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From: need@bloomfield.uchicago.edu (Barbara Need)
Subject: Re: Comparison of languages for CS1 and CS2
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 18:09:22 GMT
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In article <DD38LB.4CA@tigadmin.ml.com> pardoej@lonnds.ml.com (Julian  
Pardoe LADS LDN X1428) writes:
> 
> In article <KANZE.95Aug9114322@slsvhdt.lts.sel.alcatel.de>,  
kanze@lts.sel.alcatel.de (James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> -->Come now: in French, the standard is at least two negatives.  A
> -->sentence like ``Personne n'en saura plus jamais rien'' is not at all
> -->strange or sub-standard, although it contains five negatives.
> -->(Literally: ``Nobody won't never know nothing no more.''  But I don't
> -->think you'd say it this way in English:-).)  Italian has similar
> -->constructs (``Nessuno non sapera piu mai niente.''  The French, word
> -->for word.)
> 
> Is this true?  The words that accompany `ne' aren't negatives, at least
> in origin.  `pas' means `a step', `personne' means a `person', `aucun'
> (related to `alcuno', `algo') means `something' not `nothing' ...and so.
>  And there used to be more of these words:  `je ne mange miette', `je ne
> vois point'.  I suspect that `(ja)mais' (`mai', `mas') has a positive
> meaning.  I don't know about `rien'.
> 
_rien_ is from a word meaning 'thing'; _mas_ (in _jamais_) is related to  
the Spanish word mweaning 'more'. HOWEVER, in Modern French, _pas_ is  
definitely a negative. In fact, in fast speech it is the ONLY negative
_Je ne sais pas_ ends up sounding like, Shaipa. I suspect the others are  
now considered negatives (having NO positive uses).

Barbara Need
University of Chicago--Linguistics
[more stuff deleted]
