Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.
This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.
My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.
[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]
It is interesting to note that most of the positive mail (in support of scamway) talks about God and quotes scripture. I have read most of the Bible and it is interesting to note that Jesus was homeless, he taught of giving your life away for others - be a servant - be humble. He also said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle that a rich man to enter heaven. He spoke of storing your riches in heaven rather than storing them on earth where it rusts and theives can steal it.
Where do these amoids get their basis for cultivating riches and saying it is supported by God. The only thing they quote is the truth shall set you free. Too bad they have ignored the truth. It makes me sick to see the greed on the faces of these people and in the writing of their email letters. They are missing the point of life! They think the person who is the richest with the most toys wins. BUt the truth is that person is the big looser. What did Jesus tell the rich man who inquired about eternal life and how to go to heaven "Sell all you have and give it to the poor". THe man left and was very sad because he was ver rich.
I am sorry these people are so duped. I know others in other businesses that think money and possessions bring happiness and contentment. But that is not true. Only Jesus brings contentment. THat is the truth, and that will make you free.
Content with what I have from Him
My wife just got involved with amway last week, so far we have only spent the $144.10 + 2.00 insurance and got a box of products to try. So far every product has been unsatisfactory and we have told them that we were only interested in buying product and using the catalog to save money.(the prices on the name brand products look good)
Because of my background in Sales Management and My list of people that I have influence over, they are very excited about us. In fact we didnt go to the weekly meeting, nor attend a rally they had, but 3 upline people showed up today to meet us. I guess that was suppose to impress me, When a guy that been in for 7 years came to Savannah, GA from St Augustine Fl and stopped to see me, but it didnt.
That is why I decided to go on the internet and search Amway, and boy am i glad I did, and am i glad i found you.
It will take some time to digest all the material you have in Web Site, (congrats on such a great Site, by the way) but I will write again soon with my decision. Doesnt look good does it. Such a shame, when the opportunity for a Great Business is There.
I remember your posts from Usenet, and here I am stumbling upon this page. I had a friend who gave his life to Amway about 18 months ago. He has since mostly come to his senses and is inactive. Let me just confirm that all the stories and weirdness that I used to read about are absolutely true. I briefly went to some Amway gatherings and immediatly felt like I had stepped into... well, an Amway meeting. I couldn't handle being made to feel that I was the only irrational person in the room just because I had a lot of questions. Couldn't I see how lucky I was to be one of the chosen ones?? Don't blow your only chance for true happiness!! Etc, etc... Thanks for getting the word out---- I'm glad this page is here so I can point anyone that has doubts to take a look.
My wife and I were recently approached by a neighbour who asked if we were interested in making some extra money in our spare time. Of course we said "yeah!" and agreed to go to his house to view the plan. We were quite excited about "the business" but both had doubts.
We went along to a rally the following Sunday evening, enjoyed it but were a little uncomfortable with the format ie. applauding the speakers and hugging etc. However , at this point we were enthusiastic about getting our business started. We tried to convey to our upline that we wanted to get things moving as quickly as possible but he did not seem as enthusiastic as us. On Monday evening he came round to our house and got us started on making a list of our friends, relatives and work colleagues. He arranged to come back on the Thursday evening to teach us how to invite people to a "plan presentation" by telephone. Early on the Thursday evening he came round and said that the plans had all changed - he had to go somewhere else, but had arranged for a friend (I think it was his upline) to come and see us instead.
His friend did come round and talked for quite a while, putting us at ease. He then started to pressure us into making some phone calls. I felt very uncomfortable with this, but wanted to get a good start in the business. I had read some of the books and listened to tapes that we had been leant. I made about 6 phone calls and got various responses. Afterwards I felt really bad. I felt that I had been rude and abrupt with people. I felt that we were going to lose friends because of this. We were reassured that we would not lose any friends, but I do think that people were offended.
I spent most all of that night (after our upline's friend had left) and all of the following Friday worrying about the phone calls that I had made. We had managed to get 4 people to agree to attend a presentation on the following Sunday. My wife and I decided that we would go to a Citizen's Advice Bureau to find out what we could about Amway and the networking business. They were closed today, so we were unable to do that. We went to the library and looked up some info on Networking and MLM. We were slightly reassured that there were a few books about the subject which seemed to say that the business did work and that there was nothing illegal about it.
Then when we got home I decided to look on the Internet to see if there was anything about Amway. I found your Web page. And I am so grateful to you that I did. Because of what we read, my wife and I decided that we were definitely not going to get involved with the business. I can't tell you how relived that has mad us feel. I have now phoned most of the people that we had persuaded to come to the presentation on Sunday (tomorrow) and told them that it is all off. Tomorrow I am going to go and tell our neighbour that we don't want anything to do with this business.
I would just like to say a big thank you to you for posting all of the information on your web page. I dread to think what sort of debt we would have gotten into if we had not read this. I would be interested to know if you were ever a part of any of these Amway networks. Did you get into any debt yourself or did you see from the start that there was something dody?
You must really not have much of a life to spend your time operating a site like this. I am a distributer and have to admit I did browse around on your site and have come to a conclusion. Obviously the people that have written articles here think Amway is a get rich quick plan with no or very little work. Fact is for the amount of work put in and all of the benefits you get out, there is no opportunity or business that compares. If more people understood what Amway is doing today and what the business is about, people would be much more educated in what technology is coming in the near future. The Amway sales and marketing plan is so sensible and simple if it is worked correctly. I will be one to admit there are distributers that don't follow certain rules and conduct, but if understood Amway in itself and the opportunity is the best. Just get the real facts and not opinions from quiters and people that want a hand out in life.
I'm glad to see that you are at least presenting both sides in your "responses" . But on the average your page is mostly devoted to the negative aspect. In no matter what ( ie job , buiness, entertainment etc). For a example look at music not everybody likes the same type of music as a matter of fact you will find that no matter what type there will be people who hate that type of music. What this is getting to is why not show both the positive and the negative . Even if you don't care for Amway you have to amit that people have gotten rich in it . And granted not every one does those that go for it 110% do ( lets face it some people realy don't have what it takes to succede ). A lot of people look at the plan and think get rich Quick IT IS NOT GET RICH QUICK . It is something that is going to take some effort. You will get out what you put in to it. Plus you must be willing to do all the steps if you don't don't expect to succede. Also I saw one letter in which the guy was saying " he had been in a couple of weeks and all he had done was look at some tapes and go to a meeting he still hadnt peddled any soap. a couple of things I don't know what he does for a living but let say he is a computer programer he more than likely spent 4 years in school learning how to do that didn't get any pay durning that time ( probly cost him 5-10 thousand dollars for the schooling ). But now wants to make many times more than that with out putting forth any effort in learing what we do lets be real it aint gonna happen . I guess my main point is this people are looking at this page and not gettting both sides .why not print both sides and let them decide? If you have any questions you can reach me at ***
Some family members recently joined the cult and I appreciate you making this ammunition available. Please keep up the good work.
It was interesting to read your articals. How can I get in to the suit? I was in AMsway. I still have hundreds of taps I could send you.
good work on all the unhappy people!!!
May-Be someday the lawsuits will be finished. and the truth will be out..
I was in a big lawsuit with AT& T for five (5)years only the lawers won..
for the people who hurt inside.. ask God for guidance.
I am A very "HAPPY" small Amway Distributor. Most of this does not sound like the Amway Business I am in.
Not everybody is happy with a ford. Ha?
May-be someday the bitterness will fade..
The is Just My Thoughts!!
You are an idiot. There really are more constructive things you could do with your time. Like get a life.
Thank you so much for maintaining this site. We were approached by some friends and attended a promotional meeting...I have never seen so many people use mouth spray before!! They must really have digestive/dental problems! That along with your info put me right off Amway! Thank you for saving me all the time, effort and money!
from, Someone who earns more than someone who has to meet 15 people a month and hope they become distributors....Pls do not publish my email address...thanks...
sot/dbr you putz. What is the purpose of your web page? Let others decide if they want to be successful. Speaking of, just how are you doing spiritually, financially and emotionally. Or are your dreams dictated by your wallet?
I have come back to your Amway page several times now and the more I read it, the angrier I get. I was in the Britt/Renfrow organization for four years and have nothing to show for it (although I must admit I did learn how to dream).
After reading through some of the materials you have here, a few things dawned on me. For instance, we had training meetings where only one couple was living off their Amway income. The rest still had jobs even though one of the DDs supposedly had a $12 million business. $12 m and still working? What gives?
I guess you learn to trust those above you so much that you forget that you are an independent human being who ought to be asking questions like who's getting all the money from the open meetings, training sessions, books, tapes, and the like.
My question though is that is it a given that the DDs in my upline were (are) a part of this scenario? Can I assume my DD got a cut of the tape and book money? My Emerald? My Diamond? And is it at the DD stage that distributors begin to learn about the "other" methods of making income?
It irks me to no end that all the time Bill Britt and Co. were pounding away at the virtues of having an Amway business. When I decided not to renew my distributorship this year, my DD said I should continue to go to meetings to stay in touch with the positive atmosphere. I tried to go back a few times, but I couldn't. For 4 years I heard about how only quitters and 'losers' (my word, not theirs) left the Amway business. It was no wonder I couldn't go to any meetings--I was now a branded loser! I had become that person that I and others silently pittied and made fun of: the person who quits Amway. I look back at how many people I must have insulted about not wanting to get involved. The names we called people who said 'no' to the plan. Egads, I'm getting sick to my stomach!
How prudent is it to copy some of the materials you have here and send it along to others who are still very much active in the business (and spending lots of money they don't have)? If the practices aren't as pervasive as your materials mention, would I be hurting the upline if I spread these things around?
Interesting web site and very informative. Please continue to post stuff as you get it, esp. re. the lawsuit against Britt/Yeager.
Hello, I am assuming that you are the person who put all the information in on Amway. Just want to say thanks for the information. I was resently approached and was very skeptic. the info I found was very helpful.
What I would really like to say to you is to evil and I can't see my self saying those types of things. But I must express myself, at least a little bit.
