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From: Steve Rohall <slr@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: color preferences for menus?

Has anybody looked into adding preferences for changing the foreground
and background colors for menus?

			-Steve.
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Date: 25 Apr 90 19:37:05 GMT
From: rebel!didsgn!root@gatech.edu  (didsgn)
Organization: Digital Design, Inc.
Subject: ditroff for Andrew et al WANTED
Message-Id: <Apr25.1990.2733@didsgn.uucp>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

Dear fellows,

Can somebody tell me where to download or which # number to call in order to
get or buy a copy of ditroff for SUNOS 4.0.3 running on SPARC ?
A public domain version is fine also.

Thank you,

Jean-Luc Chatelain
Digital Design Inc.
3060 Business Park Drive
Norcross, GA 30071
USA
1 404 447 02 74 or 1 800 367 46 30

jlc@didsgn.UUCP
or
...!gatech!rebel!didsgn!jlc
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Date: 1 May 90 19:23:46 GMT
From: fernwood!oracle!news@uunet.uu.net  (Jonathan Levine)
Organization: Oracle, Belmont, CA, USA
Subject: Can ezprint print without ditroff?
Message-Id: <JLEVINE.90May1122616@slothrop.oracle.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


Folks,

   I'd like to get ezprint to work at my site, but we don't have ditroff.
All we seem to have around here is good old Berkeley 4.3 troff, the kind 
that tries to cat its output to /dev/cat (the C/A/T typesetter).  (We're
running Sun 4.0.3c and X11R4)

   Has anyone else overcome this problem (short of shelling out the $4000
to AT&T for the DWB)?  Is there a robust enough troff->postscript or
troff->(La)TeX translator that we could use in place of ditroff?  Is there
a cheaper version of ditroff available?  

Thanks for any help...

Jonathan
--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jonathan Levine 				 where you are right now,
Oracle*Mail Development				 only much, much better."
4248 1 Ann B. Davis Drive  (415) 598-8232		-- Laurie Anderson
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Date: Wed,  2 May 90 14:46:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Zalman Stern <zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: "Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai" <sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Judith Ann Jackson <jetson+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Susan Straub <susan+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ATK class on pmaxen
CC: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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There is a new version of .../class/machdep/dec_mips/doload.c in
~zs01/public/doload.c . This should fix the problem Sohan points out. The
reason the printf's fixed things is because they call malloc before doload
allocated storage for the dynamically loaded code. This changed the
location in memory at which the .do file was loaded. As it turned out, the
numbers worked out better in the relocation code at the new location. In
any event, the new code is much simpler and should work. Please let me know
if there are any problems.

-Z-
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Date: Wed,  2 May 90 11:04:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu,
        news%oracle.uucp%fernwood.uucp@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Levine)
Subject: Re: Can ezprint print without ditroff?
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\begindata{text,2465760}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
There's a text-only program that converts CAT troff dvi to PostScript, and can 
serve as a ditroff replacement.  I've got it stored as `troff2', and the 
contact name in the README file is 


\quotation{Chris Lewis, R.H. Lathwell & Associates: Elegant Communications 
Inc.

UUCP: \{uunet!attcan, utcsri!utzoo, utai\}!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis

UUCP: \{uunet!attcan, utcsri!utzoo, utai\}!lsuc!gate!eci386!clewis

Phone: (416)-595-5425

}
I believe it came through comp.sources.unix.


Bill

\enddata{text,2465760}

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Date: Wed,  2 May 90 17:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject:  modifier keys for mouse buttons?

Perhaps I'm missing something.  Is it possible to look at the state of
the Control, Shift, and Meta keys when in the _Hit method on a view?

Bill
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Date: Wed,  2 May 90 13:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Miles Bader <bader+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: tm bug with characters larger than \177
CC: vanmelle.pa@arisia.Xerox.COM
In-Reply-To: <0aDWjSQB0KGW4SPkFH@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <900501-172636-2860@Xerox>,
	<0aDWjSQB0KGW4SPkFH@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Blat: Foop

Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com> writes:
> ---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------
> From: vanMelle.pa@Xerox.COM
> Subject: tm bug with characters larger than \177
> 
> If a program running under tm tries to print a character larger than 127
> (e.g., grep in a file that has ns [XNS] characters in it, or other
> binary data on
> a line that grep prints), tm kills itself.  This makes it a fairly fragile
> exec window.

Tm decides to what to do with each incoming character by looking it up in a
table of 256 function pointers, indexed by the character.  I suspect that the
machine this person is having problems on has signed characters, so this
lookup is failing for characters with the high bit set...

You might try changing the line (in tm.c)
		action=escapes[*end];
To
		action=escapes[(unsigned char)*end];

This will probably make into the next patch.

-Miles
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Date: Wed,  2 May 90 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: vanMelle.pa@Xerox.COM
Subject: Re: ez C prettyprinting bugs
Cc: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu, info-andrew-bugs@andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <900502-173547-6635@Xerox>
References: <900502-173547-6635@Xerox>

[ Some comments on ctext in EZ from Bill van Melle (and my replies). ]

Excerpts from mail: 2-May-90 ez C prettyprinting bugs
vanMelle.pa@Xerox.COM (2018)

> Here are the ones I've found most annoying.  Do you agree with any of
> these?

> (1)  The statement following a do {...} while (...); is not indented at the
> same level as the do, but 2 characters further in, lined up with the
> closing brace of the do body.  It is probably relevant that I set
> ctext-brace-indent=2, which (other than this bug) I find significantly more
> pleasing than the default 0.

Yep, that seems  a bug.  (I too like the setting of ctext-brace-indent=2
better than =0.  Thanks for pointing it out.)

> (2)  It doesn't understand labels, in particular, that they should be
> outdented from the level of the surrounding text.  I would expect it to
> work as follows: when I type the terminating colon of a label, the current
> line is outdented by some amount (my preference would be ctext-level-indent
> - 1, but it should probably be another parameter, perhaps one even
> replacing the special-purpose ctext-switch-label-undent), and linefeed
> takes me to the same indentation level as the previous statement.  What
> actually happens is that the labeled line is unaffected, and linefeed takes
> me to the current indentation level plus 2.  From this I infer it isn't
> doing anything special with labels, and is thinking that I'm in the middle
> of a statement when I type the linefeed.  This makes it very hard to make
> the code look right when using labels.  Perhaps this is a plot to abolish
> goto, but if so, we are not amused.

Agree, though a purist might say that using a label in C is already
evidence of wrong thinking...

> (3)  I'm running with a Courier compiler that produces lots of union types
> with slots with names like foo_case.  Whenever I refer to one of these in a
> statement (e.g., bar.data.foo_case = baz;), the next statement is indented
> 4 spaces further.  Perhaps it thinks that underscore is non-alphabetic, and
> that the previous statement was a case label.  This gets quite comical when
> there are several such statements in a row.

One of the aggravations of the textview object is that it has no syntax
table.  In code editing, one often wants hyphen and underscore to be
understood as `word characters'.  Ez does not do this properly.  See GNU
Emacs for a proper implementation.

> There's also some annoying situation where it substitutes a tab for a
> single space, which then does the wrong thing when that text gets cut and
> pasted somewhere else, or maybe just moved.  I couldn't construct an
> example just now, so I'm not sure what the exact circumstances are.

Yes.  I've seen this over and over.  It's one of the reasons I use Emacs
for code editing.  Ez should never insert tabs unless the user
specifically asks for them by using the Tab or Meta-I keys.

> 	Bill

Bill


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Date: Thu,  3 May 90 10:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Subject: Re: modifier keys for mouse buttons?
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\begindata{text,270588776}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 2-May-90 modifier keys 
for mouse but.. Bill Janssen@parc.xerox. (146)}


\quotation{Perhaps I'm missing something.  Is it possible to look at the state 
of

}\quotation{the Control, Shift, and Meta keys when in the _Hit method on a 
view?

}
\quotation{Bill

}
Nope, you're not missing anything.  There is no method defined for finding the 
state of the modifier keys at any time in ATK.


It would be a fairly small modification of im.ch, im.c, xim.ch, and xim.c to 
provide a method that would report the current state of the modifier keys. 
 This modification would not work for the wm window manager still in use at at 
least one site;  it would simply report that none of the modifier keys was 
down.


I will send this reply to the buglist so it can be recorded.


Fred Hansen

\enddata{text,270588776}

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Date: Thu,  3 May 90 12:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Miles Bader <bader+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ez C prettyprinting bugs
CC: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Info-Andrew-Bugs <info-andrew-bugs+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <8aDsMgEB0KGW85_FVA@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <900502-173547-6635@Xerox>,
	<8aDsMgEB0KGW85_FVA@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Blat: Foop

Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com> writes:
> > (3)  I'm running with a Courier compiler that produces lots of union types
> > with slots with names like foo_case.  Whenever I refer to one of these in a
> > statement (e.g., bar.data.foo_case = baz;), the next statement is indented
> > 4 spaces further.  Perhaps it thinks that underscore is non-alphabetic, and
> > that the previous statement was a case label.  This gets quite comical when
> > there are several such statements in a row.
> 
> One of the aggravations of the textview object is that it has no syntax
> table.  In code editing, one often wants hyphen and underscore to be
> understood as `word characters'.  Ez does not do this properly.  See GNU
> Emacs for a proper implementation.

Regardless of whether ez should use syntax-tables, this is bug in ctext-- it
uses "isalnum" to decide whether a character is a legal identifier character.

> > There's also some annoying situation where it substitutes a tab for a
> > single space, which then does the wrong thing when that text gets cut and
> > pasted somewhere else, or maybe just moved.  I couldn't construct an
> > example just now, so I'm not sure what the exact circumstances are.
> 
> Yes.  I've seen this over and over.  It's one of the reasons I use Emacs
> for code editing.  Ez should never insert tabs unless the user
> specifically asks for them by using the Tab or Meta-I keys.

If you don't like it, set ctext-use-tabs=0.

-Miles
\enddata{text822, 19587}
\begindata{text822, 22323}
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Date: 3 May 90 18:23:54 GMT
From: auspex!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: Can ezprint print without ditroff?
Message-Id: <3291@auspex.auspex.com>
References: <JLEVINE.90May1122616@slothrop.oracle.com>, <IaDm4sQB0KGWESPoNp@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>There's a text-only program that converts CAT troff dvi to PostScript,
>and can serve as a ditroff replacement.

Unfortunately, I suspect this can't cope with insets that directly
generate PostScript; i.e., it's not a *complete* "ditroff" replacement. 
If so, it turns out that you can coerce Andrew into printing some stuff
with old "troff".  The README discusses a DITROFF_ENV option, but it
doesn't do anything; instead, you can change some of the printing
commands in "site.h" as follows:

    #define print_FORMATCOMMAND "eqn /tmp/%s.n  | troff -t - |" 
    #define print_PRINTCOMMAND " lpr -t"  
    #define DIVERTPRINTTROFF " 2>&1 | sort -f | indexpro | troff -t -ms"

which worked for me when I tried it (I just typed in a simple document,
with no insets, and printed it).
\enddata{text822, 22323}
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Date: 3 May 90 21:42:14 GMT
From: pasteur!jwz%teak.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Jamie Zawinski)
Subject: the Vote feature
Message-Id: <24704@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


A while back I was playing around with the AMS vote feature because I was
implementing one on a different system, and I wanted it to be compatible
with Andrew.  I noticed what I think were a couple of mis-features with
the way Andrew handles votes; maybe I was mis-using it, but in case I
wasn't, here's what I noticed.

 o  There doesn't seem to be any way to have a vote-choice with a comma
    in it - you're out of luck if you want to have a vote answer like
    "yes, I believe foo."  The syntax of the Vote-Choices: field should
    include some sort of quoting mechanism (and if it already does, that
    should be better documented - really it should happen automatically).

 o  When you see a vote-message multiple times, you get asked to vote
    again and again.  In the system I implemented (in a mail-reader that
    uses Babyl files) I solved this by simply adding a VOTED property
    to the message; I'm surprised that Andrew doesn't do something like
    this.  Is there a general property-list mechanism for message objects?

		-- Jamie
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Date: Thu,  3 May 90 17:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu, info-andrew-bugs@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject:  states of sendmessage seem wrong

\begindata{text,3253200}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
When a user in messages types 'r' to reply to a message, a sendmessage window 
comes up with the started message (the \bold{To:} and \bold{Subject:} headers 
filled in).  But the state of the window is "Starting Fresh" (SM_STATE_READY), 
which is the same state one has after invoking clear on the sendmessage 
window.  I'd argue that this is incorrect, and that the correct state should 
be "Composing" (SM_STATE_INPROGRESS).


