"The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" Radio Show, February 17, 2007 http://Stop-Narconon.org/StoneHawk Segment 4 VINCE DANIELS: All right, coming up on 10 minutes to the hour and our phone number, by the way, 909-888-5222, but write that down for next time. We're getting a lot of calls here today and it's always nice and flattering, of course, is it not, Kim? KIM JOHNSON: Absolutely. It's nice to know you have listeners out there. VINCE DANIELS: We do and you will, I'm sure, tomorrow, 1:00. KIM JOHNSON: One o'clock, Overground Railroad, me and my co-host Mike Desalt. VINCE DANIELS: And Kim Johnson, that's who you are. KIM JOHNSON: Yes, that's who I am. VINCE DANIELS: You're joining me today and will be joining me here in the weeks to come while we are on the talent search for a co-host here for "The Many Moods," female. KIM JOHNSON: That's right. VINCE DANIELS: And for any of you interested, just e-mail me care of Vince Daniels at VinceDaniels.com. Just talked to--that was interesting--taking to Kate and listening to, you know, the usual PR. KIM JOHNSON: Yeah, yeah. I mean-- VINCE DANIELS: Your typically spokes-holes. KIM JOHNSON: It's interesting. You know, it's interesting to expose any kind of drama, debate, controversy. VINCE DANIELS: Yeah, and somebody who did that actually for a long time is joining us here for the balance of the show, Patty Pieniadz, and great to have you, Patty. PATTY PIENIADZ: Hi, Vince. KIM JOHNSON: Hi, Patty. PATTY PIENIADZ: Thank you very much for having me on. VINCE DANIELS: Now, you ran a Narconon center for-- PATTY PIENIADZ: I did, right here in Connecticut. VINCE DANIELS: How long? PATTY PIENIADZ: I was the--well, I worked there for a total of about six years. I was the executive director for two and a half, and then after that I was promoted up into the Church of Scientology to control the Narconons in all of New England. VINCE DANIELS: Now, I want to say, first of all, a couple things. First of all, as far as the phone calls, and people are continuing to call and we do thank you and appreciate it. It's just that we're not--we had hoped to in the time that we just had we were going to open up those 15 minutes before you, Patty, to take callers but Kate Wickstrom, of course, wanted to chime in and I'm glad we let her and Per in there as well. PATTY PIENIADZ: Sure. VINCE DANIELS: But we are going to have a show here probably next week or week after in which we do take your phone calls, so I do thank everyone for taking the time to call us here today, and just hang onto the phone number, 909-888-5222. We will pick this up. My co-host Kim Johnson asked a question of Kate Wickstrom who runs the Stone Hawk Drug Rehabilitation Center and she did not come up with the answer to that question. KIM JOHNSON: Yeah. I was quite curious if there was the pivotal moment five years ago and something that clearly changed her mind in the area of rehabilitation and it's clearly made a huge impression on her, that what was that? And she said that she read something. VINCE DANIELS: Yeah. She said she had a big change, a big change [inaudible]. KIM JOHNSON: A big change and that she had read something, and when I asked her specifically what was that material there, it just, you know, there wasn't a direct response. And if you're truly proud of something, what would be the problem in saying yeah, it was Scientology information that made me have that turnaround? If you're that strongly in belief of something then why wouldn't you feel free to absolutely promote it? VINCE DANIELS: Is that what she read five years ago, Patty? PATTY PIENIADZ: Well, I'm sure she's saying that her husband had attended the Narconon out in Oklahoma and was successful. What he was successful at is becoming a Scientologist. Most of the--if you actually look at the success rate of the people who make it in the Narconon program and who stay off drugs are the ones who become Scientologists, and I know this myself from having to correct statistics from the Narconons and find out who's still there and who's not and who's made it and who's not. And it's the ones who move on and become Scientologists and buy the whole package remain off drugs, are the ones who move off to the other programs. I mean, maybe a small percentage stay off drugs because they would anyway. Something, they just grew up. Others have to attend other programs. But the Scientology connection is, it's a crazy connection. They're completely and utterly, 100% run by the Church. There's no doubt about that. I know because that was my job when I worked for the Church. And what she's afraid of is that this is going to somehow affect her licensing or potential funding, because the fact is that it is-- KIM JOHNSON: It comes from-- PATTY PIENIADZ: Everything they do is involved with the religious aspects of Scientology, but if they say that then that's going to cut them off from any government funds that they're trying to go after and possibly even hurt them in their licensing department because it will change things, that these people are using religion or, in this case, a cult to help people rather than actually use proven medical or proven forms of therapy that help people. KIM JOHNSON: That's what I was confused about though. I mean, in success rate, if that's the success rate they have, you have one and they stay in the Church, I don't--that's not where my argument or where kind of my conflict comes in. It's that if that is what it is, then be proud of it. PATTY PIENIADZ: Be right upfront. KIM JOHNSON: They don't say that. PATTY PIENIADZ: Right prior to me moving up into the organization and to controlling the Narconons from the Church, I did a newspaper interview with a local paper and actually came out. I was sick and tired of lying as the executive director. KIM JOHNSON: Yeah. PATTY PIENIADZ: I actually came out and said, yes, we're connected to Scientology. Yes, we are. And I got in trouble for that but it was--it blew over, fortunately for--well, unfortunately for me at that time. But there has always been the connection, but what happens is part of the insanity of all of this Narconon/Scientology connection is that there's a constant lie