I briefly read the section on stats. I must say that you took some serious time to do all that work. It was quite impressive. However, I like to look at the overall picture myself. I look at all the major corporations in the US that do business with Amway(Coca-Cola, just one of the smaller ones!!) People like Newt Gingrige (house speaker) and Donald Trump publicly support Amway. Then I look at one petty little nobody like yourself trying to destroy what may be just simply HOPE to someone. People have made it from nothing to Diamond in this business. That is not something that has never happened. Now here is someone one their last leg of life and someone offers them the business. All of a sudden they may have a glimmer of hope that begins to make them feel alive again. Regardless of whether it is Amway of some other MLM, Amway and MLM's do offer hope to people. I could care less if they ever do the business or not. Sometimes people get hope from just the plan and the excitement, which gives them enough to get back on their feet again. The reason I say this is that I speak from experience. Recently my father bumped into a former distributor. He hadn't seen him in years. They spoke for awhile catching up on lost time. He had met some pretty tough times in his life. Things had begun to recover, but he told my dad that if it weren't for seeing the business when he had seen it, and just the constant feeling of hope in his life that someday it would be better, he probably would have committed suicide. Although he has never built a business and probably never will (he told my dad), the business created just enough hope to keep him going through some of the toughest parts of his life.
Why do I tell you this? Not to try and touch you and make you get all soft and try and change your position(you are obviously are steadfast there) but, just to let you know where I stand and how I feel. I told you that I don't want to tell how I really feel because it is evil but I think I can touch on it. First off, I feel strongly that you are basically destroying HOPE. I would like to list all the 4 letter words I could think of but that is basically useless. This really has very little to do with AMWAY. It has to do with HOPE and you are actively destroying it. You have no right to do what you are doing. It is my hope and prayer that you would stop. I will also pray for you to stop what you are doing, that you would not hurt to many people(yes believe it or not l'll pray for you) But, lastly I must say this that if you don't stop what you're doing, I pray that someday in some way you will pay for it. Sid, I do not know or your family. But based on what you're doing and the HOPE you are stealing, if I had the opportunity to know that you are going to hell and leaving your earthly life by way of buring to death in a fire, I would have a hard time finding any remorse for you, your family, and the evil by which you live. I'm sorry to say that but if you continue to do what your doing, I pray that you will pay dearfully and painfully for it.................and your family too.
Amway is and has always been nothing more than a business opportunity for those who wish to create an alternate source of income, that is, a source that doesn't depend on being employed by someone. It certainly has a business structure and system of payments that warrants scrutiny, but the courts have done that and declared it to be a legal form of doing business. In fact, all other MLM ventures are judged against the Amway model.
A lot of people have travelled the Amway universe, many to financial success, many many more only to pass through, fail, and return to their regular lives. There has been a lot of negative talk from the latter, blaming Amway and/or their upline for their failure...and not doubt that there are as many unscrupulous distributors out there as there are in any other business organization. The bad eggs out there are or were bad eggs in their jobs, which is unfortunate for themselves, their employers, their families, and ultimately, all of us, distributor and non-distributor.
But let's not denigrate the opportunity just because of different bents in philosophy. Is Amwaya pyramid? No, but it is structured similarly, and if that's all you see, then so be it.
Don't like doing business with your friends? Okay. Go right ahead and do business with someone you don't know and probably don't care about. But if your friend and someone you don't know opened competing small businesses across the street from each other, where would you shop and where would your friend want you to shop?
Don't like buying your own product? Fine. But if you're in the business and won't even use your own product, how can you ever expect anyone else to want to buy and use it? And I'll guarantee that the person who owns the local supermarket is doing his or her shopping at their own market rather than at their competitors.
Upset because you spent money (probably more than you should have) and didn't make any profit? I'm sorry for you, but you made the decision to spend, and maybe your expectations were too high. I, too, have spent far more than I have earned, but only because I have been timid about stepping up to the plate and keep swinging away.
Don't like going to meetings where there are lots of positive people who enjoy being together, and leaders who have sat where you sit and had to actually work at the business to be successful? Geesh!! Where did you ever get the idea that any business was a snap? Check the statistics and see what the odds are for the average new business to be successful.
Upset that your upline may be making good money running various meetings and business functions, and selling organizational tapes? Too bad! That, too, is a nice way to make money, and from experience I know that those functions and tapes are a better value than the average corporate output...but not if you aren't bothering to listen. And by the way, those books are available at any bookstore if you would rather spend your money there, but then maybe you and your upline aren't friends.
And speaking of books, what's wrong with wanting to think positive? Isn't there enough of the opposite out there for your reading and viewing pleasure? They're not as entertaining as a good novel or video, but they can have a much more influencing affect on your life.
One more thing. If you have been considing the Amway business and are checking out these pages for your final answer, you haven't been doing enough homework. These pages are an interesting place to do research, but they don't hold all the answers. If you are going to check out the "facts", isn't it fair to thoroughly look at the arguments of both sides before rendering a verdict?
You need to talk to those who are visibly successful in the business, those working their way to the top, and people like me who believe in the business, even though not particularly working very hard at it at the moment. Generally, people who get in the Amway business do so to create a better life for themselves and their families. Along the way, they discover that they have to help others do the same thing, and have multiple opportunities to associate with fine people who want to do the same. Not a bad trade-off for potential success, unless you're completely self-centered. People need people, like it or not.
HAVE READ SOME PAGES HERE/DISTRIBUTOR FOR 5 YEARS,STILL AT BEGINING LEVEL,I ATTEND FUNCTIONS,BUY TOOLS,I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE SO VENGEFUL,AMWAY HAS ONLY IMPROVED THE LIVES OF MY FAMILY.NOT BECAUSE OF MY UPLINE BUT BECAUSE OF BETTERING MYSELF,NOT WAITING FOR A HANDOUT OR SOMEONE TO KICK OFF OR WAITING FOR LAWSUITS TO HELP YOU MAKE IT THRU LIFE.THE ONLY CULT I SEE IS LOVE THY NEIGHBOR,IF ANYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS THEN THEY NEED TO CHECK OUT THE CULT THEY ARE PARTICIPATING IN. THIS COUNTRY NEEDS SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN,THE POLITITIONS ARE CROOKS,PRIESTS ARE RAPING CHILDREN,PARENTS ARE ABUSING THEIR CHILDREN,TEENS ARE KILLING FOR TENNIS SHOES,ABORTION HAS KILLED MORE THAN ALL THE WARS,AND WE ARE WASTING OUR TIME TALKING ABOUT A CORPORATION THAT HAS ONLY TRIED TO IMPROVE LIFE,SEEMS TO ME THAT SOMEONE IS HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THE SUCCESS OF SOME PEOPLE,THAT DOESNT SUPRISE ME,IF SOME PEOPLE CANT HAVE IT THEY WANT TO TAKE IT OFF OF OTHERS.PRETTY SAD,THEN THEY CLAIM THEY ARE ONLY TRYING TO WARN PEOPLE.I WONDER,IF THEY WIN THE SUIT,HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL THEY HELP,NOT ANYONE IM SURE.PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE ONLY AFTER ONE THING,I HOPE YOU ARE GETTING SOMETHING OUT OF ALL THIS NOT JUST SELF SATISFACTION. AFTER ALL THAT WONT HELP YOU 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON!!!
Wow! You really have done your homework!!! I'm completely awestricken. You aren't just another disgruntled Amway distributer... you are on a mission! No, a quest! I shudder to think what might have happened to you had you put this kind of time, effort, and energy into your Amway business. Sounds like you got out in the nick of time... by the hair of your chinny- chin-chin. Just think! Had you done so, It would have worked and then you wouldn't have anything to grouse about, today.
I am in even more awe that you had a business that earned a profit for you in the first year. I've owned 4 pawnshops and not a single one of them broke even until the second year! You must be a really terrific business man! And here I'm considered one of the nation's leading experts in pawnshops. Now, that just goes to show you how dumb people are in general! I wrote the only book that has been widely published and distributed world wide about the subject, but I had no idea that a person such as yourself existed on the face of this earth... make a business pay in only one year? Gee, maybe you could give me a few tips on how you did that and I could share them with my readers at the next publication. Feel free to e-mail your secrets to me.
And to show you how dumb I really am, I got in the Amway business! I didn't know Amway was a scam. Here I am cashing $4,000 PV checks like a silly fool. I threw away $6 bucks a shot on those tapes when I could have gone down to the bookstore and purchased N. Hill, D. Carnagie, R. Schuller, etc. for only $12.95 for one tape and $24.95 for a set of two tapes. AND, to top that off, I spent $120 for Leadership when I could have had the same thing from Dale Carnagie, Tony Robbins, Tommy Hawkins, et al for only $2,000 for a weekend. Where has my head been? Talk about DUH!
Thanks so much for streightening me out on these matters.
However, I see a slight problem here. For some distributers, Amway is their ONLY hope. Without that hope, they have nothing. Paul says in Corinthians 13, there are only three things that mean anything in this world. "Faith, Hope, and Love... and the greatest of these is love. Proverbs says, "Man without vision shall parish." I just pray that a distributer who has turned to Amway as their very last resort in life, doesn't read your hate e-mail and steal their dream. Some might even decide life isn't worth living. But, perhaps you don't see that as being any concern of yours. Hate seldom does. Too bad.
If this buisness is so bad how come their are all of these Millionaires in the buisness? And in this buisness u are not forced to buy _ANYTHING_ NOTHING!!!!! You don't have to spend a cent on it if you don't want. This is the biggest waste of fucking space on the net
I am really glad that I found your page. I have been an Amway distribbutor for nearly a month. I have attended one seminar and rally - too weird! I couldn't understand why everyone was giving standing ovations to these people who appeared on the stage to give us "motivational" speeches. I should have listened to my husband and to my "gut" feelings, both of which told me that this business was not right for me. Thank goodness, I have only signed up one other person, and I will now make sure that she reads your page. I will feel a lot less guilty if I let her know what I have read here. She can make up her own mind from there. I have to tell you that the last two presentations I have seen (one by my DD and one by an "Emerald" were the most sexist, materialistic pieces of crap that I have been exposed to in a long time! I don't know what your background is with Amway, but you are providing a real service to those of us who have been sucked in to this business by trusted friends.
I want my sponsors to see your page. I think that they are sincere individuals who believe that they are going to make a lot of money at this. Who know - maybe they will. All I know is that I am out of the Amway business right now! Thanks again for all of your research on this topic.
