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Article 5349 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: smoliar@jit.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A bas les esperances! (Re: Intelligence, awareness, and esthetics)
Message-ID: <1992Apr30.235510.22749@nuscc.nus.sg>
Date: 30 Apr 92 23:55:10 GMT
References: <1992Apr21.212425.9210@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com> <1992Apr22.122656.1303@nuscc.nus.sg> <tob8kINN4cq@agate.berkeley.edu>
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Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
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In article <tob8kINN4cq@agate.berkeley.edu> eliot@ocf.berkeley.edu (Eliot
Handelman) writes:
>In article <1992Apr22.122656.1303@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen
>smoliar) writes:
>
>
>>            We tend to approach our aesthetic experiences with expectations
>>(just like everything else in the world 
>
>We've had this one out before ... many times before ... but I'd like to
>report that I went by the "Whole Life Expo" in San Francisco 
>this past weekend, where I accumulated the literature of the
>so-cfalled "Anstendig Institute" of SF, the closest thing to a "whole
>earth" approach to music theory that I've yet come across (and I tend
>not to search this kind of thing out). En bref, they feel that
>"having expectations" of ANY sort is a very bad thing, is a sloppy
>habit that must be done away with if one is to experience the
>full range of "feeling" (as they say) available in so-called "music"
>(which music is suggested by victorian lithographs of the great ones,
>Tschaikovsky et al, Gleason unmentioned though doubtlessd included in 
>spirit -- They also feel that CD's fail to transmit relevant "vibrations"
>wherewith this "feeling" can be experienced. They recommend listening
>to music in a deeply relaxed state a la the "let it flow" of pscyhedelia
>-- and guess what -- as far as this latter goes, THEY'VE GOT A POINT.
>It's well worthwhile trying out music in this way, just to discover
>the "raw" aesthtetic -- the bodily sensation involved. 
>
You are right, Eliot;  we have been down this road many times before.  This
does not mean I have ignored all you have argued in the past.  However, the
present discussion emerged out of an attempt to try to discern what Abraham
Moles was trying to get at and then point out where the holes were.  Still,
I tend to feel, along with Schank, that if you write off ALL expectations,
you probably also write off a good chunk of cognition.

Look, these guys probably DO have a point when you are dealing with your
"psychedelia."  They probably also have a point for all your Windham Hill
discs, and I would even grant that they have a point for 4' 33".  On the
other hand, do they have a point for "They Are There" or "The Circus Band"
by Charles Ives?  Do you REALLY think that these works would benefit from
a "let it flow" listening, divorced from all those experiences of Americana
which are so integral to the fabric of Ives?  Would you separate "A Survivor
from Warsaw" from the context of the Holocaust?

Brendan Gill recently published a memoir about Joseph Campbell in THE NEW YORK
REVIEW.  His basic argument is that you can go only so far with "follow your
bliss."  After that, it does not take long for self-indulgence and hypocrisy
to take over.  However, if the hot tub fits, I would be the last to deprive
you of your right to wear it.
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg


