SCIENTOLOGY              ) Case No. CV 91 6426 HLH (Tx)
a California             )
on-profit religious      ) DECLARATION OF GRAHAM E.
organization,            ) BERRY RE DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
                         ) OF GARRY SCARFF IN SUPPORT OF
Plaintiff,               ) COST BILL FOR DR. GEERTZ'S
                         ) MOTION FOR AWARD OF COSTS,
vs.                      ) EXPENSES, ATTORNEY'S FEES AND
                         ) SANCTIONS
AND UWE GEERTZ,          )
                         ) Date: APRIL 4, 1994
          Defendants.    ) Time: 10:00 a.m.
                         ) Courtroom: 7

            [Filed and served
            concurrently with Dr.
            Geertz's Bill of Costs.]

I, GRAHAM E. BERRY, declare as follows:

1. I am an attorney at law licensed to practice before all the
Courts of the State of California and before this District
Court. I am a partner of Lewis, D'Amato, Bristois & Bisgaard,
attorneys of record for defendant Uwe Geertz, Ph.D.
("Dr. Geertz"). I have personal knowledge of all the matters set
forth herein and if called upon to do so I could and would
competently testify thereto under oath.

2. This declaration Concerns the deposition testimony of Garry
Scarff and is offered in support of the motion for costs, fees,
expenses and sanctions filed by Dr. Geertz.

3. I attended the deposition of Gerry Scarff taken in this action
over the course of 17 days during July and August 1993. Attached
hereto as Exhibit "A" is a true and correct copy of the exceprts
of Mr. Scraff's deposition testimony. The excerpts of testimony
are organized into subjects and a table of contents has been
prepared and is attached as part of Exhibit "A".  In his
deposition, Mr. Scraff testified about various criminal and
wrongful activities directed by or discussed in the presence of
attorney's from the law offfices of Bowles & Moxon including:
death threats, Scientology's Fair Game doctrine, plans to kill
Cult Awareness Network presidnet Cynthia Kisser and attorney Ford
Greene, Threats against witnesses, instructions to commit
suicide, misdirecting and misleading investigations and
prosecutions of Scientology, the filing of frivolous lawsuits,
financial scams, lies and fraud by Scientology and similar
activities, all as set forth in Exhibit "A" hereto.

4. The testimony of Garry Scarff is offered to establish that
this action is frivolous and that CSI and its counsel have
engaged in a pattern of filing frivolous lawsuits to harass and
oppress their perceived opponents. I declare under penalty of
perjury that the foregoing is true and correct, and that this
declaration is executed under the laws of the State of California
on March 8, 1994 at Los Angeles, California.

Signed Graham E Berry


[** :: This section of Scarff's full deposition is included here]


** Death Threats for Testimony Critical of Scientology....  1

** Death Threats by Eugene Ingram-Fair Game Doctrine 2

** Plan 100 Scheme-SLAPP Suits Against Cult Awareness Network 3

** Campaign to Incriminate Without Merit Cult Awareness Network 4

** Office of Special Affairs Operation attempting to get Criminal
Charges Reinstated Against Rick Ross ...............5

** Description of "Terminal" - Person in Chain of Command To Whom
One Reports.....  6

** Overt Operation Against Cult Awareness Network. Run
Conncurrently With Covert Operations Against CAN ....  7

** Deliberate Creation of False Declarations to be Used in
Litigation Against CAN.  9

** Substantiation of Scarff's Relationship With
Scientology.............  11

** Scarff's Scientologv Operations Against CAN; Scarff Defects
from Scientology. ...............12

** Ingram Paid Employee of Bowles & Moxon.  Scarff Threatened
Because of operations against CAN 13

** Ingram Threatens Scarff if He Reveals Information About the
Church of Scientology: Family Threatened as Well ............15.

** Al Post? Threatens Scarff: Scarff Describes Fair Game Doctrine
and its current use 19

** Scarff Uses His Access to Law Enforcement Data Systems and
National Crime Information Computer to Run Names of Perceived
Enemies for CSI: Criminal Records Stolen and Destroyed on CSI
Orders; Records First Reviewed by Office of Special Affairs-Gwen
Mayfield 22

** Operation Snow White 26

** Operations Against CAN Described.  27

** Stolen Criminal Documents to be Used to get Cynthia Kisser and
Anne Greek Arrested 28

** Gwen Mayfield, Director of Special Affairs for the Mission of
Davis in Portland. Directs Scarff to go to Courthouse and Steal
Court Documents 30

** David Butterworth and Eugene Ingram Instruct Scarff to Steal
Court Documents; Ingram Threatens Scarff if He Does Not Comply 32

** Decription of Ingram Connections Within the Los Angeles Police
Department and FBI, anf that These Connections Will be Used to
Trump up Charges on Scarff if he Does Not Comply 35

** Ingram's Instructions to Steal Given After Threats of Possible
Criminal Charges Against Scarff ....... 39

** Scarff Directed to Use Law Enforcement Computer Network to
Retreive Information About Julie Cristofferson.  Her Mother. and
Her Attorneys to be Used Against Cristofferson: Cristofferson
Sued CSI in 1979 .... 40

** Books Critical of Scientology Stolen and Destroyed.  42

** Operations Against Richard Behar Described: Scarff Involved in
Financial Scams for CSI: Scarff Directed to Murder Cynthia Kisser
of CAN. and Move to Brazil Afterwards 45

** Description Given of how CSI Members Hide Out While Fleeing to
Avoid Prosecution.................. 53

** Murder Conspiracy Directed Against Ford Greene, an Attorney
Who Represented Parties Against CSI .......  54

** Bowles & Moxon Part of CSI, Its Offices Located Directly Above
Office of Special Affairs 55

** Bowles & Moxon Office Inside CSI Building.  57

** Timothy Bowles a Member of CSI, Office of Special Affairs 58

** Moxon Involved in Operation Snow White and Conspiracy to
Murder Cynthia Kisser and Fird Greene 60

** Bowles & Moxon to Intervene on Scarff's Behalf Once Ms. Kisser
was Murdered 61

** Eugene Ingram, David Butterworth.  Tim Bowles. Ken Moxon.
Mauri Bartilson and Scarff Present at Meeting Where Murder of
Ford Greene Discussed: Meeting at Bowles & Moxon Office:
Specifics of Murder Discussed; Bartilson took Notes 62

** Scarff Confirms that Tim Bowles was at Meeting When Murder or
Ford Greene was Discussed 65

Scarff Works With CSI in Creating Lawsuits Avainst CAN 66

** Conspiracy to Murder Ford Greene I nvolved Ken Moxon. Tim
Bowles.  Lauri Bartilson. Eugene Ingram and David Butterworth 67

** Discrepancy in Declaration Explained 68

** David Butterworth Pressures Scarff to Murder Ford Greene 70

** Planned Murders of Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene Discussed;
Planned Release of False Information: Scarff Threatened by Ingram

[ No more ** sections beyond this point. ]

Murder of Ford Greene Discussed 73

Scarff Copies Ford Greene's File for Gwen Mayfield.  74

Plan 100 Discussed By David Butterworth - 100 Frivolous Lawsuits
to be Filed and Maintiained Against CAN to Bankrupt it 78

CSI's Litigation Stategy of Harrasment to Force Critics into
Bankruptcy 80

Scarff Informed by Ingram that Bowles & Moxon Will File for
Jonathan Nordchris .. ... 81

Nordchris and Scarff Lawsuits Invented by CSI for its Own
Benefit; Tim Bowles Involved in Scarff7s Lawsuit: Other Lawsuits
Prepared by Bowles & Moxon Against CAN 82

Bowles & Moxon Recieves Donation from Kristie Alley to maintain
plan 100 lawsuits; other contributions sought 90

Tim Bowles & Attorney Mark Seagal of Portland, Oregon, Train
Witnesses How To Effectively Lie Under Oath 91

Fair Garne Doctrine 93

Exhibit Introduced Regarding Fair Garne Policy Against CAN 94

Bowles & Moxon Primary Legal Counsel For CSI.  95

Moxon Gloats Over His Never Being Arrested and Convicted by the
FBI.  96

Moxon History Discussed 98

CSI has a Witness School Where Scientologists are Taught to Lie
Convincingly 99

Judges and Opposing Attorneys Subject to Fair Game doctrine 101

Attorney Michael Flynn Subjected to Fair Game Tactics; Attorney
Graham Berry of Our Offices Targeted 102

CSI's Fair Game tactics Against Judges; CSI Compromizes Judge 104

1987 Operanon Against Ford Greene: Compromise. Blackmail or
Murder Greene . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .107

Conspiracy to Murder Cynthia Kisser: Ties to Time Magazine
Artlcle 108

CSI's use of Litigation to Harass.  Silence and Destroy Critics:
Plan 100; Specific Litigation Ta;ctics - "Paper" Opposing Party
to Death: Delaying Tactics . . . . . . . . . . . . . I09

Litigation Used to Bankrupt Opposition, a Specific Goal of CSI's
Tactics.  113

policies of L. Ron Hubbard cannot be Changed or Revised After His
Death.  115

SLAPP Suits filed to Silence Critics; Fair Game Doctrine:

Current Use of Litigation as Part of Fair Game Doctrine Targeted
at Richard Behar .. 116

of Nazi Gerrnanv Tactics in Its Own Operations 119

CSI Burglarized Opponents, Steal Confidential Files and
Infiltrated Government of fives . . . 122

CSI Fabricates Declaration to be Used Against Cynthia Kisser:
Ingram a Contact for False Declarant - Kathy Lane 123

Corporate Structure of CSI.  124

CSI Surveillance Operations Against CAN Members 126

Timothy Bowles Directs Scarff to Engage in Felony Financial Scam:
Gwen Mayfield to be Involved: CSI itself to Receive Benefit of
Operation . .. . . . . .127

Mr. Weiner of Bowles & Moxon Misrepresents that His Offices Has
Scarff's Files: CSI Discovev Practice is to Release Documents as
Long as Bowles & Moxon is the Final Arbitrator on what
Information is Released 129

Threatened and Actual Physical Mistreatment of Church Members:
Threatened Use of Confidential Files Against Scarff 132

Planned Murder of Cynthia Kisser; Ingram's Threats Against Scarff

Timothy Bowles Threatens Scarff With Criminal Prosecution. 137

Bolwes Intimidates Scarff at Deposition in Wisel Case 138

Scraff Confirms that Manv Scientology Adherents Have Suffered
Mental or Phvsical Abuse the Hands of the CSI 141

Gwen Mayfield Instructs Scarff to Steal Monies Donated to
Positive Action Center. an Affiliate of CAN; Scarff Steals 70% of
Those Donations 143

Scarff Confinns that Many of the Groups Followers Have Been
Accused of Committing Financial Scams 144

Ingram Turns Over Deliberatlv False Reports to the FBI. IRS. the
Justice Department, the Attorney General's Office and the
Postmanset General Rewarding the Alleged Criniinal Activities of
CAN 145

Scarff Steals Funds from Positive Action Center.  146

Scarff Explains HNoisy Investigations Operations Carrried Out by
CSI - This Includes Telephone Calls to the Victim and Harassment:
Surveillance Activities of CSI 147

Exhibits of Examples of Operations Against CAN.  149

Obtain Money fror the Benefit of Bowles & Moxon and Office of
Special Affairs . . .. . .. . . . .. . . . 150

Vicki Aznaran Leaves Scientology and Descibes Its as a Criminal
Organization 151

CSI Carried out Criminal Activities sis 152

Operation Carried Out Against Ford Greene Meant to Destroy His
Personal and Professional Integrity 153

EuPene Ingram Creates False Declaration for Jonathan Nordquist in
Lawsuit Agamst CAN 154

Merit and at the Behest of CSI 155

CSI Steals Government Stationary to Forge Letters Upon it 156

CSI Infiltration Into Government Agencies; Infiltration Into IRS
and Mailing of Confidential Documents to Scientology Members 157

Stealing of Court Records 158

Burglary Methods to Obtain and Steal Documents: Guardian's Office
Involvement . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . .  159

Intelligence Courses of Spying: Brainwashing in Connection With
CSI 160

Scarff's Alibi Visit to Christion Fellowship Church to Cover Role
in Planned Murder of Cynthia Kisser 161

Conspiracy to Murder Cynthia Kisser 162


Scarff Assualted in Portland: Threatened by Timothy Bowles 164

Ingram Blackmails Scarff.  165

Private Investigator for CSI Investigates Scarff.  166

Ingrain Threatens Scarff With Jail if He Failed to Cooperate 167

Ingram Threatens Scarff with Ingram's File on Him.  168

Ingram Threatens Scarff With Criminal Prosecution if He Fails to
Cooperate. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 169

Ingram Threatens Scarff With if He Fails to Cooperate. 171

Ingram Threatens Scarff With Criminal Prosecution With
Information Created by Ingram 172

CSI Creates Declarations for Scarff to Discredit , Ingram
Threatens to Kill Scarff and His Family 174

Conspriracy to Murder Ford Greene ... ..175

Kisser 176

CSI's Pattern of Destroying Documents that are Requested by
Subpoena: Office of Special Affairs and Bowles and Moxon Pattern

David Butterworth and Eugene Ingram Advise Scarff of Their
Directive for Him to Kill Cynthia Kisser 178

Euvene Ingram Offers Scarff a Bribe to be Silent on Murder
Conspiracy Regarding Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene 179

Eugene Ingram's Plans to use Scarff as a Witness Offering False
Testimony Against CAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 181

CSI Involved in Scarff's Frivolous Lawsuit.  182

CSI Ordered Scarff to Murder Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene.  183

CSI engaged in Fraudulent Activities to Further CS1 Activities.
Including Teaching Individuals how to Defraud th U.S.  Government
of Student Loan Funds: Scarff Ordered to Kill Two Individuals,
and then Committ Suicide 184

CSI Routinelv Destroys Documents in Order to Evade Prosecutorial
or Investigative Actions Against it 185

President of the Church of Scientology Instructs Scarff to Copy
Documents from Ford Greene 187

Office of Special Affairs Wiretap Operations and Taping People
Without Their Consent as aprt of Fair Garne Doctrine 189

George Robertson Inforrns Scarff of Recording Devices in CAN
Mernber's Rooms; Scarff Carries Concealed Tape Recorder to Tape
Conversations of Individuals Involved in Litigation Against CSI
for Purposes of Incrimination I90

CSI Office of Special Affairs and Bowles & Moxon Involved with
Conspiracy to Murder Individuals .......192

Scarff Threatens Rick Ross. a Deprogrammer, at the Direction of
David Butterworth . . . . . . . .. . . . . 193

CSI and Bowles & Moxon's Campaign to Trurnp up Charades in Order
to have Rick Ross Arrested for Kidnapping 194

Eugene Ingram Procures False Sworn Declaration by Cathy Lane
Against Cynthia Kisser 195

Eugeme Ingrain has Scarff Sign False Declaration Under Penalty of
Perjury. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196

Ingram Files False Declaration to State Bar.  198

Eugene Ingram Threatens to Murder Prosecution Witness and
Scarff. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 199

CSI. Ingram and David Butterworth Prepare Fraudulent Affidavit
for Scarfs 200

David Butterworth, Eugene Ingram and Scarff Discuss Murdering
Cynthia Kisser by way of a Staged Car Accident 201

Scarff Directed to Murder Cynthia Kisser.  202

Scarff Flies to Chicago to Murder Cynthia Kisser: Ingram to
Provide Alibi 203

Murder Plot Regarding Cynthia Kisser.  205

Scarff Explains Murder Plot of Cynthia Kisser to Reverend Peter
Paine: CSI Orders to Murder Kisser on Direction of David
Butterworth and Eugene Ingram 206

Eugene Ingrams Directs Scarff to Murder Cynthia Kisser's 208

Plan 100 and Murder Plot of Cynthis Kisser 209

Scarff Believes He Will be Murdered After He Carries Out the CSI
Directive on Murdering Cynthia Kisser 210

Eugene Ingram Confirms that CSI has Covered up Murder as Suicide
Before. 211

Tim Bowles. Kendrick Moxon, Lauri Bartilson. Eugene Ingram and
Another Bowles & Moxon Attorney Discuss Setting up Ford Greene
for Criminal Charges and Murdering Ford Greene 212

Eugene Ingram and David Butterworth Discuss Setting up Ford
Greene for Criminal Charges and Murdering Ford Greene: Meeting
Takes Place in Office of Special Affairs Directly Below Offices
of Bowles & Moxon 213

Murder Conspiracy Regarding Ford Greene and Cynthia Kisser
Discusses 214

Scarff Discusses Personal Threats Made by Eugene Ingram 216

Conspiracy to Murder Ford Greene.  217

Fair Game and Harrassment Doctrines Discussed 218

Scarff Pleads Fifth Amendment Regarding CSI Operation in Portland
Bank 219

David Butterworth and Eugene Ingram Discuss Murder of Cynthia
Kisser and Ford Greene 220

Eugene Ingram Arranges False Declaration of Cathv Lane Regarding
Cynthia Kisser 221

Project Quaker-Hiding Individuals Fleeing Prosecution.  223

False declaration of Cathy Lane Regarding Cynthia Kisser 224

Eugene Ingram Obtains False Declaration Under Penalty of Perjury
by Curtis Harmon. Who Later Retracts the DeGaXQE 225

Bowles & Moxon Provide Scarff and Jonathan Nordquist with False
Declaration Against CAN 226

Bowles & Moxon Behind all the SLAPP Suits Brought Against the
CAN.  227

CAN 173

Glen Barton's SLAPP Lawsuit Against CAN.  228

CSI plans to Destroy all Incriminating Documents.  229

Scarff Meets David Miscavige After Meeting at Bowles & Moxon
Where Conspircy to Murder Ford Greene Was Discussed 230

Bowles & Moxon Created Plan 100 Which Direct CSI to File 10\0
SLAPP Lawsuits Against Perceived Enemies 231

Scarff Describes CSI as a Criminal Organization.  232

CSI Engaged in Financial Scams. Conspiracy to Murder Two
Individuals. and Suggesting to Scarff that He Commit Suicide 233

Eugene Ingram Involved in CSI Operations Against Steven Fishman

David Butterworth and Eugene Ingram Pressure Scarff to Murder
Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene 235


Death Threats for Testimony Critical of Scientology.

MR. BERRY: And why have you requested that security arrangements
be in place in this building.

THE WITNESS: Because of the Church of Scientology's Fair Game
Doctrine which has been unlawfully used in many ways to
intimidate, harass and injure people. It has been used by
Scientology members, including by Eugene Ingram, an employee of
Tim Bowles, to threaten to murder me and members of my family if
I say or do anything whatsoever critical of the Church of
Scientology in any legal proceeding.

MR. BERRY: Mr. Scarff, do you know a man called Mr. Gene Ingram?


(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [12], in. 15 - p. [13],
in. 3.)

Death Threats by Eugene Ingram-Fair Game Doctine

Q.  And are you prepared to state your address for record?

A.  I am not.

Q.  Is there a reason for that?

A.  The Fair Game policy instituted by the Church of Scientology
against me.

Q.  Do you have any other reasons to substantiate your refusal to
state your address on the record?

A.  There have been death threats on my life and the life of my
family, and I

will not allow the dross to know where I currently live.

Q.  Who made those threats, if you know?

A.  An employee of Bowles & Moxon by the name of Eugene Ingram.

Q.  Have there been occasions on which your home has been visited
by people who give you concern to fear for your safety?

A.  Yes.

Q.  What is the basis for your concern as to your safety if you
put your address on the record here?

A.  In addition to the threats which I have received by officials
of the Church of Scientology, I have been visited by individuals
that I suspect may be involved in the Church of
Scientology. People who have come to my door and refused to speak
with me until I answered the door and suspicious activity very
close to my apartment and people coming asking questions of my
neighbors about me, questions that they would not know about
unless they were personally intimately involved with me.  It is
just part of the Fair Game policy instituted by the Church of
Scientology against me. And I will not allow you to have my
residential address at this time.

Q.  Was there any incident involving vehicles?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Could you tell us about that?

A.  I was visited by a gentleman at the front door who knocked on
my door.  I opened the window of my living room which opens out
on to the street level.

I asked him what he wanted. He said that I would have to open the
door because he needed to speak with me, that he had some papers
that he needed to give me. And I heard some whispering and I
looked over to the left looking out the screen to the left and I
saw a gentleman with his back to the wall next to my door trying
to conceal himself.

I also noticed a red van out in the parking lot with a door ajar
with an individual in the van looking at my apartment.

At that time I advised the person that I was calling 911.  I got
on the phone to call 9 l l and I said I am calling the
police. The next thing I heard was the van screeching out of the
parking lot. The individuals are no longer at my door. The van
was taking off at a high speed outside my parking lot. And then I
noticed an older car like an Oldsmobile rushing within a few feet
behind it out of the parking lot taking off.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [22], in. 18 - p. [24],
in. 19.)

Plan 100 Scheme-SLAPP Suits Against Cult Awareness Network.

Q.  Turning now to Exhibit-16 what is Exhibit-16, Mr. Scarff?

A.  16 is a copy of a lawsuit which was part of the OSA, Office
of Special Affairs, and Bowles & Moxon's scheme called Plan 100,
which was number of SLAPS suits which were filed against the Cult
Awareness Network, and this was a lawsuits which Bowles & Moxon
had intended to file on my behalf.

THE WITNESS: And on the last page you will notice a Timothy
Bowles representing himself as my attorney in this lawsuit.


Q.  Is there any indication on the top of the documents as to its

A.  Yes. This exhibit is actually the second -- I am sorry, the
third draft of the complaint. If you notice under the complaint
for damages it says Scarff No. 3. At the time it was faxed to me
on January 27, 1992 from Bowles & Moxon.

Q.  And that appears to be a 13-page document?

A.  It is a 13-page document

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 16 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [49], in. 21 - p. [50],
In. 24.)

Campaign to Incriminate Without Merit Cult Awareness Network.

Q.  Now, you referred to a campaign. What did you mean by that?

A.  It was another operation against the Cult Awareness Network
to incriminate without merit the Cult Awareness Network.

Q.  And who conducted this operation?

A.  The Office of Special Affairs in coordination with Bowles &
Moxon, in coordination with Eugene Ingram and a number of other
individuals that have worked with us. Dr. George Robertson and a
slew of other individuals who wanted to see the Cult Awareness
Network cease to exist.

Q.  Did you actually hear people say that they wanted the Cult
Awareness Network to cease to exist?

A.  On many occasions. Many occasions, yes.

Q.  And were these people within the Office of Special Affairs?

A.  Office of Special Affairs. Also at Bowles & Moxon. And
various Scientology entities throughout the United States that I
had contact and association with.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 66 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of GalTy L. Scarff, at p. [129], in. 18 - p. [130],
in. 19.)

Office of Special Affairs Operation attempting to get Criminal
Charges Reinstated Against Rick Ross.

Q.  And just so we don't have any misunderstanding, when we refer
to OSA through this deposition, are we referring to the Office of
Special Affairs of the Church of Scientology Intemational?

A.  We are referring to the Office of Special Affairs, Church of
Scientology Intemational, which is formerly known as the
Guardian's Office which the church and their public relations has
said no longer exists.

Going back to the first letter from Rick Ross.  Evidently someone
at that conference had taken a copy of my press release and sent
it to Rick Ross, and this is a response from Rick Ross basically
threatening legal action against me for comments I made in the
letter and explaining that some of the infommation I had was not
correct. And he sent me Page 2, which is an order from the
Superior Court of Washington whereby charges against Mr. Ross had
been dismissed without prejudice and I spoke to at that time I
believe it was Aaron Mason at Bowles & Moxon about the document.
And he told me that Rick Ross was kind of skirting the issue in
his letter because when something is dismissed without prejudice
it means that it can be refiled again. And that David Butterworth
was working on Jason Scott to constantly hammer at the district
attorney in the Bellevue, Washington area to get him to reinstate
charges against Rick Ross.

Q.  Jason Scott is referred to as a cc on the last page of
Exhibit-72, correct, above your name?

A.  I don't see that.

Q.  The last page of Exhibit-72. The next page.

A.  That's correct.

Q.  And did you substantially apply --

A.  This wasn't a cc to them. In the body of the press release,
if you notice on Page 5 it says for more information on
deprogramming you can contact these individuals, and he is listed
as one of these individuals.

Q.  You just mentioned Aaron Mason at Bowles & Moxon.  Does Jason
Scott have a connection with Bowles & Moxon?

A.  I don't know that. I can't speak

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 72 was marked for identification and is
ound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L.  Scarff, at p. [148], in. 12 - p. [150],
in. 11.)

Description of "Terminal" - Person in Chain of Command To Whom
One Reports.

Q.  What did you mean by the word sterminal'?

A.  A terminal is the person that each person is responsible to
answering to as far as getting direct -- getting directives from
passing on information. It is a line of communication. Each
person has a terminal that they pass information to and any time
they have a report to make they pass it to that specific
individual who passes it on to another terminal and it goes up
like a chain of command.

David Butterworth was a person that I was responsible to for
passing on information. Many times when I thought it was okay to
pass information on to Gwen Mayfield I found out otherwise
because I was chastised for doing so. And it was made very clear
to me that my time I had any type of intelligence information
that I was to pass this on directly to David Butterworth. And a
system had been set up with both David Butter vorth and Eugene
Ingram that any phone calls that I made were reimbursed by Bowles
& Moxon through Eugene. Therefore, I was constantly in contact
with the Office of Special Affairs, and if you were to look at my
phone records over the last year, you would see that I had almost
daily contact with Mr. Butterworth at the OAS in Los Angeles.


Q.  Mr. Butterworth you said was your terminal?

A.  That's correct.

Q.  He was above you on the command line then, is that right?

A.  That's correct.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 73 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L.  Scarff, at p. [154], in. 25 - p. [156],
in. 15.)

Overt Operation Against Cult Awareness Network. Run Conncurrently
With Covert Operations Against CAN

Q.  Turning your attention to Page 3, is that your signature on
Page 3 of that document?

A.  We are talking about Exhibit-No. --n

Q.  78.

A.  Yes, that is my signature.

Q.  And this is a letter that you mailed yourself to the 500
people that you just spoke about, correct?

A.  This is a letter which was created by myself in addition to
Mr. Butterworth and Ms. Mayfield which was sent, yes.

Q.  Did you have discussions with David Butterworth and Gwen
Mayfield regarding the creation and finalization of this letter?

A.  Yes. Like I said before, I was not allowed to mail this
letter out until I had the final approval of David Butterworth.

Q.  Whose idea was it, if I may use that word, to send this
letter in the first place?

A.  David Butterworth.

Q.  How do you know that?

A.  Because David Butterworth instructed me that with everything
that had been happening, particularly after a number of incidents
that resulted out of the church's Fair Game Doctrine against
individuals it perceived to be its enemies, that they wanted to
kind of blind-side the Cult Awareness Network by promoting
dialogue which would be an overt operation and at the same time
they would continue their covert operations against the Cult
Awareness Network. But that the purpose of this letter was to
promote dialogue and hopefully communicate to those families
which Mr. Butterworth told me had expressed some opposition to
practices and decisions made within the Cult Awareness
Network. And if we could reach those families and get those
families to rebel and to leave the Cult Awareness Network, it
would assist the OSA into working toward their goal of destroying
the Cult Awareness Network .

Q.  When did Mr. Butterworth tell you all this?

A.  He told me this in July of '92

Q.  Did he tell you this in a telephone call or --

A.  Yes.

Q.  -- in person?

A.  No. These were a series of telephone calls both made to my
home and to the Mission of Davis where I was at the time.

Q.  And did you make any calls to Mr. Butterworth regarding this

A.  Yes. And my telephone records will prove that.

Q.  And with regard to the revisions to this letter, how did that
process work?

A.  Mr. Butterworth again told me that prior to making any
statements with regards to Cynthia Kisser that it needed the
approval of Mr.  Bowles or another legal within Bowles & Moxoo to
make sure that nothing in the content of this letter could be
legally held against them.

Q.  I understand that but this letter went through several
revisions, correct?

A.  It did go through several revisions.

Q.  How did the creation, revision and finalization process work
in terms of the letter going backwards and forwards?

A.  Initially it was simply a dialogue letter, but because of the
hold that Mr. Butterworth and others felt that Cynthia Kisser had
on the Cult Awareness Network because she had been in an
authority position within the Cult Awareness Network for many
years and had gained the respect of quite a few people, that we
needed to formulate a letter which would not only promote
dialogue but also show, quote, the truth, end quote, of the lack
of integrity that Ms. Kisser has exercised both in her personal
and professional life.

And so it was kind of a two-part letter. We had to denigrate
Cynthia Kisser but at the same time promote this dialogue.

Q.  Did drafts go back and forth between you and Mr. Butterworth?

A.  Yes, it did. I didn't have a fax machine so I had to go into
downtown to Mission of Davis and fax it through Mission of Davis
to Mr. Butterworth and he would fax it back to the Mission of
Davis for me.

Q.  And did there come a point in time where the very final draft
of this letter had been approved by Mr. Butterworth?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what happened then?

A.  The letter was sent to 550 plus members of the Cult Awareness
Network and their associates.

Q.  Did you send that letter to the 500 people?

A.  Yes.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [167], in. 12 - p. [171],
in. 4.)

Deliberate Creation of False Declarations to be Used in
Litigation Against CAN.

Q.  Moving on to Exhibit-No. 80, that is a two-page
document. What is that?

A.  The front copy is a copy of a check I received from Eugene
Ingram on August 14th, 1992 for what he refers to as witness fees
and expenses. And then the second copy is just an example of the
types of things that I sent to Eugene Ingram and asked for
reimbursement from.

Q.  So the second page is not the expenses that are being
reimbursed by the first page?

A.  That's correct. That's correct.

Q.  If this is an example of the sort of things that are being
reimbursed, what is the notation 'witness fees and expenses' at
the bottom of Mr. Ingram's check?

A.  As I have said on record before, I was acting under the
scheme of Scientology as the witness, as the suffering witness
for Eugene Ingram against the Cult Awareness Network. I was not
perceived to be the member of the Church of Scientology doing
these things against the Cult Awareness Network. I was the
witness. So on every check that he sent me that had absolutely
nothing to do with any type of legal process, he would always
write there witness fees.

Q.  And that was irrespective of the nature of the expense being

THE WITNESS: That's correct, because Mr.  Ingram was an employee
of Bowles & Moxon, a law firm, and I was considered a witness for
Bowles & Moxon.

Q.  You received a number of checks from Mr. Ingram, did you?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what was written in the memo section of those various

THE WITNESS: The memo section was different. There were different
explanations on various checks that I received from him.

Q.  So it wasn't always witness fees and expenses. Let me back up

A.  Let me refer to an earlier exhibit. Looking back to
Exhibit-31, for example, dated October 9th of '91, there was an
explanation in the memo box which does not, at least from what I
can read here, say expense fees. And I don't recall at that time
whether I wrote witness fees.

I believe in this example he wrote witness slash and then there
was another explanation. And I don't recall what that explanation
was. And then on this check it was witness fees plus expenses.

Q.  Was Exhibit-31 and Exhibit-32, were those checks presented to
you at the time that you prepared the four declarations with
Mr. Ingram?

A.  They were payment for me following my signature on the
declarations. But they were payment for my role in the deliberate
creation of these phony declarations, yes.

Q.  And after that Exhibit-16 was created which was the lawsuit
that you were to filed against the Cult Awareness Network,

A.  That is correct.

Q.  And then Exhibit-80, which we have just been looking at, was
after the creation of the draft lawsuit, correct?

A.  That's correct.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 80 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

Q.  Was there more than one occasion in which you received
reimbursement from Mr. Ingram?

A.  Monthly.

Q.  And what were that reimbursement for?

A.  For witness fees and expenses.

Q.  And was that what they were actually for?

A.  No.

Q.  What were they for?

A.  Expenses reflected the out-of-pocket expenses that I had in
the various operations that I was involved in, whether it be
letter writing complaints, phone calls, threatening phone calls
to individuals, any type of unlawful activity that may have
incurred an expense, Eugene reimbursed me for and I also provided
him with receipts, copies of my telephone bills and anything that
I could get a receipt on. And then from that he would reimburse

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [179], ln. 3 - p. [183],
in. 13.)

Substantiation of Scarff's Relationship With Scientology.

Q.  Now, turning to Exhibit-81, what is Exhibit-81 or the various
things which appear to be photocopied onto Exhibit-81?

A.  These are just things that I provided to Dan Leipold to in
part substantiate my relationship with Scientology. It includes
the business card of Eugene Ingram.  Business card from Henry
Kriegel, who is a member of a Montana cult.  A business card of
Mary Anne Ahmad who is a public relations director of the Church
of Scientology in Chicago. And also a letter I received from Mary
Anne Ahmad.

Q.  By 'letter' you mean a photocopy of an envelope?

A.  That's correct.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 81 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [183], in. 14 - p. [184],
in. 6.)

Scarff's Scientology Operations Against CAN; Scarff Defects from

Q.  Exhibit-82, that is a two-page letter unsigned.  What is

A.  This is a confidential letter that I sent to Cynthia Kisser
when I made the decision to defect from the Church of

Q.  And what was the purpose of that letter?

A.  Purpose of that letter was to offer to speak with her
attorneys and to relay a decision on my part to make amends for
all the anguish and pain that I caused a number of people as a
result of the Scientology operations that I was a part of on
behalf of Scientology

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 82 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

MR. WEINER: Excuse me, if I can interrupt, I don't believe you
asked him anything about the signature. I notice it is not
signed. If I may ask is the original of this letter signed?

THE WITNESS: Yes.  The original of this was signed


Q.  And this was your copy of that letter?

A.  That's correct.

(Deposition of Garry L.  carff, at p. 184, in. 8 - p. 185,
in. 10.)

Ingram Paid Emplovee of Bowles & Moxon: Scarff Threatened Because
of Operations Against CAN.

Q.  Does Eugene Ingram work for the law firm of Bowles & Moxon?

A.  Eugene Ingreun represents himself as a private investigator
who works for Bowels & Moxon that just happens to represent one
of many clients and that one client being the Church of
Scientology. That is a deliberate lie and a deliberate
misrepresentation meant not only to deceive the public but to
deceive the various facets of the judicial and legal system.

Eugene Ingram is a paid employee of Bowles & Moxon which is the
in-house law firm for the Church of Scientology. Its attorneys,
most whom are members of the Church of Scientology.

MR. BERRY: Once again we will lay the foundation later in this

Q.  Would those last two sentences on Paragraph 2, are you saying
that Mr. Ingram was investigating attorney Daniel Leipold?

A.  Yes. I received a phone call initially from Eugene Ingram
telling -- asking me if I received a phone call from the Cult
Awareness Network telling me that through his law enforcement
sources, sources of which he could not reveal to me, he had
learned that the Cult Awareness Network and their attorneys were
seeking to have me thrown in prison for crimes committed against
the Cult Awareness Network.

I knew because of my conversations with Mr. Leipold this was a
lie. That Eugene Ingram was lying to me. And then out of the blue
I get a telephone call from George Robertson asking me how the
deposition went and I had no deposition. No deposition had
occurred at that time. However, I did provide a declaration to
Mr. Leipold, and it scared me because Mr. Leipold told me that he
had told absolutely no one outside his law firm that he had done
the declaration on me, that no one outside his law firm had been
notified that he flew to Portland to meet with me on a
confidential level. And here Eugene Ingram was saying that he
knew everything that was happening, which led me to believe that
they were doing surveillance on me and that some type of fair
game was going on within the church.

And when I denied to George Robertson that I did any type of
deposition, he said -- he made some derogatory comments about the
fact that he knew for a fact I did do a deposition with the Cult
Awareness Network and that I was Lying. And he became derogatory.
But he did admit that Eugene Ingram was investigating me.

Q.  And according to this letter, is it correct that he told you
that Eugene Ingram was investigating the background of Daniel

A.  Yes.

Q.  And at that time was Daniel Leipold an attorney for the Cult
Awareness Network?

A.  Yes, he was.

Q.  And was the Cult Awareness Network, to your knowledge,
engaged in litigation against the Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes, he was.

Q.  And was the Church of Scientology in that litigation
represented by Bowles & Moxon?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And so is it correct then that Eugene Ingram was
investigating Mr. Leipold, the Opposing counsel for Bowles &

A.  Yes.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 91 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 200, in.  16 - p. 203,
in. 17.)

Ingram Threatens Scarff if He Reveals Information About the
Church of Scientology; Family Threatened as Well.

Q.  Tell me about that phone call that you got from Mr. Ingram
that you refer to in this letter.

A.  Again, at this time I was not telling the Church of
Scientology that I had left it because I feared the
repercussions, and Mr. Ingram called me and said that he knew for
a fact that I had contact with the Cult Awareness Network.  That
he had corroborated through his s ources that Leipold had flown
to Portland to interview me. And he demanded to know what
conversations I had with Cynthia Kisser, and he called me a liar
and said that I underestimated his abilities as a private
investigator and he asked me if I can -- if I recall correctly,
how I enjoyed a particular meal at a particular restaurant that I
went to on I believe it was a Tuesday or Thursday night. And from
that I learned from Mr. Ingram that I had been followed and under
surveillance by church members to find out what I was up to.

Q.  Was anyone else, according to your conversation with
Mr. Ingram, under surveillance by Mr. Ingram?

A.  Dan Leipold was also under surveillance.  Mr. Ingram advised
me at that time that he knew how he -- that someone had done a
substantial check with the airlines at the Los Angeles airport
and learned how Mr. Leipold came to Portland, what airline he was
"rubbing" me out.

Q.  Well, when did those other conversations occur with
Mr. Ingram?

A.  I received several phone calls after September 17th in which
he said that he was going to rub me out. That if he couldn't
reach me he would reach my family and kill my parents.

Q.  Do you recall when each of these conversations were?

A.  All I can recall is it happened late September, early
October, and they stopped approximately a week before the
deposition which Mr. Weiner attended.

Q.  Did he call you or did you call him?

A.  No, he called me.

Q.  With regard to -- were there two phone calls or more than

A.  There are two phone calls after this initial phone call.

Q.  Where were you when he made the first phone call to you?

A.  At home.

Q.  And where was that at that time?

A.  Portland.

Q.  And what time was that phone call made to you?

A.  This phone call here?

Q.  No. The second one after that. 'We are talking about three
phone calls altogether?

A.  That's correct.

Q.  And the first phone call is reflected by Exhibit-94?

A.  Correct.

Q.  So where were you when that first phone call was made?

A.  I was in my apartment in Portland, Oregon.

Q.  About what time of the day did you receive that phone call?

A.  This was approximately 4:00 to 4:30 in the afternoon.

Q.  Now the next phone call, approximately when was that?

A.  I recall it being late at night. Around 11:00. Between l0:00
and ll:00, I believe.

Q.  And Mr. Ingram called you?

A.  That's correct. Called me at home.

Q.  And what was said during that conversation by him and by you?

A.  He said that he had substantiated his claims with his law
enforcement sources, that he had sources within the Los Angeles
Police Department that worked for him on numerous occasions, and
that he had confirmed through them that I had in fact struck a
deal with the Cult Awareness Network and that I was blabbing
about my experiences in the Church of Scientology.  And if I said
anything in any type of court hearing detrimental to the Church
of icientology, that he would burn me and that he would burn my
family. And to me that truly epresented a death threat.

Q.  Anything else said in that conversation?

A.  Not that I recall.

Q.  Now, there was a third conversation I think you said with
Mr. Ingram.

A.  That's correct.

Q.  And he once again made the call to you?

A.  He called me at my apartment in Portland, Oregon.  on, what
flight he was on and so on and so forth.

Q.  And so Mr. Ingram told you in this conversation that he had
had Mr. Leipold under surveillance?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And once again Mr. Ingram was working for Bowles as Moxon?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And Mr. Leipold was opposing Bowlers & Moxon in this same

A.  That's correct.

Q.  By 'sarne litigation' I am not referring to this case but
another case.

A.  Yes.

Q.  Now, the next paragraph of that letter refers to -- seems to
be a threat against you.  can you tell me what you meant when you
wrote that and what Mr. Ingram said to you with regard to that,
if anything?

A.  When he told me that I was being followed and that I was a
liar and that he knew all these things were happening, I told him
I was very angry to what I considered to be an invasion of
personal privacy. And he told me that it was his job to protect
his employer, Bowles & Moxon, and the Church of Scientology and
that he would do everything necessary to do that. And that if
they, and I assume when Eugene Ingram says 'they,' that he is
talking about the Church of Scientology and Bowles & Moxon, ever
found out that I had given a deposition against them or if I ever
testified against them, that I would wish I was dead.

Q.  What did you take Mr. Ingram to mean by that statement?

A.  That my life would be in mortal danger if I ever spoke out
about my experiences and told the truth about my experiences in
the Church of Scientology, which is why I asked the
L.A.P.D. officer to be present today during this deposition,
based on comments like this, which were not the first and not the
last comments I received from Mr. Ingram about him

Q.  Approximately when was it? In what period of time in the year
was it?

A.  It was approximately a week before the scheduled deposition.

Q.  Would that be October 26, '92 or thereabouts?

A.  Yes.

Q.  About what time of day was the phone call made?

A.  It was around 8:00, 8:30 in the morning.

Q.  What was said during that conversation?  As best as you can

A.  Something to the effect that he was going to rub me out.

Q.  And what did you understand that phrase to mean?

A.  That he was going to murder me. At which time I hung up on
him and stuck the phone on voice mail.

Q.  And do you consider that to be a threat?

A.  Yes. Definitely. I know he is capable of doing it.

Q.  Do you take that threat seriously?

A.  I did take that threat seriously, and will do everything I
have to to protect myself. I need to take a break, please.

MR. BERRY: Certainly.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 94 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

Q.  Are you ready to proceed?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Exhibit-94 we have just been dealing with.

You also stated in that letter that you suspected your phone was
being tapped; is that correct?

A.  Yes.

Q.  What led you to believe that?

A.  Well, just the fact that Leipold was telling me that he was
being very confidential, very sensitive with the information that
I was giving him, that no one in the Church of Scientology would
have known I was speaking to him whereby the information would
come from him or his office. That there had to be other schemes
at work. And so I suspected the possibility and I write in the
letter, I can't prove it, that my phone is being tapped because
Eugene Ingraun also relayed to me that he knew I was talking to
Father Kent Burtner and I couldn't understand how he would attain
that information.

Q.  Did you have any other basis for believing that Eugene Ingram
or the Scientology organization might tap someone's phone?

A.  I had heard about experiences in the past where the Office of
Special Affairs had been engaged in wire tapping. But they were
just conversations that I had had with people. And there were a
number of phone calls I had with people where there was some very
audible noises, static, clicking going on and hushed voices, very
hushed during conversations I had. So I didn't know whether it
was telephone interference or whether I was being bugged.

Q.  When you had these conversations with people in the past
about Scientology wire tapping, were these conversations with
other members of the Office of Special Affairs?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And did those people indicate that the organization had been
involved in telephone surveillance?

A.  Yes. In fact George Robertson informed me that the phones at
the Sheraton Motel in Oklahoma City, which was the site of the
cult awareness conference in 1991, that they knew exactly what
phone calls Cynthia Kisser, Patricia Ryan and other officials of
the Cult Awareness Network were making out of the hotel. I don't
know whether that was true or not but that was the comment he
made to me.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. [205], in. 20 - p. [215],
in. 5.)

End of Part 1 - through Page 32 of 246 pages of detailed

Al Post? threatens Scarff; Scarff Describes Fair Game Doctrine
and its Current Use.

Q.  Exhibit-97, what is that?

A.  This is a police report which I filed following a death
threat I received on the telephone what would occur if if I flew
to Chicago, because I had already been declared as a state's
witness in this case.  And I received a threatening phone call
from someone saying that if I came to Waukegan to testify that I
would not leave alive.

Q.  And did you have any suspicion as to who made that phone

A.  Yes, I did. But I couldn't prove it so I told the police
officer who I suspected it to be, but that I had no proof.

Q.  And who did you suspect it to be?

THE WITNESS: A gentleman by the name of Al Post, who was a member
of the Christian Fellowship Church

Q.  And was anything else --

A.  Well, only that the police officer that wrote this told me
that because of the numerous reports that he had to file on the
night that he responded to my call that it took him two to three
days after the fact to write this.  And I noticed when I got a
copy of the report that he got a lot of his information
misconstrued because it states on the second page of the police
report that 'I am an ex-Church of Scientology member who was a
witness in a Scientology sex abuse case' and later it says, 'The
Church of Scientology has ties with the' -- wait a second. It
makes references to the fact that the Church of Scientology was
facing trial for sex abuse charges, and again that information
was incorrect.

Q.  And then the last page is a business card of Detective Mark
Bigeagle. What was that about?

A.  This had no relationship to the incident report.

Q.  What did the business card relate to then?

A.  Let me look at the date of this just to make sure. It does
have some relationship. Let me explain. On -- wait a second.

Q.  Did you have another conversation with the Portland police
after this incident report?

A.  This is dated October 24th. Excuse me.

Q.  The incident report was taken by --

A.  I am going to read this first.

Q.  If you look at the bottom, it looks like it was taken by an
Officer Bailey.

A.  I am sorry, my information was incorrect here. The voice on
the phone sounded like At Post because at the time that I was
declared a state's witness in the Waukegan case, I was also
preparing for the October 26th deposition with Dan Leipold in
which Mr. Weiner represented the Church of Scientology. And I
received the death threat on l0/24192.  And it sounded like
Mr. Post, but wasn't sure. I remember questioning why Post would
call me when he has absolutely nothing do with the Church of
Scientology, so I wasn't sure. But the person that told -- that
called me said that You're swimming in dangerous waters, my
friend. Before you give a deposition against Scientology, you
better think how much you value your life, my friend.' I asked
him what that meant.  And he said, How does road kill sound, my
friend?'  The caller then hung up.

I told the officer that it sounded like Al Post.  It was not
Eugene Ingram. I know his voice. It was not Eugene Ingram.  But
this was called in the day before I had the deposition with
Mr. Leipold and Mr. Weiner here.

Q.  And is the Christian Fellowship Church associated with the
Church of Scientology?

A.  At the time that I was involved, it was at one point. They
then broke off relations with the Church of Scientology.

Q.  And when you received this death threat, did you consider it
to be part of any Scientology sponsored policy or doctrine?

A.  Well, I knew for a fact it was part of the Fair Game
Doctrine, yes.

Q.  What do you mean by Fair Game Doctrine?

A.  Fair Game doctrine is a policy which was initially created by
L. Ron Hubbard back in the '60's which is still used today,
although the Church of Scientology and its members deliberately
lie and say it no longer exists. And it is a policy by which
individuals which the Church of Scientology perceives to be its
critics and enemies are intimidated, harassed, threatened and
anything that would cause a person to be silenced.

Not only myself but a number of my friends who are ex- members
and former high-ranking officials of the Church of Scientology
have all been targeted under the Fair Game policy and have been
threatened and one has even been set up in a staged car accident
by the Church of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs.

In the actual policy it states that a target of the Fair Game
policy can be lied to, tricked or destroyed. And destroyed is
very selff elxplanatory. It gives a Scientologist the approval to
murder someone that speaks out or is critical of Scientology.

Q.  Now, the final page of this exhibit is the card of a
Detective Bigeagle, B I G E A G L E.

A.  That's correct. This was not included with the October 24th
police report. Following the termination of the October 26th
deposition which Mr. Weiner says that I was responsible for
despite the evidence and facts at that time, Mr. Leipold and I
visited with a detective of the Portland Police Bureau, Detective
Bigeagle, where we sat down for approximately one and a half
hours and we talked to him about the Church of Scientology and
its insidious nature and the fact that it is not a church, but a
criminal organization, in and out, and we talked about the total
circus that Mr. Weiner was responsible for at the deposition and
how that played into the entire Scientology scheme to suppress me
and other individuals that are critical towards it.  And we asked
for police protection.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 223, in. 14 - p. 229,
in. 4.)

Q.  Mr. Scarff, turning your attention to Exhibit-165, did you
create that document?

A.  I did create this document.

Q.  When did you create it?

A.  I created this document yesterday.

Q.  And did you create it on your own or was anyone present?

A.  No one was present in the room and I created this on my own
and it is a factual documentation of the activities that I have
been involved in and that I have personal knowledge of existing
within the Church of Scientology International by its entities,
Bowles & Moxon and the Office of Special Affairs in Los Angeles
as well as other offices of the Offices of Special Affairs
throughout the country.

Q.  And are you making this list out of your testimony in this

A.  I stipulated that it would be a part of my exhibits, yes.

MR. BERRY: we will come back to this list shortly.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 165 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 289, in. 8 - p.  290,
in. 7.)

Scarff Uses His Access to Law Enforcement Data Systems and
National Crime Information Computer to Run Names of Perceived
Enemies for CSI; Criminal Records Stolen and Destroyed on CSI
Orders; Records First Reviewed by Office Of Special Affairs Gwen

Q.  Mr. Scarff, before we return to the authentication of
documents in this case, I would like to turn back to Exhibit-165
and the list that you prepared. I appreciate that we will deal
with some of these or all of these matters when we get to taking
your testimony as to the events in chronological order. But for
the moment I would like to briefly go through this list and have
you briefly indicate what activities and when constitute each of
the items on the list. Item I on the list is stealing
documents. What do you mean by that statement?

A.  During the time that I was working for the Office of Special
Affairs and even prior to the time I was working for the Office
of Special Affairs through the Mission of Davis, Church of
Scientology in Portland, Oregon I was directed to compromise my
job back in 1982 and in several jobs since that time in stealing
official records which would be beneficial to the Church of

The first date that I can relate to is in 1982 to 1984 when I was
a student employed with Multnomah County Corrections Division in
Portland, Oregon in which I had access to the crime computer that
is used by law enforcement agencies and judicial agencies.

The computer system is referred to as LEDS/NCIC, which stands for
Law Enforcement Data Systems and National Crime Information

And during this time I was directed to run searches on any
criminal records of individuals that were provided to me by the
Church of Scientology on a written list.  And it was my
understanding at the time that these individuals were perceived
as enemies of the Church of Scientology and the church were
interested in knowing what types of information law enforcement
had on each one of these individuals.

I received this information from the computer, made computer
printouts on these individuals which not only included name,
birth date, birth information and criminal information, crimes
which people had been convicted of, but also files entitled
variable records which means any noncriminal conduct whereby this
person has had any conduct -- I am sorry, any contact whatsoever
with any law enforcement entity whether that be the local police,
the FBI, anyone in a law enforcement capacity. And I provided
numerous printouts on numerous individuals for the Church of
Scientology. It is my understanding that these printouts were
mail packed down to CSI in Los Angeles.

At that time in 1982 to '84 I was not aware of what the Guardians
office was or what the Office of Special Affairs was.  I was
simply told that these records made their ways down to Los
Angeles to the mother church.

Q.  And was there a reason why you engaged in this activity?

A.  I was directed to do it.

Q.  And who directed you to do it?

A.  Members of the Church of Scientology, officials working out
of the Mission of Davis.

Q.  Who were those officials?

A.  One official was John Carmichael and this is the person that
I answered to, Elena Arnold and other people that they basically
directed me to speak with that could tell me what records l they
wanted, but names that I just don't recall.  It has been over 11
years now. l

Q.  Was John Carmichael your terminal at the time? l

A.  Yes, he was. l

Q.  And what were the official capacities of Carmichael and Elena
at the Office of Special l Affairs in Portland at that time?

A.  I can only tell you what they told me. John Carmichael told
me that he was in charge of all public affairs with regards to
the church media relations. Anything that involved the church and
its public image.  Elena Arnold was a recruiter, a registrar with
the church, a course registrar, and it was my understanding that
Elena was in charge of recruiting people for the introductory
courses of Scientology and in charge of utilizing the staff and
helping the staff to sell the courses and the services of the
Church of Scientology through the Mission of Davis.

Q.  And how did you come to get involved in this activity on
behalf of the church?

A.  I was directed to do so. They knew that I was working with
Multnomah County in a capacity of an office clerk and I was
working -- and that I had access to computers.

Several times when I went to the Mission of Davis I talked about
how much I enjoyed my work, because at that time I was working in
the capacity with corrections officers in an office called
Pre-Trial Release which is also referred to as Recognizance in
some cities.

And my job required me to interview inmates that could be trusted
to be released in lieu of bail on recognizance and part of my job
required me to run search records on these individuals to make
sure there was no outstanding warrants on these individuals in
either Oregon or other states, because if a warrant did exist
then they would not be released, of course.

And I told people through my counselors, just people that I met
at the Mission of Davis, that I really enjoyed my job because not
only was it so technical but because I got to talk to inmates and
I felt I was making a positive impact in helping inmates.

And it came to me in at least two conversations that I could
really help the Church of Scientology out, but they weren't
specific as to why they wanted the records or what they were
going to do with them. So I simply did it.

In the Church of Scientology when someone gives you a direct
order you do not disobey it or you are punished.

Q.  What form can that punishment take?

A.  It is referred to as the RPF, the Rehabilitation Project
Force. And you're basically reduced to a slave laborer in various
activities that they deem that you should do, whether it is
cleaning toilets.

They brand you.  You are required to wear a maintenance uniform,
a blue maintenance uniform which marks you as an RPF
individual. You are put on a very poor diet. At that time it was
rice beans and water.  They mistreat you. It is just a very
punishing activity. And anyone that is on RPF knows they are
being punished.

Although the Church of Scientology would like you to believe,
like in the military, it is simply a means of constructive
rehabilitation or a constructive discipline. But it in fact is
punishment. And I don't know of any person that has ever been on
RPF that said it was a positive and an enlightening experience.
And I know of individuals who have when on RPF that have said
they still shudder from the experiences they had on RPF. It still
bothers them.

Q.  What is your understanding as to whether RPF is a voluntary
or unvoluntary exercise?

A.  It is like I would just compare it to the U.S. Marine
Corps. If a marine officer gives you a direct order and you tell
him to fuck off, you know what the punishment is going to be.

That is the same thing with the RPF.  If you do not submit to RPF
as you are ordered to do there is further and more drastic
punishment rendered against you. It is a very involuntary --I
don't know anyone who has ever volunteered for RPF. If you talk
to anyone in the Church of Scientology about RPF you will never
hear anyone say they look forward to attending RPF. It is just
not said.

Q.  In 1982 when you were engaged in the LEDS NCIC activity, were
you aware of the existence of RPF?

A.  Yes, I was.

Q.  Now, the second item, and I will come back when we deal
chronologically to your testimony to some of this material, but
the second item on your list is stealing court records.

