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From: lilandbr@scn.org (Leland Bryant Ross)
Subject: Re: Is etruscan lang. an indoeuropean one?
Message-ID: <E1x924.Kz6@scn.org>
Sender: news@scn.org
Reply-To: lilandbr@scn.org (Leland Bryant Ross)
Organization: Seattle Community Network
References: <5817q8$pe2@halley.pi.net> <piero.pollesello-0312961209140001@160.71.35.35>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 03:44:28 GMT
Lines: 37


In a previous article, mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal) says, anent
<piero.pollesello@rd.orion.orion.mailnet.fi> (Piero Pollesello)'s supposi-
tion that Etruscan is ancestral to the Celtic loans in English) wrote: 

>Not so fast.  Gaelic clann "offspring, clan", Irish cland "plant,
>offspring", seem to be derived from Latin planta.

In this context, "seem to be" (to my sense of English) implies "may be, 
quite possibly are".  Is this what you meant, Miguel?  I had somehow always
assumed the q-versus-p or Goidelic-versus-Brythonic or whatever you want 
to call it sound shift had occurred at a time depth where "Latin" in the 
normal sense of the term didn't exist yet, or (at the least) hadn't made 
much of a splash in the British Isles, or even Gaul.  Are you suggesting 
that the Goidelic languages (ergo, presumably, all Celtic languages) are 
*derived from* Latin, as contrasted with a common Italo-Celtic ancestor, 
or are you saying that the earliest Goidelic reflex of "clan(n/d)" was 
actually a *loan* from Latin within what from the Latin point of view was 
the historical period?  And that either the q/p shift was that late, or 
that even *after* the shift the Gaels or Irish or whoever continued to 
apply the shift on an ongoing basis to *new loans*?!  That strikes me as 
pretty weird--the sort of thing some of us Esperantists occasionally do 
as we tinker with and between our tongues, but that I wouldn't think 
ordinary Irishmen of the (say) third century would have the linguistic 
sophistication to be able to imagine, much less implement.

>Mego zontasto Sainatei Reitiiai porai Egeotora Aimoi ke louzerophos.
>Egeotora gave me to good Reitia the Healer for Aimos and the kids.

Thanks, I've never seen any Venetic before.


--
Liland Brajant ROS'    			Ae, ka manu iluna oka hale,
P O Box 30091      			"O" ku'u leo "E moe maika'i," 
Seattle, WA 98103 Usono			Kani ku'u leo, ku'u hoapu,
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