Amway: The Untold Story

Your Comments, Part 47

(11/97)


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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]


KUTGW This is english. Meaning

Keep

Up

The

Good

Work

Just don't waste your life on it, it isn't worth it.


Good evening,

I am currently a distributor in the process of leaving Amway Corporations voluntary sales force (After 4 years). My question is simply--it would assist many people to see some of Your Comments to the more aggressive distributors who defend AMO's and their practice of deception. Your Comments could or would provide some ammunition for us who have to deal with being called losers and failures, because we decide to leave the business.

This is far from an easy business for even a proven salesman (with a conscience that is!) to build. Prices are high and AMO's are constantly reinforcing the issue that people don't want to sell. The biggest barrier is simply if you can't sponsor you are basically a worthless human being. I remember our Diamond once saying "If you can't show the plan twenty times a month, you need a job!" That statement sticks with a guy and the mental impact of the many other statements made, state that if you can't make it in this business, you can't make it in anything. I'm still realing from the feeling of failure by leaving. I have paid a price out of honest intentions and found I was deceived to the point of financial ruin. My family and I are now rebuilding, but people who trusted me because I have always been a person of integrity and honesty are still not sure I am not out to get them. So I would like to see Your Comments to some of these issues if possible. Keep up the good work and your page has been a form of healing for me. It let me know that I was not alone in my experiences with AMO's and the Corporation.


Sidney:

You and others must be having an effect. There were only 3 new Diamond Directs this year in the Britt organization. I heard that Bill Britt mentioned you and your site at one of the DD meetings at a West Coast FED. I was told he said you were on the payroll for Proctor & Gamble and that they were helping you maintain your site.


Dear Sir;

I can understand how alot of these people feel. Their dreams are not worth the price you have to pay in the Amway business. However I believe in the Amway business and I also believe my future and the future of my family is worth any price. When you look closely at the alternatives (Social Security scam, the cost of living today and in the future, etc.) what else is there? Either you pay the price (which if you have a business mentality instead of a JOB mentality you realize the price here is alot cheaper and alot less riskier than a traditional business) to build your future or you pay the price of not building your future. Either way you will pay a price. Right? Now I have had my distributorship for three years now, and I am not a direct yet. As a matter of fact I'm struggling. But I will never give up no matter what. How could I look my family in the eye if I gave up on them. What kind of a man would I be if I gave up. No, I can read all the negative things written by people and only feel sorry for them because they gave up on thier family. Thier family was not inportant enough to them to PAY THE PRICE. You know what kind of a lifestyle a Diamond lives. How can you put a price on that? You cannot. You just have to pay it no matter what the cost and everybodies price will be different.

I do want to thank you for your site. You've armed me with information I can use to help others to slay the dragons that get in the way of thier dreams and I may be back sometime.

Brainwashed in Guam


I am considering the mlm leap, I am trying to be cautious and your site confirms my caution. Thank you very much for the free info Syd. You are a mensch.


Hello Mr. Schwartz,

I have enjoyed reading your site information. I am presenting an Amway distributer but agree with everything you are saying. Do you have any information on the legal proceedings in the P&G, Texas 7/16/97 regarding when the case is going to trial or any mediation dates? I truly wonder what Amway's legal counsel position will be. The AMO's are definitely a powerful force, and Amway has not been legal for many years. I personally wish it could be legal. I enjoy some of the Amway's core products and was very excited about this business opportunity. I am watching where it is going as I am a very ethical person.. Thank-you


Hi there

As Amway only recently opened in South Africa, it was with great interest that I studied your website. (I became a distributor two months ago). There are a few things that become quite clear as you read through the different e-mails:

- There is very very little in terms of hard facts that any of these people could bring in against Amway as such. Most of the negative comment is aimed at the Networks - some of which obviously are ripping off distributors by force-feeding them "support material" like tapes etc. I can honestly say that Network 21 was only supportive up to now and there was NO undue pressure placed on me.

- MLM is a hard game. Some people will inevitably fail, like thousands of salespeople fail every year to make a living out of sales - but that can hardly be blamed on Amway as such.

- The response from my customer (yes - people do in fact buy Amway products voluntarily) was VERY positive indeed. The products may not be the cheapest - but they are of excellent quality Hope I put some perspective into this sometimes one-sided and nasty debate.


