From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!asylum.utah.edu!tolman Thu Apr 16 11:34:32 EDT 1992
Article 5096 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: tolman%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman)
Subject: Re: The 'Big Bang' and the origin of 'mathematical  objects'
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:55:39 MDT
Message-ID: <1992Apr14.115539.26623@hellgate.utah.edu>
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
References: <kth7fnINNflu@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> <1992Apr2.181440.11808@guinness.idbsu.edu>
Lines: 24

In article <1992Apr2.181440.11808@guinness.idbsu.edu> holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:

>	Mathematical objects are not physical--the "Big Bang" is
>irrelevant to their existence or non-existence.  They are also
>eternal (they have no relationship to time) and therefore the question
>of a physical beginning for such objects makes no sense.


Ummmm...  Mathematical objects only exist within your head.  Your computation
and internal "gut" feeling are physical artificacts, embedded in the physicsl
world.  Let us consider any sort of mathematical concept:

  It relies on axioms, which are built up into proofs.

Where did these axioms come from?  Why did you choose them?  Euclid chose
his axioms, and some of them seemed to be incorrect to Riemann, who
developed the basics needed for relativity.  Where the hell are the
axioms coming from?  From your head!  They are physically instantiated.

So what you are arguing is that something "self consistent" exists outside
of space and time.  This is a meaningless conjecture.  The very idea
of contingency and relationship is only something founded within our 
universe.  Asserting that some aspect of humanity is beyond time and space
is merely arrogant nonsense.