I really notice this after making some hacks to sendmsg.c so that multiple 
replies can be composed simultaneously.  In this case, messages maintains a 
list (glist, actually) of sendmessage windows, and re-uses those in the 
"Send/Posted" (SM_STATE_SENT) state.  It really should be able to re-use those 
in the SM_STATE_READY state as well, but this results in trashing replies that 
have only just begun.


Bill

\enddata{text,3253200}

\enddata{text822, 26732}
\begindata{text822, 29281}
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X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 469;andrew.cmu.edu;Craig F. Everhart
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    pasteur!jwz@teak.berkeley.edu (Jamie Zawinski)
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\begindata{text,19199020}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
AMS choices can have commas in them.  I believe that you just put the 
vote-choice in double-quotes.  You get double-quotes in your choice by 
prefixing them with a backslash, I think.  Presence of the vote choice ``*'' 
indicates that a write-in vote is allowed.  Complete, if not legible, 
documentation is in the source andrew/ams/libs/cui/cuilib.c, in the stuff 
processing the Vote* headers.


Actually, I believe that the quoting of vote choices with commas does happen 
automatically.  Maybe it does in Messages but that bug fix wasn't also made in 
CUI or VUI or BatMail or whatever, and that's why I remember it this way.


Acknowledgement requests are handled in much the same way as you believe 
vote-requests should be: you should never have to acknowledge a message more 
than once.  I think Nathaniel believed that you should be able to vote as 
often as you like (at least from the sender's perspective, leaving the 
filtering to the recipient), so the choice of not setting an attribute seemed 
sensible.


Nathaniel drafted an RFC on these vote-headers that would probably explain the 
formatting more fully, but I don't think it got very far.


		Craig

\enddata{text,19199020}

\enddata{text822, 29281}
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: cmenu

\begindata{text,966008}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
I can't seem to get \bold{cmenu.PaneSpread} and \bold{cmenu.OverlapPct} to do 
anything.  They seem to be no-ops.  I've tried putting them in my 
\bold{.Xresources} file, \bold{.Xdefaults} file (yes, I ran \italic{xrdb} to 
load the new resources, and no, I don't expect it them to go into effect until 
I start a new Andrew app), and my \bold{preferences} file, all to no avail. 
 The menus behave exactly the same way no matter what values I use for these. 
 Is this supposed to work?  The help document for \italic{cmenu} says to put 
these in the \bold{.Xdefaults} file.  Is this really right, or should they 
work from \bold{preferences} or any file you load with \italic{xrdb}?


I'm running Andrew with patches 1-5 on a Sun 4/60 under SunOS 4.0.3 and MIT X 
with patches 1-11.


\italic{Tom Crockett}


\smaller{\bold{ICASE}

Institute for Computer Applications in Science and Engineering


\smaller{M.S. 132C				e-mail:  tom@icase.edu

NASA Langley Research Center		phone:  (804) 864-2182

Hampton,  VA  23665-5225

} 
\smaller{ }}\smaller{ } 
                                                                       

                                                                           

\enddata{text,966008}

\enddata{text822, 31832}
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X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 13;andrew.cmu.edu;Fred Hansen
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Date: Fri,  4 May 90 15:04:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: states of sendmessage seem wrong
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References: <saEAkYoB0KGW45_SVJ@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,270588776}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 3-May-90 states of 
sendmessage seem .. Bill Janssen@parc.xerox. (818+0)}


\quotation{When a user in messages types 'r' to reply to a message, a 
sendmessage window comes up with the started message (the \bold{To:} and 
\bold{Subject:} headers filled in).  But the state of the window is "Starting 
Fresh" (SM_STATE_READY), which is the same state one has after invoking clear 
on the sendmessage window.  I'd argue that this is incorrect, and that the 
correct state should be "Composing" (SM_STATE_INPROGRESS).

}
There may be a problem, but I don'tthink the proposed solution is correct. 
 Consider happens if you click "Reply to sender" on one message, type no 
message, and click the same option on another message.  The observed behavior 
is that the first generated message header is discarded without asking.  I 
like this feature.


I would propose that after "reply to sender" the state be some new state 
indicating that a message reply has been started, but nothing has been typed 
in yet.


Fred Hansen\
\enddata{text,270588776}

\enddata{text822, 34325}
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Date: Fri,  4 May 90 17:07:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: states of sendmessage seem wrong
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	<YaER9MO00VsPE4PI5H@andrew.cmu.edu>

I guess I'd agree with Fred's proposed solution -- that way Bill's hacks
could do the right thing and so could the behavior Fred & I like.  The
trick will be to make sure that everything that currently looks for
SM_STATE_READY also consider the possibility of this new state, as well.
 -- Nathaniel
\enddata{text822, 36729}
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From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu, Tom Crockett <tom@icase.edu>
Subject: Re: cmenu
In-Reply-To: <gaEP=U30_csmQ=BEJC@icase.edu>
References: <gaEP=U30_csmQ=BEJC@icase.edu>

\begindata{text,2400944}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
I found the appropriate way to set these is with the program name or an 
asterisk in the first field, not with `cmenu' there.  For example:


\example{*.TitleFont:		-xerox-cream-bold-r-normal--10-100-75-75-p-90-iso8859-1

*.SelectionFont:	-xerox-cream-medium-r-normal--12-120-75-75-p-90-iso8859-1

*.WormHole:		1

ez.OverlapPct:	30

}
Of course, I still don't get wormholes in messages...


Note that the documentation on cmenu is pretty flakey.  What it calls PaneFont 
in the doc is called TitleFont in the code, the `cmenu' prefix doesn't work, 
etc.


Bill

\enddata{text,2400944}

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Date: Fri, 4 May 90 17:37:10 EDT
From: bill@allegra.tempo.nj.att.com (Bill Schell)
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: missing tree object methods

Hi there.  I'm having a few problems synchronizing the tree/treev inset
documentation with what actually is implemented in the code.  The methods
tree_SetNodeAttribute, tree_NodeAttribute and treev_ChangeNodeAttribute as
described in the tree/treev documentation don't seem to be present in
the source code for tree/treev.  Were these just wishful thinking and
never actually got implemented?

I've been coding along happily for several weeks, planning on 
showing different nodes in the tree I'm displaying with different
shapes (treev_NodeBorderStyle's).  Is there are a way to do this without
hacking the inset code itself?

Thanks,
	Bill Schell
	AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ
	bill@research.att.com
	
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From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: info-andrew-bugs@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject:  bugs with help aliases
Cc: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

\begindata{text,2400944}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
The default \typewriter{$\{ANDREWDIR\}/help/help.aliases} file seems to be 
out-of-sync with the documentation.  About half the help topics mentioned in 
the help file for \bold{ez}, for instance, are not valid help aliases.  The 
help files are all there, mind you, it's just that the aliases mentioned in 
the documents and the aliases listed in \typewriter{help.aliases} don't match. 
 This results in the help tool being broken.


Bill

\enddata{text,2400944}

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Date: Fri,  4 May 90 17:01:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu, info-andrew-bugs@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: states of sendmessage seem wrong
In-Reply-To: <saEAkYoB0KGW45_SVJ@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <saEAkYoB0KGW45_SVJ@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

Well, the rationale here was that if you'd just typed "r" but hadn't
typed any details yet, you hadn't put in any work that you'd mind seeing
lost by clearing the sending window.  I admit that you could go either
way on this one, and I don't feel very strongly about it, but it wasn't
an accident -- I was opting for saying that something that was just
generated by typing "r" was not important enough to require you to say
"yes" to a dialog box if you try to clear it, that's all.  -- NB
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Date: Fri,  4 May 90 14:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>,
        Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: states of sendmessage seem wrong
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	<YaER9MO00VsPE4PI5H@andrew.cmu.edu>

\begindata{text,2400944}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 4-May-90 Re: states of sendmessage s.. 
Fred Hansen@andrew.cmu.e (1009+0)}


\quotation{Consider happens if you click "Reply to sender" on one message, 
type no message, and click the same option on another message.  The observed 
behavior is that the first generated message header is discarded without 
asking.  I like this feature.

}
This `feature' is what I call a bug.  When I click reply, I am in the process 
of composing a message.  When I click reply on a second message, I want 
another sendmessage window, \bold{not} to have the first one cleared.


When two people disagree on whether something is a bug or feature, it often 
makes sense to make the controversial behavior optional.


Bill

\enddata{text,2400944}

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Date: Fri,  4 May 90 17:06:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: the Vote feature
In-Reply-To: <24704@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
References: <24704@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>

No, you've made some errors here, and even Craig has let one slip by:

1.  You can indeed put comas in votes, if they are properly quoted. 
When you use "Add Special Headers" in the messages sending window, it
does this for you automatically.

2.  It does not ask you to vote multiple times IF it is a personal mail
message.  However, on a bboard it asks you to vote multiple times
because there is no obvious place to record the fact that you've already
voted.  At least, that's the way I believe it worked when I wrote it...

For what it's worth, Craig is right that I have an old draft of the way
vote syntax works.  It follows below, in Scribe format, though note that
it is very old and was never submitted as an RFC.  If you want to make
sense of the syntax, read RFC822.  -- Nathaniel

@device(file)
@make(article)
@set(page=1)
@b(RFC XXX)

@center[A Vote Feature for Conducting Surveys with ARPA Internet Messages

Nathaniel S. Borenstein
Craig F. Everhart
Information Technology Center
Carnegie-Mellon University
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 15213

nsb+@@andrew.cmu.edu

Abstract

@quotation[This proposal describes an extension to RFC 822 which may be
used to allow users to conduct votes, or opinion surveys, via electronic
mail.  It is based on a facility already in use in the Andrew Message
System at Carnegie-Mellon University, which has proven workable and
useful in that context.  It is proposed here in slightly generalized
form, in the hope that its adoption by a wider community of mail systems
might make it of even greater utility.]]

@Section(Introduction )

This RFC proposes a new addition to the set of standard headers which
may appear in Internet mail as defined by RFC 822.  The purpose of the
new "Vote-XXX" headers is to facilitate the use of electronic mail to
conduct multiple-choice votes and surveys on a given topic.  The
usefulness of this functionality should be readily apparent; for
example, on UNIX Netnews, votes are frequently conducted regarding the
desirability of new newsgroups, and the absence of automated support for
such votes makes them much more painful that they need to be.

We propose three new headers which will appear on messages requesting a
vote, and one new header which will appear on messages containing votes.
 None of the headers conflict with existing RFC 822 headers, so no
compatibility problems are anticipated.

@Section(Specification of the Message Requesting a Vote)

A message requesting a vote should contain three extra headers, not
currently found on RFC 822 messages: 

The "vote-request" header contains an ID used to identify the vote, and
the question to be voted on.

The "Vote-To" header contains the address to which the vote answer
should be sent.

The "Vote-Choices" header contains the answers from which the recipient
is asked to make a selection.  The special choice "*"  is used to
indicate the acceptability of "write-in" votes.

The syntax of these headers is defined below.

@begin(programexample)
vote-request := "Vote-Request" ":" atom "," phrase

vote-to := "Vote-To" ":" 1#address

vote-choices := "Vote-Choices" ":" vote-choice [, vote-choice]*

vote-choice := 1#quoted-string | 1#phrase

vote-id := atom

vote-question := phrase

@end(programexample)

Thus for example, a vote allowing people to choose their favorite color
and allowing write-in votes might contain the following three headers:

@begin(programexample)
Vote-Choices: red , blue, yellow, *
Vote-To: nsb+@@andrew.cmu.edu
Vote-Request: My-Vote-234, What is your favorite color?
@end(programexample)

@section(Specification of a Vote Reply)

When a participating system presents a message calling for a vote to a
user, it should provide the user with the opportunity to vote.  (It is
recommended that the option of not voting also be presented.)  If the
user chooses to vote, a message should be sent to the Vote-To address. 
It is also recommended that the message contain meaningful information
in the Subject header and message body.  In particular, the recommended
Subject header syntax is "<choice>: My vote on <id>", where <choice> is
the choice the user selected and <id> is the vote id given on the
vote-request line.  (This syntax, by making the <choice> come first, may
be particularly useful on the many systems in which subject lines are
truncated in their initial presentation to the user.)

@section(Conclusion)

The voting feature described in this RFC may be implemented by
participating mail systems without interfering with the functioning of
existing systems or of systems that choose not to participate.  It has,
in an earlier form, proven both generally useful and simple to
implement, and could be a valuable addition to the set of features
commonly provided in the Internet mail environment.

