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Article 1940 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.tech,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Existence
Message-ID: <1991Dec7.173732.6277@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 7 Dec 91 22:37:31 GMT
References: <1991Dec6.204854.2218@arizona.edu> <1991Dec7.070815.6257@husc3.harvard.edu> <1991Dec7.123551.2220@arizona.edu>
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In article <1991Dec7.123551.2220@arizona.edu> 
bill@NSMA.AriZonA.EdU (Bill Skaggs) writes:

>In article <1991Dec7.070815.6257@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>>In article <1991Dec6.204854.2218@arizona.edu>
>>bill@NSMA.AriZonA.EdU (Bill Skaggs) writes:

BS:
>>>What difference does it make whether the number pi "exists"?

MZ:
>>None whatsoever to the hoi polloi.  What the fuck are you doing posting to
>>a philosophy newsgroup?  {. . . and a bunch of similar stuff}

BS:
>Well, this calls for:
>
>
>		INTELLECTUAL TERRITORIALITY
>
>In many species of mammals the males are territorial:  they compete
>for control of pieces of land.  Males with more desirable territories
>are healthier, more successful in finding mates, and higher in social
>status.
>
>Human males are also territorial, but for *academic* human males the
>territories they compete for are often intellectual rather than
>geographic.  They strive to control domains of knowledge.  Their
>weapons are argument and ridicule (rather than claws or teeth).  
>Intruders are warned off with threat displays (displays of erudition).
>
>Intellectual territory can be very important.  In academia it goes
>a long way toward determining social status.  It can also be a
>great nuisance, at least in science, because it can make the
>desire to understand nature a weaker motivation than the need to
>defend one's ideas.  In extreme cases it can leave the defender
>isolated and embittered, unable to communicate with others.

This is very amusing, but besides the point.  You can't expect to be able
to make intelligent observations on evolutionary biology simply because you
have read "The Selfish Gene"; likewise, you can't make meaningfull comments
on mathematical philosophy simply because you have followed one of the
above newsgroups.

BS:
>Mikhail, yours is one of the most rampant cases of intellectual 
>territoriality I have ever seen.  You respond to any question
>with a threat display.  This is a sign of insecurity:  what are
>you afraid of?  You don't need to be afraid:  we can all see that
>you're a smart guy, and we respect you.  Just lighten up a little,
>all right?  Why don't you try a different strategy:  try welcoming
>others into your territory with gifts of information, rather than
>chasing them away with threats of ridicule.

Sorry, Bill, but you started out with a wholesale denial of validity and
relevance of my discourse.  At the point you asked your question, you had
already given your incorrigible answer; hence my rebuttal.

If you are honestly curious, I'll give you a gift of information.
Mathematical realism is a necessary assumption if you want to explain the
meaningfulness of mathematical discourse, and especially if you want to
account for the truth of its theorems, whose terms must be regarded as
denoting before they can be ascribed any truth-value.  Some people, like
Charles Parsons, are trying to dispense with mathematical objects while
retaining mathematical structures (and so mathematical truth); given that
it is not clear what sort of distinction between the two will respect the
practice of modern mathematics, this philosophy seems to me rather naive.
On the other hand, people like Hartry Field would deny both mathematical
realism and the truthfulness of mathematical discourse; inasmuch as this
view rejects the epistemic entitlement of all mathematics on the grounds of
philosophical prejudice, it seems to be bereft of all intellectual value.

>	-- Bill 

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: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
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