I am postive that you have save us not only money but our valuable time. We paid the money so we are staying in, just to use the personal shopper for specific purchases that are bargains, it is driving them nuts. oh, they finally got around to introducing us to the tapes over the phone and wanted to come by and drop off 2 tapes only 6.00 each that will help us get our business going. also, he explained that this is the system, and 2 would be delivered to us each week. We declined. We havent attended any meetings or anything.
Some Lady finally came by to show my wife how to order, etc. We had given them names before we realized what was going on, but we have refused to go with them and so far no one has called us to question our involvement. It really is a shame and has turned me off to so many other MLM schemes, just got one Emailed to me, for On Line Service, Powernet, heard of that one yet.
Any way thanks for your help,
I have been researching numerous Amway articles lately. It seems a very close friendship has been damaged due to the Amway tactics. When my friends got into Amway I told them "I hope this does not jepordize our friendship". Another time I said I disagree with Amway's "marketing tactics". I had hoped this would be enough. I recently listed a lot they wanted to sell(I am a *** agent). At that time I listened for an hour about the joys of Amway and how much money I could save and how my son and his wife should get involved. I left with a sick feeling in my stomach. I am considering giving up the listing just to save my own sanity. That's my Amway horror story.
Hi well I was wondering if you knew if people who have decided that Amway's business practices are not up to there standards could get a refund on all the tapes the bought(they are still wrapped) like you can with the products. By the way after I read this article and talk to some people within Amway I decided to leave. Although they tried to discredit many of the claims(cult, etc.) but no one could answer me on the tapes scam. It seemed to fishy. If I am going to have my own business I want it to be something that I have complete confidence in. Whether some of the rumors are true or not I don't my own business to suffer from others poor business practices
Dear Schwartz, I am a new Internet user so please forgive my inexperience. I am an Amway distributor. I find your forum informative. I was only able to look at the cult aspect tonight. I found nothing to disagree with. However by all definitions and examples given I was reminded of the other cult that I was in. It was called the medical education system. It is late but I would be happy to tell you about it sometime. I recognized it for what it was and used the system to attain my goal. Amway is the same. In fact a great many businesses are the same. Most people I know who have at least a six figure income had to become focused and fanatical to achieve. The Amway system provides an arena in which I could choose to become fanatical or not. I will read your other areas with interest. Have a great day.
Thank You for providing an invaluable service to all us Netizens!
I really enjoy your site and have a question regarding the Amway report. Why doesn't this information hit the news media? I know that Amway isn't the greatest business in the world. I certainly wouldn't buy or sell their products. Could it be because Mr. Devous also owns the Orlando Magic that Amway doesn't get much bad press?
Your page is great work and has probably saved me a large amount of greif by giving me REAL and QUICK answers to questions I dont think would ever be answered by my Amway contact. Thank God for the internet and thank God for people like you who are alive enough to care enough to put all on the table for all to see clearly in the light of truth. Thank You : )
"...it get's people together in a common cause. It surrounds them with social support. It provides them with charismatic leadership that gives them guidelines for living..."
Now I ask you. What is so wrong with that? I can sum the above in 3 simple words. People Helping People.
Yes, I am an Amway distributor. Not an active one but my reasons for being inactive have nothing to do with the practices of my organization (Bill Britt) or Amway Corp. I have never seen where they mislead me as to the ungodly costs of this business. In fact, I've been told quite a number of times by both my direct upline and by others that it isn't cheap. But it's cheaper than starting from scratch with my own business. I know because that's what I'm doing right now! I know that's contradictory but it's also irrelivant. Whether I chose to persue my Amway business or not, I'll say one thing about them. They are solid. They, from what I can tell, treat their employees right which is more than 95% of the rest of corporate America can say! And if they were a pyramid then how would it be possible that the government would allow them to stay in business for over 40 years making close to 6 billion? If you ask me, corporate america is a pyramid. I work for OshKosh B'Gosh, Inc. presently. The President is a gentleman by the name of Doug Hyde. This chump sits up in a plush office in Wisconsin making bags of money (might I add, he inherited the job) while I bust my butt making not much over minimum wage. And I don't know one employee that doesn't dispise B'Gosh for their greed.
But to be quite honest, I applaud what you've done. Especially our web pages. They are concise and to the point and present the information in a simple yet easily readable manner.
Nothing, no matter what it is, is perfect. Amway is no exception to that. They have their faults. But I encourage you to stick to the more legitimate faults rather than attempting to portray them as a massive following of Jim Jones wannabe's. There are good people in Amway who've done good things for alot of people.
Keep up the good work but be honest and true to the best of your ability.You are doing a great service for humanity--finally some attempt at objective data
If I wanted an education on cults I wouldn't look under the category of AMWAY, and I certainly would not single out a few disgruntled x- Amway distributers
I spent some time on your hate pages. I presume this means you failed at building an Amway business. Best wishes for finding something worthwhile, uplifting, and profitable to undertake.
I just ran across your amway page and thought I would mail this to you. It is a rehash of an essay that I wrote for my Business Marketing class at ***** State University. Take a look at it and post it as you see fit.
The Psycology of Shopping
Recently I was approached by an Amway Representative. It was all innocent enough as usual with the Amway Corporation. It started off with the usual "what do you want from life" type questions, and the answers that you want to hear about how much money you can make. I had heard the entire lecture/demonstration before and everytime somebody approaches me with a "mystery" new business opportunity I already know it's Amway, but I am always interested in what the representative has to say so I go ahead and meet him/her on my terms. Coffee at Denny's or something like that. No function with a few people, or big function with placed people. You know the ones. They sit at strategic places and say things like, "This is great! I wish I had seen this before," to spark interest in others. No, I always meet them on a one on one basis, and just listen, and answer accordingly like I have never heard the plan before. This is mostly to see if they change the tactics at all.
Anyway back to the point. The most recent time I was approached I listened to the "system" and a few things came to me. I am a business major in college right now. Upper level Economics and Marketing so I know a little about the numbers, and a little about advertising. I won't bore anyone with those, because they have been run to death. I want to discuss something that most people just being introduced to Amway functions are not told, not because it needs to remain hidden, but because it is something nobody thinks to bring up. I have gone to a few rallies and big functions as well. Once again only on my terms, in my town, on a day that I was not doing anything else. I also once went for research for my Marketing class. This thing nobody mentions is the Psychology of Shopping.
In the United States one of the biggest businesses is stores. They are everywhere. From the small mom and pop corner drug store to the giant urban malls. The reason these are so prevelent is because people like to shop. Sears / Roebuck started their business by mail order catalog. The same way Amway does their shopping. But as demand rose and profits rolled in the founders of Sears had a great idea. Instead of people ordering goods through the mail they could go to the store and actually see, touch, smell, and hear the products. Premade clothes could be tried on before being purchased. It was a great and wonderous thing to go into a large store and actually see all that stuff to be had, instead of seeing pictures in a book. The store was successful and more were opened. This lead in part to the mini-mall boom of the 70's and 80's. Now giant retailers rely on the same principles but have streamlined it to suit the fast paced world of the 90's. The test runs were in the 80's, but it fits more with the 90's.
One of the things I want to discuss are endcaps. An endcap is the thing you see at the end of an isle that has items highlighted. These items are usually sale items, but are occasionally too large, or overstocked. How many times to shoppers go through an isle to pick up items and then see an endcap item and grab that too? A lot. Retailers know that this is called impulse buying. You see something standing out away from everything else and pick it up. You may or may not need it, but you will buy it.
This impulse buying is why there are magazines, gum, cigarettes, and items like that at the checkout stands. Run this senario through your head. You are at the grocery store and have to wait in line. You see the latest issue of Magazine, pick it up and start reading. Your line moves forward and you buy the magazine because you haven't finished the article yet. Better yet, you see gum and grab it just because it was there. You didn't need the gum, but you bought it because it looked good.
Another type of impulse buying is going to the store to get tomatoes, fresh food that you can't get from Amway, and walking out with tomatoes, milk, bread, ice cream, and a magazine. You saw the ice cream and couldn't resist, got to have milk to go with the ice cream, you remembered you were out of bread, and the list goes on. People shop this way. It is actually this type of behavior that keeps stores in business.
Now lets analyze this using Amway. You cannot. The best, closest example is when you are browzing through the Amway catalog and see something else you want. Now we have the brand problem. Amway carries only X brand of an item. X brand may be cheaper, but you like Y brand much better. You write X brand down on your order anyway because you are in Amway. You do this a few more times and jot down the total. You can't afford everything so you erase a few items. Write a check and send it off to the distributor. Now you get up and go to the store to get milk to wash down your Amway breakfast bar. You come back from the store with tomatoes, peanut butter, crackers,..., you get my drift. Now you have just given money to Amway and the store. The Amway stuff will take up to a week, but the store stuff you have now. Not only that but you managed to order shaving cream from Amway, did not get it in time, so you had to buy some at the store. Now you have more then you need. An Amway distributor will tell you that you just need to learn new buying habits. Well that is not going to work, because you still have to go to the store to get perishable goods, so will always be doing the same thing.
Okay now that food is out of the way, lets talk about clothes. Lets say that you want a new outfit. You have a choice, you can go to the Amway catalog or go to the department store. You go to Amway because it is cheaper. You find a pair of slacks to match the shirt from page whatever. There is a cool pair of shoes that you want. Oh yea and while turning the pages you see a tie that would go with the entire thing. You place the order and you will wait a week or so this time because no distributor keeps clothes in stock. The clothes come in and the shirt does not fit. You guessed wrong on your collar size or wrote it wrong, either way you have to send it back to get the right size. In the process you realize that the tie accually blows, so you send that back to to get a refund. All and all it has taken you two weeks to get an outfit that fits and works together. Sure you saved some money, but you have just waisted a lot of time.
You decide you need another outfit. This time you go to the store. You walk in and grab a shirt, pants, tie, and shoes. This time you go all out and get a sport coat and tie clip as well. You go in to the fitting room, wait a minute Amway doesn't have a fitting room, and try on the clothes. It's that shirt collar again. You ask the nice girl at the counter to grab you the same shirt with a 1/2" larger collar. Perfect. You walk out and you look good. You go to the counter and fork out some cash. Then you walk out of the store feeling pretty good about yourself because you just got a new outfit and it only took an hour including drive time. Sure it was more expensive, but you have it now.
