From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Thu Apr 30 15:22:13 EDT 1992
Article 5212 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Peano and the commerce of ideas and 
Message-ID: <81551.1139226681@kcbbs.gen.nz>
>From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 23 Apr 92 22:39:11 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 308

> So many questions Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas).  
>   
> At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing. We call that  
> Zero.  
  
"The philosophy exists only as questions, not as answers"  
  
Wahle, R., Die Tragikomoedie der Weisheit. Die Ergebniss und die  
Geschichte des Philosophierens (Wien/Leipzig, 1915), p.41.  
  
                           *   *    
  
In your use, can you say that a reality corresponds to   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' if it  
is true and we can assert it ?  
If yes, so you have a use for 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing'  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
as an explanation of the use of the words: universe/beginning/nothing/zero ?  
  
How did you learn the expression 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Has anyone explained it to you by refering to sensations, images or  
thoughts that accompany hearing   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
Can you construct an application of these-symbols ?  
Is this a definition of "zero" ?  
  
In your use of it, is time enter into 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
  
If you use it as a mathematical proposition, can you prove it in  
mathematics according to certain rules ?  
  
In your use of 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing',   
can you say nothing which happens will ever  
make me/us call it false or give up ?  
  
Would you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
if in its application things were different ?  
  
Is 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' useful in experience 
  
If 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' is a rule,   
do you know how is it used ?  
  
Do you want to join different techniques with the use of   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
Do you want to use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
as a projection ?  
  
Do you want to make 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
independent of experience ? So you want to lay down 'At the beginning of   
the universe, there was nothing' as a foundation which provides a form of  
representation ? a method of description ?  
  
If you don't marvel at the fact that the propositions of arithmetic  
(e.g. the multiplication tables) are "absolutely certain", then why  
should one be astonishted that the proposition   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' is so equally?  
  
Can you say "I don't have to change my opinion that 'At the beginning   
of the universe, there was nothing' " ?  
  
I don't know what you mean, tell me exactly what you mean, or else  
I may be cheated.:->  
I need to know how it is used, do you know how to use it ?  
  
An expression has any amount of use, then how if I tell you a word  
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing', can you have   
the use in your mind in an instant ?  
  
Is this similar to nonsense or to something that is surprising ?  
Are you inclined to call this nonsense ?  
  
Is this nearer to the ordinary case or is it nearer to the absurt  
case ?  
  
Is that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' a rule   
about the use of a symbol or symbols ?  
  
Was 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
first introduced because of experience and now you have  
made it independent of experience; a rule of expression for talking  
about your experiences ?  
  
Is it true that you have arranged your notation in such a way that  
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' is meaningless ?   
and has been excluded ? Is it excluded for experiencial reasons,   
however the statement that it is impossible is not an experiencial statement ?
  
When you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
can you say it is impossible ? If so, is this a rule of expression ?  
Is this 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
a paradigm/an-object-of-comaprison and you want to use it as a model ?  
If yes, is it useful ?  
        is it useless ?  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
as a picture of an experiment ?  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
as a stadard for the experiment, so it is non-temporal ?  
  
Do you use it as a historic description of an event, so it is temporal ?  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
to construct concepts like "zero"?  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
to describe objects ?  
  
Do you want to fix and teach 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' as a technique ?  
  
Do you want 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
to serve as a paradigm which is timeless ?  
  
Do you use 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
as a standard of comparison as a paradigm for the technique ?  
  
Do you want to make up your mind what you want to do with   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
Before you answer the following questions don't gaze at a form of  
words forgetting my asking you what is done with it. Don't gaze to  
your own soul to see if two expressions have the same meaning but  
gaze how you use it.  
  
In your use of 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
is it meaningful to affix to 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' by definition ?  
  
Does 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
have its sense in a system of proofs ?  
  
Do you want this sentence 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' to work ?  
  
Would it is true that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
make any difference how you use it later ?  
  
Leave alone it's meaning does 'At the beginning of the universe, there was   
nothing' have a use ? If not why don't you eliminate it ?   
If you do that wouldn't it be a modification other than closing certain   
doors ? Would it ?  
  
