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From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Single European Language
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References: <3rt4nj$38e@blackrabbit.cs.uoregon.edu> <DAAn2L.DCt@cwi.nl> <3ruscm$bsg@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 00:41:52 GMT
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In article <3ruscm$bsg@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> etg10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans) writes:
 > If a text is to be produced in at least a few thousand copies then
 > translation costs are not really significant compared with printing
 > costs. Looks to me as if the Dutch authorities just don't care.

You think the Dutch authorities should go into the publishing business?
Or what?  But you overstate the number of copies.  In many cases textbooks
are resold amongst students so a few hundred would be closer to the mark
in those cases.
 > 
 > (Same problem exists elsewhere: producing good text books is very
 > important, but unlike research, governments hardly bother doing
 > anything about it. I once saw a fairly high-level chemistry text book
 > in Lithuanian, so maybe that government's an exception.)

I am fairly sure the Lithuanian's did not pay any fees to the original
holder of the copyright, or at most a nominal fee.
...
 > With the emphasis on "immediate"! The indirect costs of the present
 > system of (non)communication are huge.

Please explain, just above for textbooks (that are for a minority)
translation cost is insignificant when compared to printing cost.
So when it comes to paperwork that is apparently not true in your
opinion.  But consider the huge cost when switching to a common
language that is not yet understood by an extremely large majority.
How long will it take until all EU communication can be done in
Esperanto only?  My estimate is some tens of years.  Until that
date arrives you only complicate communication.
 > 
 > >  Try to get around anywhere when the only languages
 > > you (pretend) to know are Dutch and Esperanto.  How would I go around
 > > in the US with those two languages (and, yes, I have no wish to look
 > > around for people of the same mind; I want to wander around and see where
 > > I get).
 > 
 > Dutch and Esperanto would be a good basis for learning English. One
 > of the main reasons for learning a foreign language at schools it to
 > develop the ability to learn other languages.

Not as I see it.  One of the main reasons for learning a foreign language
at schools is to be able to get around when you are outside the country.
But now you are talking also about English, so you propose already a
second full scale foreign language (and a third for those speaking a
minority language in their own country), which would increase the current
curriculum.

 > (I've seen it claimed here in Usenet that the main reason for teaching
 > English is the Netherlands is so that people can watch American TV
 > programmes, but I think that that is an unusual point of view!)

This is a misconstruction of something I have said earlier.  Many
children are already accustomed to quite a bit of English and they
also understand quite a bit.  The reason is that in nearly every series
they see the spoken language is English.  (Yes, we also see Donald Duck
subtitled.)  The only stuff that is dubbed is either for the very young,
or large films (Walt Disney's Lion King for instance) that are also for
the slightly older children (*).  But I know that of the last both the
dubbed and the subtitled version were shown in cinema's.  And I also
do know that 10 year old children prefer the English version of the CD
above the Dutch version.  Of the top-50 CD Singles 8 are Dutch, the
remainder is English/American, but more than 8 are Dutch groups (I do
not know exactly).  Btw, this is not something recent.  Back in the
fifties already most top-hits were American/English.  I assume the same
holds in the Scandinavian countries and in (at least part of) Belgium.
--
* One of the worst you can do is looking to a film dubbed in a language
that you are familiar with but which is not your first language.  I have
seen on occasion on German television English/American films dubbed in
German.  Although I do understand both languages, the films became nearly
incomprehensible.  Mouth movements nearly never match the spoken words,
although they try to do it as good as they are able to; but this is
very distracting.  Also on Dutch television there are a few advertisements
that are dubbed.  It is very easy to determine the original language in
most cases.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924098
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
