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From: jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton)
Subject: Re: Thought Question
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References: <D2KrBv.ExL@spss.com> <D2nw9K.CsL@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> <D2o0s9.3HC@spss.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 04:01:23 GMT
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In article <D2o0s9.3HC@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>In article <D2nw9K.CsL@cogsci.ed.ac.uk>,
>Jeff Dalton <jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>>markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>>>Greg Stevens <stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>>>I think what was being asked for us to consider was this: Consider a machine
>>>>that was programmed to respond to stimuli the same as us, but had no
>>>>consciousness.  There would be no evolutionary reason for it to be
>>>>selected out, with us superior, if its behaviors were the same, and all
>>>>it was lacking was subjectivity.  Thus, it seems that there is no
>>>>evolutionary benefit to subjective experience per se.
>>>
>>>You're begging the question.  By assuming that "its behaviors [are] the same",
>>>you assume that consciousness has no behavioral consequences.  Naturally
>>>it will then have no evolutionary consequences either.
>>
>>Suppose the behaviors are the same.  Why would that mean consciousness
>>has no behavioral consequences?  Sure, it would show it was possible
>>to get the behavior w/o consciousness; but it would not show that
>>consciousness was not part of the way in which humans produce the
>>behavior.
>
>That's true.  A better way of making my point might have been to say
>that we could only say that consciousness had no evolutionary benefit
>if we had evidence that conscious beings had at some point to compete with
>unconscious beings with the same behavior.

And why would even that show conscious had no evolutionary benefit?
If consciousness is part of how humans get that behavior, then why
isn't it a benefit?  Perhaps you have some meaning of "evolutionary
benefit" in mind that I'm unfamiliar with.  What I'd have in mind
is roughly that it helps the beasties survice and reporduce.
That some other ceratures couild do the same things in some other
way wouldn't take that away.

For instance, suppose beasties A are winning over beasties B because
they have some behavioral capabilities C that the Bs lack.  Now suppose
some Bs start to develop consciousness and that this brings them
closer to having C.  It's possible, surely, that this might do them
some good in competition w/ As and with creatures of other sorts.

-- jeff

