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Article 1183 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: kurt@diku.dk (Kurt M. Alonso)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: MIND, BRAIN, CONCIOUSNESS
Message-ID: <1991Nov1.125955.18194@odin.diku.dk>
Date: 1 Nov 91 12:59:55 GMT
References: <1991Oct29.214816.23349@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> <37577@shamash.cdc.com> <1991Oct31.123035.20723@odin.diku.dk> <37623@shamash.cdc.com>
Sender: kurt@rimfaxe.diku.dk
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen
Lines: 53

map@u02.svl.cdc.com (Mark Peters) writes:

>In <1991Oct31.123035.20723@odin.diku.dk> kurt@diku.dk (Kurt M. Alonso) writes:

>>map@u02.svl.cdc.com (Mark Peters) writes:

>>>In <1991Oct29.214816.23349@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> las@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:

>>>>I once asked a Zen master this question. First he laughed at me, and
>>>>then he said:

>>>>"Brain happens to conciousness. Mind happens to brain after brain is
>>>>happening to conciousness". 
>>>>[Rest deleted for space]

>>>[Stuff deleted for space]

>>>This Zen master said that "brain happens to consciousness," which
>>>implies that consciousness came first, then the brain.  The proper
>>>view is that both mind and consciousness arise from the nature of
>>>the brain (and of the rest of the nervous system).

>>I think you are wrong. Consciousness is a meaning-giving activity,
>>and as such, it "creates" the brain by pointing out somewhere in the
>>blue and "exclaiming" BRAIN!. Afterwards, it creates the
>>mind as the holder of consciousness. Therefore, logically speaking,
>>consciousness precedes the brain. Historically, and if you are
>>a realist, the brain may precede mind and consciousness. However,
>>and just to loop the loop (:-), History itself is a product of
>>consciousness.

>Well, you are using the term "creates" in a very strange way, and it
>appears that you realize this (else why enclose it in quotes?).  It
>is true that the discovery of the brain as the seat of consciousness
>happened long after we knew we were conscious, but then that event
>was the *discovery* of the brain, not the creation of it.

Actually, and since consciousness is a meaning-giving activity,
the world in general is not "discovered" but, properly speaking,
created. Consciousness also _intentionally_ sets the arbitrary limits
 of singular things-in-the-world, thereby also creating  things 
like brain or whatever you like. It is in this sense that consciousness 
precedes brain or mind. Zen, as well as deconstructionism in contemporary
philosphy tries to make patent the arbitrariness of the chosen limits of
the things that populate our world.


>--
>Mark A. Peters                              ****** ======================
>Control Data Corporation                    ****** == "What a save!!!" ==
>Internet: map@svl.cdc.com                   ****** == "What an idea!!" ==

Kurt.


