From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!kla!zardoz Tue Nov 19 11:09:13 EST 1991
Article 1220 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!kla!zardoz
>From: kla!zardoz@sun.com (Phillip Wayne)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Animal Intelligence vs Human Intelligence
Message-ID: <1991Nov6.224055.8763@sun!kla>
Date: 6 Nov 91 22:40:55 GMT
References: <37311@shamash.cdc.com> <1991Oct24.234823.7560@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> <37443@shamash.cdc.com>
Sender: news@sun!kla
Organization: KLA Instuments, Inc.
Lines: 50

In article <37443@shamash.cdc.com> map@svl.cdc.com writes:
>
>Fair enough - I did (a long time ago).  Guess what?  The Washoe
>experiment (and many others) was thoroughly debunked by a
>behaviorist by the name of Herb Tares (sp?).  Tares put a chimp
>named Nim Chimpsky thru the same kind of training given to Washoe,
>but he also videotaped every interaction between Nim and humans.

>Upon analyzing the videos, it was discovered that a large majority of
>the signs that Nim gave were revealed to him (unknowingly) by the
>humans, fractions of a second before he signed.  Tares (who prior to
>the experiment thought apes had language) concluded that Nim was
>using signs as a perceptual-level mechanism to get what he wanted -
>no different in principle from a dog shaking hands for a treat.  

Excuse me? In a fraction of a second I make a sign, and Nim hands it `
back to me? Cute. How do I sign that fast?

>Tares further concluded that Nim had no understanding whatsoever of the
>meaning of the signs he used without prompting - he merely associated 
>one perceptual level thing (a sign) with another (e.g., apple, bird).
>In short, all Nim needed to do what he did was a functioning sensory 
>apparatus, memory, and the ability to associate one object with another -
>nothing even remotely close to a conceptual faculty was required.

That is a basic definition of language. Associating one set of signs
for a perception. I hope you never meet an AmeSLan signer. You 
will probably never believe that they are actually intelligent.

<sigh>,

>Shortly after Tares' book came out, the money for ape language 
>research dried up, and research in the field dropped nearly to zero.
>Today, poor Washoe has to depend on charity to stay alive.
  
The money has not "dried up". It is still quite there, and the study with
Washoe is still ongoing. Seems that, quite by accident, someone came
across this troup of chimps (with Washoe) signing AmeSLan. 

(For real, folks). Just LaMarkian, right?

>Humanocentric?  You bet! (and with good reason).

There is never a good reason for a locked mind.

-- 
+----------------------------------------------+
| When you do it to me, it's discrimination    | These are my opinions.
|    When I do it to you, it's AA              |   Oy vey, are they my opinions
+----------------------------------------------+      Zardoz


