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From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Single European Language
Message-ID: <DAEDrM.CJD@cwi.nl>
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Organization: CWI, Amsterdam
References: <3ruscm$bsg@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <DACF9t.Jxu@cwi.nl> <3s1ur4$66o@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 02:04:33 GMT
Lines: 72

In article <3s1ur4$66o@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> etg10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans) writes:
 > Are you claiming that translation costs become insignificant compared
 > with printing costs for only a few hundred copies, or are you claiming
 > that no text book in Dutch could be sold in more than a few hundred
 > copies?

I think a few hundred copies is indeed the limit for University textbooks;
especially for those in specialized fields.  How many students in the
Netherlands are doing anything serious in Number Theory?
 > 
 > Governments can and should support publishing that is important to
 > education, because governments can and must support education.

Can, I agree with.  Should is something that is open to discussion.
Does the UK government in any financial way support publishing text
books for students?  If not why not?  And why should the Dutch
government give that support?
...
 > > I am fairly sure the Lithuanian's did not pay any fees to the original
 > > holder of the copyright, or at most a nominal fee.
...
 > I think the book was written by Lithuanians, not a translation, but
 > I can't remember whether the authors owned the copyright. They might
 > have been employed to write it. Does it matter?

Sorry, I had the impression that it was about a translated book.  And
there is no allusion to crookness in my remark.  It is just that many
countries do not support the Berne convention with respect to copyright.
(And it is not only the former Soviet Union at work here.  Before the US
adopted the Berne convention some 8 years ago there were many instances
were European stuff was brought out in the US without proper permission
and proper fee because the European copyright was not valid in the US.
Even fairly recently CD companies in Italy could bring out CD containing
copyrighted stuff without asking permission as long as they payed some
fee; and they did.  Italy has for a long time been a big source of
bootleg CD's.)  But this is another field altogether.
...
 > Most things don't get translated at all. Most people don't have
 > private interpreters. Hence the cost of non-communication.

Why is it not translated?  If you think translation is as cheap as you
think it is?
 > 
 > > But now you are talking also about English, so you propose already a
 > > second full scale foreign language (and a third for those speaking a
 > > minority language in their own country), which would increase the current
 > > curriculum.
 > 
 > The EU and the CE want everyone to learn two foreign languages.

Yes, they can wish as much as they want; it will not work.  Nor will the
Esperanto solution in my opinion.  Even now, though most people in the
Netherlands understand quite some English, when a consumer product comes
with a manual that has not been translated well into Dutch there are many
people that will not understand the manual at all.  Changing English to
Esperanto would not help in the least.
...
 > That's their formula for preserving cultural and linguistic
 > diversity in Europe (and avoiding the anglicisation that you so
 > eloquently describe in the case of the Netherlands).

It did not describe anglicisation but affinity.  Just this afternoon I
was looking at MTV-Europe.  Advertisements were mostly in English with
also some in German, Dutch and Hebrew.  Interesting.

Another question, slightly related.  There are quite a few people in
Wales whose native language is Welsh.  Do you think that their first
foreign language should be Esperanto and that English ought to come
after that?
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924098
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