These are just a few examples of the way we shop and like to shop. Most people would prefer to shop this way as opposed to the Amway way if they stop to think about it. If considering getting into the Amway thing I would suggest stopping for a little bit, review the data, take a look at how you like to shop, and take a business and marketing course, by the way the latest Amway representative used this against me saying that if these teachers were so smart why were they no rich. I asked my professor in economics and he said because he wanted to be a professor, not a stressed out stock broker. There is something to be learned here. It is not the money that matters more then doing what you like to do. For example, I would rather be broke and do something I like any day, then be rich and hate what I do.
It's me again, essay boy. Just a few more notes while I am sitting here at work (YES A REAL JOB). Some things came to me as I was getting paid to look at a computer screen.
The first thing that came to me is something I learned in accounting class.
A Sole Proprietorship is a company owned by one entity. He/She/Entity is fully responsible for debts incured by the sole proprietorship.
This is why Amway Corp is so successful. Amway Distributors are not employees of Amway. They are in business for themselves and therefore sole proprietorships. If the distributors happen to lose all their money for functions, SOT, and so forth, then AmWay Corp has nothing to worry about, because they are simply doing business with the distributor. They already have the money for the startup kit and all those tapes and products bought. In cash thank you.
Now for those boring numbers I wasn't going to give you last time.
I'd like to see some actual real financial statements from some of those distributors. Not foolish Amway ones, but I am talking legit GAAP standards financial statements. I know this is pretty much impossible because since Amway and the miscellaneous distributor enterprises are private companies they do not need to release this data. They only need to include disclaimers like the average distributor makes $65 a month.
Lets look at this. I joined up with Amway years ago. I know I was bad. Really I just joined to get a discount on products, till I realized my buying habits were not going to work, and the usual tactics to get me to show the plan to others. The startup package was $130 at the time. Okay great. SOT was $5.00 a week. So now I am looking at an initial investment of $135 and $5 a week right. Okay great. Cheap business opportunity. Sounds like a great way to save money and make money if I happened to stumble on someone that wanted to save money.
Now is where the the problems kick in. The upline wants you to show the plan as much as possible because they make more money with more people in the system of course.
So you go show the plan. Figure in 2 to 3 hours for that. At least once a week. Lets say I make $10 an hour. More then most people wrangled into the plan, but much less then the people distributors claim are in it, Doctors, Lawyers, Etc. So that costs me $20-$30 bucks a week in time to show the plan. Now costs are up to $100-$140 a month, just for working the plan once a week and SOT. That is without the $200 commitment to your own consumption. I don't know about you but I don't go through $200 in nonperishables a month.
So tack on the $200 commitment we are up to $300-$440 a month in overhead so far, with just me in the system. Cut out the SOT after a few weeks, still takes four weeks for them to stop. This saves $20 a month. Down to $280-$420 a month so far for $200 worth of non-perishables. Oh but since we are getting are BV in well I guess we get a nice $6 check back from Amway. Lets go through my financial statement really quick.
Assets Assets $0,000 (note: yes that is a $0. You cannot count the startup pack as an asset because it is near impossible to get rid of.) Expenses Connsumables $200 SOT $20 Sales Expenses $140 (Average cost in time for showing the plan once a week.) Equity -$360
If any bank saw a negative equity number on a legit business they would shut it down. And fast, unless you started showing a profit. That showing a profit is why Distributors later on do weird things with the numbers and use the Amway financial forms when showing the plan. They mess things up. It never shows you what banks, financial institutions, and legitimate big investors need to know to make the other financial equations work. Like Gross Margin Percentage.
So lets go back to the beginning in cast you forgot. Last year (1995) Amway did Est 6.5 Billion in sales. Steep number. They claim there are 1.5 million distributors right now. Thats $18,000,000 now multiply that by 10 for each of the one in ten that admittadly drop out. Thats $180,000,000 million in sales each year minimum if each distributor only sold the startup package to one person in the entire year. The same startup packages that once sold to you to start your own business that could go under at NO LOSS to Amway. That is why the company as a whole is successful. The Tapes and things is what makes Dexter successful.
Tell you what. With a little budgeting, some perseverance, and a college education you can make just as much money. It's called investments. Start small. Mutual funds, CD's, things like that. Stocks even (at least you only lose what you invested and not told to sell your TV, House, or drop out of college). I'm buying a $100,000 house this month. I am not even out of college yet. Been working for less then a year now in an honest job. And I still have my self respect.
One of the posts you had said $700 a month after expenses is what he is making. I make twice that after expences in the Real Estate Market a month.
God Bless You. You saved my life (& money).
My next door neighbour just invited me to an Amway party.
I told him I already knew about it and I was busy. What I didn't say was that my friend attributed the breakdown of her marriage to Amway etc.
The guy seemed really embarrassed, and I'd like to help him, but gently as a don't want to offend, and I credit him for giving it a try.
Any way, just to say thanks for your informative information. If you have any ideas about how to help those who have got 'trapped' in the amway thing but perhaps would be happier out, I'd appreciate anything you've got.
Thanks for having such an informative web page. I have been approached, and not having heard much about Amway, good or bad, I was getting seduced. After exploring your page, I know this is not for me!
Hio, as a recently signed up distributor in the U.K., i have found your pages very interesting, it will help me and my partner make up our minds before we delve too deeply into Amway.
For my part i fully appreciate your arguement/demolition of the business but presently i find the books enlightening/motivational as they are intended and a great help in other areas of my life. The tapes are harder to justify on a cost basis but nevertheless in a business such as direct selling surely neccessary when one needs a boost(conventional boosts arrive from the boss).
The products are expensive initially admittedly, i find them good quality and certainly in the long run cheaper than the other alternatives in the U.K. presently.
The meetings are enjoyable as well as informative and moral boosting and good value when compared to like elsewhere in Great Britain. The retail/bonus checks are clearly explained in advance and worked out on a minimum basis, the logic is sound.
Yes it takes time and effort to build this business, that is made very clear at all the plans i have been to so far, very few get involved without a good idea of what they are joining.
Perhaps some of what you re-iterate is true in the U.S. but on balance at this moment in time we will stick with it.
I just wanted to, first, thank you for providing this information. I was about to go to a meeting tonight to talk to one of these "succesful" people out here in Vancouver, Washington.
I never wanted to sell "Amway products", but the offered lots of brand name items and even told me that I could purchase new cars and trucks from the manufatures at $50 over factory cost. IS this all BS? Is there any money to be made in the retail of these brand name items?
I just listened to the "overnight packet" tapes. Let me tell you, all these tapes talked about was being rich, and about the "diamonds" spending lots of money. I have to admit, its very attractive, but I new nothing about the selling of "tools" from the upper line greed mongers. Well, I guess they get the last laugh cause they are rich, and I am not.
The money isn't the real issue. It's the time you get back. Time with family, time to relax. I guess I'll have to try something else. Any ideas? :)
Dear Mr Schwartz,
I've done a lot of thinking since last night when I spent 4 hours reading through 90% of the correspondence on your web site. I am a new distributor (three months) in the Britt line of sponsorship. I was shocked to discover this morning that in those 3 months I had spent $1600 on Amway! I have also received my first PV check, for $7.14. My husband is not interested in Amway, but I have been asking him to come to meetings with me because (1) my sponsor is convinced that if he just 'sees The Plan' he will come around and (2) I really truly value his opinion and I wanted his input. Well, he isn't interested in attending a meeting, but he did download a lot of information from the net for me on Sunday, which I spent all afternoon reading. Eventually I found your site and have read everything here. These are (for the record and the vast pool of data you'r ecollecting!) my thoughts:
(1) Cult activities
A fine line exists between enthusiasm and fanaticism. The unquestioning loyalty seemingly required for one's upline and line of sponsorship bothers me. When someone acts in such as way as to gain my loyalty and respect, then it is freely given. So far no-one in my upline has demonstrated any reason for me to think them any wiser or more far-sighted than anyone else; in fact, they have not bothered to get involved with me at all, other than to nag me about contacting a certain MD on my list. Although our local open meetings (several lines of sponsorship mingling because Amway relatively new in area) are fairly sedate, the screaming and preaching I have heard on the Britt line sponsorship tapes has turned me off. When I have discussed this with my sponsor, he tells me that I will 'learn to love Bill Britt.' The change in my sponsor's personality over the last few months is rather frightening in itself. He has separated himself from his friends and from contact with the rest of the world and spends all his time in long earnest telephone conversations with his sponsor (in another city in the neighboring state) or listening to the tapes, which he quotes from all the time. When I try to discuss my concerns with him he does not really listen; he merely quotes some anecdote to me. It is frustrating. Were I one of his parents, I would be extremely concerned. He recently chased a man he does not know into the restroom in the library to get his number so he could call him about The Business (the man was Indian and as you all know, "we're going into India soon so those guys are really important!").
(2) The System
I have been attending open meetings, reading the books and listening to the tapes (I am on standing order, and while I was told it was voluntary, I was also told that I would not succeed in Amway unless I was on standing order). I missed a recent rally because my husband and I decided that the icy roads (following the huge ice storms that hit the South a few weeks ago) were too dangerous. I have not received my ticket money back yet. I was also admonished because 'if you miss 2 functions you're basically out of Amway.' My sponsor has been trying to teach me how to lie to people on the telephone trick them into letting him call them. The first time I did it I almost got sick; if Amway is so great, why can't we be honest and tell people about this great opportunity up front? I have been gently corrected each time I try to make a contact and given words to use that have been proven to 'work.' I'm not going to do it anymore - it sickens me. Last Thursday I had my first person come to an open meeting. My sponsor had two people. At the end of the meeting, as I turned to my friend and smiled at her, I heard him say "Looks good, doesn't it?' to his two. It was chilling - and I was chastized later for not having said the same myself.
Most of the tapes seem like nothing more than a series of anecdotes about how this couple or that struggled against evil brothers-in-law and that ilk and succeeded. I have yet to hear anything that concretely tells me how to build a successful business. I buy my books at the bookstore, thus frustrating my upline, I'm sure. My sponsor has been sharing books with me, but when I mentioned to him that I was reading Covey's 'Seven Habits..' and that he could borrow it if he liked, he responded "Oh, I have to check whether that's on our book list. If Bill Britt hasn't read it, then I don't want to read it." So much for the famous open Amway mind.
(3) The Products
Of the 3 people sponsored by my sponsor (who has contacted at least 60 people), I have been far and away the most active in purchasing Amway products and using them. So far, I have found the prices to be much higher than I expected, the quality to be fairly average, and the sacrifice of choice and convenience really irritating. I found your price comparisons (and those of others) very interesting. I really have tried to convince myself that the PV in all this stuff makes up for the disappoinment, but it doesn't. Has anyone else ever noticed that the toilet paper is wound looser on the roll, so you get less? I know - I bought a case, 96 rolls, and have had ample time to study and test each roll's performance. My husband hates the stuff, along with the roughness of the boxed tissues. And when I receive things late, or the wrong thing is sent (which has happened several times and I have only been in 3 months!) I am not impressed.
I am a bit amused by the assertion that the Amway Personal Shoppers Catalogue can compete with, for instance, Lands' End (featured in a small picture as the competition). I can tell you from vast personal experience that Lands' End has a large, varied stock at excellent prices. And although all you Amway men may dress from that catalogue, in all the time I have been to meetings (several before I joined, so at least 4 months) I have yet to see ONE female Amway person dressed in any dress from that catalogue. Maybe the rather meager nylon hose, but not the clothing!
(4) The Blatant Sexism
Hardly enyone ever mentions this, but as a 35-year-old woman with an excellent education and a firm idea of my own worth (imparted to me by the most excellent of parents), I have searched in vain among the successful of Amway for a real role model. But without fail the women I have heard from on the tapes and at meetings are all busy submitting to their husbands and doing all the paperwork, the product pick-up and taking care of the kids. I asked my sponsor about this and he looked at me like I had two heads. There is so much of 'the little woman is such a great help to me in building the business' that sometimes I want to scream. When Dotty Hamlett admonished me "Do whatever it takes girls [to help your man]" I almost ripped the tape out of the stereo. Do we really need this? I love, respect and honor my husband, and I _do_ submit to his judgement often, but I am not about to become a mere appendage. God (a favorite of Amwayers) gave me a brain and expects me to use it. On a related point, I was really started to become worried about whether to ask my gay friends to these meetings; after all, no-one ever displays any role models for them! I saw one letter here from an irate Amway dist who has two gay couples in his downline. I was so glad to see it and I wish them all well. Even though he was mad at Sidney, he sounded like a great guy.
I was raised as a Christian and have a deep and abiding relationship with my Creator. However, I don't want or need to be preached at or to during a business meeting. My sponsor made the colossal mistake of giving me a Bill Britt rally tape to listen to before I got in. He was sure he had lost me. And he almost did. But he told me "You'll learn to love Bill Britt" and "He doesn't talk about God on the regular tapes." Oh really? I must need a hearing aid then brother. I wasn't all that thrilled either when Danny Snipes started screeching about not being descended from a monkey - it really seemed to me to rather off the point. I mean, these are supposed to be motivational tapes to help one build a business, not to spread one person's personal agenda.
(6) The responses here of pro-Amway persons
Hmmm. A few are thoughtful and have points worth considering. But the bulk of them seem rather strident and frankly, until you all can defend and discuss your points without inanely quoting the party line, I'm not convinced. We've heard all the stuff that comes out of meetings - do you have any of your own original thoughts to share, or are you simply able only to regurgitate? And, considering how many of you prate on about God, some of the language is shocking :) Also, I find I much prefer the letters from those able to spell and use grammar - as an editor, my 'wince neuron' has a rather low setting. Some of the letters from those supporting Amway are, alas, almost impossible to read. Most of all, I pity those who cannot accept that people who have tried to do this and have decided not to continue are not quitters, losers, etc etc etc ad nauseum. Try, please, to have some compassion; to display some of the love and acceptance and 'people helping other people' goodwill that you claim is part of this business. Until you do so you only prove that much of what you say is merely rote. Or that you are afraid to really think about all this.
I think that about covers it. I also want to say this: in this country, and for this all of you should be extremely thankful, we are allowed to speak our minds freely and to discuss subjects in public forums such as this one. Any one of you who _REALLY_ believes in Amway ought to be grateful for people sharing both positive and negative experiences, because without access to the opinions of those against an idea, the opinions of those for it mean nothing. Think about it. Oh, and flame away if you like - I'll survive. But please, endeavor to use complete sentences and correct spelling.
One last thing: the verb 'to edify' as it is used in America today does not mean what all of you memorizers and repeaters think it does. Although there is an archaic sense of the word that has to do with building (of both the concrete, ie buildings, and the abstract, ie faith), in general usage, it means to teach or instruct someone, often on the subject of morality. If you don't believe me, look it up. I hope I've helped to edify you somewhat :)
Still Deciding About Amway
I just visited your web site on multilevel marketing.All I have to say is can't you find someting better to do with your time? And upon what facts do you base your findings? Are you getting bolth sides of the story or just yours and a few other bitter people?Perhaps you could find your time better spent reaserching gang cults (you know the ones that kill each other and often times innocent people in the process) not christians who choose to involve christ in all aspects of thier lives (you know the honest working people who paid the taxes that made your web page possable)!
I just want to strongly encourage you to keep up you site and help warn people of the dangers of this ridiculous scam/cult/?.. Amway is Dangerous!
Thanks for saving me time on hours of research. Went to one meeting with "sponser" & did not hear one product mentioned. He has been "in" for 9 mons. & may be devoted to his "upline". If it sounds to good to be true it usually is.
Thanks again your info is worth the price of the hardware and software I am using & more.
AMWAY: The Untold Story (What your friendly soap peddler doesn't know or won't tell you...)
An old friend tried to sell me on this. I was almost convinced. It's not that I am gullible or anything but they have a great way of presenting their side. Regardless of how good anything of this nature sounds I will still investigate the company and claims before they get ANY money from me.
Your web site saved me hours of research. Especially the price comparisons. I did not see any significant savings and the information you collected confirmed this.
I feel sorry for the guy that presented me with this. I know he has the ambition to make some money selling the products. I don't think he will make any substantial amount and it certainly won't pay for his time.
This poor guy has spent all his free time on business opportunities. He used to do carpet cleaning which I feel is a very respectable side job. I am worried that he is going to burn himself out because he certainly had taken into this like a cult.
Basically he is a good guy so I want to help him. I don't think he has Internet access so I have printed out about 100 pages about Amway and MLM schemes many of which are from your site. I am attending an Amway meeting tonight and will present him with the information afterwards. He knows the type of information I have for him and is willing to receive it.
I hope he takes the time to read it right after the meeting. It will certainly dispell all motivation obtained from the seminar. Most likely it will cause him to leave Amway and never try the MLM stuff again. Maybe he is not as good of a person that I thought he was and he will use the information to better persuade prospects (probably not).
BTW, I am attending the meeting with the hopes that I can evaluate the way the information is presented. The content is irrelevant but if the presentation is as good as I have heard I expect to learn a lot.
BIG THANKS. Write back if you want. You may use this email as you see fit providing you don't disclose my name or email address.
Glad you've gone to the trouble to organize and present all this information.
I sat through an AMWAY presentation last night, so I figured today on using Compuserve/WWW to research whether the "New AMWAY" is all-that-new. I received a presentation proposing the 'personal consumption' model, without any mention of the 10-customers requirement. My presenter also heavily implied that what I would be purchasing would be from Fortune 500 products, not Amway products. Once I reviewed the materials, I was immediately suspicious that what was proposed to me personally was not really in sync with the materials, since the materials still seemed bent towards retail sales.
I have to tell you that the salemanship was very good. My husband and I were tempted to pursue this. BUT of course after today's quick research in the light of day, I am relieved to feel that I narrowly escaped any association with this organization.
Only problem is trying to figure out what to do with the friend who is trying to sponsor me. He and his wife have just gotten started, so of course they're really gung-ho. But I really care about them and without insulting them, how can I convince them that they've been conned, and in the long run they'll lose less money if they get out fast?
I am in the nightclub promotion biz. Another promoter--I met him when I was a bouncer at a club he was promoting a few years ago--has been looking into money making schemes for about six months now. Recently, he called me up to meet a "guy who is making a grip of cash, and I need to check him out."
Well, the guy I "had to meet" is a gentleman by the name of ***.
*** is very successful in the business. He makes something around $300,000 a year. I figured, well, if he's making those kinds of digits, I'll check him out to see what he had to say.
After an initial meeting at a closeby Starbuck's Coffee where *** briefly described (in little or no detail) what he was doing. He called it "Virtual Warehousing," and predicted that they would soon be looking at interactive television and the internet to start selling products, while eliminating the "middle man." There was a brief mention of the Amway Corp toward the end of his mini-talk. I recall him saying that his company uses Amway as a distributor, much like Larry's Market uses Associated Grocer as a distributor for their products. He went on to say that Amway does business with MCI and Coca Cola.
I was invited by my fellow promoter to come over to his house for a presenation that Joe was giving. I went there with my girlfriend ... they seemed very adamant about me bringing her along.
*** went on for about an hour and a half, talking about the consumer trend in America, and that "you can either be consumed by the wave, or ride the wave and profit from it." The last twenty minutes or so was spent on discussing the Amway Corporation, and how his company has nothing to do with Amway other than using it as a distributor for products. Again he used the Larry's Market/Associated Grocer analogy.
After that, my fellow promoter kept trying to book follow up meetings with me. I did my own research inbetween meetings. One of my sources was your web site, so I'd like to thank you at this time for putting it together. Based on what I've reviewed on your site, materials I have looked up in the media, and based on the fact that much of what you have presented has been verified by people I personally know that are in the business, I have decided not to participate in this business opportunity.
From my research, I have concluded that Amway is probably a legitimate company. It appears to me that certain distributors high in the food chain of these "pyramids" are of questionable character.
I could go on for pages about my very last conversation about Amway I had with *** and my promoter friend, but I'm quite sure you've heard it all before. I don't think *** is a bad guy, to tell you the truth ... he's more personable than all other upper food chian Amway distributors I have met. However, I have a problem with some of the people in his upline claiming to be friends with Bill Britt. I'm not saying one is guilty by association, but ...
