSON:  See, right there that's interesting. You'd think if they had a 
doctor on staff or if there was somebody there that they'd make a common-
sense decision that he might move right forward.

THERESA NELSON:  Uh-huh. So they put him in and then Cash would call me on a 
weekly basis and tell me it was kind of bad because most of the time they 
wouldn't let him use the phone unless somebody was standing there looking at 
him. And he just didn't--you know, he said, "They don't do this to me in 
jail. Yeah, I could use the phone," he said, "so I'm only calling you when I 
can get to a phone." He said, "I'm probably not even supposed to be--I'm 
going to get in trouble for using this phone but, you know, I'll talk to you 
later. It's kind of bad in here." And I'd say, "What do you mean by bad?" And 
later told me, now that he's home, that he had thought the phones were bugged 
and so I, you know, I was encouraging him to work through the program because 
a lot of times you wonder, well, he's just wanting to come back home.

So then they--he had been in there, he checked in in the end of November. 
January, the first week of January, I get a call and it's this Paddy. He 
says, "Cash has to tell you something." And they put Cash on the phone and 
Cash says, "Mom, they're sending me out of here. They're taking me to a motel 
in Kalamazoo." I said, "What are you talking about?" And he said, "Well, I 
jumped out of the window and got," he walked somewhere and got some alcohol. 
And then he walked right back in but then I guess something happened and they 
found him. I went, oh, I can't believe this. So Paddy gets on the phone. He 
says he's taking him to a hotel. I said, "What do you mean you're taking him 
to a hotel?" He said, "Yeah. We're going to give him $10 and he's got to stay 
out for two weeks." I said, "What are you talking about?" I said, "My son was 
in jail, he was safe, and you told me to take him out of jail and send him to 
you and you were going to change him and take care of him and solve all his 
problems for me." I said, "Now you're just going to throw him out on the 
street?" I said, "This is the way--," I said, "You don't have like a way to 
take privileges away or put him in solitary confinement or whatever? But, I 
mean, you're going to throw him out in a motel?" And they just, yes, and I 
said, "Well, how is that going to help him with his addiction and his 
alcoholism? And what have you done? Apparently you haven't done one thing to 
help him or he wouldn't have had this episode where he just, you know, jumped 
out of a second-story window." [Laughs] Which I guess, you know, after 
talking to Cash, he was ready to do anything to get out. The only mistake I 
think he made was going back.

KIM JOHNSON:  Wow.

VINCE DANIELS:  Cash, let me ask you a question. Did they give you, did they 
pump you with a lot of niacin?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Oh, man, I was up to 2,000 milligrams.

VINCE DANIELS:  Oh, my God, just like Dave Bowser talking to us last week. I 
mean, what was going--I mean, how does that affect you?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Man, it just makes you feel like you've got a really, really 
bad sunburn but my guts were even burning like it feels like they were 
burning on the inside.

VINCE DANIELS:  These people need to be--first of all, if they have a medical 
license it needs to be revoked along with their business license because 
that's just flat, in my opinion, close to killing somebody.

CASH WILLIAMS:  Yeah.

VINCE DANIELS:  I'm surprised you don't hear of a lot of people that have 
been killed in that place. Oh, that's just awful. What about yourself, Doug, 
did they pump you with a lot of it?

DOUG KANEEN:  I didn't get to go through enough of the program but I got to, 
I think it was 3 or 400 milligrams and, I mean, that stuff is no--

VINCE DANIELS:  Beyond 35 or 50 or 100, it just gets to be too much. You 
start feeling it.

DOUG KANEEN:  Yeah, and my mom, she was trying to, you know, find out what 
the milligrams or like all the vitamins and stuff they were giving us and 
like they wouldn't answer her. You know, they wouldn't talk. And I'd ask them 
and they just simply said, "Don't worry about it." That's their answer to 
everything. You ask them, you confront them, "Don't worry about it." [Laughs]

VINCE DANIELS:  Let me ask you guys all something right here. I want to ask 
Theresa and I want to ask the both of you, Cash and Doug, what if they came 
to you, which is very, very likely--we've seen it happen although we haven't 
seen it happen with Kimberly Darr, David's fiancée or David's folks yet--but 
if they came to them asking, you know, if they came to you guys asking you to 
sign a release, asking you not to be on the radio next week, and they were 
going to give you just an enormous sum of money, and maybe I should be asking 
Theresa this question because I'm sure this was your money that paid for 
this, if it was, say, 50-60 grand, would you take it?

THERESA NELSON:  I wouldn't take a million dollars to sign anything that they 
have to give to me. I don't want one more parent to go through what I went 
through, you know, for what they've done to my child. And I didn't expect 
them--I said, "I'm not sending you somebody that's perfect. I am sending you 
someone that has an alcohol problem." Oh, they were just going to solve every 
problem I had. When I find out they'd thrown him in that hotel room, I said, 
"Well, you send me my money." Are you kidding? They wouldn't even talk to me 
about sending me any money back.

VINCE DANIELS:  Wow. You know--

THERESA NELSON:  Day before yesterday, when I said he was leaving, you know 
what they told me on the telephone? They said, "You're going to be his 
problem. You're his alcohol problem. We're willing to keep him now," because 
they knew I was taking him out of it.

VINCE DANIELS:  And the truth is, they're the enablers. They're the enablers. 
And as far as I'm concerned, they're con artists. As far as I'm concerned, 
they're sharks and charlatans. They need to be thrown out onto the streets. 
That place needs to be shut down. As long as my microphone is on and my mouth 
is open, I am not going to leave it until we shut that place down.

THERESA NELSON:  I would even put some money in there to have it happen. I 
mean, I am that upset with what has gone on.

VINCE DANIELS:  You know, I can't do it myself but I'm sure within the sound 
of my voice is an attorney listening that would gladly, gladly take these 
cases. I can't do anything beyond what I'm doing here, but I'm behind you 
guys all the way. Thank you, Theresa Nelson, mother of Cash Williams. Cash, 
thank you, Doug Kaneen, for being here with us today.

DOUG KANEEN:  Thank you.

CASH WILLIAMS:  No problem. Thank you.

KIM JOHNSON:  Thanks, everybody.

VINCE DANIELS:  And let's, you know, keep us posted, keep us in the loop. 
We'll be in touch with you, okay?

CASH WILLIAMS:  Will do.

DOUG KANEEN:  All right then. Right on, Vince.

KIM JOHNSON:  Good luck with your recovery.

VINCE DANIELS:  And your phone calls next at--

JAY BOATMAN:  909-888-5222.

VINCE DANIELS:  --when we continue on the other side. Thirty-nine after the 
hour. You're listening to Vince Daniels.

[End of Segment 3.]