Newsgroups: sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uknet!festival!edcogsci!iad
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Subject: Re: Danish Numbers (was: Linguistics for Kids)
Message-ID: <D61LKG.KxM@cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK
References: <241561598.33328314@inform-bbs.dk> <D5ItLv.Gu@midway.uchicago.edu> <3k9mt8$gkb@panix2.panix.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 10:09:49 GMT
Lines: 39

In article <3k9mt8$gkb@panix2.panix.com> rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) writes:
>In article <D5ItLv.Gu@midway.uchicago.edu>, Robert Knippen <rmk4@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
[re Danish]
>>When somebody explains how half-third (or fourth or fifth) can come
>>to mean 2.5 (or 3.5 or 4.5, respectively), then I'll believe there
>>is some logic to the system. 
>
>It seems to be the straightforward analog of the way to tell time.

It is.  (Though of course number names were constructed in this way
long before clocks and watches made an appearance, so it's really
the time-telling system that is a straightforward analogue of
the all-purpose number-naming one.)

>(In Swedish since I don't know Danish; similarly in German)
>"Halv tre" = 2:30, i.e. "half (of the relevant unit) taken off
>three", so it is not half of the whole thing but (N - 1) + 1/2. 

One could think of it as `1/2 [unit] towards N'.

>This system may well have been universal at one time in Germanic languages.

And in many others, too.  It's known as overcounting.

It was one of the pillars of Maya counting (I say `was', because
the Maya of the present day seem to be doing most of their counting
in Spanish -- a great pity, if you ask me):

  _hun-tu-ox-kal_ `41' (`1 of/into the 3rd 20'), _ox-kal_ `60'
   1      3  20

  _hun-tu-ox-bak_ `820' (`1 [score] of/into the 3rd 400'), _ox-bak_ `1200'
   1      3  400

-- 
`"Na, na ... ah mean, *no wey*, wi aw due respect, ma lady," stammers Joe.'
Ivan A Derzhanski (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk)    (J Stuart, _Auld Testament Tales_)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,   Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House E113, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Pk Rd, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
