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From: elna@netcom.com (Esperanto League N America)
Subject: Re: How to get a conial used
Message-ID: <elnaE7xILr.Do5@netcom.com>
Organization: Esperanto League for North America, Inc.
References: <276@vision25.demon.co.uk> <5hcf74$1of@netsrv2.spss.com> <859459799.22257@dejanews.com> <5hhnfa$3lj@netsrv2.spss.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:32:15 GMT
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Sender: elna@netcom2.netcom.com

markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes in a recent posting (reference <5hhnfa$3lj@netsrv2.spss.com>):
>
>Sorry-- immediate utility is of overwhelming evidence in bilingualism, 
>no matter what Francis Fukuyama would like to believe.
>
I agree with this, but would like to point out the subjective and changeable
nature of this phrase "immediate utility".

>You seem to be saying that the only factor in Ben Yahuda's success was
>(Jewish) nationalism.  I don't think so.  I don't see that people learn
>languages because of nationalism.  The vast majority learn (only) languages 
>of immediate utility to them.  Israel was not a nation in the late 1800s;
>nor was there even a community (even scattered) of speakers of modern
>Hebrew to provide such a utility.  Nor did Zionism lead to significant
>learning of Hebrew anywhere else in the world.
>
Although Israel did not exist at that time, Jewishness did, and the desire
to experience and enhance one's Jewish identity also existed. Does a 
culturally based longing to rekindle the heat of a long-dead nation count
as a form of "immediate utility"? I would say that it does.

What could Esperantists learn from this?
Perhaps a parallel longing to kindle a truly international culture could
motivate people to react to the "immediate utility" of a planned inter-
national language.

The original replies to Mark's question were IMHO too quick and ill-conceived.
Although it is true that on the surface there is little parallel between a
project to revive a language with specific nationalistic heritage and a
project to spread a new language which eschews and undermines nationalism,
Mark has time and again pointed out that there are several general categories
of reasons why any person will decide to learn any language.

Clearly the motivation for a university student in China or Brazil who has
decided to study English is more likely based in economics than in broad
matters of nationalism. A Chinese student who decides to learn Hebrew will
likely not have the same intention as a London-born Jew who studies Hebrew.

Since there is (at the present time-- this is changing) little economic
motivation to learn Esperanto, one must investigate other spheres. It
seems likely that some form of parallel to Zionism-- say Internationalism,
with a capital "I"-  is among the candidates both to explain why people
now learn the language, and to inform the campaign to spread its use.

Nationalism and Internationalism *are* parallel phenomena.

FWIW many Esperanto-speaking youth in Europe have said that they learned
the language simply to party at Esperanto Youth events, yet most American
Esperantists have cited the "interna ideo" --the idealistic goals of
Esperanto-- as their strongest attraction.   Maybe if we had easier access
to all those European bashes, we would more readily attract the party
animals!

>(Nations can of course foster the learning of their own languages out of 
>nationalism, for instance by providing primary education only in the 
>national language.  But again, this doesn't apply in the case of Ben Yahuda-- 
>there was no Israeli nation at the time, nor even an informal community
>of Hebrew speakers.)
>
Yes, but for many centuries the slogan "Next year in Jerusalem" was a
constant reminder to keep alive the nation and by extension its language.
Every Jewish boy learned at least a few token prayers in Hebrew.

But alas, there is little grand-scale longing to create world-scale
government, international culture, or even world peace. We humans are
mostly content to stew in nationalistic camps whose contentious struggles
erupt all-too-often into massive warfare.

I should like to apply Mark's criterion to political spheres: what is the 
immediate utility of the nation-state? or of international cooperation
outside of the club of nation-states? or of a language which encourages
direct democratic interaction outside of the field of influence of the
club of nation-states?

If the profound desire of Jews to re-establish a Jewish state is ever
mirrored by a similar desire to create a legitimate International 
government, then the *immediate utility* of Esperanto (or some other 
international language) will be self-evident.

Until then, Esperanto propaganda must focus on areas of *current*
applicability: tourism, letter-exchange, translations of exotic
literature, uncensored information in media, citizen diplomacy, etc.


-- 
Miko SLOPER              elna@esperanto-usa.org       USA  (510) 653 0998
Direktoro de la          http://www.esperanto-usa.org  fax (510) 653 1468 
Centra Oficejo de la     Learn Esperanto! Free lessons: e-mail/snail-mail
Esperanto-Ligo de N.A.   Write to above address or call:  1-800-ESPERANTO