A.  Yes.

Q.  What did you mean by that statement?

A.  In 1991 and early last year, 1992, I was assigned an
operation to go into the Multnomah County courthouse which I was
advised by David Butterworth, the director of the Office of
Special Affairs here in Los Angeles, was a nationwide effort by
Scientology entities to remove all court files that related to
any type of Scientology litigation.  Anything that was accessible
to the public.

I was instructed to go into the Multnomah County courthouse, pull
anything that were in the files, anything that I could get on
microfiche and walk out of the courthouse with the records and
destroy them so there was no record at the courthouse of
Scientology based litigation.

There were two files, two cases that I specifically rememoer that
I destroyed, although I don't recall the specific names, only the
cases. One dealt with a young man who died while undergoing an
exercise within the Church of Scientology and that the parents of
this individual sued the Church of Scientology for this death
which they considered to be unresponsible or
irresponsible. Another case that I destroyed dealt with two
members of the Church of Scientology that left and then filed
suit against the Church of Scientology as disciplining a member
being called the western division. And that these individuals
sought a full refund for the money they spent in the Church of
Scientology and how Scientology reacted to their lawsuit. There
was also records referring a gentleman who had been deprogrammed
by the name of Jim Boland and one of the private investigators
for the Church of Scientology by the name of John Gaw had come to
Portland and gotten his declaration which the church intended to
use as a means to incriminate the Cult Awareness Network.

And I stole all of the records pertaining to Jim Boland
reflective of the case in which he was the victim of sex abuse by
his parish priest, the parish priest bing Fr. Thomas Laughlin,
and now all records pertaining to Thomas Laughlin are no longer
at the courthouse.

Prior to these records being destroyed they were reviewed by the
Church of Scientology and I don't -- I left them at the church.
I don't know what they did with them, but they were eventually
turned to me and I destroyed them. Why they did it that way, I
don't know. Why they didn't destroy them themselves, I don't

Q.  Who, if anyone, did you give them to at the church?

A.  Gwen Mayfield, who is the director of the Office of Special
Affairs. Also Angie Mann, who is her assistant.

Q.  When did you give these documents to Gwen and Angie?

A.  This would occur between November of '91 and the spring of

Q.  And were these documents just the ones relating to Jim Boland
or were they relating to the other several files that you spoke

A.  Anything that I could get from the courthouse dealing with
the Church of Scientology. Anything. There were some documents I
could not retrieve because they were in the archives and there
were some on microfilm and microfiche that I could not retrieve.

Q.  So on how many occasions did you go to the courthouse to
retrieve documents? l

A.  Approximately at least five times. I would say five to six

Q.  After each occasion would the documents that you retrieved
then be given to either Gwen l or Angie? l

A.  I was specifically told to stick them in a brown envelope,
seal the envelope, tape the envelope and then write on their
OSAGM, for eyes only, which is a Scientology term meaning
confidential. For eye's only. They know when there is a document
that says eye's only that a receptionist is not entitled to open
it up and see that it is regular mail.

Q.  What does the phrase wOSAGM mean?

A.  OSA, when I put it on the envelope?

Q.  Yes.

A.  OSA is Office of Special Affairs. GM is the initials for Gwen
Mayfield. I would write on the envelope OSA or OSA: Gwen

Q.  Who told you to do this?

A.  Gwen Mayfield, David Butterworth, Eugene Ingram.

Q.  Can you tell me when as accurately as you can you received
instructions to engage in this activity by David Butterworth,
Gene Ingram and Gwen Mayfield? Let's start with David

A.  I can't give you specific dates because this was an everyday
operation within the Church of Scientology. This was not one
specific operation. It was always ongoing. Whenever I had a time
to do it, it was something I did on a routine basis. When you
work within the OSA and you do any type of project for the OSA it
becomes ingrained in your psyche that it is something that has to
be done on a daily basis. It is like a daily routing out of the
negative. And it was recently following my providing declarations
to Eugene Ingram that Eugene Ingram told me that for me to escape
any type of civil or criminal liability that Bowles & Moxon had
planned to bring upon me, that he advised me that if I did not
follow his directives and the directives of David Butterworth as
they gave them to me, then there would be punishment. And it was
simply after that that I starting doing these things at their

(Deposition of Gerry L. Scarff, at p. 291, in. 14 - p. 303,
in. 3.)

Operation Snow White.

Q.  Have you ever heard of a Scientology operation known as
Operation Snow White?

A.  I ever heard of it, yes.

Q.  Did you have any understanding as to whether this was part of
Operation Snow White?

A.  It is my understanding that Operation Snow White occurred
back in the time when the 11 members of the Church of Scientology
were arrested and convicted on federal crimes and sent to
prison. I dont recall hearing this operation as being referred to
as Snow White, no

(Deposition of Garry Scarff, at p 303, lns 4-14)

Operation Against CAN Described.

Q.  Going back to receiving instructions to engage in this
activity, I would like you to try and recall the various
instructions you received from David Butterworth, what you recall
what was said in the conversations.

A.  I am sorry. Say that again. If you are asking me to repeat
every conversation with David Butterworth, I can't do that
because if you look at my telephone bills, I was talking to David
Butterworth approximately 100, 150 times a month on a twice or
more daily basis. I am sorry. I am not that smart. H

Q.  What I would like you to try to remember is any conversations
in which David Butterworth gave you instructions to pull
particular court files.

A.  There was a discussion that David Butterworth had -- he
called me and he told me that they wanted to retrieve Jim
Boland's declaration SO they can use that to prove that there was
a strong connection between the Cult Awareness Network and
involuntary deprogramming because the Church of Scientology has
long said that the Cult Awareness Network is a hate organization
and that they coordinate deprogramming although the Cult
Awareness does not do that.

And they felt like in Jim Boland's declaration that it would be
the proof to show that because Anne Greek was at that time a
Vice-President of the Cult Awareness Network, and that Anne Greek
was involved in this deprogramming that it would show the direct
connection between the Cult Awareness Network and unlawful
deprogramming. And I was told to pull every record I could find
on the sex abuse incident concerning Mr. Boland, because
Mr. Boland has stated in his declaration that Anne Greek was one
of his counselors following the sex abuse by this priest. And she
also acted in the capacity of a counselor to him when the parents
became disturbed over his behaviors following his joining a
fundamentalist Christian church. And in my declaration that I
provided for the Church of Scientology we, in the OSA wanted to
provide the distorted and misrepresented viewpoint that the only
reason Anne Greek had detained Mr. Boland unlawfully and had him
deprogrammed was to force him to become a Catholic again. And
that there was no integrity in this deprogramming whatsoever. And
we wanted to give the distorted impression that this
deprogramming was simply another incidence of abuse perpetuated
against an innocent individual and that the unlawful
deprogramming had no integrity in it thereby incriminating not
only Anne Greek but the Cult Awareness Network.

Q.  When you say 'we' to whom did you refer?

A.  I am referring to Eugene Ingram who stated numerous times
both verbally and on record as reflected in numerous letters that
he sent to law enforcement and judicial agencies that I was a
witness or a, quote, 'legal witness' for him.  David Butterworth,
who was my terminal who I answered to, and Gwen Mayfield, whom
Mr. Butterworth told me I needed to work with on local issues,
because Gwen Mayfield was the director of special affairs for the
Portland entity of the church.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 303, in. 15 - p. 306,
in. 8.)

Stolen Criminal Documents to be Used to Get Cynthia Kisser and
Anne Greek Arrested

Q.  Now, can you recall any conversations with Gene Ingram
relating to the destruction of court documents which you have
just been referring to?

A.  Only with regards to Jim Boland's case. And that we would be
able to use these documents to get Cynthia Kisser arrested and
Anne Greek arrested for their activities.

Q.  Do you recall when that conversation took place
approximately? Let's start with the year.

A.  I want to say the spring of '92. It occurred within a week
prior to John Gaw coming to Portland.

Q.  Do you mean '93 or '92?

A.  '92. I am sorry.

Q.  Because you had already left --

A.  That's right. I left in September of 1992. I would have to
look at Jim Boland's declaration and see when he signed it but it
occurred like within two weeks of him signing this
declaration. Because I had been told at the time by both
Mr. Ingram and Mr. Butterworth that there was not any money
available for anyone from the church in Los Angeles to fly to
Portland to get Mr. Boland's declaration.

And why they chose to lie to me, I don't know. But I found out
later from Gwen Mayfield at the time when I was still asking
Mr. Ingram when he was coming up to get Mr. Boland's declaration
that in fact Mr. Gaw had already gotten his declaration and then
they sent me a copy of the declaration. And when I called David
Butterworth and asked him why he saw it necessary to lie to me
and tell me that it wasn't taking place, he told me that I would
be d istracted too much from doing the operations that they felt
were more important. And I needed to focus on doing those cycles
and getting those out of the way before I take on something else.

Q.  And the exhibits you are referring to, the declarations of
Jim Boland, are they Exhibits-68 and 69?

A.  There are actually three declarations. One is my declaration.
Another is Jim Boland's declaration and Jim Boland provided a
third one in which he disputes certain things in my
declaration. What number was that?

Q.  Exhibit-68 and 69 have been previously identified as d
eclarations given by Jim Boland and they both appear to have been
-- well, turning to 68 and 69, on both of those declarations is
there anything that refreshes your recollection as to when
conversations with Eugene Ingram that you referred to might have

Q.  And what is the date of the declarations of Boland that you
were referring to?

A.  The Boland -- both declarations are signed April 12th, 1992
in if State of Oregon.

Q.  You also refer to a declaration given by you.

A.  That's correct.

Q.  Is that part of this record?

A.  Yes. It is Exhibit-No. 67. And it is dated April 7th of 1992.

Q.  Would that have been in the spring of 1992?

A.  Right -- well, I am sorry. It says spring of '93.  That's
when I seem to remember this event occurred.

Q.  You testified that you thought the conversation with Ingram
took place in the spring of 1992. Are these declarations to which
have been referring around the time of spring 1992?

A.  Yes. April of 1992. I assume the spring.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 306, in. 9 - p. 309,
in. 12.)

Gwen Mavfield, Director of Special Affairs for the Mission of
Davis in Portland, Directs Scarff to go to Courthouse and Steal
Court Documents.

Q.  Now, referring to Gwen Mayfield, do you recall any
conversations which you had with her regarding the activity that
you testified to in relation to the destruction of court

A.  I was speaking with Gwen practically on an everyday basis.
Could you be more specific.

Q.  Do you recall any specific conversations you had in which she
may have told you to go to the courthouse and steal court
records? If there is a number which all merge together, perhaps
you could summarize that number.

A.  Like I said before, there were numerous conversations between
me and all parties that I have mentioned on record already. I do
recall her at one time challenging some of the information in the
records, if that's what you are looking for, where she said that
the judges in the cases were biased and that the people who filed
these lawsuits were nuts and that anything that's not valid
should not even belong in the Court record and so it was
necessary to get rid of that information.  But I don't -- and I
would say that was around the spring time of 1992 too. It was
during the time that I was actively involved in a Scientology
letter writing campaign to various people and there was a lot
going on at that time which has been documented in the exhibits.

Q.  As a result of her saying the information needed to be gotten
rid of, or words to that effect, do you perceive that you
received certain instructions from her?

A.  Yes. It was different. Because Gwen Mayfield talked on a
daily basis with David Butterworth. Gwen Mayfield had a twofold
job. Actually a threefold job. she was not only the Director of
Special Affairs for the Mission of Davis in Portland, she also
was in charge of some financial affairs within the Mission of
Davis. She was in charge of Workers' Compensation. She was in
charge of payroll, if that's what you want to call it.

And she had other matters. And she often was under strain and
stress within the Church of Scientology because she had all this
time that needed to be devoted to her local duties but she was
also receiving directives from David Butterworth in Los Angeles
often in the form of a fax. And I was getting phone calls on a
daily basis from Gwen Mayfield. 'Can you come down here or if you
can't we will send a messenger to your home because there is a
fax here "For Eyes Only" from David Butterworth and he was
sending directives.'  There were several occasions in which I had
to call Mr. Butterworth and inform him that I was not getting the
cooperation that I needed from Ms. Mayfield or Mrs.  Mann and it
became apparent several hours later after I complained that they
got the message back from Mr. Butterworth because of the hostile
responses I received from them. wSo I don't mean to get off the
record here, but there were numerous conversations with
Gwen. There were numerous faxes coming to me that were being
messengered or couriered to my home. I was making a lot of visits
to COSMOD, particularly during the nighttime after spending the
day at the Mission. I had to go home and come back and pick up
faxes. And there was a coffee shop next door that Gwen Mayfield
and I made quite a bit of use out of for our private

This mostly occurred within between the months of January and
July of '92.

(Deposition of Gaerry L. Scarff, at p. 309, ln.13 - p. 312, ln

David Butterworth and Eugene Ingrain Instruct Scarff to Steal
Court Documents; Ingram Threatens Scarfs if He Does Not Complv.

Q.  And what was your reason for carrying out the instructions of
David Butterworth, Eugene Ingram and Gwen Mayfield with regard to
this activity, the activities of stealing court records?

A.  You're talking about what dates?

Q.  No. I am talking about why you followed those instructions.

A.  Because following the meeting that I received from Eugene
Ingram in October of 1991 where he visited me without notice, he
pushed his way into my apartment and he told me in very specific
terms that if I did not cooperate fully with him and with the
Church of Scientology, particularly the Office of Special
Affairs, that Bowles & Moxon was prepared to send me to prison
and they would also take civil actions against me and it was the
duress and the threats and the combination of both that initially
made me decide to cooperate with them.

And it was later through some intimate conversations I had with
Mr. Butterworth in Oklahoma City during the CAN Conference that I
chose to simply surrender my life to Scientology and I was
willing to do anything that they directed me to do, not only in
fear of going to prison but the fear of being sued by Bowles &
Moxon because I know of the past and I know of the reputation of
Bowles & Moxon, on behalf of Scientology with going after people
they perceive to be their enemies and I knew that they were in a
position to destroy me financially and to make my life a living

One of the phrases that you hear quite a bit within the Church of
Scientology is that we are going to make people go insane.  And I
knew that they could do that simply through the tactics that they
use, which in part have been evidenced during this
deposition. And I felt that I had no recourse but to cooperate
fully and then as I became more intimate as a friend with
Mr. Butterworth, Mr. Butterworth said he really cared about me as
an individual, I was duped. I really believed that
Mr. Butterworth cared for me. I met with him in Oklahoma City in
November of 1991 during the disruption campaign against the Cult
Awareness Network conference and I specifically asked him at one
time what do I needed to do in order to receive the full
forgiveness of the Church of Scientology.

And he said if L. Ron Hubbard was alive today he would be very
happy to have me by his side because I was meeting the conditions
necessary to amend the incidents of my past and that if I
continued to do as I was told, then everything would be okay.

Q.  During your declaration under oath you gave lengthy testimony
about this meeting with Eugene Ingram.  Do you still stand by
that testimony?

A.  You are talking about both at the Red Lion in Portland, his
creation of phony documents?

Q.  Yes.

A.  His telling me -- in fact after an argument with his telling
me that because this declaration which was created was being s
igned by a notary public, which was not a court officer, and
therefore, would not be perceived or authenticated as sworn
testimony, that by signing this declaration under, quote, penalty
of penury unquote, was basically null and void because it was
being witnessed by a nonjudicial officer and I was not sworn
prior to making this declaration.

That it was simply part of the game that Scientology was willing
to play against the Cult Awareness Network.  Yes, I stand fully
by that. I was misled. I was duped.  Eugene Ingram lied to me.

I found out after the fact that any document I signed under
Penalty of perjury is a legal document that can be used against
me and I was told otherwise by Eugene Ingram who represented
himself to me as a former long time Los Angeles police officer
who was honorably discharged from the LAPX and a private
investigator for the Church of Scientology.

I also found out that the comments made to me by Mr. Ingram about
his, quote, honorable discharge from the Los Angeles Police
Department were also a lie. That Mr. Ingram has a very corrupt
and dishonorable record with the Los Angeles Police Department.

Q.  Was it about this time that you also received a letter from
Bowles & Moxon identifying Mr. Ingram as an investigator for
Bowles & Moxon?

A.  Yes, it is. And just prior to that, receiving that letter and
the reason that letter came to me is Eugene tried to convince me
that I could trust him and I had some reservations about whether
I could trust somebody who, one, visits me unannounced, two,
pushes his way into my apartment; three, when I told him that I
had to go to work he didn't care. He simply felt that the
information was necessary at that time to talk with him about
this case.

Four, when I told him that I was going to go to work at this
hotel and that I would meet with him once I got off work and even
offered to speak with him after I got off work about midnight,
that Mr. Ingram chose to check into the motel where I was

Five, he came out into the work area where I came in after a
run. I was a shuttle van driver, and proceeded to stepping onto
my van and stayed in the van during the entire shift that I was
working despite the numerous guests that were inside the van
which caused the security office and my boss to question who this
man was and what he was doing in the van.

And six, Mr. Ingram told me that he had received approval from
the manager of the hotel to accompany me during my entire work
shift. And according to my manager at the tirne, Brian Huitt,
that was not the case. That Mr. Ingram never approached the
manager. It turned out to be another lie that Mr. Ingram
perpetuated so to harass me on the job.

Q.  Turning your attention to what has been previously marked as
Exhibit-30 in this deposition, a one-page letter from Bowles &
Moxon to you dated October 4, 1991 signed by Tim Bowles, is that
the letter to which you just referred?

A.  Yes. Again just prior to this letter Mr. Ingram tried not to
provide me this letter. He said, 'You can trust me. All you have
to do is look at the Time Magazine article dated May 6th of 1991
which provides a negative view of Scientology.' And he said
within this article there was a side bar which refers to him. And
he said, 'This will prove to you if, in fact, you believe what
Time Magazine is relaying to its readers that I am who I say I

And I said, 'That's not good enough. You are threatening to throw
me in prison.  You are threatening to sue nce and I am not going
to cooperate if I don't have some type of immunity

Q.  And--

A.  And Mr. Ingram said, 'Fine, I will get a letter from Bowles &

And then he came up with this letter and I said, 'Well, I can't
sign or I cannot agree to this letter because you have noted in
the letter that this is a lawful background investigation when in
fact you are perpetuating this, what I call fraud.'