Amway is a good company. It has help me and my Family and what you are saying about it being a cult is a lie. It depends on how you look at it.


Does Amway and the Association that creates the tapes have to produce profit and loss records? What information is available to the public that shows that the majority of the sales are going to the motivational tapes? How does Amway survive if the products are not moving? Does the organization that produces the tapes pay Amway a percentage? It is my understanding that Amway is a billion dollar business. What percentage is the product in the bottom line annual figure, or is it a combination of products and tapes? I'm sure all big business organizations suffer similar criticism due to mistreatment of their employees. What sets Amway aside from all other national businesses in relation to being a good or a bad businees to become involved with? I do alot a business with large national companies. I have found that any business whn it gets large has a tendency to be corrupt. There organization finds weeknesses in the publics lack of knowledge and depends on the fact that the majority will not questioning their actions. Believe me Amway is not the exception. It always interest me when people choose one faction to focus their attention on. Why not work on establishing legislation to protect the public from unjust ations and use Amway and other companies as the examples. I realize that even the politicians can be corrupt and usually do not take interest unless it is a election year or maybe the interest is low because they may have stock or other investments in these large coporate abuse machines. I would like to think that I could chose to sell a product and still make a living without the fear of being taken advantage of.

Thanks alot for the large variety of information and hopefully you will respond soon. Looking forward to hearing from you.


As a result of doing research through these kinds of sites, I began to learn that there is a bigger picture in the kind of activities that Amway is engaging in. For instance, when reading how Amway is paying off politicians in the Republican party, I also began to learn that other religion oriented organizations are also doing the same. It's not the fact that they are paying off politicians (which I know is common - who does'nt), but the fact that Amway in conjunction with right-wing Christian groups are looking to weaken the separation of church and state, interfere with reproductive rights and influence (greatly) the very politcal and judicial structures of the United States.

I realize that these kinds special interests groups are common, however, the big difference here is that if these groups succeed, then the very fabric of freedom as we know it will be threatened in unprecedented ways. Maybe it would be a good idea if you and others who run these sites make this information more or less front page (or WEB page) news. Whenever Amway makes a big monetary contribution to the Republican party, let it be known; to whom and for what reason if that information can be obtained. From there provide other links to what Amway and it's 'buddies' are up to in the political arena. This I think would really burn their a$$.

The biggest threat to these organizations is the flow of information which the internet provides. I personally would not have found this out through other means, at least not yet.

What concerns these groups (Amway included) is that when the avgerage person gets a hold of this information, (unlike the past) it will/may increase the chance that he/she will take action and spread the word. In other words, for these groups to succeed, they are depending on the fact that the general public will do nothing because of it's ignorance until its too late.

Thanks for helping to bring this subject into light for me. As a result, I now visit the WEB site called "People for the American Way" on a regular basis. Now I'm sending my correspondence to the senators and throwing in my support for the people of Disney. Usually senators, Disney and others like them get most of their correspondence from these Right Wing groups. Thanks to your efforts (and others like you) on the internet, I am now doing exactly what Amway and the Christian Right Wing (Christian Coalition) don't want me to do - letting my voice be heard and hopefully others will follow.

PS, you are doing a great job keeping your site up-to-date - it keeps getting better.


>I've been hearing this from lots of other distributors. Even Bill Britt and
>Don Storms, I'm told, are mentioning me and my site by name. They must be
>pretty worried.

"Pretty worried" I would say so. As the internet becomes more popular, more and more people are "getting all the facts" before they sign up. Hey, isn't that what they tell you to do-- get all the facts before signing your name. Oh, they really mean to read all the positive information and don't look at any negative. As the saying goes, "the truth is out there."

I, myself, haven't heard any messages sent down mentioning you specifically, but some of my upline do cling to the fact that "oh, he's just paid by people like Proctor & Gamble to put up stuff like that." Even if that was true, would it make any of the information (like the court documents) any less valid? If the Pepsi web site posted a Coke law suit, would it be less true?

Frankly, I'm getting just a little tired of hearing the same lame, weak arguments from people who don't want to take a critical look at their own business. And I guess that's where the real issue lies: the uplines don't want people looking at the Amway business with a critical eye. Are they insecure that if people heard negative information about Amway, no-one would join? Aren't those the people you DON''T want? Wouldn't you rather have people in your group who have seen all the positive and all the negative, but decide that the negative (while it does exist) is not important to them?

