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From: David Yeo <dyeo@tortoise>
Subject: Re: Heisenberg: was he blind? 
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:43:06 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu sci.psychology.theory:6226 comp.ai.philosophy:52098 comp.ai:44252

On 13 Feb 1997, Neil Rickert wrote:

> In <Pine.SOL.3.91.970213083931.8264D-100000@tortoise> David Yeo <dyeo@tortoise> writes:
> >On 12 Feb 1997, Neil Rickert wrote:
> 
> >> Like many philosophers before him and many later, Schlick was
> >> mistaken.  As Oliver posted recently
> 
> >> 	Loud and clear from the floor and the podium came the message
> >> 	that science is a method for exploring uncertainty; it
> >> 	delivers better models and not revealed truth;
> 
> >How is "better" to be defined if not with respect to the pursuit of truth? 
> 
> If you first define "truth", I will try to define "better".  But we
> gain nothing by defining "better" in terms of "truth" if truth itself
> is undefined and undefinable.  In any case "better" is relative to
> one's purposes.

I doubt MY definition of truth would carry much weight.  However, I do
suggest that truth is not a binary state (as many appear to believe). 
Rather, I adhere to the pragmatic view of truth as a goal not as an
absolute. To quote Peirce (1871): 

  There is, then, to every question a true answer, a final conclusion, to 
  which the opinion of every man is constantly gravitating.  He may for a
  time recede from it, but give him more experience and time for
  consideration, and he will finally approach it.  The individual may not
  live to reach the truth; there is a residuum of error in every
  individual's opinions. 

  ("Charles S. Peirce: Selected Writings", Dover Publ., pp. 81-82)

> 
> >> Your examples refute your claim.  "Water is H2O" is not a statement
> >> about the world.  It is a statement about the relationship of the
> >> world to the terms of our scientific theories.  Unavoidably, data is
> >> theory laden.
> 
> >This objection seems rather pedantic. 
> 
> No, it is central to the question.
> 
> >How can "a statement about the relationship of the world to [anything]"
> >not be a statement about the world?  
> 
> If a theory is chosen on the basis of "truth" rather than "better",
> then the statements about the world ought to have the property of
> "truth" without any reference to the scientific theory.  But if this

Why?

> depends on an undefinable notion of "truth", then we are just
> counting angels dancing on heads of pins.  Worse still, we cannot
> even make the statement without first having a theory.

True ;-)

> 
> If, however, the standard for scientific theories is pragmatic
> ("better"), and truth is relative to the theory, then we can make
> sense of both science and "truth".

As noted above (see Peirce quote) the pragmatic "better" cannot be
separated from the notion of the pursuit of truth.  That it is relative to
the theory (which I also maintain BTW) is irrelevant unless one adheres to
an absolute (i.e. binary) model of truth (I think we agree on this point). 
But where we seem to disagree is on the possibility of defining "better
models" independent of the goal of truth (as per the Oliver quote).  I 
say you cannot and, if I understand you correctly, you say that you can.

Cheers,

- David Yeo (Applied Cognitive Science, University of Toronto)
