Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news4.ner.bbnplanet.net!news3.near.net!paperboy.wellfleet.com!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!news.mathworks.com!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!pindor
From: pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor)
Subject: Re: Lucas & Penrose's use of Godel
Message-ID: <DBo9C0.B0B@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCC Public Access
References: <DBD1Kp.21A@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <3u0ftu$44@netnews.upenn.edu> <DBM7xq.H5o@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <3u36qt$lak@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 20:38:24 GMT
Lines: 43
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai.philosophy:30092 sci.logic:12324

In article <3u36qt$lak@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Matthew P Wiener <weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu> wrote:
>In article <DBM7xq.H5o@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>, pindor@gpu (Andrzej Pindor) writes:
>>In article <3u0ftu$44@netnews.upenn.edu>,
>>Matthew P Wiener <weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>>In article <DBKGHJ.G5n@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>, pindor@gpu (Andrzej Pindor) writes:
>>>>You are right, this is the question of interest. Now, are you
>>>>claiming that chemical processes (and immunological infulences)
>>>>cannot be modelled digitally? Perhaps Goedel proved this?
>
>>>They can be modelled up to a point.  [...]
>
>>What reasons (except ideology) do you have to think that modelling
>>"up to this point" is not enough?
>
>The Lucas/Penrose argument.  What do you think?
>
I think that you are begging the question then.

>>				   If you are going to fall onto
>>non-computability at QM level, why not to say this outright instead
>>of setting up a smoke screen of "chemical processes (and
>>immunological influences)"?
>
>It's not a smokescreen.  We already know experimentally that the simple
>digital neuron model of mind is false.

Are we discussing correctness of a particular model of the mind (simple 
digital neuron or like) or a impossibility to model mind digitally in 
principle? Talk of chemical processes and like is a smokescreen if in reality
you are after the principle irrelevent of the model.

>-- 

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

Andrzej

-- 
Andrzej Pindor                        The foolish reject what they see and 
University of Toronto                 not what they think; the wise reject
Instructional and Research Computing  what they think and not what they see.
pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca                           Huang Po