>Interesting. I've heard of APR but didn't know it was not offered by Amway
>Corp. Thanks for letting me know that.

I don't know if the ARP service is or is not considered illegal. Probably no one has thought to challenge it-- again, it's "optional." In reality though, you do get products (stuff that you would be using anyway) shipped to you, so is that illegal?. Is it legal or ethical or in Amway's best interest to have people "subscribe" to their products? Hmmm...maybe a comparison to Columbia House or BMG is in order. You can always ship the stuff back for a 100% refund, but there is no advance letter or phone call telling you your products are on the way (like Columbia House or BMG). It's up to you to remember what products are coming (or dig out the paperwork you filled out a few months ago). I suppose ARP keeps people "buying" even when they stop going to meetings. How many people are the lazy type and keep saying "I'll cancel later"? Yes, there is no written contract to buy anything in particular, but "you want to set a good example, don't you?" or "how will you be able to promote the program if you're not on it?"

Sorry to rant and rave, but after reading a lot of material about Amway, about cults, and about mind control (including Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control"). I'm starting to think more critically about the whole Amway business. the reasons and lines I had been hearing for so long just don't ring true any more. Anyway, if this info is helpful, I'm glad I can help. And if you want to post any info, maybe it will help more people.


Dear Mr. Schwartz,

I am sure you will not print this in your web site but I will send it anyway. I am sure that there are those who who have been burned by Amway but as with any multibillion dollar corperation there are always disgrunted people. If you don't believe me look at the thousands of employees laid off by IBM, AT&T and other companies. As for being a cult, I think you need to look up the word before you classify Amway as a cult. Amway is simply a business based out of Ada Michigan that deals with network distribution. As for the individual distributor, I have met Christians, Muslims, Jews, and a wide range of other religions in this business. While ethical treatment of others is stressed, I have never been forced to do anything pertaining to religion in my Amway business. I assume that you are a former distributor that did nothing with the business and that is fine. I have no hard feelings about that. However, in singling out Amway as the demon of motivational tapes and soap, you have done the distributors that have worked this business hard and made it strong a great diservice. I have been a distributor for two years and it has helped me tremendously. I have not lost my friends but I have made very strong new ones. I am not a millionaire, but I do make good money in Amway. I am not a Diamond, Emerald, or even direct, however I bring in enough money to pay extra bills, pay for my motivational books and tapes (which I buy without pressure) and put aside some in savings. As for people missing birthday parties or other functions with friends and families, if you had to be at a big meeting or out of town for your full time job, then no one would think twice about it. But since it is Amway related, people think that we are a brainwashing cult. The problem is that they do not look at Amway as a real business but just as a distraction. Again, I dare you to post this positive outlook on Amway in your websight. Support both sides so that people can make educated decisions instead of brainwashing them with just negative.


Another person wrote in to you saying:

>I am so glad to hear that there are so many people out there that
>don't want to be involved with the Amway opportunity! I am now
>totally convinced that there will be someone to wait on my family
>and I as we go to purchase the vehicles of our choice, go to the
>schools of our choice, eat at the restaurants of our choice, travel
>to the countries of our choice, live in the state of our choice,
>in the house of our choice, hire the house keepers of our choice.
>Does anyone get my point yet?

Well, I am so very glad that there are so many suckers that WANT to be involved in AMWAY.

Because of this, I am totally convinced that there will always be plenty of car salesmen, insurance salesmen, customer representatives, checkout clerks and fast-food workers to serve me.

Because, those are the jobs people keep while committing their lives to Amway. As long as Amway keeps them delusional about non-existant future success, They'll always be working their "real" jobs just to pay the rent and keep buying motivational tapes.

And these people will serve me courteously and happily too, because they're so hyped on Amway. They'll keep hearing the mantra "Attitude is everything" while serving me fries out the drive-thru window.

And the companies that hire these people must also be very happy with Amway for brainwashing their people with feel-good falsehoods so that they won't have to.

Amway-involved employees don't bother asking for raises or competing for promotion within their legitimate careers anymore. They're too busy obsessing with Amway success. So these people provide competent or mediocre service at a medicore wage. Beautiful!!!

But by far the most beneficial results of Amway brainwashing is more personal.