I'm especially glad I researched this whole thing about tapes and other "motivational" tools. As a promoter, I'm able to crunch numbers fairly well, and I know that someone is making a grip of cash of these things whether they like to admit it or not. Especially these rallies! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how much potential money there is to make off these things ...
Well, sorry for the diatribe I have mailed to you. Isn't this internet thing strange? Writing long babblings to someone you don't even know? (hehehe)
When I was newly involved in Amway's Worldwide Group about 1 1/2 yrs ago I read your postings in the newsgroup. At the time I started to question some things, but thought that I was in a "special" group where none of that bad stuff was happening.
I was wrong! Our sponser, who was great, dropped out and we were left with our upline Emeralds. Talk about an attitude problem!
Anyway, we are still unofficially distributors, but haven't ordered anything or talked to our sponsers in months. We're "non-persons" now that we aren't so active.
People used to always say the ones who quit just didn't try. Well, we were the "hard core" group--showing "the plan" several times a week. Showed to over 40 people in 5 months! We went to every meeting-often until 2 am, all functions, bought tapes, read books, etc etc and did our 300 personal pv each month. Now we are literally bankrupt (though I can't say it's all from Amway, but that was the final straw), our sponsers won't talk to us, and we're bad-mouthed all over. Not to mention the depression when you realize all those dreams are not going to come true.
Are you interested in the complete story? Also, I have some other info that may be of interest, but can't decide what all I should say. I tend to think some groups and people do ok in this, but we just couldn't handle the lies and brain washing in our particular group, though they are highly successful.
I look forward to reading your Web page more in depth....
I have been an Amway Distributor for about 10 years now, active, by definition, but by no means "building" the business. I have one person in my downline, others who have since quit. I have been both to Britt functions and to WWDB functions.
Now, having done considerable reading of your home page, I find ultimately that the negative things you have to say may be interesting to many, and no doubt in the case of some unscrupulous distributors true, but that I am not swayed to leave the business, or to label it a "scam" or "scheme".
Like most people, I am interested in a better life for myself and my family. And like a great many people, am very uncomfortable selling, sponsoring, and doing those things that I have learned are required if I am to be a successful distributor. Public speaking? Oh, my! Wear decent business clothing to a business meeting or function? Hey, I have five children and a job, so I don't have a lot of extra clothing. I make do with what I have got.
So why did I join Amway in the first place? Because someone I respected was in it, and I saw in the plan an opportunity to create something that could earn me some extra money. My line of sponsorship was in the WWDB organization, which is associated with Britt. And I was encouraged to go to the regular functions, because I would: 1)Learn how to make the business work, and 2)Associate with people who either were building the business, had already successfully built the business, or were just positive-thinking people looking for an opportunity.
By the way, being a positive-thinking person is not a crime, though I think some people think it is.
My upline has often said that I should do what it takes to make it to these functions, even the "major" functions, of which three are out of town. I have gone in the past, and will go again. They are a great way to associate, learn, and for some people (myself included), a chance to get away from the home grind. I have never been told that I will fail if I don't go, only that I will have a better chance to be successful.
Why don't I go ALL THE TIME? Because I don't want to, or don't have enough money, and aren't building the business enough to warrant paying out of my own pocket, which I have done before. Yet, I am convinced from experience that the functions are beneficial and will lead to positive change when and if I put into action the things I have learned.
Do I pay regular money for tapes and books? Yes. Why? Because they are helpful. Am I coerced to buy from my upline? No. The tapes are from the system, so I buy them there. The books are available at any bookseller, but I would rather buy from my upline, who are my friends, than from the bookstore.
Do I buy my own products? Duhhh. Why would I buy soap from the supermarket when I think I get value from buying it out of my own little business. For that matter, why would any of my friends continue to buy from the supermarket when I can offer a decent product to them at a reasonable price? I would like them to buy from me, but they have their own hangups.
My best-friend is not in the Amway business. He was, but decided not to pursue it...my own inactivity influenced that decision. Are we still friends? yes, forever! In fact, he and I are working on a novel together. Will he remain my friend when I actively begin building my business? Of course. Our friendship is based on far more than a simple business transaction.
What about my upline? Are they my friends? yes. Do they spend lots of time with me? No. Should they? Well, I would like to spend more time with them, but in the pursuit of their dream, they have had to focus their attention on the people in their business who are building with them, and in so doing, created new friendships for themselves. But that doesn't mean I have been left out. Friendship cannot be defined on such low values as whether or not I am building a business.
A point about going to functions. On behalf of the company where I still have a job, I have travelled to such places as Washington, D.C. and New York City, to attend training classes and/or business conferences. Those suckers cost a fortune!! I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it. By the same token, I have gladly paid for some of the out of town functions in our distributor organization. They are by far a better value, at a fraction of the cost.
People who have attended business-related functions through their employer know what I am talking about. But then, value is truly in the eye of the beholder. If you are in the Amway business, and decide to participate in an organizational function, but after having gone, don't find you got anything out of it...DON'T GO AGAIN! Claim the loss on your tax form and get along with your life.
Mr. Schwartz, I am not the "Amway Fanatic" that has been portrayed by so many others on this site, but I do believe in the value of the system, and that putting forth consistent effort will ultimately yield to positive results. But I think you should make some attempt, and this response page certainly falls in that category, to present both sides.
Certainly the Amway business and the organizational style of some distributor groups are not for everybody. No doubt many have paid some money, gone to functions, sold a little product or none at all, quit, and were quite happy to do so, and feel much better now that they no longer are in it. They are entitled to their opinion and are welcome to it.
I don't believe there are any real losers out there, except for those who would try to steal the dream of another. I pity the people who read only the negative things said in your pages, and make a decision based only on that one source of information.
The Amway business requires effort. If you are building it consistently, you can make a very comfortable living in 2-5 years. I have seen people do it in less than 2 years, and I have seen those who have done it in 10 years.
I have been in for 10 years, and will one day actually build the business to the level required, God willing.
I am a former Amway distributor, and I agree with much of the information on your homepage. I was a distributor for approximately two years in the World Wide Dreambuilders system. At the time, (and again at present) I was a (not-well-off) college student. I was introduced by my boyfriend at the time, and I trusted him, so I figured I trusted the system. Unfortunately, though, I got caught in the psychological trap. Our upline was even a psych major in college. Go figure. Anyway, my boyfriend had gotten into some trouble that I did not know about, and on counsel from our upline did not tell me right away. They planned it so as to not inform me until after a function known as Dream Night, in which you have a so-so meal and see pictures of the things that the diamonds had. They knew that after seeing what I could have I would not leave this man. That is exactly what happened. The next school year I dropped out, convinced that I would never have to go to school again. Boy was I mistaken! I ended up broke, about $6000 in debt, and alone to pay it by myself. Now, I have that mostly paid off, and I am not trying to look for pitty. The problem is, our upline knew how bad off we were, but told us to keep spending anyway. Well, we finally wised up to the system (once we inadvertently stopped listening to tapes, reading books, etc.) and quit. About three months later I got even more wise and broke up with my lazy boyfriend. I have not heard a word from any of my upline since we left the business. It's amazing how conditional people can be. If you are doing something to help them make money, they are right there for you, but as soon as you decide that is not what you want to do, they fall off the face of the earth. Does that give you a clue to the kind of people you COULD get involved with? Who knows what kind of nasty names they are calling me now. Oh well. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Anyway, I am 23, back in school, and very excited about my future. I can see how 'the business' could work for some people, but I don't think I am one of them. My goals in life include HELPING people, not USING people.
I've been reading the material on your website recently since being approached by a friend about AMWAY. I find it rather interesting that some much of your "responses" are either VERY POSITIVE or VERY NEGATIVE. While I want all the information I can get to make decisions, your site provides too much obfuscation...too much bitching and praising.
The bottom line is that SOME people must be making SOME money in this AMWAY thing. If I can supplement my income with it, maybe it's worth it.
As I look back over the last three months I wonder how I ever allowed myself to be so easily hoodwinked. I guess a major part of it is that it was a friend of mine ( a lawyer) who introduced me to MLM and Amway. Now if I can just get him to buy back all these tapes and books!
Thanks for the info.
Just had to send you a note to express my appreciation for your information. I am tired of being approached by distributers everytime I turn around. You are providing a great service to anyone whoever wants to know the downside to such a business.
I have shown your articles to several friends who have changed their minds.
Thank you for your Web Site! Free speech its the AMerican WAY.
I am still in the process of reading your dissertation on the debunking of Amway. Recently, I was exposed to the system in a casual way by one of my customers. Of course, it appears to work so effortlessly. Even to the extent that if I was to call a meeting of prospects, and I could not be there myself, a higher associate would be glad run the meeting for me.
I am interested but skeptical.
I don't understand what you have to gain by trying to subvert their operations. You go to great lengths to do this. To what end?
Let me be clear, I am grateful for your point of view, and I will continue to read you information.
Sounds like you got dumped on and got in a bad group. Im sorry to hear that some idiot lead you astray.
I just happened upon your page and I was wondering--why do you give a rip what anyone in Amway does? Do you have some proprietary interest in making sure people hate Amway? It must be tough not to have anything better to do. Get a life...
I have taken the time (hours) to read and print everything that you have put out. I like the fact that you have provided us with as much information as possible and to some degree presented both sides. I commend you and thank you for your time and energy. Now as to why i became curious. Well you know the all too familiar story. I have been approached by someone who I trust and even went to a meeting. No I have not signed up. However, your information has given me a lot of food for thought. Ironically in my area what is happening that I find most interesting, is that they are appoaching professionals, doctors, attorneys, engineers, etc, etc. The idea they have is that you invest in yourself. Sounds real good. I can actually see it working. They don't tell you to sell the products, but rather, you buy the products, and the people you recrut by the products, and the people they recrut by the product, and down the line. Thats how you make the many. What I find most interesting is why would doctors, lawyers, and people who don't need money go into to this? Ah, so what is so appealing about this? I really don't know. I have read both sides, feel it can be done. So my options after reviewing both sides is, do I want to spend my energy, time, and money on this. I too am a professional, I think we can all use money. I don't believe that there is an easy way to make money. So for anyone who wants to get into amway, I say go for it, it probably can be done. For those of us who are skeptics, I feel that the information given would help anyone come to an educated well informed decission. I on the other hand have decided that I want to make money, but not the Am-Way, I rather do it My-Way, pay the consequences, fall on my butt and learn. I have other area's of interest that I would much rather persue. This way is not for me. I stalled my friend so I could get enough time to read and research, he's an attorney, what impresses me is that he does not need the money, so why do this. Maybe, he believes in the American dream, I don't know. What I have to keep in mind is that this type of busness is not for all of us. I believe I am one of those. But I highly recommend people reading, researching, asking, and not trusting a friends word, if one feels that after looking it is not for them, than great. But I can see both sides and feel that my decission is what is best for me.
