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>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.tech,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Consciousness (was Re: Daniel Dennett)
Message-ID: <1991Nov28.104646.5970@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 28 Nov 91 15:46:44 GMT
References: <1991Nov26.232035.5031@milton.u.washington.edu> 
 <1991Nov26.230236.5943@husc3.harvard.edu> <1991Nov27.223317.29140@milton.u.washington.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
Lines: 91
Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu

In article <1991Nov27.223317.29140@milton.u.washington.edu> 
monaghan@milton.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:

>In article <1991Nov26.230236.5943@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>>In article <1991Nov26.232035.5031@milton.u.washington.edu> 
>>monaghan@milton.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:

>>>In article <1991Nov26.135953.5926@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>>>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

TM:
>>>Hold your horses there, partner.  Are you implying that the mind exists
>>>beyond the functioning of the brain?

MZ:
>>Exactly.

TM:
>>>                                     That there is some 'magik' going on?

MZ:
>>Not at all.  Spinoza was able to give a perfectly good rationalist theory
>>of mind that stipulated panpsychism, among other thing.  In other words,

TM:
>magic by any othername would still be beyond nature.

Nature is everything that exists (recall that Spinoza uses the term *Deus
sive natura*, "God or nature"), so, in one sense, if magic existed, it
would be natural.  In another sense, anything that can be rationally
explained is natural; Spinoza claims that everything can be rationally
explained.  On the other hand, in assuming that the natural is limited to
the material, you are begging the question of reductive materialism.

TM:
>Based on my (limited) reading of Spinoza, I don't see where he specifies
>any distinction between mind and brain.  The mind (perception, recognition,
>and understanding) are but a name given to the normal function of the brain.

Look into the "Ethics" Part II, Proposition 7, and the consequences
thereof; Bennett's book on the same would be most helpful for understanding
the issue of psychophysical parallelism.

TM:
>I agree that resolving the functioning of the brain my be intractable, but
>I can not ascribe to "panpsychism", witchcraft, of the spirit world.

I cannot subscribe to materialism if I see it lacking in explanatory power
for producing a working theory of language.

MZ:
>>As I have argued, you lose the possibility of explaining semantical
>>understanding as a function of the mind.

TM:
>But the mind is but a function of the brain.

I don't think so.

>Cheers,
>
>Tracy
>monaghan@u.washington.edu
>
>--------------------------
>
>The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange
>protein -- it rejects it.
>		-- P. Medawar

Is that what you are doing?

Regards,
MZ

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: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
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