Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!CERN.ch!dxal18.cern.ch!hallam
From: hallam@dxal18.cern.ch (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Collapse of wave function ripples outwards
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dxal18.cern.ch
Message-ID: <D2EJ8D.4s3@news.cern.ch>
Sender: news@news.cern.ch (USENET News System)
Reply-To: hallam@dxal18.cern.ch
Organization: Wot!!! Me ????
References: <3cn9fk$3uq@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> <3eh0m4$cmh@fred.cs.city.ac.uk> <D1zvLF.Gq3@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca> <3eru46$6g7@fred.cs.city.ac.uk> <jqbD25vsn.9IC@netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 15:33:49 GMT
Lines: 104
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai.philosophy:24627 comp.infosystems.www.misc:16171


In article <jqbD25vsn.9IC@netcom.com>, jqb@netcom.com (Jim Balter) writes:

|>In article <3eru46$6g7@fred.cs.city.ac.uk>,
|>Michael Jampel <jampel@cs.city.ac.uk> wrote:
|>>So from 1935 until 1955 (Einstein's death) or even 1985 (Einstein shown
|>>to be wrong by an experiment), supporters of the Copenhagen
|>>Interpretation conducted a nasty ad hominem propaganda campaign against
|>>Einstein. This was because they could not show that he was wrong by any
|>>reasonable scientific method.

Actually there is no possible experiment that can settle the issue of the
mechanistic universe versus the probabalistic one. It is directly analogous to
the problem of free will which is equally insoluble. It is equally possible to 
construct a mechanistic theory of quantum mechanics by postulating the existence 
of hidden variables. Alternatively one can assert that the uncertainty results
are not proof of the impossiblity of observation and are instead demonstrations
of the incomensurability of matter interations at the quantum and macroscopic 
scales. On this view the uncertainty relation between say position and velocity
is due to these macroscopic attributes being different aspects of the same
phenomena at the quantum level. Such a view would claim that what we see as 
uncertainty is simply a barrier that we are at present unable to see through.

I am aware of the claims to have `disproved' the hidden variable question but
do not accept them as conclusive any more than I regard Searle's Chineese 
room as `proving' that computers can't understand. Such claims have an
invariable tendency towards circular reasoning, explicit in the Searle case,
implicit in the assumption of the nature of the hidden variables. I am
quite happy with a Universe that contains rigidly defined areas of doubt and
uncertainty. That people are not tends to be because they have taken the 
logical positivist manifesto a little too seriously, not realising that the
questions ameanable to solution through logic are not necessarily those that
are most urgently in need of solution.


|>>I think it is important that the generally accepted line "Einstein:
|>>clever until 1930, stupid afterwards" is challenged. Yes, he turned out
|>>to be wrong when choosing which of two incompatible horses to back. Yes,
|>>it is no sin for a scientist to be wrong, and it is not propaganda for
|>>another scientist simply to suggest that Einstein got it wrong. But
|>>what was actually done WAS propaganda and was as morally wrong as
|>>ad hominem propaganda always is.

The reason why Einstein ceased to be as influential after 1930 was that the main
work was taking place at a different level. Quantum mechanics and relativity 
were both established and the main consideration was on integrating these 
discoveries into more concrete observations. Einstein continued to work on the
grand scale rather than the direct level. He realised that there was still an
unresolved crisis in our understanding of the universe and it was this that 
he was most concerned with. The fact that he did not succeed is irrelevant since
nobody else has since.


|>Supporters of the CI had considerable help from those who opposed Einstein's
|>personal views (democratic socialist, pacifist, world federalist, "premature
|>anti-fascist" and supporter of the Spanish Republic, supporter of Ethel and
|>Julius Rosenberg, zionist, "deeply religious nonbeliever").  Einstein was
|>portrayed either as an "egghead" who had delved into areas beyond his
|>expertise (one could take that as applying either to politics or to the
|>unified field theory) or as a dangerous radical (Joe McCarthy called him "an
|>enemy of America").  His FBI file labeled him as a "Pacifist and Communist
|>Sympathizer" and a "liberal thinker" and contained various (false) allegations
|>of Communist sympathies and associations, as well as material developed by the
|>FBI and the INS with an eye toward revoking his citizenship.

Well thats the land of the free for you.

|>I did a paper on Einstein in 9th grade, and the bio I got from the school
|>library didn't even state his political views, dismissing them as "naive".

Interesting fact, every time a western news report mentions the history taught
in Japanese schools it is asserted that these attempt to hide the `truth' about
the second world war. What is meant by this is that they begin the story with the
Roosevelt trade embargo against Japan and not with Perl Harbour which in US
folklore is an unprovoked attack. It is much easier to see cultural bias in other
countries than ones own. Einsteins political views would in no way be unusual 
for a European academic, in fact the majority of european academics would
counsider themselves to be `liberal thinkers'.

Information technology is going to pull down some of these cultural stocomas
very quickly. In each case it is the ruling elite that is threatened since
the one common feature of such `omissions' is that they support the interests 
of those in power.

The French government has just taken ofver the presidency of the European Union 
and announced its intention to persue a policy of cultural autarky. controls
are to be introduced to prevent the `pollution' of European culture by outside
influence. As one example of this the French attempted to have Ted Turners
cartoon channel stopped because the cartoons are mainly from the US. This is
hardly suprising though  since the motion cartoon as an art form is almost 
entirely a US invention. It was the work of Quimbly, Avery, Dysney, and  
the early work of Hanna and Barbera that established cartoons as an art form.
They are in fact an international art form since many cartoons do not rely
on language alone for humour and translate across cultural boundaries.

I beleive that such isolationism is not only damaging to genuine art but must
be actively resisted. There must be no cultural veto imposed on the net by
any country. Nor shall there be. 


--
Phillip M. Hallam-Baker

Not Speaking for anyone else.