By the way, why did you feel compiled to research, spend time to do this, spend your money, to provide all of us with this information. I will tell you, I would of paid the money to read the material, I guess I did by being online, however, it helped me reach a decission. Thanks and good luck with what ever it is that you really do in life......
Something you may want to expand upon on your page is the fact that Amway and organizations similar to it seem to be spending a lot of effort to recruit immigrants, (not only destitute people), by tring to interpret the "American Dream" for them. This type of exploitation really gets under my skin. I see people with a lot of talent and potential being taken advantage of starting off their lives in America on the wrong foot.
After checking out your excellent web site and reading the experiences of others, I felt that I had to share the experience of my wife and myself in "Scamway".
My wife, who works at a salon, was approached by one of her clients and was told that she was "smart" and "sharp" and that her husband had a business opportunity that they'd like to share with us. Being a young married couple just starting out, my wife jumped at the chance, despite the fact that they refused to elaborate on what the so-called "opportunity" was.
The night that "Jim" was to come over and present the "opportunity", I was cynical and told my wife that if the guy mentioned Amway, he was out the door. My wife laughed and assured me, "oh, it's not Amway.......". I told her that I would support her, whatever she decided to do.
Jim arrived, and was a nice enough guy. He and his wife sat down with us and proceeded for the next two hours to make "idle chit chat" about our family backgrounds, education, goals, etc. Jim then began asking what our "dreams" were. Coming from a blue-collar, happy-with-enough-money-to-keep-us going- and-happy mentality, my "dreams" seemed modest to Jim. He then tried expanding on our "dreams", asking us wouldn't we REALLY LIKE a big new house, or a BRAND NEW CAR, or be able to TRAVEL ANYWHERE? I didn't jump at this, as it sounded like a pitch, which it of course was.
After finally getting my wife and I to concede that yes, we'd like to own a home instead of renting, and yes, I'd like to be able to buy a Chapter House for my Fraternity (see how far he was willing to stretch things?), he discussed how his business opportunity worked. Out came the circles. And the layers of circles. And the talk about how we could save money by buying all of our products from the disrtibutor, cut out the middle man, and we would just have to self-consume and convince others to do the same and we'd be rich!
It wasn't until three hours into his spiel that he announced "the name of this opportunity is AMWAY". I rolled my eyes at my wife. He then went on to talk about how AMWAY had changed from the door-to-door soap peddlars thanks to the genius of Dexter Yager. I then had to listen to another hour of tales of "really great couple" like my wife and myself who were now Diamonds and drove huge mobile homes, lived in mansions, and travelled all over the world. We got to see personal photos of them in Hawaii partying with NFL stars I'd never heard of (so, gee, what careers they must've had), and got to hear just how easy it all is.
Jim pointed out that all we had to do was show the plan at least once or twice a week, and we'd get our six downlines in no time. He figured on about 10 hours/week, which he pointed out really isn't that much. Of course, when he pointed out that the average distributor makes about $65/month, I did the math mentally and figured out that I'd be making about $1.66/hr. These people were very nice and had worn us out, so my wife accepted some of the tapes and paraphenalia that Jim and his wife left for us when they finally took off, and we also had a future "date" to go to a seminar. Jim and his wife insisted on driving us themselves (ostensibly to be nice, but in reality to "trap" us into having to go, stay for the whole gig, and then be debriefed).
One thing that really disturbed me was when Jim said "When you were a kid, didn't your parents always say that who you pick for your friends is important?" I said no. He continued "Well, mine did, and they were right. If you want to be a winner, you have to hang out only with winners, only with motivated people......." Like other Amway people. In other words, if my friends weren't into Amway, drop 'em.
We went to a seminar and it was the most blatantly manipulative, overt appeal to greed I have ever witnessed, not to mention being completely sexist. The speaker, "Glen", kept pitching his questions to me, despite the fact that I had made it quite clear that it was my WIFE, not me, who would be heading this thing up if we did it. Glen was dressed in a tacky suit and was wearing enough jewelry to do a pimp proud. I joked to my wife that if we did do this and made money that if she saw me dressing that way to have me shot. The whole attitude towards women was so patronizing it was sick. The men run the business publicly, even if that's not the case in reality. Women are just there to be supportive (one of the tapes we got re- affimed this). And Glen, almost verbatim, gave the "hang out with winners" talk Jim had given us before foisting tapes on us.
After this, Jim wanted my wife to set up our own little presentation. We had to sit with him as he and his wife went through the "Profiles" book, tossing out first names that we were supposed to "connect with" as a reminder of a possible contact we might have ("Do you know anyone named .....'Bob'?").
We went from A to Z. After we had our list, Jim then gave my wife the rules on doing phone contacts:
" Say 'hi' like it's a normal call, and then say 'Bob, Mike and I have just found this great opportunity that could make us all lots of money.' DO NOT MENTION AMWAY, EVEN IF THEY ASK. Invite them over for a specific night. If they say that night is no good, ask what night would be good. DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. Also important is that you get both members of the couple to attend. IF YOU ONLY GET ONE PERSON, THE OTHER PERSON WILL TRY TO TALK THEM OUT OF IT, SO INSIST ON BOTH OF THEM BEING HERE."
I found the whole thing repulsive and dishonest. When Jim and his wife (and their upline) showed, they were disappointed that only five people came. But they gave their pitch, and you could feel the tension in the room. I felt dirty. One of the couple we invited called it a pyramid scheme and a scam and started tearing the math apart logically. No one signed up. Jim, his wife, and their upline merely responded with a "we'll get'm next time" line, and sold my wife a bunch of tapes and a book, now informing her that she'd be expected to purchase them regularly now (before, we got loners).
For weeks, we went to people's houses and showed the plan with Jim and his wife and their upline. No takers, but after every STP, they got my wife to buy more tapes and a book. It was insane. They informed us AFTER we had about a dozen tapes that unlike the Amway products, the tapes were NOT covered by any "money-back" guarantee and could only go down the line, NEVER back up. At this point, even my wife was fed up. She had sunk a couple hundred bucks, not to mention all those hours, into something that returned SQUAT and in the process ticked off a lot of our friends.
And to top it all off, our new "best buddies", Jim, his wife, and their upline, all dropped us like a bad habit as soon as my wife stopped buying tapes.
I want to state that your site is nothing but the TRUTH. Yes, people CAN get rich in SCAMWAY, if they're willing to sell their souls to "the Beast", look at all their friends and family as merely prospects, dumping all non-Amway friends, and are willing to drop huge sums of money into it for a CHANCE at wealth.
For all you "Am-bots" who have been slamming Sidney and "dream- stealers" like myself for pointing out this scam, get a grip. You claim that yes, there is a huge investment, but there's one in any business you start. EXCEPT-Amway recruits people by HIDING all the costs. NO ONE in told at the get go that you'll have to buy tapes every week (tapes that you cannot sell back), or that you'll have to buy books and go to seminars and rallies all the time. WHY NOT LAY IT ALL OUT AT THE GET-GO? Because it's a SCAM!!!!!!! I know of no other business that hides it's start-up costs as religiously or that even hints that you should only hang out with "winners" (i.e., other "Am-bots").
Amway is a scam. I stopped my parents from getting involved (in part thanks to Sidney's downloadable info), and am lecturing my Fraternity Brothers to stay away from it.
Thank you Sidney, and God Bless!!!!!!!!
Thank you for the interesting data on Amway. I'm delighted to see a place where people can share their views on Amway. I've been looking at Amway for about a week now, actually having purchased one of their kits just to get my hands on more information about them.
Going over "The Amway Business Review" reveals that the average distributor isn't making much money. (Oops, that's also referred to product # SA-4400.) To make money in Amway a person needs to either sell to customers or sponsor new distributors. (A combination of the two would probably work best.) Just going over the Performance Bonus chart and playing with numbers a bit is enough to convince me that the lowest level of the organization is forced to absorb the shipping costs and the taxes, the upline can just pass these costs downline.
But most good sponsors also lend considerable support in training their downline, so perhaps it is fair to have them bear the shipping and tax costs incurred. Still, I see the bottom rung of the Amway ladder as a sink or swim position.
I'd still like to see the ratio of active distributors divided by the rejections and the dropouts. This would help determine the work required to build up a reasonable Business Volume. The income for various percentiles of distributors was very interesting, but the figures on the projected growth rate of a group were meaningless when applied to small groups.
I'm disturbed by the tape distribution and seminar earnings. If my sponsor and his sponsor work so hard for no direct compensation (by helping me sponsor others) why should the individuals at the higher levels profit so handsomely on tape sales and seminars? I'd think that Amway would be even more successful if the distributors didn't have to sacrifice so much to get motivational material. (You, or another, did point out that Amway's motivational tapes are cheaper than those offered in some uplines.)
I'm also disappointed with Amway's wholesale prices. If they are cutting out the middlemen in their distribution system, as they claim, why aren't the prices lower? But if 65% of each dollar is available for Performance Bonuses, I suppose that the "middlemen" haven't really been eliminated.
I find myself wondering about the pricing policies of Amway's competitors, such as Olde Worlde Inc and others.
The postings from honest Amway distributors about using work and care to build groups and sales is very encouraging. Can such decent folk really help Amway to clean house? I hope that my fears are wrong.
Well, my time's about up. I look forward to reading more postings from Amway distributors who don't buy into the whole package, but still work at building a local group through work and maintaining their sense and ethics. Best to all ...
Thanks for having this page. My daughter and her husband have gotten involved with Amway, and your information has helped understand wha they are into. We appreciate the information.
Thank you for all the information. I have a friend who's allready dished out the money to "break the kit" and I hope to use this info to help him decide whether or not to continue.