@section(References)

1.  Crocker, David H. RFC 822: Standard for the Format of ARPA Internet
Text Messages.  Network Information Center, August 13, 1982.

\enddata{text822, 49219}
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Date: Sat,  5 May 90 19:44:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Zalman Stern <zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: cmenu
In-Reply-To: <QaETBaoB0KGW8D06FG@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <gaEP=U30_csmQ=BEJC@icase.edu>,
	<QaETBaoB0KGW8D06FG@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com> writes:
[...]
> Of course, I still don't get wormholes in messages...
> 
> Note that the documentation on cmenu is pretty flakey.  What it calls
> PaneFont in the doc is called TitleFont in the code, the `cmenu' prefix
> doesn't work, etc.
> 
> Bill

Wormholes don't work correctly. This is a deficiency of cmenu and perhaps
the im code. Basically, im uses a bunch of cmenu data structures to
represent variants of what the user considers one set of menus. For
example, the messages menu with "Delete" is a different menu than the one
with "Undelete". Cmenu maintains a worm hole per menu basis where a more
global mechanism (say per window) is needed.

The documentation is flaky because cmenu was rewritten from scratch and
the documentation didn't track the code very well. Sigh... (Programmer
documentation should also be written since cmenu can easily be used outside
of ATK. However, I get the impression that the rest of the X11 community
does not appreciate the greatness of Andrew menus :-))

Sincerely,
Zalman Stern
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Date: Mon,  7 May 90 07:45:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wayne Richardson <wdr+@rchland.ibm.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Reply-To: <wdr@ibm.com>
Subject: Re: cmenu
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Excerpts from ext.cmu.info-andrew: 4-May-90 cmenu Tom
Crockett@RCHGATE.rch (1049+0)

> I can't seem to get cmenu.PaneSpread and cmenu.OverlapPct to do
> anything.  They seem to be no-ops....

The following, in my .Xdefaults, works for me:

      *.OverlapPct:		25

-wr
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Date: 8 May 90 00:16:36 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!turbo.bio.net!lear@ucsd.edu  (Eliot)
Organization: GenBank Computing Resource for Mol. Biology
Subject: AMS Errors
Message-Id: <May.7.17.16.36.1990.25684@turbo.bio.net>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


Does anyone know what the following message means?  I get it when a
folder needs to be updated.  It would appear that I have Andrew
configured improperly, but I'm not sure how.  Thanks for any and all
help...

<warning:cui>errcause 183 out of range
<warning:cui>errvia 144 out of range
<warning:cui>Could not update your profile - Block device required (in unknown l
ocation in unknown location)
-- 
Eliot Lear
[lear@turbo.bio.net]
\enddata{text822, 59918}
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From: Pieter Verhaeghe <pive%rucageo@vma.cc.cmu.edu>
To: <info-andrew%andrew.cmu.edu%maze@vma.cc.cmu.edu>
Subject: console problems with patches 1-5


Hi,
After I have installed X fixes 1-9 and andrew patches 1-5, my console
program does not work properly:
when I start console, the console window pops up, with message
initializing console <console_name>, this least for about four minutes,
then the "normal" console window appears with the error message:
console:<OpenConsoleSocket> gethostbyname failed  (10:46:49 ). And
console does not take over /dev/console.
The problems I discovered  when I did a make (after installing the
patches), is that the system "thinks"that sun os 3.5 (sun 3/60) is
compatible with BSD4.3, but when I do a rlogin from another hosts our
computer answers with BSD4.2
So I tried to change my site.mcr and site.h files:

site.mcr
/* Empty site.mcr file.  Use this file to hold all */
/* your site's changes to allsys.mcr and system.mcr. */
XUTILDIR = /usr/bin/X11
RESOLVLIB = /usr/lib/libresolv.a

site.h
/* Empty site.h file.  Use this file to hold all */
/* your site's changes to allsys.h and system.h. */
#define CONTRIB_ENV     1
#define MK_BASIC_UTILS  1
#define MK_AUX_UTILS    1
#define MK_AUX_INSETS   1
#define MK_AUTHORING    1
#undef MK_MUSIC
#undef  LINKINSTALL_ENV
#undef OPSYSNAME
#define OPSYSNAME "SUN3_4.2bsd"
#undef SYS_NAME
#define SYS_NAME "sun3_60"
#undef  SY_B43
#define SY_B43 0
#undef  SY_B42
#define  SY_B42 1

system.mcr
/* Copyright IBM Corporation 1988,1989 - All Rights Reserved */
/* For full copyright information see:'andrew/config/COPYRITE' */

/* The next two lines need to be kept in sync */
#include <system.h>
        SYSTEM_H_FILE = system.h

/* These next two lines help configure the embedded machine-dependent
    directories overhead/class/machdep, atk/console/stats, and
    atk/console/stats/common. */
        SYS_IDENT = sun3_35
        SYS_OS_ARCH = sun_68k

/* Get parent inclusions */
#include <allsys.mcr>


/* Now for the system-dependent information. */
/* (currently none) */

/* Get site-specific inclusions */
#include <site.mcr>

system.h
/* ********************************************************************** *\
 *         Copyright IBM Corporation 1988,1989 - All Rights Reserved      *
 *        For full copyright information see:'andrew/config/COPYRITE'     *
\* ********************************************************************** */
#ifndef SYSTEM_H
#define SYSTEM_H

/* Get common definitions */
#include <allsys.h>

#define OPSYSNAME      "SUN3_4.3bsd"
#define sys_sun3_35    1
#define SYS_NAME       "sun3_35"
#define SUN_ENV


/* Here follow the overrides for this system. */
#undef  SY_B43
#define SY_B43 1 /* This system is most like bsd 4.3 */

#define NDBM_ENV    1
#define GETDOMAIN_ENV  1


/* Now follow the site-specific customizations. */
#include <site.h>

#endif  /* SYSTEM_H */

Can anyone tell me what I did wrong? (With no patches installed console
worked just fine)

Another problem I still have, ZIP crashes my Xserver. I was told that
the fixes from X would solve this problem, but they didn't.

Any help is welcome. Please do not use the reply-adress in the header
file, but use one of those listed bellow.
Thanks in advance.




P. Verhaeghe
University of Antwerp, RUCA
Algebra / Geometry
Groenenborgerlaan 171
B-2020 Antwerpen, Belgium

Tel: +32 3 2180308
Fax: +32 3 2180217
Telex: RUCABI 33362

E-mail: pive@banruc01.bitnet (or pive@ccu.uia.ac.be)






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Date: Tue,  8 May 90 09:36:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: AMS Errors
In-Reply-To: <May.7.17.16.36.1990.25684@turbo.bio.net>
References: <May.7.17.16.36.1990.25684@turbo.bio.net>

Zounds.  That's a weird one indeed.  I think more information would be
helpful -- what machine/OS you're using, what precisely is the sequence
of operations that triggers this message, what your compilation options
and AndrewSetup file look like, and so on.  Offhand, I'm totally at a
loss to even hypothesize about this one -- I don't think I've seen
"errcause/errvia xxx out of range" messages since I was debugging the
error-reporting code, about four years ago!  -- Nathaniel

PS -- Actually, a likely hypothesis involves memory corruption
overwriting the error state, but to track that one down we'll need to
know how you trigger the bug.  -- NB
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Date: Tue,  8 May 90 14:44:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Cattey <wdc@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
To: wdr@ibm.com
Subject: Re: cmenu
Cc: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <saFKrWc91E47R3AnJA@rchland.ibm.com>
References: <gaEP=U30_csmQ=BEJC@icase.edu>,
	<saFKrWc91E47R3AnJA@rchland.ibm.com>

I've been playing with OverlapPct and have some experience which may
solve your problem:

1. (Probably not the cause.)  When you modify the X resources, you have
to tell xrdb to re-load the file.  (This change has been in place since
the switch to X resources from X defaults.  You are already probably
aware of this.)

2. The directive 

cmenu.OverlapPct: 25

will change the OverlapPct for an application named cmenu (such as the
menu test suite.)  In order for it to work for ez, and all the other
applications you have to say:

*.OverlapPct: 25

-wdc
\enddata{text822, 68862}
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Date: Thu, 10 May 90 11:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Tom Crockett <tom@icase.edu>
Subject: Re: cmenu
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References: <gaEP=U30_csmQ=BEJC@icase.edu>,
	<QaETBaoB0KGW8D06FG@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,269862608}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 4-May-90 Re: cmenu Bill 
Janssen@parc.xerox. (541+0)}


\quotation{Note that the documentation on cmenu is pretty flakey.  What it 
calls PaneFont in the doc is called TitleFont in the code, the `cmenu' prefix 
doesn't work, etc.

}
I just rewrote the cmenu help file to conform to reality.  It will be released 
with the next patch (6).


Gary Keim

ATK Group

\enddata{text,269862608}

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To: Info-Andrew-Bugs <info-andrew-bugs+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: bugs with help aliases
CC: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <kaEULFkB0KGWAD09xn@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <kaEULFkB0KGWAD09xn@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,269862608}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 4-May-90 bugs with help aliases Bill 
Janssen@parc.xerox. (399+0)}


\quotation{The default \typewriter{$\{ANDREWDIR\}/help/help.aliases} file 
seems to be out-of-sync with the documentation.  About half the help topics 
mentioned in the help file for \bold{ez}, for instance, are not valid help 
aliases.  The help files are all there, mind you, it's just that the aliases 
mentioned in the documents and the aliases listed in \typewriter{help.aliases} 
don't match.  This results in the help tool being broken.

}
There is a distributed help.aliases file.  Additional entries are added during 
the build process.  You should make sure that the build gets all the way 
through.  


G\indent{o into /u/andrew and \bold{make dependInstall SUBDIRS="helpindex 
helpaliases"}.

}
Let me know what happens.  I think that the build failed and never got to 
those last two dirs.


Gary Keim

ATK Group

\enddata{text,269862608}

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To: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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\begindata{text,2850472}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.andrew: 10-May-90 Re: bugs with help 
aliases Gary Keim@andrew.cmu.edu (835+0)}


\quotation{G\indent{o into /u/andrew and \bold{make dependInstall 
SUBDIRS="helpindex helpaliases"}.

}}
\quotation{Let me know what happens.  I think that the build failed and never 
got to those last two dirs.

}
\quotation{Gary Keim

}\quotation{ATK Group

}
Yep, that seems to fix it (though I would have sworn I had built those two). 
 Thanks.


Bill

\enddata{text,2850472}

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Message-ID: <MaGTi7O00VsW0CgpUN@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 May 90 19:38:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: pive@ccu.uia.ac.be
Subject: sun3_35 console problem
CC: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from misc: 8-May-90 Rerouting ... mailer%BANRUC01.BITN@vma (3327)

> After I have installed X fixes 1-9 and andrew patches 1-5, my console
> program does not work properly:
> when I start console, the console window pops up, with message
> initializing console <console_name>, this least for about four minutes,
> then the "normal" console window appears with the error message:
> console:<OpenConsoleSocket> gethostbyname failed  (10:46:49 ). And
> console does not take over /dev/console.

I think this is related to the resolver.  I'm not _real_ familiar with
this stuff but since nobody else has tried to answer your question I'll
give it a shot.

I know for a fact that a call to gethostbyname is failing.

First, change back the config files.

Now, run this command % nm /usr/lib/libc_p.a | egrep getdomainname.
If it is not found, #define GETDOMAIN_ENV 0 in your site.h.

Is libresolv.a only to be found in /usr/lib?  How about /usr/local/lib?

You are redefining XUTILDIR in site.mcr:

Excerpts from misc: 8-May-90 Rerouting ... mailer%BANRUC01.BITN@vma (3327)

> site.mcr
> /* Empty site.mcr file.  Use this file to hold all */
> /* your site's changes to allsys.mcr and system.mcr. */
> XUTILDIR = /usr/bin/X11
> RESOLVLIB = /usr/lib/libresolv.a

You now should also redefine in your site.mcr anything in allsys.mcr
that uses XUTILDIR, namely:
XMAKEDEPEND = $(XUTILDIR)/makedepend
IMAKE = $(XUTILDIR)/imake

I don't know if that is the problem or not.

I hope you figure this all out and I ask others that might understand
this issue a bit more to contribute their ideas.

By the way, anyone else with sun3_35 systems having this problem?

