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From: hinsenk@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA (Hinsen Konrad)
Subject: Re: Esperanto? The EU? (Very, very long)
In-Reply-To: livesey@solntze.engr.sgi.com's message of 16 Feb 1995 02:34:35 GMT
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Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:27:30 GMT
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In article <3hudjr$41@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.engr.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

   |> I cannot remember anyone but you claiming that this would
   |> have to be the first step.

   On the contrary, Mr Hinsen.   It was you that claimed Esperanto
   need not be imposed.   It was you that claimed it need not be

Indeed I said what need not be done. But the positive conclusion
about what needs to be done is yours. And it is not a necessary
consequence of what I said.

   made a standard by bureaucrats.   It was you who claimed it need
   not be subsidiised or singled out for special treatment.

I certainly didn't used these words.

   Now you seem to say that in reality all of these special steps 
   must be taken.

I never said that either.

   Really?   You want a language which is currently neither an official
   nor a working language of the EC to be introduced, studies financed
   at taxpayer expence on how to teach it, then you want it to be
   taught.   All this costs money, and since, when people are left to 

I didn't ask for any of this. I asked for a study on its usefulness
when taught as a first foreign languages. It needn't be introduced
(it already exists) and it is already well known how to teach it.
I don't ask that it be taught unless the result of the study shows
that it is advantageous.

   their own devices they don't learn it on their own, some persuasion
   of some form will have to be applied.    Sure sounds like quite a

The only persuasion I am asking for is the above-mentioned study,
whose results of course should be made public.

   subsidy and some form of special treatment to me.

I can agree on "special treatment", but I see nothing wrong
with it. It's not what I would call a subsidy, but rather
an investment (where I define an investment to be an expenditure
made in the hope of gaining and/or saving a larger amount
of money later on).

   I call it a subsidy when taxpayers have to finance an enterprise
   that can't generate its market for itself.   What do you call it?

According to that definition, all government expenditures
are subsidies. My definition of a subsidy is "financial support
given to an enterprise that in principle does generate profit,
but does not generate sufficient profit to keep itself alive".
Since scientific studies in general do not generate profit, their
costs are not subsidies according to my definition.

BTW, Webster's defines a subsidy as "a grant by a government to a
private person or company to assist an ent erprise deemed advantageous
to the public". That also excludes the proposed scientific study,
since its cost is not given to a private person or company.

--
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Konrad Hinsen                     | E-Mail: hinsenk@ere.umontreal.ca
Departement de Chimie             | Tel.: +1-514-343-6111 ext. 3953
Universite de Montreal            | Fax:  +1-514-343-7586
C.P. 6128, succ. A                | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/Nederlands/
Montreal (QC) H3C 3J7             | Francais (phase experimentale)
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