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From: deb5@ellis.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: The name of the German nation
Message-ID: <1995Jan25.055115.6228@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <D2KF6p.3v66@austin.ibm.com> <1995Jan18.150432.27596@midway.uchicago.edu> <D2vD00.7CB@festival.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 05:51:15 GMT
Lines: 43

[poster's name accidently deleted] writes:

>You have to take into account the English attitude towards Germany. They
>have here the very convenient historical view of Germany as a nation
>which emerged 1871 (well, give some years, take some) and whose history
>is a history of war and distruction. 

You might want to back up this opinion with, I dunno, some fact of
some sort.  And congratulations on not being able to distinguish
"nation" from "nation state" _and_ for missing my original point,
viz. the reason there are so many names for Germany is that there
was no country of that name until 1871 although the German nation has
existed for centuries.

As for the English attitude toward Germany, I'll appraise the 
British acquaintances I acquired in Germany of it first chance I get.
It's astounding what they don't know about their own culture.

>That was probably cooked up before
>or during WW-one, but -being English- change comes slowly and until
>today the idea of Germany as a nation roughly as old as "Great" Britain,
>naah, pu-leazze. 

Again, substantiation would be nice, but don't trouble yourself
unnecessarily.

>Not that the English are Germans anyway :-)

With the exception of the royal family, no, they're not.  Well, no
more than the Franks, oops, I mean "French."

>Hence no mentioning of a "Holy Germanic Roman Empire" (Heiliges
>Roemisches Reich deutscher Nation, isn't that the correct German term?).

Didn't you see the posting indicating that this term wasn't in use 
before the late 15th century?  A little after the union of Great 
Britain and Wales or the annexation of the Midi by the Ile de France,
weren't it?

-- 
	 Daniel "Da" von Brighoff    /\          Dilettanten
	(deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /__\         erhebt Euch
				   /____\      gegen die Kunst!
