Newsgroups: uk.politics,alt.politics.ec,sci.lang,talk.politics.european-union
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!elna
From: elna@netcom.com (Esperanto League N America)
Subject: Re: Single European Language
Message-ID: <elnaDACGBF.MrG@netcom.com>
Organization: Esperanto League for North America, Inc.
References: <690061730wnr@afin.demon.co.uk> <803252671snz@ducks.demon.co.uk> <3rqj09$ota@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <3rqm4p$63b@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 01:04:27 GMT
Lines: 73
Sender: elna@netcom19.netcom.com

livesey@solntze.engr.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes in a recent posting (reference <3rqm4p$63b@fido.asd.sgi.com>):
>In article <3rqj09$ota@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, etg10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans) writes:
>|> A large number of politicians claim diplomatically that they support
>|> Esperanto in principle. A few are actually willing to do something.
>|> A bit like every other worthwhile political issue, really.
>
>And a bit like some pretty worthless ones, too.   You know, when I
>read about Esperanto, I never know if the idea is for Esperanto to 
>help Europe, or for Europe to finally give Esperanto a raison d'etre
>that it's never generated for itself.
>
Ah, welcome back, Jon! I thought things had become a bit too reasonable 
around here of late....  Esperanto does not need the EU's approval for its
continued success. It *has* generated its own raison d'etre, which is obvious
at every meeting, conversation, letter-exchange, etc which utilizes the
international language. Just as with any language, communication is the goal,
and it happens all the time. Jon Livesy's refusal to acknowledge this fact 
does not diminish the real communication which is ongoing in Esperanto. Of
course, there are many individuals who also recognise that Europe is the 
scene of an ongoing communication problem, and who suggest that the efficiency
and neutrality of Esperanto put that language into a potentially useful 
position as a solution to many of the real problems which are ongoing and
often costly. Jon Livesy's refusal to recognise the linguistic barriers 
between Europeans (to say nothing of those between Asians, or between Asians
and Europeans, or... ) does nothing to negate those barriers. A widely-used
lingua franca could solve more problems than denial can solve. People who
learn and use Esperanto can already *now* travel to most parts of the world
and meet people with who they have a common language in which to discuss
politics, religion, aesthetics, sports, etc. while those tourists who travel
with English as the only language will find plenty of conversations about
dollars, but little else. Isn't it nice to travel to Ireland, where you can
sit in the pubs and yack with the locals in a shared language? Can you do that
in Japan? Brazil? Lithuania? Any Esperanto-speaker can. Don't get me wrong-- I
am not claiming that one could go to a random pub and find a trove of fellow
Esperanto-speakers; but you could easily arrange to meet a good number. And
the more widely Esperanto is taught, the more useful it becomes-- this is why
Esperantists proselytize.
Esperanto already works.


>Perhaps you can help me out here?    Why is it that discussions
>about Esperanto start out by making claims about how helpful Esperanto
>is, but quickly turn to how Europe can put its political power behind
>Esperanto?
>
Any educator will attempt to encourage a good technique. Those of us who
have experienced Esperanto in action (as opposed to the armchair naysayers
with their a priori "proofs") are likely to recommend it to the organizations
which coordinate education systems.  Is this strange?

>
>Right.   You just have to tell a bunch of people that they have to 
>learn Esperanto to keep their teaching jobs.   It's simple.
>
This is exactly what is happening in East Europe-- many teachers of Russian
are being re-trained to teach English. In a few years, they may realize that
the neighborhood giant is Germany, and the process of retraining will start
again....     
Is neutrality such a difficult pill to swallow??

>
>Is Esperanto the next Marxism?    A topic that people study and
>use and write learned theses about as long as the state tells them
>to, but which they drop as soon as state "encouragement" disappears?
>
Wow, Jon! I thought I had seen the worst of your propoganda techniques.
This is a classic....  Until recently, bankrupt interlocuters would show
their hand by playing the "Nazi card" but I guess bogeymen change masks.

Miko.