This shows what you do with 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' : Have you chosen 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' to get to a certain point ?  
You don't know what 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
means ? Want to try again ? :->  
  
Do you have grounds for doubting that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
  
Has experience shown it to be unnecessary that 'At the beginning of the   
universe, there was nothing' ?  
Can you say that experience always proves you right that   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'?  
  
Does 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' state part of   
the picture you form to help you in the judgement of various situations ?  
  
Do you need to satisfy yourself by saying that 'At the beginning of the   
universe, there was nothing' to be able to act ?  
  
If I pronounce the opposite of that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' . would you regard me as demented ?  
  
Can you say: I cannot give you any grounds that 'At the beginning of   
the universe, there was nothing', but if you learn more you too will   
think the same ?  
  
Does it make sense to doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Can you doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
What is it like to make such a mistake as that 'At the beginning of the   
universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
What is it like to discover that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' was a mistake ?  
What could a mistake here be like that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
  
Is this 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' supposed   
to be an empirical proposition ?  
  
Is the hypothesis 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
possible ?  
  
Can you say if I am wrong about this 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing', I have no guarantee that anything I say is true ?  
  
Can you say if you are wrong about this 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing', you have no guarantee that anything you say is true ?  
  
What would the practical effects of this belief 'At the beginning of the   
universe, there was nothing' be ?  
Is it difficult to imagine why anyone should believe the contrary ?  
  
What could induce you to believe the opposite ?  
Can you imagine the opposite of 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
  
Is this proposition 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
must be solid for you ?  
  
Is this 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
a fact that you are certain of to be certain of the meaning of your   
words such as "universe/beginning/nothing" ?  
  
Can you say that it stands fast for me and many others that   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'?  
  
Is it possible for you to doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ? Why ?  
Could you try to doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Can you say everything speaks for 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Can you say nothing against 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
If you doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
how would your doubt come out in practice ?  
If it makes no difference at all enjoy your doubt !!!:->  
  
Is this 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'  
a revelation of God. If yes, when did He revealed it, via whom ?  
What was the occassion to reveal it? In which scripture of God it is  
recorded ?  
  
What are you doing in believing that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
What are you believing if you believe 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Can you say that one can only believe that 'At the beginning of the universe, 
there was nothing', and even that one can't believe ?  
Why do you believe that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' 
    Have you reasons ?  
    Do you need reasons ?  
On what ground do you believe that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
What does this belief 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
consist in ?  
  
Why should it be possible to have grounds for believing that   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' if it isn't possible   
to be certain ?  
  
Can you say: nothing in the world will convince me of the opposite  
that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
Can you say: for me this fact 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' is at the bottom of all knowledge ?  
Can you say: I shall give upother things but not this   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
Can you say: I can't be wrong about it that 'At the beginning of   
the universe, there was nothing' ?  
Can you say: I cannot depart from this judgement without toppling  
all other judgements with it that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ?  
Can you say: I cannot be making mistake about it that 'At the beginning   
of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
If your use of that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
is not to be a merely an observation about grammar, can you give the   
circumstances in which this expression 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' functions ?  
  
If you doubt that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing',   
would you have to doubt all sorts of things that stands fast for you ?  
  
Can you say that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'   
is a hypothesis, which as you believe, is again and again completely confirmed
Are you not ready to let anything count as a disproof of this proposition   
'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
  
Here you have arrived at a foundation of all your beliefs, what would it be   
like to doubt 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing' ?  
What would you believe if you didn't believe that 'At the beginning of   
the universe, there was nothing' ?  
So far you have no system at all within which this doubt might  
exist ? You have arrived at the rock bottom of your convictions ?  
and one might almost say that these foundation walls are carried by  
the whole house ?  
  
Suppose it wasn't true that 'At the beginning of the universe,   
there was nothing' ? How should you imagine the mistake being discovered ?  
  
If you know that 'At the beginning of the universe, there was nothing'  
, do you also know, or do you only believe,  
that no future experience will seem to contradict your knowledge ?  
If yes that is after all a decision. It is possible that you will  
act against it.  
  
>   
> Next question please...  
>   
Next revelation please...:->  
> ____  
>   
> Gordon Joly                                       +44 71 387 7050 ext 3703  
> Internet: G.Joly@cs.ucl.ac.uk        UUCP: ...!{uunet,uknet}!ucl-cs!G.Joly  
> Computer Science, University College London, Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT  
>   


