Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!rutgers!att-out!nntpa!nntpa.cb.att.com!lgm
From: lgm@polaris.ih.att.com (Lawrence G. Mayka)
Subject: Re: Prefix vs. Infix?
In-Reply-To: berglas@cs.uq.oz.au's message of 31 Oct 1994 23:46:20 GMT
Message-ID: <LGM.94Nov20181256@polaris.ih.att.com>
Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: polaris.ih.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, Illinois, USA
References: <37jo4v$7lm@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> <CyI3Bq.75F@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
	<393vkc$8op@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 00:12:55 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <393vkc$8op@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> berglas@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Berglas) writes:

   The real point, however, is that non Lisp programmers unbiased by
   experience or careful analysis *KNOW* that parenthesis are
   unacceptable, and IMHO this is a major reason that Lisp died.  Syntax
   is always more important than semantics.

I'll ignore the erroneous death report and simply point out that,
according to my observations of fairly large numbers of C/C++
programmers who were assigned to learn CLOS, the majority did not find
parentheses an obstacle (with appropriate tool support)--perhaps the
opposite.  After all, a main virtue of Lisp-style prefix syntax is
consistency, which closely correlates with true learnability.  Those
who did not learn CLOS well were those who believed they didn't really
need to, and those who had already expended considerable effort in
another direction.  For example, C programmers seemed to pick up CLOS
much more readily than C++ programmers.

What you are probably referring to is "curb appeal" (also blushingly
referred to as "sex appeal")--i.e., initial superficial
attractiveness.  I regret to agree that this is something Lisp-style
syntax apparently lacks in many people's eyes.  The effect is that,
with the exception of those individuals blessed with particular
initiative, curiosity, desire for self-improvement, or consciousness
of duty, most people who do not feel they =need= to learn CLOS simply
=don't=; and they can often convince their management that the need is
not really present.  The impact of "curb appeal," or lack of it, is a
sad pattern in the software industry, as elsewhere.
--
        Lawrence G. Mayka
        AT&T Bell Laboratories
        lgm@ieain.att.com

Standard disclaimer.