And he said, 'Don't worry about it. It is just for the benefit of
the people from the Cult

Description of Ingram Connections Within the Los Angeles Police
Department and FBI, and that These Connections Will be Used to
Trump up Charges on Scarff if he Does Not Comply.

Q.  You referred to Ingram threatening to have you thrown into

A.  That's correct.

Q.  Did you have an understanding as to how he was going to
achieve that?

A.  He told me several things. One, he spoke of his honorable
standing within the Los Angeles Police Department, that he had a
lot of persons that he counted on to assist him in his work which
were Los Angeles police officers, FBI and that he had this whole
cadre of law enforcement people behind him, and that if not in a
legitimate manner, that he would be able to trump up charges
against me which would result in my arrest, conviction and
imprisonment because I would have absolutely no one to back me up
or to support me and that I knew better than to cross him. eAnd
given what I knew about the church and particularly how it came
down on Julie Christofferson in 1985 and '79, I knew what he was
telling me was correct.

Q.  And what about your previous activity with regard to the LEDS
NCIC computer, was Ingram aware of that?

A.  Very much so.  In fact he told me that he had everything on
me.  He had all my PC folders. He had everything that I have told
anybody in a confidential manner dating back to 1976, when I
first met up with Scientology.  He even asked me 'Do you recall a
conversation that you had with a waitress in 1976?'  And I said,

And he said, "Do you recall the Italian restaurant the very first
job you had when you came to Oregon?"

And I said, 'Yes, it was an Italian restaurant and I was a
busboy, but I don't recall any type of conversation with the
waitress.'  then said, 'Well, you had a conversation with the
waitress whereby someone provided you a pamphlet on the street
and you were talking about some negative information you had
heard about the church on the pamphlet which turned out to be the
Church of Scientology.' The waitress turned out to be a
Scientologist and she filed a knowledge report on me about some
comments that I made with regard to that pamphlet.

And he that knowledge report he had it in his file and that my
file read like an encyclopedia.  And that he had every
confidential report on me including the numerous conversations I
had with the counselor who told me at the time that it was
covered by the Privacy Act and it was confidential regarding
things that happened in my past which I was embarrassed about.

Q.  Was this a counselor with the Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes. This is someone that I trusted to be a counselor that
could help me that guaranteed me that anything that I told her
would be held confidential and not go beyond her office.

Q.  Do you recall who she was?

A.  I don't recall the name of the specific person I spoke to,

Q.  Did you are you familiar with a phrase "auditing"?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Were the counseling sessions anything to do with auditing?

A.  No. Not initially The initial counseling I had was simply to
guide me in what courses would help me out initially. And one was
a communications course that I had taken and then later it got
into auditing.

Q.  And we will deal with this later.

A.  Which were a series of exercises. It wasn't really
counseling. It was exercises that they said would help me to
become clear.

Q.  Is "clear" a Scientology term?

A.  Yes. It means that you are free of your reactive mind.

Q.  What is a reactive mind?

A.  In the Church of Scientology philosophy you have what is
considered the analytical mind which is an ability to confront
your tensions, your problems and to deal with it from a very
strong healthy standpoint. And simply deal with those problems as
they come.  A reactive mind within the Church of Scientology is
that instance when your mind reacts or restimulates itself to
something that happened in the past.  For example, if I had a car
accident, my mind acts like a camera and it takes a picture of
that car accident and it forms a number of mental images within
my mind and it is buried within my subconscious. wAnd if I was
ever to walk across the street and saw a car dodging toward me
and I reacted and suffered from that experience emotionally, that
acted as a restimulation to my reactive mind. I was reacting to
that incident.  And they told me that because of this reactive
mind that I needed to be cleared of those engrams that were
causing all those things to happen, that I needed to be free of
those engrams or I would never be cleared to the point where I
could function healthily and exist in life in a very healthy

Q.  Did some of this activity take place within the auditing

A.  Yes. I recall a specific exercise where I had told them I
attended a show or I was -- it was going back to the time that I
was in the service and that I had attended a USO show and there
was a snake handler there and he had a bull snake in his hand and
how much I freaked out at seeing the sight of a snake because
when I lived in Florida I had been bitten by a rattlesnake. And I
remember the experience and every time I saw a snake it freaked
me out.

I also recall telling this auditor how any time I saw a snake
shed its skin it had such a negative impact on me that I would
not eat bread for years because I saw bread as the skin of a
snake. I made that mental connection.  And how I freaked out
every time I saw a snake.  And they told me that auditing would
be able to help me route out that negative reaction that I was
carrying around with me and would bring me to a point where I
could pick up a snake and kiss it and hold it and fondle it and
it would have no impact on me whatsoever.

Q.  And was the information imparted by you during auditing
sessions private or public information?

A.  I was told it was private.  That was between me and my

Q.  Did you ever give any information to auditors regarding a
very personal past experiences?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And when you had this conversation in Portland in or around
October 4, 1991 with Gene Ingram was it your impression that he
knew of any of these records?

A.  He definitely knew because he told me that he wanted to take
some of those experiences and utilize them to benefit some covert
operations that they wanted to use to incriminate in l particular
one attorney by the name of Ford Greene.

Q.  We will get to that later, but did he refer to any other past
experiences of yours dunng l those meetings? l

A.  Yes.

Q.  Can you indicates what they were?

A.  He knew about the long-term estrangement that I had with my
mother He knew about my past homosexual activities and port

Q.  And were all these things part of what you thought were your
confidential PC file?

A.  I didn't think -- they guaranteed me it was confidential and
would never be used against me.

Q.  Did you feel they were being used against you in October 4,
1991 but Eugene Ingram?

A.  The way he flaunted it and said he knew all these things and
had all these records and files on me read like an encyclopedi

A.  It was very apparent to me by Mr. Ingram that he was prepared
to lay them out on the table and talk about them and expose them
if I did not cooperate.

Q.  And was anything said regarding the LEDS/NCIC work that you
had done for the Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes.

Q.  By Mr. Ingram?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what do you recall him saying regarding that?

A.  He told me that it was a felony crime and that he could take
that incident and use it against me because he said that versus
in a state court when you commit a crime there is a statute of
limitations.  In a federal court there is no statute of
limitations and I could still be arrested and held responsible
for doing that and they could make it look like that I was solely
accountable for that incident and that it could be used against
me and I would have absolutely no recourse.

Again he mentioned the fact that he had worked in the LAPD. That
he had had a great, personal relationship with Daryl Gates, who
was the Chief of Police, and that he had very --he had friends
that were very high up in the organization and that he could make
charges against me stick. And so he made it very clear to me at
that time that I would be incredibly stupid to challenge him.

Q.  Was it after those conversations with Gene Ingram that he
gave you instructions to engage in the stealing of court

A.  Yes. This occurred approximately November because at that
time when I saw him in Portland, his primary interest was in
creating these declarations and getting them off because he said
that once these declarations were created and approved by Bowles
& Moxon that he was going to duplicate them and send them
immediately tovarious sources throughout the country, and I
learned from Mr. Butterworth in fact that following my signing of
the declarations that they duplicated -- according to
Mr. Butterworth, 500 plus copies were d uplicated and sent to
every organization and entity within the Church of Scientology on
their list, whatever their list was. And that people throughout
the country had copies of my declaration.

(Deposition of Garry L.  Scarff, at p. 319, in. 8 - p. 328,
in. 11.)

Ingram's Instructions to Steal Given After Threats of Possible
Criminal Charges Against Scarff.

Q.  We will go back to that later in the deposition when we deal
chronologically with these documents.  What I am trying to drive
at is you testified earlier that Mr. Ingram gave you
instructions, was one of the three people who gave you
instructions to steal court records. Were the instructions from
Mr. Ingram in that regard subsequent to these conversations
involving threats that you have just been telling us about?

A.  When you say subsequent --

Q.  Were the instructions from Mr. Ingram to steal court
documents given to you after October and November of 1991?

A.  Yes, it was afterwards.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, p. 328, Ins. 12- 25.)

Scarff Directed to Use Law Enforcement Computer Network to
Retreive Information About Julie Cristofferson, Her Mother, and
Her Attorneys to be Used Against Cristofferson: Cristofferson
Sued CSI in 1979.

MR. BERRY: Now, referring back to the LEDS NCIC computer activity
for a moment, I would like you to briefly turn your attention to
what will be marked as Exhibit-125 in your folder before you.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 125 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)

THE WITNESS: I have seen this document


Q.  What is Exhibit-125?

A.  This is a document that was prepared by what then was
referred to as the Guardians Office which is now referred to as
the Office of Special Affairs, and it is an intelligence document
because the Office of Special Affairs despite what they would
like you to believe on a public level is actually the
intelligence division for the Church of Scientology. This is a,
what they refer to as a confidential for eyes only intelligence
document. And it is titled "Julie's Background".  And it --

Q.  Who is Julie?

A.  They are referring to Julie Cristofferson-Titchbome, who had
sued the church in 1979 and the trial -- who had a trial with the
Church of Scientology in 1979 and 1985. And this is an
intelligence document which refers in the document to a major
target where they were wanting to dredge up any data on Julie's
criminal background, any type of drug arrest, anything that the
church might be able to utilize and turn against her in an
offensive manner.

Q.  Now, we will discuss this document in greater depth later in
the deposition, hut for the moment if you would turn your
attention to what is labeled at the top AB-104 and turn your
attention to Paragraph 9, or the paragraph numbered 9 and Item
E. Does that say and what is it about?

A.  It refers to gaining access to the arrest records of Julie.

Q.  Do you recall ever having any involvement in that sort of

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what was that involvement?

A.  I recall being told to get LEAS NCIC infommation on not only
Julie Christofferson but to do a what they refer to as a state
check on Elma Hall, who at that time was living in Montanna,
which is Miss Christofferson's mother, to get criminal printouts
or anything that I could gain on an attorney by the name of Don
Andrews, Attorney John Powers, Attorney Gary McMurray, Attorney
Ron Wade. And I am trying to recall other individuals, but those
are the ones that I do rernember.

Q.  Who are these attorneys that you are obtaining information

A.  John Powers, Gary McMurray and Ron Wade were the attorneys
representing Julie Christofferson in this civil action against
the Church of Scientology.

Q.  So were they what we might call opposing counsel to the
Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 329. ln. 1 - p. 331. ln

Books Critical of Scientology Stolen and Destroyed.

Q.  Mr. Scarff, have you now located the two exhibits that you
had tried to locate with reference to stealing library records?

A.  Yes, sir, I did.

Q.  Turning your attention to Exhibit-99, what is that?

A.  This is a letter that I sent to Ginnie Cooper, the Director
of Libraries for Multnomah County, which is the county where
Portland, Oregon rests.  And it is concerning an operation in
which I was a part of a -- part of which has been a long time
policy within the Church of Scientology to eradicate not only
from what I have spoken to already on court files but eradicating
from library systems throughout the country, any information that
is critical or adverse to the Church of Scientology.

And specifically within the library systems within the City of
Portland, Oregon, I as well as other individuals within the
Church of Scientology just as a matter of policy were ordered to
destroy any and all critical materials adverse to the Church of
Scientology.  And this letter is to the Director of Libraries
informing her that all of such books that are on file at the
library which have been listed as "lost" are not lost. They had
been destroyed.  And I list six books there.

Specifically one book refers to -- entitled "A Piece of Blue Sky"
by Jon Atack, who is a former high ranking member of the Church
of Scientology who wrote an expose on Scientology.

And I recall there were approximately four to five copies of this
book in the library all which were listed as lost. And this
letter explains to Ms. Cooper, basically, that the Church of
Scientology destroys materials on a regular basis which they
consider to be adverse, including if she were to check the
library's copy of Time Magazine dated May 6th of l991 they will
notice that that article had been cut from the magazine because
the Church of Scientology considered it to be adverse.

Exhibit-100 is a response to me from this library director in
which she did a full inventory of the books that they had and
claims that several of the books appear to be out of print now
and the library currently has no copies. I refer to one, the book
entitled "Inside Scientology" by Robert Kaufman. She said the
library has no copies.

No. 2, "The Scandal of Scientology" by Paulette Cooper. She
responds the library currently has no copies.

No. 3, "The Hidden Story of Scientology", by Omar Garrison. She
responds there are two copies in the library and there are no
copies at the central library.  And it is out of print.

No. 4, book entitled L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Mad Man" by Bent
Corydon. She responds there are supposed to be currently 13
copies in the library.  However, seven of these copies are
currently listed as lost and there are two copies on order to
replace the two copies lost at the central library.

No. 5, book entitled "Bare-Faced Messiah: The True Story of
L. Ron Hubbard" by Russell Miller. "She responds there are
supposed to be four copies in the county library, two of the four
copies are listed as lost. And the book is out of print.

No. 6. "A Piece of Blue Sky", she responds there are supposed to
be three copies in the county library, two of these three are
currently listed as lost.

She refers to the Time magazine article dated May 6th of 1991 and
claims that the article is on microfilm and therefore the issue
can be found in microfilm, but the print copy is missing. She
also states that she instituted safeguards to protect reordenng
these books based upon the letter that I sent her.

Q.  Now, turning your attention to Exhibit-99, the last paragraph
on that document, that letter states: 'These missing books were
in fact stolen from the library and destroyed in fulfillment of
an internal directive by the church which instructs its members
to eradicate all published materials critical of Scientology and
to replace it with pro-Scientology materials.'

A.  That's correct.

Q.  How do you know that these missing books were in fact stolen
from the library?

A.  Because I was very much a part of the effort to steal the
books from the library and destroy them.

Q.  Was anyone else involved in that effort?

A.  Gwen Mayfield was involved. Angie Mann was involved. I know
that her husband Charles Mann to have been involved. Like I said,
this was an effort that Scientology has long had. I even recall
back in '82 that John Carmichael had talked about removing stuff
from the library and destroying it. And it was Gwen Mayfield who
told me how to remove a book from the library. She showed me that
within the binding of a hardback book there is a long, thin,
metal strip which sets off an alarm when something like that goes
through the sensors in the library and she said all you had to do
was take a razor blade, slice along the bindings of the book,
pull out the metal strip, rub it into a little ball and flick it
away. It takes away the security aspect of this book. It was very
easy to get away with it by ripping out the little metal band.

Q.  Gwen Mayfield is part of the --

A.  Gwen Mayfield is an official of the Church of Scientology and
director of the Office of Special Affairs whose job in part is to
do such activities as I have just described. This would be
considered a covert operation.

This is not the first time this has happened although not in a
library situation. When Julie Christofferson had her trial in
Portland in 1985 one newspaper by the name of Willemette Week
published an expose of the Church of Scientology in which the
newspaper later learned that approximately, I think the number
was, 10,000 copies of the newspaper had been stolen from
different places throughout the city because of the desire from
the Church or officials of the church not to have any of the
readership within the general public to have access to these

And it is my understanding that the newspaper later sued the
church and the church chose to end and settle the case.

Q.  How do you know about that activity?

A.  It was common knowledge within the church.  It was common
knowledge in the church at the time because I was involved in one
other operation with John Carmichael at that time against Julie
Christofferson and you have to understand that within the OSA and
any time someone succeeds in pulling off a covert operation,
people don't sit around a table and talk seriously about what
just happened. It is a celebrative occasion. It is like somebody
needs to pull out the wine and cheese and we Will all celebrate
because everyone was laughing and John Carmichael thought it was
quite comical that people would try to look for a copy of the
Willemette Week and there would be none found anywhere within the

Q.  Were you involved in the removal of those newspapers?

A.  Yes.

Q.  In what manner were you involved?

A.  I would go to 7-Elevens where at that time I believe they
were being sold for like a buck apiece.  And I would grab a whole
stash of them and I would walk out of the store with them and
destroy them.

Q.  And what was the purpose of doing that?

A.  To get them out of the store so no one could see them.

Q.  Why didn't you want anyone to see them?

A.  Because there was information in there, although not
confidential, but it was critical of the Church of
Scientology. And anything that is critical of the Church of
Scientology does not deserve to be in the public. The Church of
Scientology takes a very strong stand on constitutional rights,
but they believe that constitutional rights only apply to them
and nobody else. And it is okay to have positive information
about Scientology out there, but if anyone dares to publish
anything critical, then it has to be eradicated. It can't be

And in response to the library operations, you can go into the
libraries where these books have been stolen and you will notice
a whole slew of pro-Scientology books that have been donated to
the library. The Multnomah County Library has scores of
Scientology courses that are offered on a correspondence course
level that are in the libraries listed as donations, but anything
critical has been eradicated.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 333, in.  1 - p. 340,
in. 24.)

Operations Against Richard Behar Descibed; Scarff Involved in
Financial Scams for CSI; Scarff Directed to Murder Cynthia Kisser
of CAN, and Move to Brazil Afterwards.

Q.  Were you subsequently involved with the Office of Special
Affairs subsequent to May of 1991?

A.  I was not involved directly with the Special Affairs office
until October of '91.

Q.  After your involvement with the Office of Special Affairs
commenced, did you ever hear any reference made within the
Scientology organization to the Time magazine article of May

A.  Plenty. Plenty of conversations regarding that.  And how they
were going to strike at Richard Behar.

Q.  How did the Scientology organization view the Time magazine
article of May 6th, 1991?

A.  Very, very critically. I think hostile would be a better word
for it. And with a desire to wreak revenge on the individuals
that cooperated in that article and the comments that I heard is
that "We are not going to seek justice against Mr. Behar.  We are
going to destroy Mr. Behar. He is going to wish to God he never
published that article in the first place."

I think it is why Bowles & Moxon paid Mr. Ingram so much money to
travel to New York to try to find some means with which to
incriminate Mr. Behar to destroy his credibility.

Q.  Now, do you recall any such conversations as you have just
mentioned to me? Any specific conversations with any specific
members of the Scientology organization?

A.  Well, yes. I mean on a general level with members of the
church just as they do as a matter of policy within the church,
they deny anything that is critical towards the church so there
was a lot of denial going on and of course if anyone was to walk
up to a Scientologist and ask him about the article they would
deny to the teeth that anything in that article was true and it
was all made up and it was all biased and that the individuals
mentioned in the article including your client Steve Fishman is a
liar and he is a criminal and all you have to do is look at their
past and you know that they can't be accepted for any type of

On a general level it was just a bold-face lie created to damage
by the Church of Scientology which they alone would like you to
believe has all the credibility in the world to speak of.