Gary Keim
ATK Group
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Date: 11 May 90 17:41:47 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!turbo.bio.net!lear@ucsd.edu  (Eliot)
Organization: GenBank Computing Resource for Mol. Biology
Subject: MS_GetAssocTime
Message-Id: <May.11.10.41.47.1990.28820@turbo.bio.net>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


Can someone tell me what this function call is?  It appears to be
bombing when called from captions.c, which causes a dialogue box to
pop up in messages and complain that it cannot set the profile for
a folder, with a message like "(message too large message too large
[sic])".

Any ideas?
-- 
Eliot Lear
[lear@turbo.bio.net]
\enddata{text822, 79891}
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Date: Fri, 11 May 90 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: MS_GetAssocTime
In-Reply-To: <May.11.10.41.47.1990.28820@turbo.bio.net>
References: <May.11.10.41.47.1990.28820@turbo.bio.net>

Well, this is supposed to get the time stamp of the last-seen message
for a given folder.  It could mean any number of things; perhaps your
~/.AMS.prof somehow got corrupted?  There's a lot of code that is
supposed to notice, inform you, and do some corrections if this gets
corrupted, but maybe it didn't catch your corruption.    -- Nathaniel
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Message-ID: <saGm_Gm00VsPM4SUFA@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 May 90 16:37:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 1630+1
Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Bulletin Board Administration <bb+andy.ness@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: runapp overhead

\begindata{text,269419956}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
The original forerunner of the nessrun program was developed prior to the 
creation of runapp and did not utilize the app interface.  In an effort to 
modernize, I wrote an app version in the expectation of some performance 
improvement since the binary for ATK is already loaded into my swap space as 
part of ez, typescript, and console.


After building the new interface, I tested three approaches:


\description{nessrunapp - Nessruna.c is a subclass of app and the program is 
executed via runapp.

nessrun - Nessrun.c is a standalone application which dynamically loads most 
objects it utilizes.

goodness - Goodness.c is identical to nessrun.c except that it statically 
loads most objects.}


Here are the timings (in seconds).  Each version was run once to ensure 
fetching all files and was then timed for three runs.  Results accurately 
reflects performance because the variances were low.  The compilation and 
execution times are those reported by Ness and reflect wall clock time 
differences.

\begindata{table,270441060}
\rows 0 21 21 20 20 0 0 0 0
\cols 125 99 99 99
 	"nessrunapp	"nessrun	"goodness
	-	-	-
total elapsed time	| {F0} 10.0	{G0} 8	{F0} 6
compilation time	| {F3} =.009	{F3} 1.9	{F3} 2.4
execution time	| {G3} =.019	{G3} =.021	{G3} 0.027
user state time	| {G1} 2.6	{G1} 1.5	{G1} 1.2
system state time	| {G1} 1.6	{G1} 1.4	{G1} =.9
memory occupacy	| {G0} 302	{G0} 149	{G0} 144
I/O ops	| {G0} 199	{G0} 174	{G0} 146
page faults	| {G0} 12	{G0} 9	{G0} 11
\enddata{table,270441060}
\view{spread,270441060,8,0,0}


Notes:


The time differences of 2 seconds are independent of the size or running time 
of the Ness program.


The reported compilation time for nessrunapp is so small because all the 
loading and linking overheads are absorbed before the compilation begins.  For 
goodness the times are higher for dynamic linking, which happens even without 
dynamic loading.


The overall elapsed times correlate well with the memory occupancy and better 
with the number of I/O operations.  Of course the way that most of the memory 
gets occupied in this program is by reading in the program pieces.  (With 
dynamic loading, the program pieces go into dynamic memory.)\
\enddata{text,269419956}

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Date: Fri, 11 May 90 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject:  psroff (CAT troff to postscript/ditroff converter)

[ I saw this new message about psroff, and thought it might be of
interest to some readers of this list.  Note that this package is not
sufficient for printing of non-text Andrew, though it works OK for text
objects.  -- Bill ]

From: clewis@eci386.uucp (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.sources,comp.sources.bugs
Subject: psroff 2.0 & 1.0
Date: 8 May 90 17:10:25 GMT
Reply-To: clewis@eci386 (Chris Lewis)
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Toronto, Canada

For you psroff fans (the CAT troff to postscript/ditroff and 
HP laserjets converter), two things:

psroff 2.0 is currently in Alpha test, and will probably be coming out 
for general use fairly shortly.  A synopsis of changes (or at least
better tested support):

    Ditroff driving:
	- jetroff driving HPLaserjets (except bitmaps)
	- tpscript
	- psdit
	- xtroff (X windows)
	- xproof (AT&T DMD terminals - but you guys usually have ditroff
	  anyways)

    Postscript driving:
	- any postscript printer with a reasonable font set.  Including
	  HPLJ's with Postscript cartridges (eg: Pacific Page or HP).

    HPLJ driving:
	- (and clones) from HPLJ and upwards.  In particular, font downloading 
	  (HPLJ+ or better only) with both SFP and PK format font files.
	- configurable incremental/partial/full downloading of either
	  PK's or SFP's.
	- Deskjet (should be identical to HPLJ).
	- No font cartridge support included.
    
    Explicit character mapping overrides etc.

It's faster, installs better (eg: generating width tables from font files,
has support for "funny" troff's), supports partial (but not incremental 
yet) HPLJ font downloading, near useable with psfig etc. ....
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Date: May 12, 1990  16:26:10
From: mailer%BANRUC01.BITNET@vma.cc.cmu.edu
Subject: Rerouting ...
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Message-Id: <saH1mydY0005M0kkke@rucageo>
Date: Sat, 12 May 90 16:25:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Pieter Verhaeghe <pive%rucageo@vma.cc.cmu.edu>
To: info-andrew%andrew.cmu.edu%maze@vma.cc.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: sun3_35 console problem
In-Reply-To: <MaGTi7O00VsW0CgpUN@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <MaGTi7O00VsW0CgpUN@andrew.cmu.edu>

>I read some sources, and finaly I was able to get things working:
I build everything without using libresolv.a except of ams and atkams
which I build with libresolv.a (I found that they defined  some
functions the same). (I build ams and atkams with because some functions
are not defined in /lib/libc.a)
Can someone tell me:
1. if this is "legal" to do
2. how does it comes that without applying the paches I could build
everything with libresolv.a

>I found another small bug: when I did 'make Makefiles' (after applying
imake), SYS_IDENT was defined as sun3_4. (data: sun 3/60 os 3.5) So
changed andrew/config/imake.tmpl: instead of (line 49) #define sunV3 0 I
used: #define sunV3 1

>I still have a few questions:

1. Our local hardware configuration implies that 70% of my E-mail is
forwarded from another hosts. So the from and the subject headers are
always the same (From: <PIVE@MAZE>, Subject: FORWARDING FROM PIVE@MAZE),
using flames I was able to strip off those stupid headers, but I
couldn't change the file .MS_MsgDir (except by hand: removing the file,
and reconstructing the folder with cui). I know of the existance of the
function 'setcaption' in flames, but I couldn't put the caption string
in a "standard" form
e.g. 14-Apr-90     The listing you wanted
andrew-service+archi@and (6766)
Can someone help me please?

2. One about console. Is it possible to let the console beep (when mail
arrives, when I send ctrl-G to /dev/console, when the alarm
"rings",...), and is it possible to make a fake entry in /usr/adm/utmp?

3. zip still crashes my Xserver in a horrible way (I can't login as root
anymore, so the only thing that I can do is to reboot). HELP.

4. This one isn't the most important, but...
Does there exists some good games using the andrew toolkit?

Thanks in advance.




P. Verhaeghe
University of Antwerp, RUCA
Algebra / Geometry
Groenenborgerlaan 171
B-2020 Antwerpen, Belgium

Tel: +32 3 2180308
Fax: +32 3 2180217
Telex: RUCABI 33362

E-mail: pive@banruc01.bitnet (or pive@ccu.uia.ac.be)


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Message-Id: <8aHL6BG0M2YtQ9Um1J@thumper.bellcore.com>
Date: Sun, 13 May 90 10:39:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Bulletin Board Administration <bb+andy.ness@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: runapp overhead
In-Reply-To: <saGm_Gm00VsPM4SUFA@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <saGm_Gm00VsPM4SUFA@andrew.cmu.edu>

Fred's figures would seem to be further evidence for something I've
contended for some time, namely that a single huge binary (which I've
been thinking of as "maxrunapp" that included all the objects you ever
use would be the most efficient way to run Andrew, especially on a
timesharing environment with X terminals.  One of these days, if I have
the time, I might even build such a beast (linking in, for example, all
of AMS and all of the commonly-used insets) and produce a similar table
regarding Messages peformance.  I think it would be a big performance
win in most environments.  -- NB
\enddata{text822, 93662}
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To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Rerouting ...
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	<saH1mydY0005M0kkke@rucageo>

\begindata{text,2597576}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 12-May-90 Rerouting ... 
mailer%BANRUC01.BITN@vma (2030)}


\quotation{1. Our local hardware configuration implies that 70% of my E-mail 
is

}\quotation{forwarded from another hosts. So the from and the subject headers 
are

}\quotation{always the same (From: <PIVE@MAZE>, Subject: FORWARDING FROM 
PIVE@MAZE),

}\quotation{using flames I was able to strip off those stupid headers, but I

}\quotation{couldn't change the file .MS_MsgDir (except by hand: removing the 
file,

}\quotation{and reconstructing the folder with cui). I know of the existance 
of the

}\quotation{function 'setcaption' in flames, but I couldn't put the caption 
string

}\quotation{in a "standard" form

}\quotation{e.g. 14-Apr-90     The listing you wanted

}\quotation{andrew-service+archi@and (6766)

}\quotation{Can someone help me please?

}
If you found "setcaption" you're almost there.  You should also notice that 
there is a "getcaption" that you can use to get the caption it builds by 
default.  You can then take, for exmaple, the first 10 characters of that to 
get the date and a trailing space character.  Beyond that, you can append 
whatever you want to it.  My advice would be to check to see if it is one of 
your forwarded messages, and if so, to replace the caption with a string made 
up of the first ten characters of the caption, the first 20 or so characters 
of the Subject header, and the first 20 or so characters of the From header. 
 Warning:  Your FLAMES code should check for NIL returns from the getheader 
functions, because these will return NIL if, for example, there isn't any From 
heeader.  The string operations (e.g. to get the first 20 characters of a 
string) will mostly error out if you pass NIL instead of a string.


\quotation{2. One about console. Is it possible to let the console beep (when 
mail

}\quotation{arrives, when I send ctrl-G to /dev/console, when the alarm

}\quotation{"rings",...), and is it possible to make a fake entry in 
/usr/adm/utmp?

}
The real problem here is getting the beep through to the X server.  There 
isn't currently a way do that directly from console, but you could use a 
!@#EXEC string (see the LACC documentation) to run a program that makes X 
beep, if you're willing to write such a program...


\enddata{text,2597576}

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Date: Sun, 13 May 90 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Dialog Box idea

We all know that the dialog box code is fatally flawed in the way it has
to redraw everything, rather than create a pop-up window.  We also know
that it would be a fair amount of work to rewrite it.  But it just
occurred to me that there might be an easy way to get something that was
faster in performance, if not more aesthetically pleasing.

How about if there was an option that said "whenever there's supposed to
be a dialog box, pop me up a menu that I have to select from".  This
could be an X-only option (it is probably harder under WM), since X is
where the dialog box speed is most painful anyway.  The only thing 
you'd have to change in cmenu is to add an option that says "this pop-up
menu MUST be answered -- you can't get rid of it by moving far away" but
other than that it would behave just like what you get when you click
the second button quickly, except of course that the contents of the
menu would be the dialog box options rather than the current menus. 
(The current dialog box already sets up such a mennu, so implementing
this option would simply be a matter of NOT painting the dialog box and
FORCING up the menus.)

What this is, of course, is a cheap way of getting dialog-box
functionality with the save-under semantics that cmenu already provides.
 It is certainly also possible to modify the dialog box code  to do
this, but the cmenu-based change is probably a real quick hack.

Just an idea...
\enddata{text822, 99671}
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\begindata{text,18442644}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\quotation{\bold{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 11-May-90 runapp overhead 
Fred Hansen (1630+1)}

}
[Table of numbers deleted.]


I would appreciate it if Fred would make the following information available:


- M\leftindent{achine type and configuration used for the test.}

- O\leftindent{ther system activity at the time (especially other runapp 
invocations).}

- T\leftindent{he specific UNIX commands or system calls used to obtain these 
numbers.}

- W\leftindent{hat specifically is dynamically loaded by each of these 
programs.}

- A\leftindent{ list of the specific objects that are statically loaded by 
nessrun and goodness.}


\quotation{Notes:

}
\quotation{The time differences of 2 seconds are independent of the size or 
running time of the Ness program.