that's always being present that this poor woman, Kate, has to go through all the time. She doesn't recognize the fact that she has to cover up these lies. She's being told to do this by the Scientology management. KIM JOHNSON: I see, yeah. PATTY PIENIADZ: She would probably just as soon come out and tell the truth but she's being told she can't. It's a, it's a-- VINCE DANIELS: You know, oooh, okay. This is almost like a universal like point of what's going on that I'm conflicted with universally. What is--if you believe so strongly in something then have the strength to say and the courage and to fight for your truth. VINCE DANIELS: Right, it is. Well, that's the whole thing. Narconon is a microcosm of Scientology. PATTY PIENIADZ: That's right. VINCE DANIELS: And, yeah, in one respect, even though I do blame Kate and Per, really, when you get down to it, you feel sorry for them in one respect because they're just, as you say, Patty, they're just the stooges, you know. PATTY PIENIADZ: They are. They are stooges. I mean, they are dupes. They don't-- KIM JOHNSON: But by choice. VINCE DANIELS: By choice, you're right. KIM JOHNSON: They're not a victim and if that's what they're professing and trying to say in their home or in their facility then, you know, they're not a victim either. VINCE DANIELS: No. PATTY PIENIADZ: There comes a time when everyone has to stand up and just say enough. KIM JOHNSON: I agree. VINCE DANIELS: Enough is enough. PATTY PIENIADZ: I'm telling lies, I'm covering, I'm trying to cover my butt all the time. There's all this craziness going on around me. The Church is trying to--is controlling this. They're telling me what to do. And they think it's all justified with the idea of I'm trying to help people, I'm trying to free mankind and make mankind better, so therefore the end justifies the means. VINCE DANIELS: Let's ask you, Patty, at what point, when did you have an awakening in your life? PATTY PIENIADZ: Well, a few years back I actually came to realize that I was in fear of this very thing that I thought was supposed to help all of mankind. KIM JOHNSON: Interesting. PATTY PIENIADZ: The Church runs and Narconon runs by fear. They control your communications, who you can talk to, what you can read, the fact that you couldn't read anything on the Internet, you couldn't read certain books. The control was horrible and my sister and I had been talking and I wanted to start a business with her, and I was afraid. I was afraid to start that business because I was afraid the Church would get mad at me for doing something other than helping with them. VINCE DANIELS: You were on the equivalent of their, what, Dirty Tricks Committee. PATTY PIENIADZ: I worked for their Office of Special Affairs for 14 years. I was involved in helping them go after their perceived enemies and steal people's trash and go through it and make phone calls to try to disrupt organizations. And I was put into one organization for a couple of years to just, I guess, basically infiltrate it for them and reported back. I mean, I was a true believer. I was one of the bad guys, believe me, and my coming out and speaking out is sort of my [laughs] amends, if you will, for all the rotten things that I knew that was going on in there but was blinded by it. I mean, I truly was, and that's why I do feel sorry for Kate because while she's a perpetrator at this point of a fraud, she's also a victim of it. She can't--she's been so thoroughly indoctrinated by these people that what she's doing is a good thing. KIM JOHNSON: Is this what fear does? VINCE DANIELS: That's what fear does, absolutely. PATTY PIENIADZ: It's just horrible. VINCE DANIELS: Listen, Patty, we really appreciate and we're up against a clock. I appreciate you so much for coming on. All this today, by the way, is in tribute to your sister, Wendy. PATTY PIENIADZ: Oh, thank you. VINCE DANIELS: She, of course, Wendy who died of bone cancer just a few days ago, very young age, 46. KIM JOHNSON: I'm sorry for your loss. PATTY PIENIADZ: Yup. She was a fighter and she spoke out against people who were mean and cruel and tried to dominate others, so I know this is rather soon for me but I do it to honor her. VINCE DANIELS: Thank you. KIM JOHNSON: Thank you. VINCE DANIELS: Oh, and what a tribute. Thank you so much, Patty Pieniadz for coming on. Thank you, my dear. PATTY PIENIADZ: Oh, thank you, you're the best. VINCE DANIELS: And I appreciate, you know, your being with us here these next few weeks. KIM JOHNSON: Thank you. PATTY PIENIADZ: Okay, anytime. VINCE DANIELS: Anytime. PATTY PIENIADZ: Oh, and by the way, people who know about this, be sure to contact either Stop-Narconon.org or NarcononVictims.com and get together with other people so we can fight this, this group, and get them exposed. VINCE DANIELS: We have that linked as well on VinceDaniels.com. PATTY PIENIADZ: Great. VINCE DANIELS: Patty, thank you very much. PATTY PIENIADZ: Bye-bye. VINCE DANIELS: Kim, thank you very much for being here today and see you next week. KIM JOHNSON: It's been my pleasure and please tune in tomorrow for Mike Desalt and my show The Overground Railroad, from 1:00 to 2:00 PM tomorrow. VINCE DANIELS: Great show. KIM JOHNSON: Every Sunday. VINCE DANIELS: Great show. Yeah, and you do a wonderful job on that. Look forward to seeing you again. KIM JOHNSON: Thank you, thank you. VINCE DANIELS: Tomorrow afternoon and we will talk to you again next Saturday. KIM JOHNSON: Yes. VINCE DANIELS: Ten o'clock. KIM JOHNSON: Goodbye, everybody. VINCE DANIELS: And have a great week. Bye-bye, everybody. KIM JOHNSON: Bye. ANNOUNCER: "The Many Moods of Vince Daniels" is a presentation of KCAA 1050 AM, Loma Linda, and is also streamed live worldwide on the Net and on demand anytime by podcast. Just click on the Saturday schedule link on the KCAAradio.com site. Remember to check out VinceDaniels.com for the latest on what's coming up on "The Many Moods," along with archived shows plus articles and photos of past guests and more. You're welcome to e-mail the show, care of Vince Daniels at VinceDaniels.com, and join Vinnie again for three hours of talk and variety next Saturday morning at 10 Pacific. [End of Segment 4.]