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From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Subject: Re: Russian words in English
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References: <ag.2.00098E4E@interaccess.com> <Cy8s7M.3vv@spss.com> <38rmoi$k4j@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1994Nov2.155336.13627@guvax>
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 18:18:35 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <1994Nov2.155336.13627@guvax>,
>I disagree that these are words BORROWED into English because we don't 
>use them as full-fledged words; we only use them to refer to the 
>Russian items. Especially Duma, politburo, pravda, sputnik, troika. 
>For example, we don't refer to any non-Russian political body as Duma, 
>so this can't be truly called a borrowing.

This seems a rather quirky definition of a word.  Why is something not a
"full-fledged word" if it's used to describe things in a Russian context?
Is "toga" not an English word because it describes a Roman item?
Is "croissant" not an English word because it describes a French item?
Does it become one if an English-speaking mouth eats one?

I provided the longest of the lists that people are currently flaming;
and my rule for inclusion was simple enough: if it's likely to be understood
by many monolingual English speakers, if it's found in English dictionaries,
if it's used in the media without glosses or italicization, then it's
an English word.  

If you want to posit some other naturalization procedure for words,
please describe it.  How long does it take?  What legislative bodies 
must rule?  Can foreign words be used in the public schools?[1]

[1] note for non-US readers: this is a reference to a proposal on the 
ballot in California, to deny public education to illegal immigrants:
people want them to cut their lawns, watch their children, and work in 
their factories, but God forbid that their children should learn to read.

>Others of these words I have NEVER heard used in English, and I'd like 
>to know on what grounds they were included here. (like bogomil, 
>mendelevium, kurgan, soyuz) Perhaps there is more 
>borrowing into British English than American...

So if you haven't heard of a word, it's not English, and people using it
*owe you an explanation*!!  Right.  Bogomil refers to a member of a 
Byzantine religious sect, and can be found in history books.  Mendelevium
is an element; you might have been asleep the day they passed around the
periodic chart.  Kurgans are the burial mounds of a particular culture,
and the name is now used for the culture itself, which some folks identify
with the original Indo-Europeans.  Soyuz is, like sputnik, the name of a
Soviet space capsule-- oops, that one is a "Russian item", something 
we're not allowed to talk about in English.