Thanks to Amway, I can always know who my real friends are. As soon as they begin drawing circles of influence on a napkin, I know I'm dealing with a person who doesn't view me as a friend but as a money machine.

I also use Amway to gauge an individual's intelligence and relative educational level when I conduct job interviews. I'll always ask about any previous enterprises or experience with self-employment. As soon as they say "Amway" or "Network Marketing" or "Multi-Level" I tell them goodbye. I don't want a weak-minded idiot like that working for me. Hiring easily-manipulated fools may have worked for the Nazis but it won't work for me.

Thanks, Amway. Thank you for "tagging" the idiots in our society with an easily recognizable and consitent behavioral pattern. Now normal people like me can weed out the undesirables a lot more quickly.


Sidney,

Your web site is very interesting you must spend countless hours maintaining this site.

When do you plan on writing about yourself? You could title it The Untold Story of Sidney Schwartz. I think your readers would like to know a little about you and what motivates you to maintain this site.

Who pays for this site? WHY?

What do you do for a living?

How did you come in contact with Amway? What was your involvement?

What is your creditability?

What is your affiliation with P&G? Did they seek you out or did you seek them out? Do they pay you? How much?


Dear Sidney,

Im mailing from germany after reading many pages in the www. A friend of mine got involved with network21 which seems to be Amway. He is behaving like people talking about amway-members. Could you please give me a short overview about the connection between amway and network21.

Thank you very much- greetings from germany


Hello mister or miss know it all,

If you dare to read this email(after writing this letter it ended up being long, but I am sure you will not read the truth), good for you... if not, then shut your web site. all, and I mean all your accusations are unfounded, the people or the former Amway distributors are like disgruntled ex-employees in any company. An Amway distributorship is like opening your own business, when you open a business you must invest at least 50,000$, if your business fails, who do you go blame?! When an Amway distributorship fails, who is the easiest person or company to blame? Your upline or Amway-then you start making accusations...if your "regular" business fails, do you go blaming the bank for lending you the money? or the person who gave you the idea to start the business? No, you usually blame everyone and every circumstance for the failure, except for yourself.

If an Amway distributor fails, it is because of his or her own failure. if you read business magazines or highly successful people's books (too numerous to list, but my favorite Mr. Les Brown, who has become successful through hard work, and motivation on his own, and until recently has not been an Amway distributor) all them write about motivation and positive thinking.

Can you then tell my why, if Amway is such a bad company or a company who is accused of criminal doings, why do professional athletes, actors, religious people, doctors, engineers, school teachers and other people in highly respected professions get in, and are very successful? Brainwashing, of course--- they have been possessed by cult leaders!

If this is what brainwashing is, making me feel better about my job when I have to go there every morning; when my mother, who has mental problems, goes through suicidal thoughts and I, an Amway distributor, who is being "brainwashed" by the books and tapes in the business am able to help her, and give hope for life, basically saving her life from more than two suicidal attempts.

I believe that I have become a better person because of what I have learned in this business, and I am now able to help my most troubled students(yes, I am a school teacher).

Some ex-Amway distributors claim to have suffered major financial losses-well, I have been in the business for two years and have suffered financial losses. But I have also gained a lot of success not only in Amway, but in my personal life and in about a year to a year and a half we will be able to retire from our regular jobs.

In any venture, if you do not stick to it you will suffer emotional and financial losses. As for the lawsuits, people are people-some posing as "good" Amway distributors will make bad judgements.

One question-does your boss scam you? Does he pay you what you are really worth? Does he pay you royalties for the success you bring him to his business?

Good question.

As for P and G, jealousy is all I can say...

Please get your facts straight about what Amway really is--- people who make their lives better.

If it is so bad, why then are there so many Diamonds and Double Diamonds?!?

Why is it that people, who are out of Amway almost always complain about the business? And people who are in it, thank God for it?

I know of a man who has once been in Amway, had been very successful, but got out because of personal reasons but still praises and thanks the business for his current successes. He is not disgruntled like the many others on your website.

I now dare you to put this on your website.

Yours truly,

Happy Amway Distributors


Dear Sir, or should I say that?

A distributors success in Amway depends on that persons desire for freedom. It is not for those people who think that $$$$$$ is going to fall in their lap. If people do not want to put forth an honest effort to get the $$$ then yes they are lazy. No upline in their right mind will spend all of their time with someone who is unmotivated for success, I know I would't! I believe you www page is full of BS. By god if the tools make you more money than so be it! they are good for you anyway! I know I'll be there soon.

thanks,

Happy Distributor (GO DIAMOND!)


