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Article 7593 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: definition of consciousness
Keywords: consciousness, mind, brain
Message-ID: <1992Nov11.091732.7442@reed.edu>
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:17:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov11.091732.7442
References: <3197@ucl-cs.uucp>
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In article <3197@ucl-cs.uucp> G.Joly@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Gordon Joly) writes:
> Chris Malcolm writes:
>  > In article <tim.720580709@giaeb> tim@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au (Tim Roberts)  
writes:
>  > 
>  > >Consciousness is to the study of the brain what phlogiston is to the  
study of
>  > >combustion.
>  > 
>  > Because consciousness is not a brain phenomenon. It's a property of a
>  > mind-engaged-in-a-world. You'll no more find consciousness in a brain
>  > than in an eyeball, although both have useful contributions to make.
>  > -- 
>  > Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
>  > Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
>  > 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
> 
> So the big C does not exist? And what of Mind: what's that?
> 
> Gordon.
> ____
> 
> Gordon Joly      Phone  +44 71 387 7050 ext 3703      FAX  +44 71 387 1397
> Internet: G.Joly@cs.ucl.ac.uk        UUCP: ...!{uunet,uknet}!ucl-cs!G.Joly
> Computer Science, University College London, Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT

	Consciousness directly implies something to be conscious of. However,  
if we consider the whole brain, the implication is that it may be self aware  
(i.e. the brain is a physical thing, and it may be conscious of it's own  
existence). With a *mind* however, this is less clear. Does a *mind*  
necessarily imply a physical manifestation? I don't think so, so it would not  
equate consiousness. 
	However, were now dancing around several problems of metaphysics in  
that it suggests there may be a something such as a mind which exists, but has  
no manifestation. To say its a property of a "mind-engaged-in-a-world" implies  
that a mind may also not be engaged in a world (else consciousness is intrinsic  
in above argument). 
	While existence without manifestation less a problem for concepts  
(still the one vs. the many paradox [i.e. is there a Platonic heaven], but a  
stronger argument since they are not directly observable [unless we get into  
tropes...]), but these concepts are abstractions from reality, whereas the mind  
without manifestation is not. However, this is not the province of AI, so I'll  
leave the conclusions on the *mind* vs. the *brain* to the reader.

--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Departments of Physics and Philosophy
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR


