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From: deb5@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: "Wanna come with?" [was: Re: German postpositions]
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References: <521129981.180137108@troubbs.org> <44btbq$c54@clarknet.clark.net> <44bv64$q76@bone.think.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 16:11:23 GMT
Lines: 41

	First of all, thanks to all who have been writing in to let
me know that I was premature in saying that this expression "appears
to be unique to Chicago."  When I first came to this city, it and
"pop" (for "soda" or "coke") were the local expressions all the out-of-
towners (except those also from "pop" regions) singled out for ridicule.
Obviously, my sample wasn't representative.

In article <44bv64$q76@bone.think.com>, Daan Sandee <sandee@Think.COM> wrote:
>In article <44btbq$c54@clarknet.clark.net>, gusty@clark.net (Harlan Messinger) writes:
>|> Perhaps. In German, the infinitive would be "mitgehen", with the 
>|> separable prefix "mit-". In the present tense, the question would be 
>|> "Gehst du mit?" "Mit" in this case is not actually the preposition 
>|> "with", but the separable prefix of "mitgehen", corresponding to English 
>|> particles like "on" in "put on [clothing]" or "up" as in " I give up".
>|> 
>|> I have heard Belgian French speakers ask "Tu viens avec?", the exact 
>|> equivalent to the English "Are you coming with?" I assumed they got it 
>
>I've also heard it in Paris, to my great surprise. And (as in the original
>case of Chicago English) in cases where it wouldn't be used in Dutch or
>German, as in "C'est dommage qu'il ne peut pas venir avec" / "It's a
>pity that he can't come with". 

I'm confused; how is this a case where the expression "wouldn't be used
in Dutch or German"?  German would have "Schade, dass er nicht mitkommen
kann."  

>Oddly enough, although it happens with
>many verbs in Dutch or German, this French example that you and I both
>can produce is the very same one as the original one from Chicago :
>to go with (or to come with, whis is more idiomatic in some languages ;
>"aller avec" also occurs). 

I've read recently of a similar calque in Alsatian French:  "aller voie"
for "weggehen."  Unfortunately, I don't have the reference handy.


-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
