From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!ukma!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!zariski!zeleny Tue Nov 26 12:30:32 EST 1991
Article 1400 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Xref: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca rec.arts.books:10140 sci.philosophy.tech:993 comp.ai.philosophy:1400
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!ukma!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!zariski!zeleny
>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.tech,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Daniel Dennett (was Re: Commenting on the pos
Message-ID: <1991Nov19.101612.5603@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 19 Nov 91 15:16:10 GMT
References: <1991Nov15.003438.11323@grebyn.com> <1991Nov15.160741.5495@husc3.harvard.edu> <14920@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
Lines: 68
Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu

In article <14920@castle.ed.ac.uk> 
cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:

>In article <1991Nov15.160741.5495@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>zeleny@walsh.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>>In article <1991Nov15.003438.11323@grebyn.com> 
>>fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Oceanstar) writes:

FO:
>>>I asked Mikhail Zeleny to elaborate on his labeling of Dennett "a
>>>charlatan," 

MZ:
>>My guideline is very simple: if you see someone offer a reductive argument
>>purporting to explain the properties of mind ....
>>in terms of the .... properties of the brain, you may conclude that 
>>he is a charlatan or an ignoramus.
>
>>Moreover, there also
>>exist sound theoretical reasons for rejecting any theory that purports to
>>reduce human intelligence to the rank of properties of Turing machines.
>>For those unconvinced by the arguments of Penrose ....

CM:
>Fascinating! I have a simple guideline too: any supposed philosopher who
>finds the arguments of Penrose convincing is a fool or an ignoramus.
>This is a most entertaining new way of conducting philosophical debates,
>but being new to it, I'm not quite sure how to proceed from this
>hilarious standoff.

You might proceed by offering a justification for your views.  Please note
that when you are supposing someone a philosopher, it might be prudent to
examine his arguments, instead of ridiculing his conclusions.  On the other
hand, given your penchant for reducing thinkers to adjectives, you might be
able to dismiss Penrosianism (never mind humble Zelenianism) as facilely as
you have dismissed Cartesianism in an earlier discussion.

CM:
>By the way, for those who find the ideas of Daniel Dennett interesting,
>there is an encouraging review of his new book by Rorty in the current
>issue of the London Review of Books.

This, of course, assumes that Rorty still has some credibility in the
English-speaking world.  Can a nihilist tell the difference between a
charlatan and an ignoramus?  Would you buy an artificial intelligence, 
or any other form of technology, from a follower of Heidegger?

>-- 
>Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
>Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
>5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205


'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
: Qu'est-ce qui est bien?  Qu'est-ce qui est laid?         Harvard   :
: Qu'est-ce qui est grand, fort, faible...                 doesn't   :
: Connais pas! Connais pas!                                 think    :
:                                                             so     :
: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
: 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707                                   :
: Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139                                     :
: (617) 661-8151                                                     :
: email zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu or zeleny@HUMA1.BITNET            :
:                                                                    :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'


