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From: pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor)
Subject: Re: Is the mind/brain deterministic?
Message-ID: <CzH9G7.Awy@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCC Public Access
References: <kovskyCz0B4G.Aqr@netcom.com> <kovskyCzBLv2.IsI@netcom.com> <CzDLJu.Hoq@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <kovskyCzF8D4.Bxv@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 19:14:31 GMT
Lines: 43

In article <kovskyCzF8D4.Bxv@netcom.com>, Bob Kovsky <kovsky@netcom.com> wrote:
>In a previous post, I wrote the item in double-nested quotes and 
>Andrzej Pindor <pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> responded:
>
>>>	Given enough computer power and time, and his own determination, 
>>>Prof. Moravec may well succeed in building a mobile robot control program 
>>>that can perform in a relatively clean indoor environment.  I am more 
>>>skeptical about its ability to navigate on the street where speedy response 
>>>to happenstance events is needed.  And I see little likelihood that a robot 
>>>will ever be able to navigate in a forested wilderness.  It is there that 
>>>a fly functions superbly.  The reasons for its superiority deserve 
>>>consideration.
>>>
>>I hope your skepticism is open to empirical verification. How about
>>Martian and Lunar rovers, which navigated in non-terrestial wilderness?
>
>	My understanding is that humans guided the navigation of these 
>devices, by remote control.  My understanding is that Prof. Moravec's 
>robots are intended to be autonomous and self-navigating.  I will be very 
>interested if my understanding is in error.
>
While this devices were indeed helped by humans, please note that due to
the distance involved there was a delay (in case of Mars well over 5 mins)
between a moment the human navigator saw something and a moment the vehicle
received a suitable command. Consequently, the vehicle had to have a lot 
of autonomy. Besides, my recollection is that although the rovers were
watched virtually all the time, their navigators intervened only very
occasionally.
In any case, be it space rovers or Hans Moravec's autonomous vehicles, their
capabilities seem to indicate that you should look harder since what you see
(little liklihood ....) seems to be false. Perhaps you should consider again
your notion that known laws of physics are valid only in laboratory settings,
and in "real" world there operate some other laws.

Andrzej
>
>*   *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    * 
>    Bob Kovsky          |  A Natural Science of Freedom 
-- 
Andrzej Pindor                        The foolish reject what they see and 
University of Toronto                 not what they think; the wise reject
Instructional and Research Computing  what they think and not what they see.
pindor@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca                           Huang Po