Q.  Just to correct something you said, I represent Dr. Geertz in
this case, not Mr. Fishman.

A.  I am sorry.

Q.  Do you recall --

A.  May I ask one question? On several documents you list Steve
Fishman in this case. If you do not represent him why is his name
listed on some of the documents which have been entered as

Q.  He is a defendant in this case. And we cc him on
documents. He is entitled to be cc'd.

A.  I don't understand lawyers, I guess. I don't understand what
you lawyers do for a living.

Q.  Do you recall conversations regarding the Time magazine
article with any specific member of the Office of Special

A.  Almost definitely. David Butterworth.

Q.  When did that conversation occur, roughly?

A.  This roughly occurred in November of 1991 at the Oklahoma
City Hotel, the Sheraton Hotel where we were staying at during
the CAN disruption campaign.

Q.  Do you recall what Mr. Butterworth said to you dunng that
conversation about the Time magazine article?

A.  I had brought it up to him and asked him how much of it was
true because a lot had been said particularly with regards to an
individual interviewed in the article referring to someone in the
church having access to a certain poison that could be used to
kill s omebody. He said it was all bluff. There was no truth in
it. And there was no substantiation to back it up and it was just
-- Scientology was being targeted and that it was also a
conspiracy by the Cult Awareness Network to destroy the Church of
Scientology that it perceives to be a cult.

Q.  Are you aware that this litigation arises out of statements
made in court proceedings by Mr. Fishman and my client,
Dr. Geertz, which were subsequently confirmed by them to Richard
Behar and published in Time magazine?

A.  The only thing that I know about this case is I thought you
were representing Steve Fishman in the case and I recall Steve
Fishman and Mr. Geertz being referred to in the article, but as
far as the specifics of the case, I don't know what is going on.

Q.  Do you recall any reference being made to either Steven
Fishman or Dr. Geertz in any of the conversations regarding the
Time magazine article?

A.  I recall speaking specifically in the November meeting with
-- not Eugene but David Butterworth about Steve Fishman and he
said that Steve Fishman was a criminal and that he had done all
these things on his own because Steve was trying to blame the
Church of Scientology for what happened to him and for all his

And Butterworth simply denied that the church had any type of
conspiracy with Fishman in this incident.  That Fishman was a bad
apple and that he had committed these crimes and he was trying to
blame the Church of Scientology for them and also that the FBI
had cleared the Church of Scientology from any type of role in
what Fishman was claiming to be the truth.

Q.  Was anything said at all about -- withdrawn.  Was anything
said in that conversation about Fishman having been a member of
the Church of Scientology?

A.  Oh, David Butterworth admitted that he was once a member of
the Church of Scientology but he had not achieved the state of
clear and that he was simply someone taking introductory courses
for the church.

Q.  Was any indication given as to when Mr. Fishman was a member
of Scientology?

A.  No. And I didn't ask him.

Q.  You recall any other conversations with members of the Church
of Scientology regarding the Time magazine article of May 6th,

A.  I have talked with Aaron Mayson about it.  And I have talked
to Eugene about it. And Eugene's position when I spoke with him,
and again I can't recall specifics other than Mr. Ingram just
said it was all baloney, that none of it was true, and that the
side bar that was done on him was done without his cooperation
and that he knows for a fact that all the data that was inside
that article was just trumped up by the Cult Awareness Network
and people associated with it along with law enforcement agencies
that have -- that want the Church of Scientology to be
eliminated. And that's just one big conspiracy.

But Mr. Ingram's position on that whenever I asked him about
specifics in that article was that it was not true. 'I am an
investigator. Trust me. It is all baloney. None of it is true. It
l is all trumped up and there is no evidence to support any of
the allegations in this article.'

Q.  Have you read the Time magazine article dated May 6, l991?

A.  I read it, yes.

Q.  On the basis of your experience with the Church of
Scientology do you have any comment l to make with regard to the
truth or falsity of the statements made in that article?

A.  It is based upon my experience that the statements of that
article is probably true and that Richard Behar did an incredibly
damn good job of reporting the facts in that article. In fact
Eugene Ingram told me at one time if I wanted to kill somebody
with cyanide that he could easily access it through a member in
the church who worked in a chemical Company in Florida that had
access to sodium chloride.

And I recall speaking with someone regarding this, and I don't
remember if it was you or someone else that I had spoken with,
but that confirmed something that was published in the Time
magazine article regarding someone in the church that had access
to cyanide.  I don't remember that being in the article. But
Eugene himself told me that he could get cyanide should we ever
want to place it in someone's coffee or something.

In fact this was one of the discussions we had for disrupting the
CAN conference in 1992 was to gain access to the large industrial
coffeepots that hotels leave out for people at these conferences
and to lace those coffeepots with sodium chloride for the purpose
of making people dangerously ill which would be an effective
disruption of the conference.

And that really hit me like a ton of bricks when I went back to
the article to reread it and I realized that in what Mr. Ingram
told me and what I was reading in the article, there seemed to be
a strong connection there.

And the statements that Mr. Fishman had made and the statements
that Mr. Geertz made; I don't know them personally, but I would
vouch for what they are saying to be 99.9 percent the truth
simply based upon my own experiences.

All you have to do is look at the history of the Church of
Scientology. All you have to do is look at all the documented
facts, documented evidence we have here against Bowles & Moxon
and the Church of Scientology, and you know there can be no doubt
that the Church of Scientology is a criminal organization, in and
out, and that the officials and lawyers within the Church of
Scientology, and I speak of Tim Bowles, Mr. Weiner, all the
attorneys that are working at Bowles & Moxon are part and parcel
to this criminal organization and they all belong behind prison

Q.  Now with regard to Mr. Geertz and Steven Fishman, the Time
magazine article refers to allegations that Steven Fishman was
convicted of being engaged in mail fraud forging activity
involving a financial scam.  Have you been involved in financial
scams that have been committed on behalf of or at the
instructions of the Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And very briefly because we will get into that later in
today's deposition and later tomorrow, what were those types of
financial scams that you were involved in on behalf of the

A.  I am speaking of one operation where I may have defrauded the
government with student loans and misrepresented myself as
needing these funds to pay for college tuition, which they were
initially geared for, but later turning this money over to the
Church of Scientology.

I taught another member within the church how to defraud the
government by preparing the documents necessary for getting
student financial aid and getting Pell grants, money which could
be used for the financial benefit of the Church of Scientology.

And then there is a financial scam that I was involved in with
the personal knowledge of Tim Bowles which I am going to plead
the Fifth on.

Q.  Is it your understanding that what was done in the course of
that financial scam you have just mentioned, is it your
understanding that that conduct would be a felony?

A.  I know for a fact that it could constitute a felony.

Q.  And was that conduct done within the last 12 months or so on
behalf of the Church of Scientology?

A.  It was done within the last 12 months on behalf of
Scientology at the personal directive of Mr. Bowles and
Mr. Butterworth with the knowledge of Mr. Ingram.

Q.  And on the basis for your Fifth Amendment rights you don't
wish to make any further statement about those activities?

A.  I will not.

Q.  Now, we will return to some of the things you just told me
about, financial scams later as a result of this list of yours.

Now, Dr. Geertz and Steven Fishman also claimed at the sentencing
hearing of Steven Fishman that the church had ordered Steven
Fishman to murder Dr. Geertz and then commit EOC or "end of
cycle."  We are going to deal at length I think later today with
those activities, but for the moment in relation to the Time
magazine article, do you have any personal knowledge of
conspiracies to murder and suicide with regard to the Church of

A.  Yes, I do.

Q.  And what is that personal knowledge briefly?  As I say, we
will get into it later.

A.  Through a -- through several conversations by phone, also in
a personal meeting in November of 1991 and in a meeting in
December of '91 at the Church of Scientology Saint Hill
organization building, where the Office of Special Affairs and
Bowles & Moxon is actually located, I was directed, one, to go to
Chicago, Illinois and to murder Cynthia Kisser, Cynthia Kisser
being the Executive Director of the Cult Awareness Network, by a
staged car accident.

The suggested method was cutting her brake lines but it was later
talked about that because Cynthia Kisser drives a Ford Bronco
that it might not be possible to cut a brake line, so therefore,
I could release brake fluid and tamper with the vehicle in such a
way that it would render it out of control at which time I would
be in a vehicle behind it. I would run her off the road,
hopefully running her into a ditch or into a tree. And then
making sure she did not survive the accident.  "So the suggested
ways of following up was to take a pillow and smothering her to
death. Another method was dragging her out of the vehicle and
drowning her. It was also discussed including her young daughter
and killing her in the accident.

Q.  Mr. Scarff, Are you okay to continue?

A.  I didn't know she had a young daughter at the time.

Q.  Would you like to take a break.


Q.  Mr. Scarff, you feel able to continue now?

A.  Yes.

Q.  I realize this is very emotional for you.

A.  Yes.

Q.  Was what you called the conspiracy that you have just
testified to the result of conversations with other people?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Can you tell me who was involved in those other

A.  It was specifically David Butterworth, Eugene Ingram and
myself initially.

Q.  And where did that -- was there one conversation or more than
one conversation?

A.  There was more than one conversation. The specifics of this
conversation, I was told initially from David Butterworth was
something very important that they wanted me to do but he could
not talk about it. And it occurred very late at night following a
disruption operation we had attempted to perform at the Jewish
Federation Center on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles where
Patricia Ryan and Patricia Coates of the Cult Awareness Network
were holding a Jonestown commemorative ceremony.

Q.  When did this conversation occur, roughly?

A.  Roughly after 12:30 in the morning so it would have been
actually the next morning of Sunday, early morning when it

Q.  Sunday when?

A.  November, I believe it was 17th, which is the actual date of
the Jonestown tragedy anniversary.

Q.  And then who was present at that conversation?

A.  Eugene Ingram , David Butterworth and some other people that
I don't know, I didn't even know who they were, but Ingram told
me that they were both from the Legal Office and they worked in
the OSA.

Q.  And by Legal Office what do you mean?

A.  There is -- they weren't individuals that I know now to have
been with Bowlers & Moxon, but down on the floor where the OSA
exists, there is an office adjoining the War Room which they
refer to as the Legal Office. And persons in that Legal Office is
Linda Sarkovich and a woman by the name of Teri whose last name I
don't recall, but she was always in a Sea Org. dress blues
uniform when I spoke with her.

Q.  What is a Sea Org. uniform?

A.  The Sea Org. uniform is a pseudo-Naval uniform worn when you
are a member of the Sea Org. which is a primary branch of the
Church of Scientology, at least they would like you to believe is
a branch, but is actually I believe in control of the Church of
Scientology International.

L. Ron Hubbard always fancied himself to have been a naval hero
in the U.S.  Navy and a hero during World War II and his entire
biography is all self-created and a pack of lies because he
lacked any credibility as far as having a heroic history within
the military. He created this spectacular autobiography that he
was a Navy hero.

And it seemed that the psychosis that had developed from his
creations resulted in a number of activities on his part to
create his own Navy within the Church of Scientology by just
buying loads and loads of boats and referring it them to as his
own Navy fleet.

Today, there is a yacht where high-level courses are taken called
the Freewinds, which is part of the Sea Organization. And as part
of that fancy that L. Ron had for the U.S. Navy, members of the
Sea Organization wear pseudo-naval uniforms. If you go down to
the Hollywood area of Los Angeles, people often see members both
men and women wearing white uniforms that look like they are
naval personnel when in fact they are Sea Org. members.  On
ceremonies they will wear the Navy blues with the colorful braids
which signify different things within the sea organization.  But
it is all part and parcel to L. Ron Hubbard's fancy being a naval
hero and the Church of Scientology having some relationship with
a psuedo-naval military force.

Q.  Now, at this early Sunday morning meeting on or about
November 17, 1991, which I think is when you testified it
occurred --

A.  It occurred very late at night and it was after midnight so
that's why I said Sunday morning versus Saturday night as
previously stated on the record.

Q.  What was said at that meeting by whom?

A.  First David Butterworth recalled my meeting with him.  Just
prior to that it was like two and a half weeks prior to that when
I first met him at the Cult Awareness Network conference in
Oklahoma City and he recalled our conversation where I asked him
if I was doing all I could to meet their conditions of amending
my past where I was not obedient and where I had cursed the
Church of Scientology and where I had made up lies to hurt the
Church of Scientology when I was angry at the world and he said
there was one more thing that they wanted to do. And it was
something that would ultimately bring down the Cult Awareness

They said that up to that point that everything they had tried to
do was not successful and that they wanted to get rid of Cynthia
Kisser once and for all because she was the whole reason that the
Cult Awareness Network existed. She was the wglueW that held it
together and if they could get rid of Cynthia Kisser once and for
all that there would be no one there competent enough to replace
her. wAnd it was Eugene Ingram that said that Priscilla Coates
might step in but that the "old broad" was "not intelligent
enough or didn't have enough time on her hands or something to
that effect that she would be able to walk in and take over for
Cynthia Kisser.

So in order to destroy the Cult Awareness Network all we had to
do was destroy Cynthia Kisser. And I assumed when he said this
that he meant simply attacking her credibility as they have done
in the past but doing it with much more vigor than they have done
so in the past.

Q.  What else was said at that conversation, at that meeting?

A.  Only that they talked to me about the specific operation
where, if I performed this operation that if L.  Ron was still
alive he would be honored to have me at his side and that
Mr. Ingram informed me that David Miscavige was personally aware
of this operation and considered it an honorable role on my
behalf, would welcome me with open arms if I was to perform this
operation, and then we got into the specifics of what they wanted
me to do.

Q.  And were the specifics what you testified about with regard
to Cynthia Kisser just before the break -- let me withdraw the
question.  What were the specifics of the operation very briefly?

A.  The specifics of the operation was for me to fly to Chicago
O'Hare Airport, rent a vehicle with the information provided to
me by the Office of Special Affairs in Los Angeles and the OSA in
Chicago particularly with the tools provided to me by Randy
Kretchmar, who is an official of the OSA in Chicago, to follow
Cynthia Kisser home, run her off the road and take all steps
necessary to render Cynthia Kisser dead.

It was also discussed for a greater impact in these events that
if someone within the Cult Awareness Network got smart enough to
replace Cynthia with someone else, and that if Cynthia Kisser had
her daughter with her, it would be an added benefit to kill
Cynthia Kisser and to kill her daughter as well, because when a
child dies it carries a greater impact in the minds of the public
than if simply an adult dies, and that would send a message to
the Cult Awareness Network that it was time to end their hatred
toward whom they perceived to be cults.  Now, was Gene Ingraun
present at that meeting?

A.  He was present, yes.

Q.  Did he say anything at that meeting?

A.  Yes, he did. He told me that there was absolutely no way that
I could be held accountable if I -- there is no way I could be
caught -- first of all, that immediately after I did it I was to
fly back to Los Angeles and that Mr. Ingram would be responsible
for putting me into to a safe house and if need be, he could
ferret me out of the country to Brazil or Mexico City or one of
the other places that they have established safe houses at. And
that they would keep me there until the steam blew off or until
Bowles & Moxon was successful enough in impeding any type of
legal investigation towards me and that I would be held not
accountable for these crimes, and it was specifically discussed
that they would put me into hiding and that any type of criminal
investigation that was pending towards me, any type of legal
investigation that may have started as a result of this murder,
that Bowles & Moxon would step in and throw so many legal
maneuvers at the courts that there is no way that I would be
eventually prosecuted for this crime. And Eugene laughed and said
that -- he said, 'Trust me. I mean the court dockets are so
overloaded right now, if Bowles & Moxon was to throw all these
legal maneuvers at the courts there do be absolutely no way that
prosecutors would find the time to want to prosecute you for
something like this. ' "And then we got into discussions that --
what would happen if the authorities did charge me with a crime,
if there was the possibility of them catching up to me and if
what he said was going to happen as security precautions did not
work, that's when he mentioned that I could TKO.

Q.  And what is TKO?

A.  I didn't know if it was a Scientology phrase or it is
something that Eugene Ingram used in law enforcement. Is it a law
enforcement term? I don't know. But he told me that TKO was --
and he showed me with his hand. It is not something that he just
told me.

Q.  What did you take him to mean by this?

A.  I asked him and he said that I could just end my life and
that all it takes is a gun shot in the mouth. And -- I mean he
was very specific in telling me that unlike what you see on
television where people simply stick the barrel into the mouth
and pull the trigger, that sometimes people will not die as a
result of that because you have to sever your spinal cord when
you shoot into your mouth to kill yourself. So he suggested
sticking it up towards the gums so it blows my brains
out. Therefore, my brain would not -- he got into technical side
of suicide, and the fact that if you blow your brains out you may
not die right away but at least your brain ceases to function and
you don't have pain.  He says it is a very quick, easy way to end
your life.

Q.  You mentioned earlier that someone had said that L. Ron
Hubbard would be pleased to have you at his side.  Did you have
any understanding of what was meant by that statement?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  What was that understanding?

A.  Because between October when I first met Eugene Ingram after
meeting David Butterworth where I had an immediate affinity for
Mr. Butterworth, mentally I wanted to do everything that I could
to please these people. I wanted to be accepted. I knew that my
past was spotty and that there was a lot of things in the past
that would render me impeachable in the eyes of many people and
here I was wanting to prove myself that I could be trusted to do
something correctly. And I wanted these people's affection and I
wanted these people's respect. And I really trusted -- I really
felt very strongly and had a high regard for Mr. Butterworth and
he treated me with a lot of respect. I wanted to please him. And
I wanted to do what was necessary to be considered in good
standing with the church.

Q.  And Mr. Butterworth, what was his position in the church?

A.  He is the Director of the Office of Special Affairs. He is
the one in charge of the covert and overt operations of the
church throughout the IJ.S. and making sure they are being
carried out.

Q.  Now, was L. Ron Hubbard alive at the time of this
conversation as far as you are aware?

A.  No. He dropped his body in '86.

Q.  How would you be able then to be at the side of L. Ron

A.  What he said is if L. Ron Hubbard was alive that he would be
honored to have me at his side.

Q.  Now, I think you said that there was some discussion with
Mr. Ingram as to how he could hide you after killing Cynthia

A.  Yes. He said, like I said before, he said he had relatives in
Brazil. He could get me to Brazil. I told him that I didn't have
a passport because the only places that I have been out of the
country was Mexico and Canada and they didn't require
passports. He said he could provide me a passport. I wouldn't
even have to go down to the Post Office and apply for it. That he
could give me one right away.