}
\quotation{The reported compilation time for nessrunapp is so small because 
all the loading and linking overheads are absorbed before the compilation 
begins.  For goodness the times are higher for dynamic linking, which happens 
even without dynamic loading.

}
This explanation strikes me a suspect given that nessrun should have to do 
exactly the same dynamic linking operations that goodness does (plus some real 
dynamic loading), yet nessrun has a smaller compilation time than goodness.


\quotation{The overall elapsed times correlate well with the memory occupancy 
and better with the number of I/O operations.  Of course the way that most of 
the memory gets occupied in this program is by reading in the program pieces. 
 (With dynamic loading, the program pieces go into dynamic memory.)

}
Which program do you mean? In the runapp example, dynamically loaded program 
text shouldn't dominate the memory occupancy unless the ness .do is huge. In 
the case of goodness, it isn't supposed to be dynamically loading anything


 In order to draw real conclusions one would need to know where in the system 
the time is being spent. Fortunately, that can be measured.


\quotation{\bold{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 13-May-90 Re: runapp 
overhead Nathaniel Borenstein@thu (595)}

}
\quotation{Fred's figures would seem to be further evidence for something I've

}\quotation{contended for some time, namely that a single huge binary (which 
I've

}\quotation{been thinking of as "maxrunapp" that included all the objects you 
ever

}\quotation{use would be the most efficient way to run Andrew, especially on a

}\quotation{timesharing environment with X terminals.}


Nathaniel, would you explain your reasoning here. I don't see evidence in the 
numbers Fred posted to support your statement.


Recent operating system advances are making the runapp idea obsolete. In 
particular, AIX version 3 provides dynamic linking which supports shared text 
of dynamic objects. System V release 4 supports dynamic linking as well, but I 
do not know if all processes using a dynamic object will share the dynamically 
loaded text.


Sincerely,

Zalman Stern, zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu

Information Technology Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890

*** Friends don't let friends program in C++ ***

\enddata{text,18442644}

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\begindata{text,2692576}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 13-May-90 Re: runapp 
overhead Zalman Stern@andrew.cmu. (2832+0)}


\quotation{Nathaniel, would you explain your reasoning here. I don't see 
evidence in the numbers Fred posted to support your statement.

}
Well, assuming that Fred's numbers are reasonably correct, it would seem to 
supply evidence that any given ATK application will load (and hence run) more 
quickly if it is not dynamically loaded.  Now, it is already clear that a 
maxrunapp program would be best for ongoing memory usage in a timeshared 
environment, because the program code would be shared.  (Currently if two 
people run Messages on the same machine, they each have their own copy of the 
dynamically loaded AMS code, and are sharing only runapp.)  I saw Fred's 
numbers as evidence that not only would a statically loaded maxrunapp optimize 
global performance in this environment, but it would also speed up the program 
startup for each individual user, that's all.


\quotation{Recent operating system advances are making the runapp idea 
obsolete. In particular, AIX version 3 provides dynamic linking which supports 
shared text of dynamic objects. System V release 4 supports dynamic linking as 
well, but I do not know if all processes using a dynamic object will share the 
dynamically loaded text.

}
This is right on the money.  At the very least, there should now be a way to 
turn off all dynamic loading in ATK in favor of an OS facility like SunOS 
shared libraries.  At Bellcore, I'd happily give up dynamic loading in an 
instant to use the shared libraries instead.  If there were a way to build 
Andre without dynamic loading, that would also be a big help for running 
Andrew on machines to which the dynamic loader has not yet been ported.


The runapp idea is definitely becoming obsolete, so I'm happy we can at least 
agree on the bottom line.  -- Nathaniel


\enddata{text,2692576}

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\begindata{text,3627032}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 14-May-90 Re: runapp overhead 
Nathaniel Borenstein@thu (1846+0)}


\quotation{\quotation{Recent operating system advances are making the runapp 
idea obsolete. In particular, AIX version 3 provides dynamic linking which 
supports shared text of dynamic objects. System V release 4 supports dynamic 
linking as well, but I do not know if all processes using a dynamic object 
will share the dynamically loaded text.

}}
\quotation{This is right on the money.  At the very least, there should now be 
a way to turn off all dynamic loading in ATK in favor of an OS facility like 
SunOS shared libraries.  At Bellcore, I'd happily give up dynamic loading in 
an instant to use the shared libraries instead.  If there were a way to build 
Andre without dynamic loading, that would also be a big help for running 
Andrew on machines to which the dynamic loader has not yet been ported.

}
\quotation{The runapp idea is definitely becoming obsolete, so I'm happy we 
can at least agree on the bottom line.  -- Nathaniel

}
So, is anyone working on doing the necessary Imake/Makefile munging to build a 
version of Andrew that would use the native dynamic linking facilties of the 
OS instead of Andrew's own? I would love to know about any such effort. 
Specifically, I would like to see a version of Andrew that used the SunOS 
shared libraris  As a matter of fact I'd do it myself if I could find the 
time. - Jishnu Mukerji (jis@mtgzx.att.com).


\enddata{text,3627032}

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\begindata{text,270573248}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Last week I reported some statistics comparing an app versus two standalone 
programs.  It was not my intention to draw conclusions about the value of the 
app scheme; it seems to me the app scheme is of enormous value for reducing 
paging and swap space requirements.  However, further analysis has shown that 
the unshared data segment portion of runapp is responsible for a delay of at 
least 2 seconds in starting up a program.


Since the original note, I discovered that goodness, which is supposed to not 
use dynamic loading, was still dynamically loading the following:   wws.do, 
graphic.do, fontdesc.do, keystate.do, style.do, atomlist.do, lpair.do, 
scroll.do, matte.do, cel.do, arbiterv.do, celv.do, valuev.do.  I revised it to 
load only the last four (which are not in a library so cannot be statically 
loaded) and so reduced the running time from 6 seconds to 4.  Also the 
'compilation'time was reduced from 2.4 to 1.3 seconds.  (It is not actually 
compilation time because the Ness translator converts to a byte code rather 
than to machine language.)  


In the version of the information table presented below, times are in seconds 
and memory sizes in kilobytes.  The new table includes both the old and new 
versions of goodness;  and I have split out the memory occupancy.

\begindata{table,270942024}
\rows 0 21 21 20 20 0 0 0 0 0
\cols 125 99 101 99 99
 	"nessrunapp	"nessrun	"old goodness	"goodness
	-	-	-	-
total elapsed time	| {F0} 10.0	{G0} 8	{F0} 6	{F0} 4
compilation time	| {F3} =.009	{F3} 1.9	{F3} 2.4	{F3} 1.3
execution time	| {G3} =.019	{G3} =.021	{G3} 0.027	{G3} 0.024
user state time	| {G1} 2.6	{G1} 1.5	{G1} 1.2	{F1} =.97
system state time	| {G1} 1.6	{G1} 1.4	{G1} =.9	{G1} =.7
shared memory	| {G0} 102	{G0} 28	{F0} 36	{F0} 41
unshared memory	| {G0} 203	{G0} 123	{G0} 108	{G0} 93
I/O ops	| {G0} 199	{G0} 174	{G0} 146	{G0} 92
page faults	| {G0} 12	{G0} 9	{G0} 11	{G0} 13
\enddata{table,270942024}
\view{spread,270942024,9,0,0}


Now let me answer Z's questions:


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 13-May-90 Re: runapp overhead Zalman 
Stern (2832+0)}


\quotation{- M\leftindent{achine type and configuration used for the test.}

}
IBM RT running R3 version of AOS 4.3.  8 MB core.  35MB swap space.  Large AFS 
cache.  There was little paging and no file fetching during the tests.


\quotation{- O\leftindent{ther system activity at the time (especially other 
runapp invocations).}

}
One each: console, typescript, and ez.  I kept my hands off the mouse and 
keyboard.  Console usurped about 5% of CPU time.


\quotation{- T\leftindent{he specific UNIX commands or system calls used to 
obtain these numbers.}

}
	foreach d (a b c)

	time  \italic{programname}  hello.n

	end


The compilation and execution times are reported by Ness and are computed from 
calls on event_Now(), which calls osi_GetTimes(), which calls gettimeofday(). 
 To get the number of I/O operations, I added the two figures reported by 
`time`; in general there were around 20 output operations.


\quotation{- W\leftindent{hat specifically is dynamically loaded by each of 
these programs.}

}\quotation{- A\leftindent{ list of the specific objects that are statically 
loaded by nessrun and goodness.}

}
The following are statically loaded for nessrun:

\leftindent{observable, proctable, dataobject, im, ness, nessmark, lexdef, 
lex, sym, toksym, nesssym}

In addition, goodness also statically loads

\leftindent{text, filetype, simpletext, cursor, event, stylesheet, nestedmark, 
environment, textview, bind, keyrec, updatelist, atom, windowsystem, menulist, 
keymap, environ, namespace, mark, view}


The fact that files are prefetched makes a huge difference.  Even when 
stripped the two programs are far bigger than the app:

\leftindent{nessruna.do	  3564 

goodness	628736

nessrun	428032}

Depending on network and server overheads, there could be a lengthy fetch wait 
for goodness or nessrun the first time it was called.  There are also fetch 
waits for the dynamically loaded objects;  most of these will not be 
prefetched by other applications because they are part of runapp.


Here is a breakdown on the binary for nessrun.  Sizes are in thousands of 
bytes:

\begindata{table,270903128}
 	"executable	"data
 	"text	"segment
	-	-
Ness	| 76	41
other classes	| 50	15
class & util	| 42	20
AFS	| 34	11
libm.a	| 18	52
libc.a	| 50	16
other	|  	27
\enddata{table,270903128}
\view{spread,270903128,10,0,0}

(All of libm.a gets loaded because Ness has a function for each function of 
libm.)


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 13-May-90 Re: runapp overhead Zalman 
Stern (2832+0)}


\quotation{\quotation{The reported compilation time for nessrunapp is so small 
because all the loading and linking overheads are absorbed before the 
compilation begins.  For goodness the times are higher for dynamic linking, 
which happens even without dynamic loading.

}}
\quotation{This explanation strikes me a suspect given that nessrun should 
have to do exactly the same dynamic linking operations that goodness does 
(plus some real dynamic loading), yet nessrun has a smaller compilation time 
than goodness.

}
In experiments today the times for 'compilation' varied considerably depending 
on what was dynamically loaded and whether it had to be fetched.  The 
initialization phase of the ness compiler calls class_Load for a number of 
classes (cel, arbiterview, text, textview, dataobject, lpair, scroll, matte, 
view, celview, valueview, im) and these are fetched/loaded during the phase of 
the program that is timed as part of 'compilation'.  With runapp, these 
classes are already loaded, but they had to be dynamically loaded in the other 
two programs.


The question then becomes:  Why is the solution with runapp slowest overall? 
 Apparently this is due to the much higher memory occupancy with runapp.  It 
is true that the text segment of runapp (508k) is shared among all 
applications.  However, runapp also has a data segment of 176k which must be 
read in to memory for every application.  Think about it: To run any program 
as an app you must have all the initialized data areas and constants for most 
ATK object classes, ez, typescript, and even console!


\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 13-May-90 Re: runapp overhead Zalman 
Stern (2832+0)}


\quotation{\quotation{\bold{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 13-May-90 Re: 
runapp overhead Nathaniel Borenstein@thu (595)}

}}
\quotation{\quotation{Fred's figures would seem to be further evidence for 
something I've

}}\quotation{\quotation{contended for some time, namely that a single huge 
binary (which I've

}}\quotation{\quotation{been thinking of as "maxrunapp" that included all the 
objects you ever

}}\quotation{\quotation{use would be the most efficient way to run Andrew, 
especially on a

}}\quotation{\quotation{timesharing environment with X terminals.}

}
\quotation{Nathaniel, would you explain your reasoning here. I don't see 
evidence in the numbers Fred posted to support your statement.

}
The problem with a `maxrunapp` would be time for initialization of the data 
segment and greater memory occupancy by the data segment.

\enddata{text,270573248}

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Date: 15 May 90 17:42:19 GMT
From: auspex!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
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Subject: Re: runapp overhead
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>Recent operating system advances are making the runapp idea obsolete. In
>particular, AIX version 3 provides dynamic linking which supports shared
>text of dynamic objects. System V release 4 supports dynamic linking as
>well, but I do not know if all processes using a dynamic object will
>share the dynamically loaded text.