Interesting. You are so pathetic that you make losers seem good.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You and I both know this. Successful people are breaking free of their financial bonds with the vehicle of the Amway business every day. Some are tough enough to make it and some are not.
The only people who want to throw tomatoes at successful people are those who are losers themselves and are jealous of the successes of others.
You know your true motivation. Or perhaps you don't. But from these excerpts of yours, I can tell that you will (probably) never be successful at anything.
A good friend of mine is a diamond level distributor who I see once a week. I knew him when he started in the business. He went from making $0 to $500,000+ per year. I would say that he got a good deal on his promotional materials, wouldn't you?
Thanks for this detailed info. on Amway. It certainly made me step back and think about the many "little" details that I have been concerned about regarding my buisness with the Yager org. of Amway. Its the details about retail sales etc. that we are told to ignore that worry me the most. We happily pass on the same message to our downline, while we could easily be part of this fraud.
We got off the books/tapes/seminars list today and are just waiting for the upline calls tonight. I've got enough ammo. from your page to get them concerned as I'm sure they are not aware of all these facts esp. the Yager/ Britt suit and Canadian customs settlement. (We were told that it was just a mix up with the customs people who changed their mind on how the Amway products would be taxed - and was Canadian Customs who were at fault - Amway actually paid up just to keep their good name and to settle the case quickly)
Again thanks very much
My husband and I were recently approached about a "business oppurtunity". It was called "Executives Unlimited ", after sitting through a very boring speach about the wonders of MLM, we discovered it was an Amway pitch. I decided to research the company. This web site helped me alot. You may want let people know about "Executives Unlimited". I don't want other people to be mislead by this new name.
As an Amway Distributor for the past 15 months, I am looking at my bonus check of $4,091.00 for the month of January 1996. The crap I am reading on this site is the usual mind controlling dribble that one would expect from people who don't believe in themselves or in helping each other. Yes, I attend Rallys and Seminars to educate myself and to learn. I thank the Yaeger network for making the education process available to those smart enough to use it. DOES AMWAY WORK FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON, NO IT DOES NOT. ANYONE CAN BE AVERAGE. It takes no talent to sit in front of a T.V. night after night with life passing you by. But for above average people THE LEADERS, this business is a windfall. I'm proud to be above average. I have tried the college route and doubled majored for 8 years of my life and got a 1 cent peice of paper for my effort. Then I invested $60,000 in a traditional retail business only to have a major superstore come to my area and destroy my customer base. So much for loyal people. When will you people learn that most people wine and cry about how unfair life is. People get off your a__ __ and do something with your lives. AMWAY IS SOMETHING THAT CHANGES LIVES FOR THE BETTER, PROVIDING YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE. IT'S HARD WORK BUT THE REWARDS ARE GREAT. So in closing let me say that you are entitiled to your own opinion as am I. I do not expect someone who has failed in Amway to understand Amway. But, don't knock it unless you have tasted some of it's successes.
Boy oh Boy am I glad I found your Web page! I was just about to get sucked into Amway (in fact I ordered my kit today; got to get back that check!) I knew there were a few things that just didn't jive, but I guess I got caught up in the moment.
Again, thanks. I think I'll stick to my traditional business.
I mean really.
My background, briefly, owner/manager of 2 retail hardware stores, married (happily) 21 years, 4 kids, bla bla bla.
I work hard. I play hard. I am worried about big home centers (Home Depot etc.) taking away the kind of store i run.
I almost bought into this Amway plan, believing the guy who approached me and still believe he thinks he is doing the right thing. For a year this guy has been working on me, to "sign up". I am busy, real busy, busy enough to not spend enough time to really evaluate this "system". Last night my wife and i listened again to the enticing upflow/downflow bs. Almost sounded good enough to sign up. Almost.
After waking up way too early today ( I just couldn't sleep thinking about this amway thing) i searched for Amway, mlm, etc on newsgroups and web sites. I found your site. I guess a simple thank you will be in order.
Between my gut feeling of "sump'n ain't right heah" and the multiple references to scams and cultism I have to say thanks to you and the others who have given me the slap back to reality, BEFORE I spent the time, and energy.
I have hundreds of Yeager SOT's from the Foley/ Mc Ewen line of sposorship which may be different than some of the others. I am also interested in your articles as I am a recently digruntled Amway Distributor who is more disgruntled with the "system" than the corporation. I am one of the few who made a slight profit as a Silver Producer with an oganization of between 150 to 200 or so "downline", but no where near what I got into it for. I have been a distributor for almost 5 years. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help you. I can only speak about my particular line of sponsorship, of course, but I'd like to help.
I know you probably get a lot of hate mail from Amway Distributers,and I'm not writing this to be smug or anything, and you're probably right about alot of things. . .
But . . .
I have recently (6 months) become an Amway distributer, and the business has changed my life. I have a future now. Any money I intnitially spent on tools I have made back tenfold. I have secured a permanent income and I love what I do. I don't feel like I'm part of a cult, I just shop out of catalogs. When my daughter got sick I could take her to a real doctor and not some clinic. I finally could afford a dozen roses for my wife on valenties day and not just one. My wife went back to school recently, something we thought would never happen. If I had read your page 6 months ago, I probably wouldn't have gotten in.
How many people are you discouraging every day? How many people have been persuaded by your opinion, and may have been successful business people.
I used to feel like you about MLM, but then I tried it. And I tried it with a company that has been doing it for a while and it works. Amway.
Some of your information is a little off, too. Do some more research and keep updating. this is a fast moving market and things are changing rapidly.
I know you think you are doing people a favor, and thats o.k. because 6 months ago I would have agreed with everthing you are saying. But the majority of people reading your page are people you can hurt.
I enjoyed reading your page, I can only say I am glad I didn't see it sooner!
Right on, man! I wish I could send you my tapes and books and "helpers", but in a fit of sanity (and NEVER getting ONE downline in over a year when my wife and I were "in") I burned over 400 dollars worth of the crap.
Keep up the good work!!!!!!
Ground Zero- 29 miles from ADA, Amway's home.
Just curious what your agenda is. One would suspect you of being a pessimist but on the other hand a realist. I am currently a distributor with the Amway corporation and I am not afraid to question things. I found the tools scam section very intriguing! A consumer advocate you are it seems. I will be reading more thanks.
I would first like to thank you for the valuable information found on this page. One of my buddies tried to get me to join, and after telling him that it was a skam, he simply denied it saying "you will make as much money as you want, you just have to be dedicated; the harder you work, the more you make". This logic bothers me because it is backed up by hopes and dreams, not stats and figures. I care deeply for my friend and do not want to see him get burnt. If you have any suggestions on arguments that would help him see the "light" I would appreciate it.
Love you're page! Reminds me of the good old days a few years ago on Prodigy, slamming amway, and everything associated with it. I, to, was involved with amway for only 4 months, but that was long enough to see what was going on. I attended the 1991 "Free" Enterprise Day in N.C. It was just a big Amnerdfest. I thought the basic idea of amway was OK, but when I informed my upline that I would not be purchasing any more tapes, books, or spend any money attending hype seminars until I saw some money coming in, they gave up on me, even though I was still making an effort to succeed.
Thank You for this great site! Sincerely,
Thank you very much for the time and effort you have put into this page, I believe it has saved me money as well as heart ache.
Hi, I am a new amway distributor. The information located at your site is quite detailed and I thank you for providing this information to the public. I feel from the time I have been in the buisness that the Amway people I have met are sincere in their helping others to succeed. I am aware of the amount of money spent on tools monthly and have been concerned with the possibility of a distracting interest being generated. I do not know if InterNet Services provides extra incentives to the emeralds and diamonds for the amount of tools moved monthly or yearly. If this would be true, I would be very disturbed because then the motivation would be shifted away from the real reason we are in buisness. I have not seen any evidence of this yet, but I thank you for your web page and the info it will provide me in the near future about the ghosts of amway...
I'm a 2nd year university student. I went to a little meeting last night about Amway International. There was this really pumped up guy that rambled on about how you could make so much money over a few years. He talked about diamonds and double diamonds. He told us not to talk to relatives and this sort of thing. I talked to my father about and he says its the biggest scheme going and its been going on for years. My friend is really keen on it and I was until I talked to my father and then found this page. I'm suppose to meet a guy on Sunday night, (barely gives you anytime to think about it!!) and talk about it.
They tell us that its not a pyramidal system. I read that the a judge ruled that it wasn't pyramidal. It someways it still must be?? Or there is something that just isn't right about it.
Really, I'm writing this message just to get your opinion on whether to join this organization or not. I think I've already made up my mind however.
I would appreciate hearing your comments and experiences with Amway.
Why has one individual, gone through so much effort to be negative about something. In this world i believe there are things for everyone. If it is not for you, fine, move on and focus some positive energy on something . . .
Do you get much hate mail from angry distributors. I was tempted to send you some then the compassionate side of me took over, and I decided against it. I pity you instead.
A few days ago I attended a seminar re: Amway. The business being to good to be true, and being new with the net, I tried to look it up and oh boy! what we found out!
Since the person who invited us is a friend, we (I and my husband) mentioned what we found out and so here I am trying to get more about it. Thanks to the internet. Thanks to you.
This might just save a lot of us. And I know a lot of them personally -- and some really spent already like at least P35,000.00 just to go to Australia to attend the "special" seminar.
Just found the site and appreciate the work you have put into it. We got sick and tired of hearing how "our children would appreciate it when they grew up" - sure, if they knew who WE were then! Fortunately, we stopped when our baby was 2 years old. We "sat home on our butts" playing with our children while our uplines and downlines were out all night every night drawing circles, showing the plan and "making money" - well, thank God we got out when we did because our baby died when she was 7. And many of those "circle drawers" quit after 'making their fortunes'!
We are distributors now only because we use their life insurance program and have to be distributors to do so.
The "Pearl" who pushed us and berated us for staying home with our children was one person who sent flowers and didn't come to the funeral. I haven't seen HIS face since she died, but I have what I want to say ready. In fact, I tell everyone I know how glad we are that we stopped spending our days at our JOB and our nights "drawing circles" because we realized that it wouldn't matter what we had when our children grew up, they wouldn't KNOW us and visa versa. Thank God, Sidney, that's all we can say - Thank God, we got out when we did!
Again, THANK YOU very much for your work - it is people like you who make a difference in the world - God bless you!