And he also said that he had a son in Colorado going to college
and that there were places in around the Denver & Boulder,
Colorado areas which could be used as safe houses where they
could hide me.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 34_, In. 4 - p. 365,
in. 9.)

Description Given of How CSI Members Hide Out While Fleeing

MR. BERRY: Now, I want you to turn to what will be marked as
Exhibit-110 in your folder.

(Defendant's Exhibit-No. 110 was marked for identification and is
bound separately.)


Q.  What is Exhibit-110 very briefly?

A.  This is a top secret memo. If you notice at the top it says,
"DD," which means Dissemination Division. It is a division within
the Church of Scientology which disseminates materials to their
appropriate departments.

Underneath DD it says, 'Eyes Only' which I have already testified
to on record means very highly confidential document within the
Church of Scientology. Underneath 'Eyes Only' it says 'Top

Q.  Also to the right of "DD" it has something else written?

A.  It looks like "Duke, here is plan to discuss. Love Bryce."

Q.  Now, is "love" a phrase that would be used within the Church
of Scientology?

A.  Yes. I mean when you are tanking about -- well, it is like
any other --

Q.  Now, above the word "Duke" there is what appears to be G/US
and then a line. What does that mean?

A.  I don't know what slash G means. Usually when you have
Dissemination Division slash somebody, it is referring to
somebody within the organization.

For example, when I testified on record, OSA/GM, meant someone
within the OSA division was in charge of receiving this document.

But the specific document refers to hiding people out. It is an
internal Scientology document which explains how the staff within
Scientology can be effective in hiding someone out that's fleeing
prosecution. If you notice the fourth line of the first paragraph
states: 'This must be done in such a way so that they never can
be accused of, "fleeing prosecution."'

Q.  And in relation to your conversation with Gene Ingram that we
have just been talking about, does this document have any

A.  Yes. It is very related to what Mr. Ingram explained to me
was an internal policy which allowed for hiding out individuals
in the church that were fleeing official prosecution.

Q.  And would --

A.  This substantiates everything that Ingram told me and thus
far up until now the Church of Scientology has denied that any of
-- that I have no credibility when I talk about stuff like this,
but this document substantiates it. This is an internal
Scientology document that talks about hiding people from
prosecution. So I don't know why they can call me a liar when I
talk about things like this occurring within the church. It just
makes no sense. It has been documented.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 365, in. 10 -
p. 367. In. 22.)

Murder Conspiracy Directed Against Ford Greene, an Attorney Who
Represented Me

Q.  We are going to come back later in the deposition to the
conspiracy to murder Cynthia Kisser.

But you mentioned there was another murder conspiracy as well.
What was that one?

A.  In December there was a desire in the OSA to end the life of
Ford Greene.

Q.  Who is Ford Greene?

A.  Ford Greene is an attorney who is also a former member of the
Unification Church or what people refer to as the Moonies and he
had represented former Scientologists in litigation involving the
Church of Scientology.

Q.  Would he be opposing counsel to Scientology lawyers?

A.  That's correct. And thus became a target of the Fair Game
doctrine by the church.

Q.  Now, how did this concern regarding Ford Greene come about?

A.  One--

Q.  Was there a meeting?

A.  Yes, there was a meeting at Bowles & Moxon.

Q.  When did this meeting take place?

A.  I recall it being around December 20th and it was on a
Saturday morning because I flew in on a Friday and we met on
Saturday morning in the offices of Bobbies & Moxon -- within the
Saint Hill organization building in Los Angeles.

Q.  What is the Saint Hill organization building?

A.  It is one of the Scientology buildings on Berendo Street.  It
is where people come in off the street to learn more about the
church and its courses.

Q.  And--

A.  And it is one of several Scientology controlled buildings in
the area, but it houses the offices of -- the Office of Special
Affairs and it also houses Bowvles & Moxon although they
deliberately misrepresent themselves on their stationery as being
located several blocks down on Sunset Boulevard.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 368, in. 23 - p. 369,
in. 15.)

Bowles & Moxon Part of CSI, Its Offices Located Directly Above
Office of Special Affairs

Q.  Let's turn to Exhibit-103 for a second, which is in that
binder.  It is a document which appears to be a Bowles & Moxon

A.  Yes.

Q.  What address is given on that letter?

A.  The address given on this letter is 6255 Sunset Boulevard,
Suite 2000, Hollywood, California.  It is the same address which
has been on their stationery, as far as I can remember.

Q.  Isn't that their address?

A.  No. They own -- it is my understanding they own the building
and there are conference rooms in that building that they use for
legal proceedings, but, no, this is not their actual offices. It
acts as a maildrop. Bowles & Moxon deliberately misrepresents
itself as simply a law firm that represents among its many
clients the Church of Scientology. That is a deliberate lie. They
know it. I know it. And it has been established in court record
as a lie.

Their actual offices are on 1401 Berendo Street in the old Cedars
of Lebanon Hospital building in Hollywood, California.  And their
offices are directly above the Office of Special Affairs which is
why there is so much contact between the Office of Special
Affairs and Bowles & Moxon because they are within one floor of
one another.  Tim Bowles also wroks for the OSA.

Q.  Before we turn to Exhibit-21, there is a phone number under
the address up there. Have you ever telephoned Bowles & Moxon

A.  Yes, I have.

Q.  Have you used that number or another number?

A.  No, this number has been changed and the fax number has also
been changed. If you look at the document that was filed with my
name on it dated October of '91 -- I forgot what exhibit that was
-- it is where Eugene Ingram claims that they are doing a lawful
background investigation on the Cult Awareness Network. You will
notice that the telephone number is different. You will notice
that the fax number is different. "Also in the numerous telephone
bills where I have called Bonvles & Moxon in the past you will
notice that the numbers are different.

Q.  Let's take a moment to find the letter that -- here we
are. Exhibit-30.

A.  You will notice that on Exhibit-30 the phone number has a 661
prefix. The fax number has a 662 prefix.  Whereas on this
Exhibit-103 it has a 953 prefix on both.  They have changed their
phone numbers.

Q.  And do you recall what the phone number of the Office of
Special Affairs is?

A.  I don't recall it by memory, however, have filed as an
exhibit a document called "Personal Contacts" where I have listed
all my Scientology contacts I had during the years 1991 to
1992. And it lists those numbers for Bowles & Moxon. And I will
search for that exhibit.

Q.  Exhibit-24.

A.  If you look at No. 3, Bowles & Moxon law firm and I put in
parentheses Inside Saint Hill Org. on Catalina Street.

And to the right it says 213 and then has the 661 and 662

Q.  And about the phone number for the Church of Scientology
Office of Special Affairs?

A.  They have a 661 and a 666 prefix.

Q.  And if you were to dial the phone number on your list for
Bowles & Moxon now, what would happen?

A.  It would probably be a disconnected number.

Q.  Why don't you try it. And perhaps if you do it over here the
camera can see you do it.

A.  If by doing that I can't carry this with me.

Q.  That's okay.

A.  Just dial 9?

Q.  Just dial 9 to get out and dial what it says to be the number
for Bowles & Moxon,: 661-4030.

A.  On the telephone: "I am sorry, thank you very much."
Mr. Berry, it wasn't a disconnected number. A woman answered
"Bowles & Moxon."

Q.  Let's go back to the deposition table. Now, referring again
-- sorry, Mr. Scarff, what telephone number did you just dial?

A.  I dialed 661-4030. A woman answered the phone as announced it
as the office of Bowles & Moxon.

Q.  And is that the same telephone number that is on your list of
personal contacts under Item 3, Exhibit-24?

A.  It is the number listed in Exhibit-24.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 369, in. 16 -p. 373,
in. 13.)

Bowles & Moxon Office Inside CSI Building.

Q.  And what was your testimony about the location of the Office
of Special Affairs and Bowles & Moxon?

A.  When you go into the Saint Hill Organization building -- and
I was incorrect on Exhibit-24. I put there on Catalina Street. It
is actually on Berendo Street. Catalina Street is the street
parallel to that going I would say North to South. Anyway the
buildings are bounded by Berendo, Catalina, Sunset and Fountain
Streets.  If you go up two flights of stairs, and we are not
talking about the cafeteria that is on the bottom level, but you
go up two flights of stairs you come into the Office of Special
Affairs and various classrooms. You go to the office above it is
Bowles & Moxon. And they can't really deny that because if you go
there you will see on the doors in big block letters Office of
Special Affairsw and then going up one floor you will see in big
block letters "Bowles & Moxon" right on the door.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 373, in. 19 - p. 374,
in. 13.)

Timothe Bowles a Member of CSI, Office of Special Affairs.

Q.  Now, turning your attention to Exhibit-No. 21 which has been
previously identified and entered into -- marked for
identification, on Page 3 of that exhibit, Internal No. 33, do
you recognize the photograph of a man in that picture?

A.  Yes, I do. That's Timothy Bowles.

Q.  Is there anything in that document about Timothy Bowles?

A.  Yes, there is. It is an article talking about Timothy Bowles,
him becoming a patron of the International Association of
Scientologists and Mr. Bowles states -- it states in the article
that Timothy Bowles is an attorney for the Church of Scientology
and works in the Office of Special Affairs, OSA.

When I read this article I was quite surprised because Timothy
Bowles has always said on record that he is not a part of the OSA
and he is with Bowlers & Moxon and they are two separate

Q.  Why don't we read the rest of the article into the record.

A.  The entire article?

Q.  Yes.

A.  'Timothy Bowles is an attorney for the Church of Scientology
and works in the Office of Special Affairs (OSA).  He is new OTIV
and a Hubbard Standard Dianetics auditor and executive status
I. He has been a lawyer for ten years and is now a patron of the

'The association vitally needs and deserves the increased support
of every Scientologist worldwide.

'I have represented the Churches of Scientology in defense of our
religious liberty in America since 1978. I now work full time in
this fight with the United States Office of Special Affairs.
Following graduation from a California law school in 1977 my wife
Rona and I moved to Oregon to work on staff at the Delphian
School. A year later I was asked to help on the defense of a
lawsuit brought against various Scientology churches in Portland,

'The case seemed insignificant at the time as it was not
conceivable that the Church of Scientology would not be given the
protection provided all religions by the First Amendment of the
constitution of the United States. Instead the judge in that case
ignored clear First Amendment principles and in the summer of
1979 presided over a full-blown hearsay trial.

'That judge's errors were eventually corrected by an appeal to a
senior judge in a higher court. Since then the fight for our
religious freedom has of course continued on many different
fronts. Through all of these more recent battles the association
has been there as an indispensable force of reason and protection
of our religious faith.

'I have recently become a patron because I feel that no matter
the level of current contribution one can and should always do
more to assure that spiritual freedom is preserved and expanded
for all of mankind.  "Mankind" capitalized.  L. Ron Hubbard set
that standard throughout his life. I believe that this is an
example of caring and contribution that all of us can only hope
to equal, never surpass. For me being a patron is one very
significant step along that road.

'Legal wins feel great.  We at OSA intend to make that a
habit. Ensuring the future of our religion through contribution
to the association above the call of duty feels just as

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 374, in. 14 - p. 378,
in. T7.)

Moxon Involved in Operation Snow White and Conspiracy to Murder
Cvnthia Kisser and Ford Greene.

Q.  Now, there is the word "Moxon" in the word Bowles & Moxon.
Do you know who Moxon refers to?

A.  Yes. That refers to attorney Kendrick Moxon.

Q.  And have you met attorney Kendrick Moxon?

A.  Yes, I have.

Q.  And during the worst of your meetings with Kendrick Moxon,
have you obtained any understanding as to part of his background?

A.  Yes, I have.

Q.  And what is that understanding you have as to earlier
significant events in his background?

A.  In both conversations with Mr. Moxon himself, he seems pretty
proud of the fact, and in conversations with Eugene Ingram, David
Butterworth and Sue Taylor, who is the Director of Public
Affairs, Church of Scientology in Washington, D.C., Mr. Moxon was
one of the original coconspirators involved in Operation Snow
White against the FBI and the Internal Revenue Service which
resulted in the arrest and conviction of 11 high-ranking members
of the Church of Scientology in Washington, D.C. which also
included the imprisonment of L. Ron Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue

Mr. Moxon is very proud of the fact that he was intimately
involved in that whole unlawful affair and the FBI never caught
him. He is proud of fact that he got away with doing unlawful
stuff and he never got arrested or convicted for it.

Q.  Have you had any conversations with Mr. Moxon in which you
gave he that impression?

A.  Yes. I did. When I spoke to Moxon my serious concerns about
being caught and prosecuted for killing both Cynthia Kisser and
killing Ford Greene, he mentioned this Snow White operation in
which he was a part of and he tried to assure me there was
absolutely nothing to worry about because I could trust him and I
could trust the other legals to help me get away with this. He
claimed there was no way anyone was going to find out.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 378, in. 18 - p. 380,
in. 13.)

Bowles & Moxon to Intervene on Scarff's Behalf Once Ms. Kisser
Was Murdered.

Q.  Before we proceed with a discussion of the meeting regarding
the conspiracy to murder Ford Greene, I would like to return
briefly to the meeting you testified to regarding the conspiracy
to murder Cynthia Kisser.

Now, did there come a time that weekend or at the end of that
weekend when you left Los Angeles?

A.  Yes, I did. I left on Monday.

Q.  And before you left Los Angeles did you have any further
meetings at the Church of Scientology?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  And with whom did you have any such further meetings?

A.  Eugene Ingram took me upstairs to the offices of Bowles &
Moxon because he said that Tim and Kendrick wanted to say
good-bye to me because they had not had the chance to speak with
me before. And I said good-bye to Tim but Kendrick was in a depo
or a session of some sort according to Eugene so I didn't get to
see him. But Tim greeted me very warmly and said that he knew
that I was there for the weekend but he was busy with stuff and
hadn't had the chance to talk with me, and that was it.

Q.  By 'Tim and Kendrick' who do you mean?

A.  I'm talking about Timothy Bowles and Kendrick Moxon, who are
attorneys for Bowles & Moxon, the in-house law firm for

Q.  Now, did you have any understanding as to their knowledge, if
any, of the meeting you had had regarding the conspiracy to
murder Cynthia Kisser?

A.  I presumed from my knowledge and my experience within the
Church of Scientology and the policies that are strictly adhered
to within the Church of Scientology that one does not speak on
behalf of another, and that when Mr. Ingram and Mr. Butterworth
were advising me that once the murder had been committed that we
would have Bowles & Moxon intervene on my behalf on a legal
basis, I was confident then that Tiln Bowles and Kendrick Moxon
knew exactly about the conspiracy because Ingram -- particularly
David Butterworth, who is a Scientology member, in the face of
being punished with RPF would not compromise his high- ranking
position in the Church of Scientology by saying something with
regards to Bowles and Moxon unless Bowles & Moxon was
specifically aware of the statement that was being made to me.

And so it was my confident feeling that Timothy Bowles given the
fact of the way that he greeted me, said that he knew that I was
in L.A. that Timothy Bowles was very knowledgeable about the plan
for me to go to Chicago and kill Cynthia Kisser and her daughter.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 382, in. 15 - p. 384,
in. 21.)

Eugene Ingram. David Butterworth. Tim Bowles, Ken Moxon. Lauri
Bartilson and Scarff Present at Meeting Where Murder of Ford
Greene Discussed; Meeting at Bowles & Moxon Office: Specifics of
Murder Discussed; Bartilson Tooks Notes.

Q.  Now, a little while ago before the lunch break you started to
talk about a subsequent meeting that took place regarding a
conspiracy to murder Attorney Ford Greene.

A.  That's correct.

Q.  Can you tell me when that meeting took place and where it
took place and who was there?

A.  It took place on or about December 20th -- I believe it to be
December 20th. It was Saturday morning -- at the Bowles & Moxon
office at the Saint Hill organization building, Church of
Scientology Intemational, Los Angeles.  In that meeting were Gwen
-- I'm sorry. Strike that -- Eugene Ingram, David Butterworth,
attorneys Tim Bowles, Ken Moxon, Laurie Bartilson and myself.

Q.  Who is Laune Bartilson?

A.  Laurie Bartilson is an attorney for Bowles & Moxon who is
currently representing Scientology in a lawsuit against Gerry
Armstrong, a former Scientologist.

Q.  Do you know about what time did that meeting take place?

A.  Approximately 8:00, say 8:00 in the morning.  It lasted for
several hours.

Q.  You said it took place in the offices of Bowles & Moxon?

A.  That's correct.

Q.  Whereabouts in the offices of Bowles & Moxon?

A.  I'm sorry.

Q.  Was it in -- did you know whose --

A.  It was a conference room.  To the left as you go in the doors
you have a receptionist's desk on the left and you have several
offices, and just beyond the receptionist's desk there is a
little conference room and this is the conference room we were

Q.  I see. Is that the office of Bowles & Moxon that you
previously said was on the floor above the Office of Special
Affairs in the Saint Hill building? HA. Yes, it is.

Q.  Now, can you tell me what was said at that meeting and by

A.  Eugene Ingram was the primary talker in all of this, and
Eugene told me that reflecting on our conversation in November,
whereby Mr. Ingram had filed a complaint against Ford Greene for
ethics violations to try to get him disbarred, Mr. Ingram said
that nothing was going successfully with that, that the Bar
Association in the State of California is a pansy organizationw
and that nothing was happening with that.

And that Gerry Armstrong, who was a former member of the church,
very well known and who has been very publicized because of his
departure from the church and the litigation he has been involved
with with the church since then, had joined forces with Ford
Greene and that both of them were in fact homosexual, and the
term he used is that they were "fuck buddies", and that Gerry
Arrnstrong and Ford Greene were on a kind of a vigilante type of
effort against the Church of Scientology.

