Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!fdn.fr!uunet!in1.uu.net!DIALix!sydney.DIALix.oz.au!quasar!telford
From: telford@threetek.dialix.oz.au (Telford Tendys)
Subject: Re: Lucas & Penrose's use of Godel
In-Reply-To: schechtr@flagstaff.princeton.edu's message of 7 Jul 1995 17:45:06 GMT
Message-ID: <1995Jul14.024601.3823@threetek.dialix.oz.au>
Organization: 3Tek Systems Pty Ltd., N.S.W., Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:46:01 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai.philosophy:30118 sci.logic:12345

> From: schechtr@flagstaff.princeton.edu (Joshua B. Schechter)
> In article <3tjha2$id2@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk> "chris.holt" <chris.holt@ncl.ac.uk> writes:
> >weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) wrote:
> >
> >>Indeed.  Can someone even *identify* a Goedelian limitation in humans?
> >
> >Just because we can't identify it doesn't mean it isn't there
> >(I'm not saying it is).
> 
> The Godelian limitation of the mathematician (or group
> of mathematicians) is another matter. The mathematician's "system"
> (define it as you please) either has a hole, or it is inconsistent.
> And, to be perfectly blunt, I have the feeling the latter is probably
> true for human beings. (Oh well.) 

Well if you look at the religious issues that the human race has been
trying to deal with for THOUSANDS of years -- and STILL failed to
produce proof or counterproof -- you MUST have something close to
a ``Godelian hole''. Questions such as the purpose of existence just cannot
be answered by logical deduction. If you do attempt to use logic,
then you will require axioms somewhere and it gets down to
BELIEVING those axioms (or NOT as the case may be).

Thus we have fundamental statements about the nature of our
existance that cannot be proved by any of us.
Possibly a meta-being may have a provable solution for our
condition by would be guaranteed to be unable to encode such a proof
in any manner that we might be able to understand.

	- Tel