Dear sir,

It is great to live in this country. And you are free to your opinion, because that's all it is. It is very intriguing that you don't understand the american capitalistic system. But then again maybe you do and that is your intend with this homepage. I have worked in my lifetime for three fortune 100 companies and find your articles quite amusing especially since it seemed as though you were referring to life in one of those schemes. It must be your dream to attack people, so be it. I'd much rather help those who want help and yes we will all gain financial rewards depending on our efforts. Sort of like my work with the three fortune 100 companies, not!!!

Ps. No need to write back. Have a nice life. How much money you make on your site?


you should be ashamed. get all your facts straight about free enterprise. i read Who stole the American Dream by; Burke Hedges (not an amway dist.) i'm doing things i want to do in life, "you can lead a cow to a river but you cannot force it to drink" know what? i wish you success in whatever you do, you don't need to waste time with negative things and putting others down. everyone has control of their own life, and there is no need to blame others for their downfall in life!

no need to reply, i'm sure you're a busy man.

life is already tough, i'm looking for more positive outlooks in life. no, not to change my life but to better myself with thank you.


Thank you.


All of the parameters you use to determine what defines a cult would define every household, school and corporation in the world as one also!

Get a Life!


I am an Amway distributor. I can't believe the amount of time people spend worrying about how much the tapes, books and seminars cost.

In order to get a college degree today, it can cost several thousand dollars per year for tuition and then anothe few hundred for books. In the end, you have put four or more years of your life in to something that may or may not land you a job. How does that make more sense than investing in an Amway business?


I'm an amway distributor and it has only been 7 months. This business has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. Because of the books, tapes, seminars i am feeling better about myself then i have ever felt before!!! I've never been introduced to motivational materials before but now my relationship with my husband and children is much better. Even dealing with strangers is easier for me. I think that everybody can blame someone or something for their problems but everyone is responsible for their own actions. Everything i do in this business of amway is voluntary. I Voluntarily listen to tapes, read books and go to seminars.. When i hear something i don't agree with i throw it out of my mind. Amway works... Your story sounds as though you have a personal hang up...get over it...grow up...be responsible for your own actions...I actually enjoy the challenges you give us..thanks!


My husband and I just "entertained" a business associate of his for over three hours to discuss, what we thought, was a mail order business. After two and 1/2 hours of listening to this man tell us about home shopping delivered...the brand new concept, he finally let the cat out of the bag and said the nasty word....AMWAY. Immediately, because of past family experience with Amway, the first word out of my mouth was cult. He proceeded to talk about Twizlers, Ford Cars, and other user friendly items that we could associate with to make this business more legit.... I guess it's the new well-rehearsed ploy to suck you in and get you believing in miracles before you see what is really involved. I was appalled at the trickery used, so I immediately got on the Internet to see what I could find, good and bad about Amway. Thank god for your web site...I hope that it opens peoples eyes before they become part of the Amway family.

Thanks for a job well done.


I am a direct in the Amway business and I wanted to point out a few facts. My net income from the business averages $1,500 to $3,000 per month with a majority of the income residual in nature. This amount does not include the profit sharing check that I receive annually nor does it include several other bonuses that I qualify for.

In addition Amway has recently added over $15,000 to the plan just to go direct. This can be accomplished in 6 months to 36 months part-time depending on the amount of effort you put into the business (I reached that level in 12 months). I also only put in 10 to 15 hours per week in doing that, compared to the 50 to 80 hours per week I work as a CPA and Chief Financial officer.

In going direct a person has created a distribution system that continues to generate sales and profit and thus has created an asset for themselves and their family. If you look at the value of this asset, it can be estimated by comparing it to the income from a savings account that earns interest at approximately the same monthly income.

For example, let's say an individual's savings and interest income from the savings are $1,000 per month or $12,000 per year. Although this is very unrealistic, because according to the U.S. Commerce Dept.'s Bureau of Economic Analysis, the average person saves only 4.9% of their income or approximately $1,225 per year (using an average income of $25,000). Then they continue to save every year for ten years. The nest egg would have grown to over $120,000.

