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From: mcv@inter.NL.net (Miguel Carrasquer)
Subject: Re: Chinese romanization systems (was H and digraphs thereof)
Message-ID: <CyIDMA.Gow@inter.NL.net>
Organization: NLnet
References: <37uqhc$f2n@gordon.enea.se> <783424154snz@cary.demon.co.uk> <CyG5K9.ICx@inter.NL.net> <CyHoL7.C67@cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 23:08:34 GMT
Lines: 146

In article <CyHoL7.C67@cogsci.ed.ac.uk>,
Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <CyG5K9.ICx@inter.NL.net> mcv@inter.NL.net (Miguel Carrasquer) writes:
>>[...] the Spanish rules for stress-accent spelling,
>>which would have been simple if not for the desire to minimize
>>the use of the accent:
>>
>>/uu	: always marked
>>u/u	: unmarked
>>	  EXCEPT when the word ends in a consonant
>>		EXCEPT when the consonant is -n or -s
>>			EXCEPT when -n or -s are in a cluster
>>				EXCEPT when the cluster is -ns
>>
>>uu/	: marked
>>	  EXCEPT when the word ends in a consonant
>>		EXCEPT etc.
>
>Are you sure that you're not making things sound more complicated than
>they are?  Let me give it a go, and see how many embedded _except_s it
>will take me:
>
>/uu:   marked
>u/u:   unmarked
>       except if there's a consonant other than _n_ or _s_
>            between the last vowel and the end of the word
>uu/:   marked
>       except if there's a consonant other than _n_ or _s_
>            between the last vowel and the end of the word
>

Yes, that seems correct.  Your analysis is much simpler than the
one in the elemenatry grammar book I took my examples from.

>>(The rules are different for words that include the clusters
>>-ia-, -io-, -ua- etc.,
>
>That simply means that one more clause needs to be added: `If the
>stress falls on a high vowel adjacent to a low one, it is marked.'
>Or something of that sort.
>
>Looks simple enough to me.  Too bad that the rules for Portuguese
>differ in several points.

The rules for Catalan are similar to Portuguese (at least in the
case of high/low vowel clusters).  There is also the need to
distinguish open and close varieties of e and o.
In Catalan, a grave accent is used over a, open e, open o,
an acute over close e, close o, i and u.  The rules are
(again taken from an elemantary grammar book):

An accent is written on:
a) polysyllabic words with the accent on the last syllable,
if they end on -a, -e, -i, -o, -u, -as, -es, -is, -os, -us,
-en and -in (where -i and -u are not part of a dihpthong).
[repla`, cami', reco', dormi's, ence'n; but: fanal, algun,
gripau]
b) words with the accent on the penultimate syllable, not
ending in one of the 12 endings above. [epi'leg, dia`fan, 
exa`mens, diri'eu; but: mestre, galimatias, ciris, pensen].
c) all words with ante-penultimate stress. [me`tode, o`liba,
conti'nua, esgle'sia].  Note that Catalan syllabises (?)
differently from Castilian: es-gle'-si-a.
d) Special cases to distinguish homophones.

>
>>and for some special cases
>>where the accent is used to distinguish homophones).
>
>Only a few monosyllabic words, I think.
>

I was going to write "monosyllabic", but I left it out
because it's not quite true.  The complete list is:

solo "alone"		so'lo "only"
aun "yet, even, but"	au'n "still, yet"
el "the"		e'l "he"
mi "my; mi (mus.)"	mi' "me"
tu "your"		tu' "you"
se "-self"		se' "I know"
de "of, from"		de' "that I/he give(s)"
mas "but"		ma's "more"
si "if; si (mus.)"	si' "yes; -self (after prep.)"
te "you (acc.)"		te' "tea"
porque "because"	porque' "why?"
que "that"		que' "what?"
cual "as, which"	cua'l "which?"
quien "who"		quie'n "who?"
cuyo "whose"		cu'yo "whose?"  
donde "where"		do'nde "where?"
cuanto "how much"	cua'nto "how much?"
cuando "when"		cua'ndo "when?"
como "as, how"		co'mo "how?"
este "this"		e'ste "this one"
ese "this, that"	e'se "this, that one"
aquel "that"		aque'l "that one"

A moderate list compared to Catalan:

be "lamb"		be' "good, well"
bota "boot"		bo'ta "barrel; vessel"
coc "cook"		co'c "Catalan pizza"
com "how"		co'm "bowl"
cop "hit, strike"	co'p "(snow)flake; cup (measure)"
cos "body"		co's "race"
deu "10"		de'u "god"
dona "gives"		do'na "woman, wife"
es "-self"		e's "is"
feu "feud(al)"		fe'u "he did"
fora "outside"		fo'ra "that I/he was"
joc "play"		jo'c "resting place"
ma "my (fem.)"		ma` "hand"
mes "my (fem. pl.)" 	me's "more"
meu "my"		me`u "meow"
molt "very"		mo`lt "ground (ptc.)"
mon "my (masc.)"	mo'n "world"
mora "Arab/Berber(fem)"	mo'ra "kind of berry"
net "clean, neat"	ne't "grandson"
nos "us"		no's "we"
os "bone"		o's "bear"
pel "by the"		pe`l "hair"
que "that"		que` "what?; that (after prep.)"
res "nothing"		re's "prayer"
rossa "blonde (fem.)"	ro`ssa "(work)horse"
se "-self"		se' "I know"
sec "dry"		se'c "fold"
seu "his/her own; diocese; sits"	se`u "fat"
si "if"			si' "yes"
so "sound"		so' "I am"
soc "wooden shoe"	so'c "I am"
sol "sun"		so`l "floor"
son "sleep, dream"	so'n "they are"
te "you (acc); tea"	te' "he has"
tot "all"		to`t "mouthpiece"
us "you (pl.acc.)"	u's "use"
vens "you sell"		ve'ns "you come"
ves "look!"		ve's "go!"
veu "voice; he sees"	ve'u "he saw"	
vos "you (acc.)"	vo's "you (nom.)"


-- 
Miguel Carrasquer         ____________________  ~~~
Amsterdam                [                  ||]~  
mcv@inter.NL.net         ce .sig n'est pas une .cig 
