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From: Peter Hullah <Peter.Hullah@eurocontrol.fr>
Subject: Re: endings: "thierselves" vs. "themselves" etc.
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:11:37 GMT
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John Lawler wrote:
> 
> As to "emself", of course that's written, and is silly, or eye
> dialect, when written.  Spoken, however, /EmsElf/, or more likely
> /@msElf/ with stressed ultima is very close to how a majority
> of American English native speakers actually pronounce both
> "himself" and "themselves", not to mention the occasional
> generic or indeterminate "themself".  The final consonant is
> recognizably labiodental, thus representing either an /f/ or
> a /v/, and the /-z/ plural marker that ostensibly follows /v/
> in the official plural is actually rather rare in normal speech,
> simply because /-vz/ is not a particularly easy cluster to
> articulate, and things like that go first in fast speech.

But it's a lot easier than /fz/ which is why the /s/ becomes a /z/
after /d/, /g/, /v/, /dh/ and /b/ as opposed to remaining an /s/
after /t/, /k/, /f/, /th/ and /p/. In fact, /vz/ is also a lot
easier than /fs/ which is probably why -self becomes -selves in
the plural.

> (listen carefully to the way English speakers say the fraction
>  "five-sixths"; you'll find the /0/ (theta) between the two
>  /s/'s disappears almost totally, because /sIks0s/ is practically
>  impossible to articulate at speed.)

So slow down :-) I've never noticed myself omitting the 'th'.

Pete

-- 

Peter H.C. Hullah                     Technical Services
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