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From: petrich@netcom.com (Loren Petrich)
Subject: More Linguistic Looniness (Re: Zuni, Penutian, Baltic)
Message-ID: <petrichE4B302.16F@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom
References: <19970105043700.XAA11169@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19970119233400.SAA20452@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:07:14 GMT
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Sender: petrich@netcom7.netcom.com
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu sci.archaeology:60297 sci.lang:68570


	The trouble with this sort of linguistic looniness is that it 
gives those who are serious, like the Nostraticists, a bad name.

In article <19970119233400.SAA20452@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
 <akaulins@aol.com> wrote:

	[typological features, like inflection]

>Many years ago, I independently came to the conclusion that Zuni was
>related to proto-Indo-European by comparing it with the Baltic languages.
>My interest in the American Indian language derived from my observation
>that the Indian word MISSISSIPPI, thought to mean "big muddy" was very
>similar to Latvian MILZIS-UPE meaning "giant river, big river" and that
>the American Indian word Appalachian was very similar to Latvian APALASHIE
>"the round ones", i.e. the round mountains. The root -UPE ("river" in
>Latvian) we also find perhaps in WINNIPEG "filthy water" i.e WINNI-PEG
>where I would submit that Latvian VILNI "waves, wavy" is the root of WINNI
>in the sense of "rough water" since the Winnipeg river has numerous falls
>and rapids, making it unsuitable for navigation. Filthy is just not
>applicable.

	If one stretches one's semantic net wide enough, one can match 
just about *anything*.

>The Zuni differentiate words solely on the basis of long and short vowels,
>a phenomenon found also in Latvian and also IMO in Pharaonic Egyptian and
>ancient Hebrew (that is why they had no "vowels" as such, but rather aleph
>etc. - more on this later).

	Elementary boner. Egyptian and Hebrew have vowels, but they are 
treated as an afterthought or even omitted in writing.

>Word comparables in Zuni and Latvian which caught my attention were

>Zuni                Latvain                      Meaning

>mu-smuka       smaka, nuo-smaka    smell, he smelledl it
>asiwe              sauja                        hand(s)
>kop                 ka, kapec                 how, why

	Latvian one < IE *kwo-, *kwi-, which leads to all the English
wh-words (who, what, etc.) the Latin qu- words (quis, qui, etc.), etc. 

>pu//a               pu-                           blow
>kawe               kvie-shi                     wheat

	I wonder if the Zuni one is a borrowing; wheat is not native to 
the New World. Also, the Latvian one is probably cognate with English 
"wheat". 

>lhana               liela                         large, bit
>
>These alone are not very meaningful, but I then compared the COUNTING
>systems of the Zuni's and the Baltic languages. Here we have clear
>parallels:

>Zuni                Latvian, Lith.             Meaning

>To-pinte          pant-                        One, unit (Akkadian Pan-)
>Kwilli              Divi, Dvyli                 Two, Double
	IE *dwo:
>Ha'i                Vid- (?)                     3, Zuni, "equally
>dividing" finger, MID-
	IE *treyes
>Awite             Cetri                         4
	IE *kwetwores
>Opte              Piece                       5, Zuni, THE NOTCHED OFF
>(Here we see that a "notch" was made after 5 - which can in Latvian be the
>word met- or LIK-TA "down placed").
	IE *penkwe
>To-pa-LIK'YA                                   1+5
>Kwilli-LIK'YA                                    2+5
>Hai-LIK'YA                                       3+5
>Tena-LIK'YA   Te Ne-lika                    9, Zuni "all but all", Latvian
>"not notched off"

	The Latvian ones are conveniently omitted.

>A-stem'thila    Desmit-dala              10, Zuni "the fingers, all the
>fingers
>(where I would suggest that A-stem'thila and Latvian Desmit-dala,
>Lithuanian deshimtadalis "10th - part", come from *at-zi-me-ta-da-la
>meaning "the marked part, i.e. a new "mark"?" - an interpretation
>supported by the Zuni word for 100)

	Latvian desmit, Lithuanian deshimt < IE *dekm

>assiastem'th-LAK'YA                      100

>which would correspond to Latvian *atzimeta(lika) "marked notch", i.e. a
>notch for 5, a mark for 10 and a marked notch for 100.

	Wave, wave, wave your hands, mister.

>In any case, I am certain more correspondences will be found with Zuni
>using the Baltic languages as a source - and not the hypothetical IE roots
>- which IMHO are in part greatly flawed.

	For what reason? After reading a lot of the literature on 
Indo-European, the concept is *very* sound.
-- 
Loren Petrich				Happiness is a fast Macintosh
petrich@netcom.com			And a fast train
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