They will, except for any pages that require relocation to be done on
their contents; hopefully, code for dynamically-linked objects will be
built with the "-pic" flag (or whatever AT&T renamed that flag to, if
they decided that it was Evil for not following the command syntax
standard) so that it will require little, if any, relocation.

As you might guess from the "-pic", the S5R4 dynamic linking mechanism
is based on that of SunOS 4.x; both SunOS 4.1 and S5R4 support the same
basic run-time interface to the dynamic linker ("dlopen()", "dlsym()",
"dlclose()", "dlerror()").
\enddata{text822, 122080}
\begindata{text822, 124320}
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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 20:05:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Douglas F. DeJulio" <dd26+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: runapp overhead
In-Reply-To: <3352@auspex.auspex.com>
References: <saGm_Gm00VsPM4SUFA@andrew.cmu.edu>, <YaHWGay00asBEG=Uhf@andrew.cmu.edu>,
	<3352@auspex.auspex.com>

With all these people talking about using native dynamic linkers
instead of runapp...

Does anyone have any idea when dynamic linking will be available for
Ultrix?  Is something similar available under Mach right now?
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Date: Thu, 17 May 90 19:17:12 PDT
From: <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: suggested addition for glist

I've been using the glist class with some success, except that I keep having
to add this method:

static void glist_Enumerate (gl, proc, rock)
     struct glist *gl;
     void (*proc)();
     unsigned long rock;
{
  struct glistelt *elt;

  if (gl == NULL || proc == NULL)
    return;
  for (elt = gl->head;  elt != NULL;  elt = elt->next)
    (*proc)(elt->this, rock);
}

Any hope to have it added to the class definition?

(and it would be nice to have a "map" method added to the hash class.  I can
send the code for that as well.)

Bill

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Date: Fri, 18 May 90 14:20:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: convertraster inverts xwd files
In-Reply-To: <0aISYJkB0KGW4wMJRe@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <0aISYJkB0KGW4wMJRe@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,270564680}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 16-May-90 convertraster 
inverts xwd f.. Bill Janssen@parc.xerox. (82)}


\quotation{Convertraster seems to invert bitmaps that are read from xwd-format 
files.

}
\quotation{Bill

}
This is a bug in convertraster.  Presumably due to the fact that the internal 
format for rasters uses one for black and zero for white.


Until the bug is fixed, you can workaround the problem by giving the -n flag 
to convertraster.  This inverts the converted image.


Fred Hansen


\enddata{text,270564680}

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Message-Id: <UaJ5dSsGG02=17qQ9B@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 May 90 16:26:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Cattey <wdc@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>,
        "Wilfred J. Hansen,,CMU ITC,412-268-6788," <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: convertraster inverts xwd files
In-Reply-To: <AaJ3nQi00VsPECkIFs@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <0aISYJkB0KGW4wMJRe@holmes.parc.xerox.com>,
	<AaJ3nQi00VsPECkIFs@andrew.cmu.edu>

Fred, Bill,  I'm confused here.

The xwd code we sent takes into consideration the fact that the two
standards use different codes for black and white.

When I make an X window dump on my VAX3100, use convertraster to convert
it to an ATK raster file, and then read it into ez, I do NOT get
inverted colors.

Bill, do you run your X universe in reverse video through X resources?

-wdc
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Date: Fri, 18 May 90 18:02:07 -0400 (EDT)
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: ATUG schedule

\begindata{text,270146968}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}



\majorheading{\bigger{\bigger{\bigger{\bold{\bigger{The First Annual


Andrew Toolkit


User Group Meeting}}

}}}}\center{
}\center{\
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\view{rasterview,270325316,0,0,0}

}

\bold{\center{\bigger{\bigger{May 25, 1990

San Jose Convention Center


}}}}
\center{
}\center{\italic{Presented by the}


\bold{\bigger{Information Technology Center}}



 \
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}\center{\bigger{Conference Chair}


\bigger{\italic{Thomas P. Neuendorffer

}}}\
\begindata{bp,270567452}
\enddata{bp,270567452}
\view{bpv,270567452,3,0,0}\smaller{
\center{Session 1 , 9:00 a.m. - 10:30 a.m.


\bold{Opening Address 

}\italic{Andy Palay - ITC}


\bold{An ATK success story -

A Complete Set of Microcode Development Tools Created with ATK}

\italic{Andy Arhelger - IBM Rochester 

}
\bold{Applications of the Andrew Toolkit in a Software Development 
Environment}\bold{

}\italic{Charles Hayden - Bell Labs

}
Break


Session 2, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.


\bold{Extending Documents, Building Applications, and Writing Programs with 
Ness

}\italic{W. J. Hansen - ITC

}
\bold{Native Language and TeX Support for ATK

}\italic{Kazuhiro Kitagawa - Kieo University

}
\bold{ATK Color Support and the Great American History Machine 

}\italic{Stephan Greene - CMU}


Lunch 


Session 3, 1:30 p.m. - 3:00 p.m.


\bold{Porting ATK to OS2 / Presentation Manager}\bold{

}\italic{Paul Koenen - IBM Poughkeepsie

}
\bold{ATK Use at MIT Project Athena

}\italic{Bill Cattey - Project Athena MIT

}
\bold{A Motif Look and Feel for ATK

}\italic{Mark Pawliger - IBM Palo Alto

}\italic{Rich Pusateri - Knowledge Set

}
Break


Session 4, 3:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.


\bold{Architectural Enhancements to ATK

}\italic{David Anderson - ITC

}
\bold{OOPC - A Proposed Replacement for Class

}\italic{Miles Bader, Andy Palay - ITC

}
\bold{A Display Postscript Extension for ATK

}\italic{Zalman Stern - ITC}}}\center{\italic{

}}\enddata{text,270146968}

\enddata{text822, 131535}
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Date: 19 May 90 20:23:10 GMT
From: convex!datri@uunet.uu.net  (Anthony A. Datri)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation; Richardson, TX
Subject: Re: convertraster inverts xwd files
Message-Id: <102416@convex.convex.com>
References: <0aISYJkB0KGW4wMJRe@holmes.parc.xerox.com>, <AaJ3nQi00VsPECkIFs@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>> Convertraster seems to invert bitmaps that are read from xwd-format files.

Is the ability to read xwd files at all something added to convertraster
since the X11R4 tape release?  I can find no evidence of it.
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Date: Mon, 21 May 90 23:05:40 EDT
From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu>
Message-Id: <9005220305.AA19438@maytag.waterloo.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: does anybody have AMS running on a MIPS?

I just fetched a copy of the Andrew source, and find it lacks system-specific
stuff for MIPS machines.  Does anybody have Andrew running on a true MIPS
(not DEC-MIPS) box yet?

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@watmath.uwaterloo.ca
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Message-Id: <9005221520.AA10214@maytag.waterloo.edu>
To: gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu, info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re:  does anybody have AMS running on a MIPS?

  Date: Mon, 21 May 90 23:05:40 EDT
  From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath>
  To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
  
  I just fetched a copy of the Andrew source, and find it lacks system-specific
  stuff for MIPS machines.  Does anybody have Andrew running on a true MIPS
  (not DEC-MIPS) box yet?

Or, failing that, could somebody explain exactly what is being done in
overhead/class/machdep/dec_mips, and I'll try making it work on my MIPS box.
Thanks.

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@watmath.uwaterloo.ca
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Date: Wed, 23 May 90 18:19:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject:  graphic_SetForegroundColor

It is convenient to use the #RRGGBB notation with the X color system. 
So long as ATK does not maintain its own database of colornames, it
should probably also allow this notation.  This would mean changing a
line in atk/basics/x/xgraphic.c, in
xgraphic_Set{Foreground,Background}Color, to be something like the
following.  Notice the use of XParseColor and XAllocColor, rather than a
single call to XAllocNamedColor.

Bill

void xgraphic__SetForegroundColor(self, colorName, red, blue, green)
    struct xgraphic * self;
    char *colorName;
    long red, blue, green;
{
    long status;
    XColor desiredColor;

    /* Two step process -- alloc the color (I hope it is reused, but the
manual is silent on this) and set the foreground accordingly */
    if (colorName != NULL) {
        status = XParseColor(xgraphic_XDisplay(self),
DefaultColormap(xgraphic_XDisplay(self)), colorName, &desiredColor);
        if (status)
            status = XAllocColor(xgraphic_XDisplay(self),
DefaultColormap(xgraphic_XDisplay(self)), &desiredColor);
    }
    else {
	desiredColor.red = red;
	desiredColor.blue = blue;
	desiredColor.green = green;
	desiredColor.flags = DoRed | DoGreen | DoBlue;
	status = XAllocColor(xgraphic_XDisplay(self),
DefaultColormap(xgraphic_XDisplay(self), xgraphic_XScreen(self)),
&desiredColor);
    }
    if (!status) {
	desiredColor.pixel = BlackPixel(xgraphic_XDisplay(self),
xgraphic_XScreen(self));
    }
    super_SetForegroundColor(self, colorName, desiredColor.red,
desiredColor.blue, desiredColor.green);

\enddata{text822, 140446}
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Date: Wed, 23 May 90 17:59:09 EDT
From: bill@allegra.tempo.nj.att.com (Bill Schell)
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: help with problem getting timely view updating

Greetings fellow ATK'ers!  Perhaps someone could help me out with a
problem I'm having getting a textview to update itself when I want it
to?  I've been beating on it all day to no avail.

I'm writing a view which creates a second independent window using
im_Create().  The second window is just a textview with a scrollbar.
When I change the text and do a text_NotifyObservers, the text isn't
updated right away, the update doesn't happen until the first window
is later updated.  I want it to be updated right after I call
text_NotifyObservers().  Doesn't im give each window a separate view
tree?  The code below is what I'm currently doing.  What's the right
way to do this?

Thanks,
	Bill Schell
	AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ
	bill@research.att.com or allegra!bill


--------------------------------------------------------------------
/* To initialize the second window, I execute the following code in 
the InitializeObject procedure for the view: */

t = text_New();
tview = textview_New();
textview_SetDataObject(tview, t);
tview_scroll = textview_GetApplicationLayer(tview);
pairview = lpair_new();
lpair_VSplit(pair_view, tview, tview_scroll, 100, 0);

/* Later on, when the user wants the second window to appear, I do */

newwindow = im_Create(NULL);
im_SetView(newwindow, pairview);

/* After changing the text object t, I do */
text_NotifyObservers(t, 0);

_________________________________________________________________

This doesn't immediately cause an update.  I don't get an update
until the first window gets updated later.

Thanks.
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Date: Thu, 24 May 90 09:28:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: help with problem getting timely view updating
Cc: bill@allegra.tempo.nj.att.com (Bill Schell)
In-Reply-To: <Added.4aKvmIq00UkT49Fk8r@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <Added.4aKvmIq00UkT49Fk8r@andrew.cmu.edu>

I believe that the NotifyObservers call will only guarantee that the
update happens eventually; the im's event management tends to batch
these things up until what is usually (but not always) a more
appropriate time.

You can, however, force the im to actually do all the pending updates by
calling im_ForceUpdate();.  If you want things to happen immediately,
you can add this after your text_NotifyObservers call.  However, you
should be sparing in your use of this call; if people start using it all
over the place without good reason, it will probably defeat some of the
optimizations in the im event management.  -- Nathaniel
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Date: Thu, 24 May 90 18:14:49 EDT
From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu>
Message-Id: <9005242214.AA01418@maytag.waterloo.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re:  does anybody have AMS running on a MIPS?

  From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath>
  Date: Tue, 22 May 90 11:20:29 EDT
  
  Or, failing that, could somebody explain exactly what is being done in
  overhead/class/machdep/dec_mips, and I'll try making it work on my MIPS box.

I think I figured it out.  Next dumb question:  how do I persuade imake to use
-lmld when compiling?  MIPS's nlist() isn't part of libc, so every program
that uses it must be loaded with cc -lmld.

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@watmath.uwaterloo.ca
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Date: Fri, 25 May 90 10:43:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: does anybody have AMS running on a MIPS?
Cc: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu>
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Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 24-May-90 Re: does anybody have AMS
.. Guy Middleton@watmath.wa (569)

> Next dumb question:  how do I persuade imake to use -lmld when
> compiling?  MIPS's nlist() isn't part of libc, so every program that
> uses it must be loaded with cc -lmld.