Investing in something safe would yield approximately 6% (6% X $120,000) or $7,200 per year in gross income. Adjusting that for inflation you would need to reinvest approximately 4% (4% X $120,000) or $4,800 back into the principal just so you don't lose purchasing power on the $120,000. This leaves you with a net after inflation true income of only ($7,200 - $4,800) $2,400 per year.

Now if you factor in taxes at an average tax rate (state & federal combined) of 20% of the $7,200 or $1,440, you are left with only $960 per year after taxes and inflation (kind of sick isn't it).

Now let's compare that with my income (which is low for a direct, most directs I know make well over $4,000 per month and many of them make $6,000 to $10,000 per month). Amway has a built in inflation factor, which adjusts a distributor's income to inflation every year, so the value of my asset goes up as inflation goes up. In addition, because I own my own business, there are many legal and time proven tax advantages to my income verses interest income.

After taxes and inflation my business nets (using the low figure) $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year before profit sharing and other bonuses. The $18,000 per year is over 18 times greater than the income produced by the $120,000 savings account; thus my direct business is worth approximately 18 times $120,000 or $2,160,000. Not bad for a years worth of work!!

In Amway, you create an asset (a distribution network) that continues to produce income - this is far greater in value than a job or profession where you trade time for dollars. Are you getting paid for work you did in a job 1, 2, 3 or 4 years ago? Amway distributors are!!

You don't see Amway distributors that have reached the direct level or above quit Amway to become doctors, CPA's, lawyers, engineers, etc. However, you do see large numbers of doctors, CPA's, engineers, lawyers, and many other professionals are starting their own Amway business, becoming successful, and leaving their profession.

If you want to know other reasons these professionals are leaving their fields and starting their own Amway business, I encourage you to read the Physicians Financial News (Vol. #15, Issue #13, September 30, 1997).

IF!!!!! - you would have put into your Amway business one tenth the effort you've put into this web site, you would have:

A multi-million dollar asset.
Created an estate for your family to inherit.
More time to enjoy with your family and friends.
Positively influenced hundreds or even thousands of people.
Developed a more positive and attractive personality.
Found and spread the truth, instead of all the inaccuracies and confusion you have now.

I feel sorry for you (and even more sorry for your sponsor)!!!


You are a pretty bitter man to come against such a great company. Some of the comparisons are true, but not all of them. I checked it and your not telling the whole story. You need to quit lying. And even if the products were ALL more expensive, who cares! Would it matter when your even making just an extra 5,000 dollars a year from this home based business? NO. You should really stop being angry just because you quit. And if you want to change something then bring it up respectfully with the business, not just trying to hurt them by gabbing it to other people. I pray that God will help you do something good about any info that you have, not just try to slam a corporation who has done a whole lot more than any other corporation I can think of. God bless.


I would like you to know that I was highly disturbed when I came across your website! Amway is not a cult! It is a corporation in which you can make money. You just have to work at it. My parents are members of the Amway corporation, and have been for years. The do not push their products or their beliefs on anyone else.


To you, AMWAY may be nothing more than a cult. It may be a group of people who are brainwashed. My parents, and the many other successful people I know who are a part of this corportaion are not brainwashed. Amway has given them the opporutunity to excel in things they could not have done otherwise. I have seen a very close family friend be able to quit a job she was unhappy in to become a mother and a wife, all because they were mathcing her income in their Amway Business.

Another thing, Amway does not cause families and friends to break apart. They could have very easily been involved in any other thing and let it take over their lives. I personally have been to serveral Amway meetings, not once did I ever hear the speaker tell someone to get new friends, or leave thier families. That statement was ridiculous!

I admire you for beginning a page like this, taking advantage of you freedom of speech, but why not spend your time and effort on something more worthwhile. Something other than trashing a company's good name!


If listening to motivational tapes, reading p.m.a. books, and duplicating successful people is cultism, then over 90 % of succesful business people in the United States are cultists. The success principles taught through some of the Amway lines of sponsorship mirror those taught by Stephen Covey, Anthony Robbins, Dennis Waitley, and others. These people are read and listened to by countless individuals who want more from their life. I am not so naive as to believe that there are not Amway distributors and lines of sponsorship that conduct their businesses in less than ethical fashion. Those persons can be found in any conventional business or MLM in the world. Amway bashing as a sport is biased and prejudiced. If you feel you must slam a business opportunity then please don't be hypocritical. Let's include MaryKay, Avon, Tupperware, Exel, Gold Plus,etc.,... Please don't let the fact that you or someone else had a negative experience destroy anyone elses self image or, dare I say, dreams. Without a dream to work toward life would be meaningless, no matter what your endeavor.