And that Mr. Armstrong, who had signed a settlement with the
Church of Scientology in 1986 in which he agreed he would no
longer criticize the church or say anything detrimentalabout the
church, was in fact working with Ford Greene in a manner which
was very adverse to the Church of Scientology and that he was
basically raising legal issues to attack the Church of

Q.  So was anything else said at that meeting?

A.  Well, yes. We talked about killing Ford Greene.

Q.  So what was said with regard to that?

A.  Eugene told me that there is "no loss in a dead fag" and he
basically said it would be a much easier operation for me to
perform since I had failed in carrying out my planned effort to
murder Cynthia Kisser. He said that Ford would be an easier
target and that Ford was a major target that had to be
eliminated. HAnd they said because Ford had a history of cocaine
abuse and alcohol abuse and it was known that he enjoyed driving
his car at very high speeds, and I could recall 90 miles to a 100
miles per hour on the highway back in 1987, that it would be easy
to run this man off the road and kill him. Eugene even commented
about the aspect of running him off the Golden Gate Bridge, which
would insure his death, and that there wouldn't be a lot of
investigation behind that simply because Ford Greene had a very
impeachable reputation to begin with. But they definitely saw
Ford Greene as a threat simply because of him getting together
with Gerry Armstrong.

Q.  So what else was, if anything, was said at that meeting and
by whom?

A.  Mr. Butterworth and Mr. Ingram discussed with me other ways
to get at Ford Greene.  If not to kill Ford Greene, Mr. Ingram
told me that he could gain access to incriminating materials like
child pornography, which to possess is a violation of federal
law, drugs and to break into Ford Greene's law office and plant
these items and then to call the police and have Ford Greene
arrested for possession of child pornography.

Q.  Did Mr. Ingram indicate where he might obtain these

A.  Yes, he did. Mr. Ingram has told me in the past that he is an
honorable -- strike that. He is an honored veteran of the Los
Angeles Police Department where he received an honorable
discharge for something and that he had a lot of contacts within
the law enforcement community in California and that he could
easily gain access to the evidence rooms facilitated by the Los
Angeles Police Department and could access cocaine, guns, and
anything there that he needed to use in his investigations.

Q.  Was anything else said about the plan to murder Ford Greene
at that meeting?

A.  Not that I can recall right now.

Q.  Now, you said that Tim Bowles, Ken Moxon and Laurie Bartilson
of the law firm of Bowles & Moxon were present during that
meeting. Did they say anything during that meeting?

A.  Laurie was totally silent during the entire meeting. She said
absolutely nothing. Tim Bowles said that Ford Greene was a
decisive threat because of his relationship with Gerry Armstrong.
I questioned that because having known Ford Greene in 1987, at
which time I carried out an operation against him, I told Tim
that the man was a drug addict, he was a drunk, he was very
insecure, mentally unstable and that he was not a threat, but
they seemed to feel that he was a decisive threat because of his
relationship with Gerald Armstrong and that -- we had to lose

Q.  Tim Bowles said that?

A.  Yes. Tim Bowles himself.

Q.  Did Mr. Bowles voice any opposition to the of killing of Ford

A.  Absolutely not. Kendrick Moxon did not voice any opposition
to him. In fact, when Eugene made the comment there is " no loss
in a dead fag," everyone laughed.  Everyone thought it was
incredibly funny.

Q.  What about Miss Bartilson, did she say anything with regard
to the killing of Ford Greene?

A.  Absolutely not. she sat there writing on a note pad such as
yours, and she wrote notes and that was it. It's like she was a
secretary writing for the meeting.

Q.  Did anyone oppose the killing of Ford Greene at that meeting?

A.  I would say the only person that had any opposition to
killing Ford Greene at that meeting was myself because I was
afraid of the consequences of doing that.

Q.  Was there any discussion of what the consequences of doing
that might be?

A.  Yes. If I was caught I would end up on Death Row in the State
of California.

Q.  What discussion took place regarding that?

A.  I was told I had absolutely nothing to worry about because
Bowles & Moxon would take of it. Eugene would take care of it.
If necessary they could get me out of the country and put me into
hiding. Tim Bowles said don't worry. We'll take care of it. And
when they said "we'll take care of it," I assumed that, as had
been discussed in the November meeting, that they would file the
numerous legal maneuvers in the courts against prosecutors
basically to impede in any type of prosecution against me, and I
figured that's what they meant.

Q.  What did Gene Ingram say about what might be done after Ford
Greene had been killed?

A.  He simply brought up what we had discussed in November again
with the possibility if I saw no other way out, that I could kill

Q.  And that was to commit suicide like you told us about before?

A.  That was to put a gun barrel in my mouth, stick it up to my
gums and blow my brains out.

Q.  Have you ever heard of a phrase of R245 in Scientology?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Was there any further discussion at that meeting regarding
the specifics of how Ford Greene was to be killed?

A.  Not that I can recall.

Q.  Did you have any further discussions -- sorry. How long did
that meeting take or last?

A.  Approximately two to three hours.  It was about 11:00 when we

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 385, in. 22 - p. 393,
in. 4.)

Scarff Confirms that Tim Bowles was at Meeting When Murder or
Ford Greene was Discussed.

Q.  Now, you're certain that Tim Bowles was at that meeting?

A.  Yes. Tim Bowles --

Q.  You're aware that he has filed a declaration in another
lawsuit, which we'll deal with later, denying that he was

A.  Yes, yes.

Q.  Do you have any comment at this time to make with regard to
that declaration?

A.  Yes. In fact, in a lawsuit regarding Jerry Armstrong I had
provided a declaration of Ford Greene, and I told Ford Greene
that on the weekend of -- it was approximately December 20th I
met with Tim Bowles, and Tim Bowles filed a declaration on his --
on himself saying that he had been in Oklahoma and that he had
returned to Los Angeles on Saturday, December 20th, and spent
December 20th through December 26th with his family in Los
Angeles and that he has proof to show that he wasn't here on
December l9th.

I told Ford that Ford had mis -- when I provided him the
declaration on the telephone, that he had typed his declaration
in error because I said it was approximately that time, not that
specific date, which Mr. Bowles challenges in his
declaration. And Ford told me that because he had already
submitted the declaration to the court that I could simply
correct that when I appeared in court.

Q.  Now, Mr. Scarff, I have now located the calendar for the year
1991 that I was looking for, the year 1992, along with the
declaration of Timothy Bowles, Exhibit-20.

Placing before you a document which we shall mark as Exhibit-169,
a series of calendars for the years 1990, '91 and '92, does that
document assist you to refresh your recollection as to the exact
date on which the meeting at Bowles & Moxon with Gene Ingram,
David Butterworth, Timothy Bowles, Kendrick Moxon, Laurie
Bartilson and yourself occurred in reference to the conspiracy to
murder Ford Greene?

A.  Yes, it does. As I maintained all along, it occurred on a
Saturday morning. I just got the date wrong. According to the
calendar it was Saturday, December 21st.

Q.  On the previous occasions both in this case and in the Wisel
case when you have testified about these dates, have you had the
benefit of a calendar?

A.  I have not.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 393, in.  23 - p. 396,
in. 9.)

Conspiracy to Murder Ford Greene Involved Ken Moxon.  Tim Bowles,
Lauri Bartilson, Eugene Ingram and David Butterworth.

Q.  Now, turning to Paragraph 8 of the declaration of Timothy
Bowles dated March 1, 1993, Mr. Bowles states that he first met
you on December 17, 1992 in Portland, Oregon. What do you have to
say about that, if anything?

A.  Mr. Bowles -- to you or to the camera? Mr. Bowles, you're a

Q.  Why is Mr. Bowles a liar?

A.  Because I have met Mr. Bowles in 1991, at which time he
knows, as well as other members of the Office of Special Affairs,
that we were all involved in a solicitation to kill two people,
Ford Greene and Cynthia Kisser, which I am very confident he was
very much aware of or he would have objected or said something
and he did not.  And Mr. Bowles is either totally ignorant and a
very stupid individual or he knew exactly what was happening and
just chose not to say anything about it.

Q.  Do you have any doubt that anyone present at the meeting at
Bowles & Moxon on December 21, 1993 --

A.  '92

Q.  -- 1992 where the killing of Ford Greene was planned --

A.  I'm sorry. '91.

Q.  -- '91, do you have any doubts whether anyone present at that
meeting were mistaken about the nature of the discussion that was
taking place?

A.  Absolutely not, absolutely not. They had to be incredibly
stupid if they didn't know what was going on, and the fact that
they were all sitting in that conference room prepared to discuss
this situation, how could they not know? I mean, this was a
preplanned meeting on Saturday at 8:00 in the morning which they
flew me in from Portland for. When you go to the Saint Hill
organization building, most staff members don't show up to their
posts until around 9:00 in the morning or thereafter.  This
happened at 8:00 in the morning, and for them to say that they
didn't know anything -- how can you even imagine that they
wouldn't know, being attorneys?

Q.  Is it your testimony that everyone present at the meeting was
part of the plan to kill Ford Greene?

A.  If I had killed Ford Greene, everyone in that room, Ken
Moxon, Tirn Bowles, Laurie Bartilson, Eugene Ingram and David
Butterworth, would all belong on Death Row right alongside me.

(Declaration of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 398, in. 13 - p. 400,
In. 13.)

Discrepancy in Declaration Explained.

Q.  Now, let's turn to the declaration you gave to Ford Greene,
Exhibit-l9, and see if we can clarify a discrepancy here.

A.  Sure.

Q.  Paragraph 7 of that declaration, which is referred to in the
Bowles declaration, contains a list of people present at a
meeting, which you say in that declaration took place on December
20, which you've subsequently revised having reference to the

A.  Well, if you notice Ford Greene's explanation, he also says
'On or about' which to me means the same thing as

Q.  Is the meeting referred to in Paragraph 7 the same meeting
that you have just been describing?

A.  Yes, it is, and there is a discrepancy in that paragraph, and
again, this is something I brought up to Ford Greene on February
l9th when he flew me here to Los Angeles to testify as a witness
for Jerry Armstrong, and he told me not to worry about it, that
it's something I could simply clear up in court because he had
gotten names mixed up.

Q.  Now, when you had that discussion with Ford Greene, was there
any discussion as to who the correct participants at the meeting
being referred to in Paragraph 7?

A.  Yes. Because when he called me and said he wanted a
declaration from me, he called me at work, and I had to take a
break from work, and over a five-minute period this is basically
what happened. And so this was quickly read over the phone to
Ford Greene, and Ford Greene asked me on the phone, 'You did not
mention Randy Spencer, and you said in prior testimony that
you've had some dealings with Randy Spencer. Was he present?'
And I said, 'No.' And he said, 'Okay.'

And then when this declaration was kicked out, and I recall
Mr. Greene faxing a copy back to me the same day for my review
and signature, it said Randy Spencer and Eric Moran. And he said,
'I'll take Randy out. I'll put Laurie in.' When the final copy
came out, nothing had been changed, and Ford said that he had
been very busy with a number of things getting ready for this
trial because it was a very big trial that he was preparing for
and not to worry about it because when I got into court, was put
on the stand, I could simply correct the discrepancies in the
report. That it was no big deal.

Q.  If you were given the opportunity to do that, how would you
have corrected those discrepancies?

A.  In Item 7 I would omit Randy Spencer and put Laurie
Bartilson's name.

Q.  Anything else?

A.  And it has Eric Moran in here, and Eric wasn't there.

Q.  So if there was a -- if you were given the opportunity in the
Armstrong case to revise the list of participants at the meeting
in Paragraph 7 and the date of that meeting, what would you say?

A.  You mean as far as the lawyers?

Q.  As to who was there and what date it took place.

A.  Ken Moxon, Tim Bowles, Laurie Bartilson, David Butterworth,
Eugene Ingrain and myself.

Q.  And with regard to the date, would you make any change to

A.  December 21st, Saturday.

Q.  Now, following the Saturday, December 21st, 1991 meeting at
Bowles & Moxon, did anything else occur regarding the conspiracy
to murder Ford Greene?

A.  You mean in that same weekend?

Q.  No. I mean just generally.

A.  Well, I didn't carry it out. I could not bring myself to harm
or kill anybody.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 400, in. 14 - p. 403,
in. 19.)

David Butterworth Pressues Scarff to Murder Ford Greene.

Q.  Were there any further discussions regarding that conspiracy
to kill Ford Greene?

A.  There was the talk of Eugene Ingram going to Florida to
extract a declaration from Margery Wakefield. It wasn't dealing
with the actual killing, is that what you're asking, the actual
conspiracy to kill, or another operation to discredit Ford?

Q.  Well, first of all, was there any further conversations
between you and anyone at Scientology for Bowles & Moxon
regarding the killing of Ford Greene?

A.  It came up later in the spring of '92 when Butterworth called
me and asked rne when was I going to start following orders and
doing what was expected of me, and it was brought up again in
August of '92 when it became a very insistent issue.  And it was
that constant pressure that brought me to write a letter to
Cynthia Kisser asking to speak with her attorneys because I
didn't know anyone else to turn to. I didn't have any credibility
with the Cult Awareness Network at that point, and certainly
there was no one within the Church of Scientology I could go to
for help because they all follow the same party line. If I told
anyone in the Portland Org.  that I was disturbed, I knew
immediately that would go right back through the lines to David

Q.  By 'disturbed' you mean disturbed about what?

A.  Disturbed about why they chose me as the individual that they
wanted to kill Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene, and I asked David
Butterworth on different occasions why me, why not somebody
else. He felt that I was the perfect individual for it. That he
knew that I had been angry with different people and that I would
be the most effective person to do it, and that I had spoken to
him in the past, and it was just -- I remember the conversations
to be a manipulation of our earlier conversations on how if I
wanted to be in the best graces of the church that I needed to
follow directives, and this is one way of gaining that respect
and gaining my dignity back as a Scientologist that I had lost
with the numerous violations that occurred in rny past history
with the church.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 403, in.  20 - p. 405,
in. 15.)

Planned Murders. of Cynthia Kisser and Ford Greene Discussed;
Planned Release of False Information; Scarff Threatened by

Q.  Had you ever heard of a phrase "for the greater good of

A.  Yes.

Q.  In what context?

A.  Well, back in November of '91, for example, killing Cynthia
Kisser, David Butterworth mentioned that it would be for the
greater good of Scientology. And there was also some discussion
to that on Saturday morning, I believe it was November 16th or
17th, when David Butterworth told me that he wanted to introduce
me to his entire OSA staff, and I went out into the hallway, and
his entire staff -- not only the OSA but all the adjoining
offices in the area were standing out in the hallway at parade
rest in ranks of three, and there were approximately I would say
50+ people there at parade rest. And he had me address his staff,
and he introduced me as someone that was going to eliminate the
Cult Awareness Network within one year, that we had a lot of
surprises for Cynthia Kisser and her other cue conspirators and
that Mr. Scarff was going to be one way of effectively destroying
the Cult Awareness Network.

Q.  At that meeting where the killing of Cynthia Kisser was
planned, did anyone present at that meeting seem to have any
doubts as to the reality of what was being planned?

A.  No one expressed any doubts whatsoever, and as I've stated on
record before, I wasn't entirely confident of my support system
in that meeting and I wasn't entirely confident in the December
meeting with the fact that they were going to come to my aid if I
did anything criminal.  And I also had a very difficult time with
a personal conscience telling me that it was wrong to kill
anybody because I had never physically injured anybody in my life
and I questionned why they were having me do it. I got the sense
that there was an awful lot of things that they weren't telling
me and they probably wanted me dead as well as they wanted
Cynthia Kisser dead. And they kept me telling me that it wasn't
that case at all. It's just something that needed to be done and
they wanted me to do it.

And then when Ingram discussed putting a gun in my mouth and
pulling the trigger, I wondered just how much these people really
did care for me.  I guess it was that and my own personal
conscience that told me that something just wasn't right
here. And I guess someone can look at me and say well, why didn't
you leave the Church at that time, but I didn't. I was too
dependent on them, and I mean, there -- anyone looking in on this
would look at the death plots and they might question how
Scientology creates these operations and plans to carry them out,
but they need to look at it with the perspective that this is a
very organized criminal organization that has everything
intricately plotted out.  The problem that people don't realize
is that when I was in Scientology working for the OSA, in
addition to talking about murdering Ford Greene and murdering
Cynthia Kisser, they were throwing all these other projects, all
these other cycles that needed to be completed. all these other
things that had to be done by me. And so I was continually
running six, seven operations at the same time.

And at the same time that they were talking about killing Ford
Greene they were talking about discrediting his professional and
personal integrity by having someone file a declarationagainst
Ford Greene stating that Ford agreed to provide legal services in
return for homosexual activity and that he agreed to barter his
legal services in return for sex, and Eugene Ingram even talked
about flying to Tampa, Florida where ex-Scientologist Margery
Wakefield lives, being that Margery Wakefield is someone that had
earlier sued the church of Scientology and received a financial
settlement, that the church was very interested in incriminating
Margery. And they were talking about Eugene going down there to
Florida and posing as someone other than a investigator for
Bowles & Moxon and not revealing his direct connections with
Scientology and thus getting a declaration against Ford Greene
because Eugene said that he had information which proved that
Ford Greene had once compromised his legal position by not only
representing Margery Wakefield in a lawsuit but, at the same
time, involving her in a sexual relationship and that he uses
sexual relationships to manipulate his clients.

Flying around the country under the misrepresentation of someone
else is something that Eugene Ingram is very good at. I know of a
Cathy Lane, who filed a declaration against Cynthia Kisser
alleging that Cynthia is a former strip dancer in Arizona, and
Scientology even had me speak at a press conference that Cynthia
Kisser was not only a strip dancer but a former prostitute, in an
attempt to destroy her professional credibility in the media.
None of it is true. Eugene Ingrain flew to New York to
substantiate the facts in the Fallon deprogramming that I had
been involved in at one time, and knowing that the Fallons had an
anti-Scientology attitude, he misrepresented himself as a writer
for a magazine for retired firemen called "Backdraft", and that
he was able to manipulate Mrs. Fallon into providing him
information through his misrepresentations.

He also got a declaration from a Santa Fe police officer when
Eugene flew to Santa Fe, New Mexico in an attempt to incriminate
Joe Szimhart, and Eugene told this police officer that Joe
Szimhart was a kidnapper and deprogrammer that had broken the
laws by kidnapping and deprogramming people and that Theresita
Scolly, the woman that Joe Szimhart was working with was the
girlfriend of this police officer. So through misrepresentation
and insinuating police misconduct, Eugene was able to get a
declaration under duress from this Santa Fe police officer, and
Eugene gloats about his successes and how easy it is for him to
lie and to misrepresent himself and get the intended results.

(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 405, ln. 16 - p. 410,
ln. 12.)