I'm not sure what the "right" way to do this is, but I suspect you can
get this effect by redefining "CDEBUGFLAGS" in site.mcr to include -lmld.

If there is a better way, perhaps someone from the ITC will point it
out.  (However, I believe most of them are in San Jose today, and won't
be answering until Monday.)  -- Nathaniel

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To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: ez suggestion

\begindata{text,268597040}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
I edit a lot of source files at a time (in another window, I count over 34 
files).  I used to keep multiple windows open all the time, but they take up a 
lot of screen real estate.  I have found the ^X^O key sequence invaluable for 
switching to files already loaded.  However, I have a suggestion that should 
be fairly easy to add that I think would be a nice enhancement.


Suggestion:  It would be nice if you could open another window associated with 
EZ that simply has a list of the files loaded in the buffer.  Whenever I click 
on a file name, it automatically switches me to that file.  I suppose if 
someone has multiple windows open, then the click could switch the file of the 
last used window.


This probably is a faily easy change.  You have the precedence already with 
your 'table of contents' feature that opens a second window.  However, instead 
of bouncing around the same file, I'd like to bounce between files.


Am I the only one with this interest?  I suspect this is probably the problem 
of a programmer with many source files using EZ...  If you add this suggestion 
to ez, I will definitely use it.


   - \underline{Anthony Edwards}

\enddata{text,268597040}

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To: info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: ctext suggestion

\begindata{text,268597040}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
While I'm making suggestions, I might as well mention something that I've put 
up with for a while...


Has anyone noticed how ctext auto-indent feature continues to work even inside 
comment blocks?  This is annoying because ctext wants semi-colons at the end 
of the line in order to line up with the line above it.  However, I very 
rarely add semi-colons to the end of my lines in a comment!  What tends to 
happen is that ctags indents 2 more spaces for the 2nd+ line of a comment. 
 However, as I use other puncutation (most particularly open

parenthesis toward the end of a line), ctext indents even more.


REALLY, when I'm in a comment, I just want the lines to line up below each 
other.  (While enhanhing this, it would be nice if comments automatically 
added the next '*' on the next line, too, but that would be for bonus points). 
 Try typing this comment using ctext:

\typewriter{	/* This is just a C comment.  Nothing fancy - 

	   it just has some general text (and perhaps

	   one note in parenthesis, too)

	*/}

You'll see that 'it' appears indented 2 characters over.  You'll see that "one 
note" is very far over to the right, starting just after the '('.  It looks 
like this:

	\typewriter{/* This is just a C comment.  Nothing fancy - 

	  it just has some general text (and perhaps

					  one note in parenthesis, too)

	  */}

Ideally, I'd like to to do this:

	\typewriter{/* This is just a C comment.  Nothing fancy - 

	 * it just has some general text (and perhaps

	 * one note in parenthesis, too)

	 */}


   - \underline{Anthony Edwards}

\enddata{text,268597040}

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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: postscript inset for ez

\begindata{text,268597040}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
Does anyone know if there is any work in progress on a postscript inset which 
understands postscript and displays it?  Maybe I'm thinking here about a 'zip' 
inset which keeps track of its information in postscript form.  But I'd settle 
for an inset that just displays postscript and doesn't edit it.

   - \underline{Anthony Edwards}

\enddata{text,268597040}

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From: Tim Hansell <hansell@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Message-Id: <9005252054.AA11880@oboe.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Help with Suite of Buttons !!
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Date: Fri, 25 May 90 16:54:16 EDT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Department: Department of Redundancy Department
Snail-Mail-Address: P.O. Box 687. South Charleston, Ohio 45368
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL0]

Okay, so I've used suite to creat a suite of buttons, and I've got a hit
handler to deal with the buttons that get hit.

The problem is when the user tries to hit a passive button, the application
halts, leaving no error messages.

It seems to me that this worked a day or two ago, but today it keeps
halting when I hit the passive buttons/

Any Hints ??

I could include the code but there is nothing outside the ordinary that I'm
doing. I've used bush as the template for creating a suite specification, and
the suite is going into an lpair.

-tim
-- 
Tim Hansell
hansell@cis.ohio-state.edu
P.O. Box 687 South Charleston, Ohio, 45268
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Date: Mon, 28 May 90 16:47:58 PDT
From: <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu, info-andrew-bugs@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: view_FullUpdate(view, view_Remove, ...)

I'm working on an inset view which parents an X window on top of the xim
window.  To manage this inset properly, it must get view_Remove `events'
properly.  I notice that when I embed my inset in a text object, visit the
text object with ez, and then switch to another buffer in the same window,
the inset does not get a call to view_FullUpdate(view, view_Remove, ...)
until one switches *back* to the buffer, in which case one receives the
view_Remove, followed immediately by a sequence which corresponds to the
non-existent view_Emplace.

When one scrolls the text in which my inset is embedded, it receives
view_Remove properly.

It seems from the code that someone is responsible for calling FullUpdate
on textview, with type == view_Remove.  What's actually happening is
that buffer_RemoveView is being called, which in turn calls view_UnlinkTree,
which in turn calls view_LinkTree.  It seems to me that view_LinkTree
should, when called with a parent of NULL, call view_FullUpdate on itself
with a type of view_Remove.

Comments?

Bill

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Date: 28 May 90 22:42:26 GMT
From: oracle!news@apple.com  (Jonathan Levine)
Organization: Oracle, Belmont, CA, USA
Subject: Is communication between ez and troff possible?
Message-Id: <JLEVINE.90May28154516@slothrop.oracle.com>
Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu


   I'm trying to put together a standard header/footer template for my group's
specification documents, and what I'd like to use is something akin to what one
often sees in troff'ed books:  

	Title Page		Even Page		Odd Page

header: [/CONFIDENTIAL/]	[Page #//Spec title]	[Chapter title//Page #]

footer: [Company/Page #/Group]	[CONFIDENTIAL//Company]	[Group//CONFIDENTIAL]

(Where stuff in the square brackets corresponds, as in .tl, to
[LeftTitle/CenterTitle/RightTitle])

   I've got the document-consistant values working (CONFIDENTIAL, Company,
etc.), but what I'd really like to do is have dynamically changing Chapter
Titles and Spec titles -- that is, when somebody puts something into
Title,Chapter format, the LeftTitle string is changed for the odd pages.
Has anybody done anything like this?  

Thanks,

Jon
--

------------------------------------------------------------------
From the Oracle*Desk of:		"Paradise is exactly like
Jonathan Levine 			 where you are right now,
Oracle*Mail Development			 only much, much better."
4248 1 Ann B. Davis Drive			-- Laurie Anderson
\enddata{text822, 163048}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 10:16:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Crockett <tom@icase.edu>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: ctext suggestion
In-Reply-To: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>
References: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>

\begindata{text,2902232}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 25-May-90 ctext 
suggestion Anthony Edwards@northsta (1498+0)}


\quotation{ (While enhanhing this, it would be nice if comments automatically 
added the next '*' on the next line, too, but that would be for bonus points).

}
Please, no!  It may fit your coding style, but it doesn't fit mine!\
\enddata{text,2902232}

\enddata{text822, 165428}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 12:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Carl M. Fongheiser" <cmf@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: ctext suggestion
In-Reply-To: <AaMcErn0_csmA8onUa@icase.edu>
References: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>,
	<AaMcErn0_csmA8onUa@icase.edu>

\begindata{text,1811320}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from info-andrew: 29-May-90 Re: ctext suggestion 
Tom Crockett@icase.edu (312+0)}


\quotation{\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 25-May-90 
ctext suggestion Anthony Edwards@northsta (1498+0)}

}
\quotation{\quotation{ (While enhanhing this, it would be nice if comments 
automatically added the next '*' on the next line, too, but that would be for 
bonus points).

}}
\quotation{Please, no!  It may fit your coding style, but it doesn't fit mine!

}
It would be *really* nice if these things were configurable, ala C-mode in a 
certain other editor that vaguely resembles ez :-)


				Carl Fongheiser

				cmf@unix.cis.pitt.edu\
\enddata{text,1811320}

\enddata{text822, 167199}
\begindata{text822, 169534}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 12:23:51 EDT
From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu>
Message-Id: <9005291623.AA13888@maytag.waterloo.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: bug in overhead/class/machdep/dec_mips/doload.c

Running off the end of an array; was causing core dumps on my MIPS machine.

*** /tmp/,RCSt1017745	Tue May 29 12:19:16 1990
--- doload.c	Mon May 28 20:31:41 1990
***************
*** 119,127 ****
          struct doload_section_description *thisDesc;
  
          safe_read(e, (char *)tempSection, (long)sizeof(*tempSection));
!         for (thisDesc = sectionDescs; thisDesc < sectionDescs +
!              sizeof(sectionDescs) && strcmp(tempSection->s_name,
!                                             thisDesc->name) != 0; thisDesc++)
              ;
  
          if (thisDesc < sectionDescs +
--- 119,127 ----
          struct doload_section_description *thisDesc;
  
          safe_read(e, (char *)tempSection, (long)sizeof(*tempSection));
!         for (thisDesc = sectionDescs;
! 	     thisDesc < sectionDescs + sizeof(sectionDescs)/sizeof(*thisDesc)
! 	     && strcmp(tempSection->s_name, thisDesc->name) != 0; thisDesc++)
              ;
  
          if (thisDesc < sectionDescs +

\enddata{text822, 169534}
\begindata{text822, 171555}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 12:25:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ctext suggestion
In-Reply-To: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>
References: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>

\begindata{text,20121492}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
One way of doing comments in ctext is simply to type everything on one line. 
 I use it all the time and haven't yet found a C compiler that complains about 
very long lines, all of which is a comment.


\quotation{\bold{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 25-May-90 ctext 
suggestion Anthony Edwards@northsta (1498+0)}

}
\typewriter{\quotation{	/* This is just a C comment.  Nothing fancy - 

}\quotation{	   it just has some general text (and perhaps

}\quotation{	   one note in parenthesis, too)

}}\quotation{\typewriter{	*/}

}
Your comment then becomes:


/* This is just a C comment.  Nothing fancy - it just has some general text 
(and perhaps one note in parenthesis, too) */


Ctext will obligingly put the whole thing in italics.


I've gotten to almost love my ctext over the last year or more, since I made 
it use the Andy font set (variable pitch, serifs).  Now if I could keep it 
from turning spaces into tabs early in the line when I hit the tab key.  (Yes, 
I understand how TAB typed after four spaces wants to replace those four 
spaces with a tab character.  I just don't want it to turn earlier spaces into 
tab characters too.)


		Craig

\enddata{text,20121492}

\enddata{text822, 171555}
\begindata{text822, 174056}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 14:14:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Neuendorffer <tpn+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
Subject: Re: ctext suggestion
In-Reply-To: <kaMe9lj0BwwO4Aon1y@transarc.com>
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	<kaMe9lj0BwwO4Aon1y@transarc.com>

\begindata{text,270200844}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from mail: 29-May-90 Re: ctext suggestion Craig F. 
Everhart (1052+0)}



\quotation{One way of doing comments in ctext is simply to type everything on 
one line.  I use it all the time and haven't yet found a C compiler that 
complains about very long lines, all of which is a comment.

}

The problem with this is that while long lines may not bother C compilers, 
 they can bother tools like \italic{ed} and \italic{diff}, and can thus render 
other tools (like \italic{patch}) useless.  We had a problem here with trying 
to send out a patch to a file with a very long line, and finding that we just 
couldn't do it. I would recommend against this practice. 


		Tom N.

\enddata{text,270200844}

\enddata{text822, 174056}
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Message-Id: <kaMekey00hsQ1=mVQT@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 May 90 13:06:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard.Draves@CS.CMU.EDU
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Content-Type: X-BE2; 12
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ctext suggestion
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References: <kaLLKYy1eVVaFBwxx1@northstar.dartmouth.edu>,
	<kaMe9lj0BwwO4Aon1y@transarc.com>

\begindata{text,1954608}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\quotation{\bold{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 29-May-90 Re: ctext 
suggestion Craig F. Everhart (1052+0)}

}
\quotation{One way of doing comments in ctext is simply to type everything on 
one line.  I use it all the time and haven't yet found a C compiler that 
complains about very long lines, all of which is a comment.

}
And people who don't love ez/ctext will hate you.