After having an interesting hour last night of scripted responces from an Amway couple I sat and thought about "WHAT IS THE FUNDEMENTAL FLAW" in any MLM/network marketing system.

The distributor's are the customers.

They are the one's who buy the products /starter packs /tapes / seminar tickets.

And that's it. The organisation exists solely to recruit and sell it's product amongst it's beleiving numbers.

How can anyone be a customer without being recruited into such a golden opportunity ? So customers who are just customers can not exist or if they do, their existance is is shortlived. How can it be economic to deliver a bottle of washing up liquid to me when I run out and live across town ?

"Empora's new Clothes" or what ?

That is the fundemental flaw. I just hope people can grasp it.

By the way, I am well aware of the sales/influence/compliance techniques used throughout the organisation that is Amway but they take too long to explain to your average MLM space cadet. Find me a MLM'er with a list of 50 or more regular customers that they have supplied for a period of say 6 months and I'll eat my words. No make it 10 customers and 2 months !!

Great page. Keep going Schwartz


I was interested to find your website.

My wife and I lost a lot of money in Amway. I suspected from an early stage that someone was getting rich from selling tapes and books, but when I put this to my upline, they got very defensive and said that the 'tools' were non-profitmaking. Bollocks!

I hope that your site helps other people from making the expensive and embarrasing mistake we made. Keep up the good work!


Firstly may i say what a well presented site you have created.
Please here me out as I am a U.K. distributor who needs more info a.s.a.p.

I Understand that you may not have the time to answer my e-mail fully but if you could at least point me in the right direction on your website i would much appreciate it.

I am a current distributor in England and "GUIDED" by the IBS training system.

I have had my doubts to the cost and the way that they strongly recomend that you stay plugged into the system and I dont trust them, but I have looked at the opportunity very closely and do see some potential in the Marketing plan, I may be clutching at straws with Amway but I do not have another way of getting out of my rut, and cultism aside I do feel I have gained a lot out of the books that I have selected as I feel a possitive mental attitude can only improve someone if it is kept in perspective. Also I have found them to motivate me to get off my ass and do something which I would not have done normally such as start up my own business Desktop Publishing which is growing reasonably well.

What I dont understand is how I dont trust the IBS but I am staying plugged into the system because I feel the potential is quite good!

What I am trying to say is: Is it all as bad as it sounds. Is it the training organisations or Amway that are the bad influences. Could the opportunity work without the training organisation or is it compulsory? If it is a con then why am I conning my friends? (that is a straight question not a defending one)


I read your information about AMWAY and I agree 100 per cent!!!!! I am an accountant and I can tell you that I have NEVER seen a profit on a "Schedule C" for someone in the AMWAY cult. These people are brainwashed. I had one young man who was new in town and was in AMWAY and had been for 5 years. I asked him to bring in his previous four years returns so I could advise him on whether or not he could deduct his present year loss of about $5,000. When he brought them in, I discovered that he had claimed losses for the previous four years!!!!! I told him he came under the "hobby" rules and could no longer deduct any losses. He got mad and told me that it was people like me who was keeping average citizens in the "poor house" by always downgrading AMWAY. I told him to come back when he made enough money to break even!!!!!!


You certainly spend a lot of time trying to bring Amway down. What is funny is if you spent of fifth the time trying to become successful in life as you are trying to be a poison, you would be very wealthy. Of course when you are on retainer from Procter and Gamble I guess you don't need to work. How much do they pay you anyway? I can tell you from personal experience in the Amway business for 6 years now, I have found it to be a very positive and rewarding time. I love the business and I believe it to be a great thing. So what you ought to do is find something productive to do in life and stop being such a jerk.

M.B.-retired and rich

[This "retired and rich" person posted his emails from an account with his name at a public school district. Wonder why someone "retired and rich" would be sending email from his J.O.B.?]

Hey Sydney,

How is the money from P & G spending? You have no motive for this crap you spiel out except for your own personal gain. You have no heart. You are one level below Proctor and Gamble on the low life ladder.

[But several rungs up from Scamway distributors who lie about being "retired and rich"]


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