Rich

\enddata{text,1954608}

\enddata{text822, 176104}
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Date: Tue, 29 May 90 21:58:50 EDT
From: Guy Middleton <gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu>
Message-Id: <9005300158.AA08374@maytag.waterloo.edu>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: more MIPS porting questions (Ness)

I have another problem, this time with Ness:

---
building (dependInstall) (/home/gamiddleton/src/andrew/atk/ness/doc)
make DESTDIR=/software/andrew install
Checking Destination Directories....
-n
touch install.time
-n
(ANDREWDIR=/software/andrew; export ANDREWDIR; \
 CLASSPATH=/software/andrew/dlib/atk; export CLASSPATH; \
 WMHOST=; \
 /software/andrew/bin/nessrun present.n nessauth.d)
Compile error(s) in present.n
   at 2679 (len 5): syntax error
   source text is:       >>> while <<<  True do
---

Does anybody have any suggestions?  I'm sure there isn't really a syntax error
in present.n, and I can't find any machine-dependent code in Ness.

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@watmath.uwaterloo.ca
\enddata{text822, 178060}
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From: cameron@cs.flinders.oz.au (Cameron Humphries)
Message-Id: <9005300240.AA03715@kurango.cs.flinders.oz.au>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Trouble building the Andrew distribution
Date: Wed, 30 May 90 12:10:27 +0930

I recently (yesterday) started building the Andrew distribution as
it appears on the X11R4 contrib tapes.

I am trying to build it on a Sun4 running SunOS 4.0.3.

Everything appears to go fine until:
making (/ada/andrew/atk/basics/common)
/ada/andrew_inst/bin/makedo  -d /ada/andrew_inst/lib -b /ada/andrew_inst/bin -o
app.do app.o
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

The segmentation fault comes from "ld".

I have tried executing the offending command on its own and there
are no diagnostics generated.

Any ideas?

Cameron Humphries
Discipline of Computer Science                 email: cameron@cs.flinders.oz.au
School of Information Science and Technology   phone: +61 +8 201 2874
The Flinders University of South Australia     fax  : +61 +8 201 2904
\enddata{text822, 179863}
\begindata{text822, 181995}
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          Wed, 30 May 90 05:41:19 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <caMtIzS00asBI0VWxA@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 May 90 05:41:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Zalman Stern <zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Sun 4 dynamic loader problems.

\begindata{text,18489780}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
I talked to Bruce Blinn of Clarity Software and he is having problems with 
dofix on a Sun SparcStation 1 running SunOS 4.1. If anybody has seen messages 
like the following, please reply to me or call Bruce at (408) 987 7885.


dofix: Relocatable symbol value (send.o = 670808, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (send.o = 670808, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (send.o = 670808, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (send.o = 670808, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (_MS_PrefetchMessages = 203312, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (_MS_PrefetchMessages = 203312, type 4)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (_AMSN__CUI_RewriteHeaderLine = 3028, type 4)

...

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (/usr/lib/libreslov.a.L309 = 823118, type 6)

dofix: Relocatable symbol value (/usr/lib/libreslov.a.L309 = 823118, type 6)

...


It looks like dofix is getting garbage reloaction entries somehow. 
Unfortunately, I do not have access to an appropriate SPARC platform to do any 
debugging.


Thank you,

Zalman Stern | Internet: zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu | Usenet: I'm soooo confused...

Information Technology Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890

*** Friends don't let friends program in C++ ***

\enddata{text,18489780}

\enddata{text822, 181995}
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Date: Wed, 30 May 90 11:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: AMS & 14 character file names
References: <kaN1EXIB0OV8I1Z18C@radcliff.parc.xerox.com>

---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------

From: Dale MacDonald EIL <macdonal@parc.xerox.com>
Subject:  14 character file names

Is there a way to convince AMS to use 14 character file names?  If not
is there a way to get AMS to not use one's home file system?

Thanks,
Dale.


\enddata{text822, 184418}
\begindata{text822, 186119}
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Date: Wed, 30 May 90 15:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: AMS & 14 character file names
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	<caN1NwgB0KGW0ngRMw@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

\begindata{text,19725100}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
The AndrewSetup option ``AMS_UseShortFileNames: yes'' should convince AMS to 
limit the length of its generated file name components to 14 characters.


Unfortunately, there's no way at present to convince it not to invent file 
names in /tmp, or maybe even /usr/tmp.


		Craig

\enddata{text,19725100}

\enddata{text822, 186119}
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To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: chart
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 12:30:35 +1000
From: ruben@otc.otca.oz.au

 When using chart I have found that I can not place a title on the chart
 neither can I label the axis themselves. The help on chart says  that in the 
 Palette there is an option called "titles". The question is: What and where is 
 Palette, it isn't the menu, is it?

			    Ruben Gonzalez
			    |||| OTC ||

			ACSnet:  ruben@otc.otca.oz
			  UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz!ruben
			 Snail:  GPO Box 7000, Sydney 2001, Australia

\enddata{text822, 187832}
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Date: Thu, 31 May 1990 1:51:05 PDT
From: Shripati Acharya <acharya@Neon.Stanford.EDU>
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: White Pages Installation 
Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.644143865.acharya@Neon.Stanford.EDU>

I get the following error when I run 'wpbuild' for installaing the white
pages:


Zero-length hist/passwd.outchgZ1483 file
Makeboth run FAILED at xx..xx..xx with status 101

This occurs immediately after wpbuild runs 'makeboth' as:

(/localdsk/install/etc/makeboth -d -W -M3 -P8 -c wp.cfg -s wp -F   -N
/afs/.ir.stanford.edu/service/wp hist/passwd.chgZ1483 hist/passwd.outchgZ1483
hist/oldpass hist/newpasswdZ1483 >> wpoutZ1483 ) >>& wperrZ1483

I am trying to install WP on a VAXstation 2000 running ULTRIX.

Shripati
--------
AIR
Stanford University

e-mail:acharya@neon.stanford.edu
\enddata{text822, 189496}
\begindata{text822, 191098}
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Message-ID: <caNGI4m00VsPM1pmpZ@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 May 1990 10:07:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hansen <wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
    cameron@cs.flinders.oz.au (Cameron Humphries)
Subject: Re: Trouble building the Andrew distribution
In-Reply-To: <9005300240.AA03715@kurango.cs.flinders.oz.au>
References: <9005300240.AA03715@kurango.cs.flinders.oz.au>

\begindata{text,270549500}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 30-May-90 Trouble 
building the Andrew.. Cameron Humphries@cs.fli (754)}


\quotation{Everything appears to go fine until:

}\quotation{making (/ada/andrew/atk/basics/common)

}\quotation{/ada/andrew_inst/bin/makedo  -d /ada/andrew_inst/lib -b 
/ada/andrew_inst/bin -o

}\quotation{app.do app.o

}\quotation{Segmentation fault (core dumped)

}
\quotation{The segmentation fault comes from "ld".

}

One common cause of core dumps on Sun4's is a bug in the shell.


The usual way to try to get around it is to simplify the Makefile as much as 
possible.  Other people have reported success by creating an environment with 
as few variables defined as possible; maybe as little as HOME, TERM, USER, 
PATH.


Allegedly Sun knows of the problem, but I have no evidence that suggests they 
have fixed it.


Good luck, 

Fred Hansen\
\enddata{text,270549500}

\enddata{text822, 191098}
\begindata{text822, 193345}
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X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 1447;andrew.cmu.edu;Gary Keim
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Date: Thu, 31 May 1990 13:02:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Keim <gk5g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: chart
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References: <9005310335.6531@munnari.oz.au>

\begindata{text,269859952}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from misc: 31-May-90 chart ruben@otc.otca.oz.au 
(436)}


\quotation{The help on chart says  that in the 

}\quotation{ Palette there is an option called "titles". The question is: What 
and where is 

}\quotation{ Palette, it isn't the menu, is it?

}
Well, you are indeed correct that the pallette is gone.  Where did it go?  I 
don't know but I'll look into it and let you know.


Gary Keim

ATK Group

\enddata{text,269859952}

\enddata{text822, 193345}
\begindata{text822, 195043}
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Date: Thu, 31 May 90 12:58:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
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To: Shripati Acharya <acharya@Neon.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Pages Installation
CC: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.88.644143865.acharya@Neon.Stanford.EDU>
References: <CMM.0.88.644143865.acharya@Neon.Stanford.EDU>

\begindata{text,18910960}
\textdsversion{12}
\template{messages}
I believe that the hist/passwd.outchgZnnn file should always have non-zero 
length.  The problem with ``wpbuild'' is that it's a shell script, and as such 
has trouble detecting AFS outages or bad side-effects of being over quota.


The supplied hist/passwd.chg file has, I believe, a single comment, and the 
makeboth program will insist on writing at least one comment to the output 
file, as it copies hist/passwd.chg to hist/passwd.outchgZnnn (editing it in 
the process).


I'd suggest that you ran out of disk space or quota or something when you were 
doing a WP build/rebuild operation, and that the ``zero-length 
hist/passwd.outchgZnnn'' complaint was the only good way that ``wpbuild'' 
could tell you so.  If this was the problem, then once you have some more 
working room, you should be able to restart your wpbuild run.


		Craig

\enddata{text,18910960}

\enddata{text822, 195043}
\begindata{text822, 197281}
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Date: 31 May 90 21:08:27 GMT
From: auspex!guy@uunet.uu.net  (Guy Harris)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
Subject: Re: ringing the bell in Andrew (was Re: Rerouting...)
Message-Id: <3416@auspex.auspex.com>
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Sender: info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu
To: info-andrew@andrew.cmu.edu

>The real problem here is getting the beep through to the X server. 
>There isn't currently a way do that directly from console,

There probably *should* be some interaction manager function, or something
like that, to ring the window system's notion of the bell; if the
problem is that WM doesn't support that notion, you can stub it out or
something like that.... 
\enddata{text822, 197281}
\begindata{text822, 199011}
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Message-ID: <waNNHBG00asBI2h840@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 18:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Zalman Stern <zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: view_FullUpdate(view, view_Remove, ...)
In-Reply-To: <9005282347.AA11862@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
References: <9005282347.AA11862@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

[Bill Janssen proposes that view_LinkTree with a NULL argument should do a
view_FullUpdate with type view_Remove.]

FullUpdate should only be called by im, another FullUpdate routine, or an
Update routine (after the visual area has been cleared). This is necessary
since FullUpdate requires that there be a valid graphical context
available. Synchronizing update routines to the interaction loop guarantees
that the graphic and window system state will be valid.

Therefore, a better solution to Bill's problem would be to fix frame to
generate a view_Remove FullUpdate on the old view when the view is being
switched. It is perhaps plausible that this could be piggy backed on the
LinkTree/UnlinkTree protocol, but I'm not sure that it would work in all
cases.

The main problem here is that the view_Remove protocol (as well as the
view_LinkTree, view_InitChildren, etc...) protocols were added after the
fact to solve specific problems. All in all niether of them are
particularly well integrated or supported (i.e. not all views do
view_Remove properly).

Sincerely,
Zalman Stern | Internet: zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu | Usenet: I'm soooo confused...
Information Technology Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
*** Friends don't let friends program in C++ ***
\enddata{text822, 199011}
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Date: Thu, 31 May 90 16:19:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Janssen <janssen@parc.xerox.com>
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To: Info-Andrew <info-andrew+@andrew.cmu.edu>,
        Zalman Stern <zs01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: view_FullUpdate(view, view_Remove, ...)
In-Reply-To: <waNNHBG00asBI2h840@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <9005282347.AA11862@holmes.parc.xerox.com>,
	<waNNHBG00asBI2h840@andrew.cmu.edu>

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\excerptedcaption{Excerpts from ext.andrew: 31-May-90 Re: 
view_FullUpdate(view, v.. Zalman Stern@andrew.cmu. (1273)}


\quotation{FullUpdate should only be called by im, another FullUpdate routine, 
or an

}\quotation{Update routine (after the visual area has been cleared). This is 
necessary

}\quotation{since FullUpdate requires that there be a valid graphical context

}\quotation{available. Synchronizing update routines to the interaction loop 
guarantees

}\quotation{that the graphic and window system state will be valid.

}
As you note, FullUpdate with view_Remove is really for a different purpose 
than FullUpdate.  Perhaps a valid graphical context is only guaranteed if the 
type of FullUpdate is view_FullRedraw?


\quotation{Therefore, a better solution to Bill's problem would be to fix 
frame to

}\quotation{generate a view_Remove FullUpdate on the old view when the view is 
being

}\quotation{switched. It is perhaps plausible that this could be piggy backed 
on the

}\quotation{LinkTree/UnlinkTree protocol, but I'm not sure that it would work 
in all

}\quotation{cases.

}
Sounds good to me.  The protocol problem isn't fixed by this, but it would 
solve my problem.


Bill

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