Newsgroups: sci.lang
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From: pardoej@lonnds.ml.com (Julian Pardoe LADS LDN X1428)
Subject: Re: Decline of the 'net
Message-ID: <DF7uou.3J8@tigadmin.ml.com>
Sender: usenet@tigadmin.ml.com (News Account)
Reply-To: pardoej@lonnds.ml.com
Organization: Merrill Lynch Europe
References: <43iuq8$lng@medici.trl.OZ.AU>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:14:53 GMT
Lines: 58

In article <43iuq8$lng@medici.trl.OZ.AU>, jbm@newsserver.trl.oz.au (Jacques Guy) writes:
-->froggy@zikzak.zikzak.net (Robyn McNamara) writes:
-->
-->>I think the prevalence of objective "you and I" is more likely to result
-->>from overcorrection: a child is told that subjective "you and me" is incorrect
-->>and generalises a rule that "you and I" is the _only_ correct form.  
-->
-->Like the famous "It is I", yes. Me, I don't baulk when I hear "you and me"
-->as subject. In fact, I *think* I would say "you and me are in a pretty
-->pickle", not "you and I".  Yes, definitely so. It is "you and I" which
-->rattles me, subject, object or other. 

I prefer "you and I" when it is correct but I'd far rather here "you and me" misused
and than "you and I".  The former is just colloquial, "non-norm" English, the
latter is bogus hypercorrection by people who are trying to be superior and failing
-- well, I know that's an unfair generalization, but...  I have heard people
who don't actually understand the rule correcting "you and me".

I also get wound up about split infinitives, "it is I" and "taller than I".
These are "bogus pedantry".  What on earth has the fact that the Latin infinitive
is one word or that the complement of the Latin verb "to be" is in the nominative
got to do with English?

Not only is "It's me" correct colloquial English in my book but "It is I" is actually
wrong ... and only sounds acceptable because we've all had it drummed into us by these
bogus pedants.  Almost any departure from this exact phrase sounds wrong.  Try
   It's I.
   I asked who did it and it turned out that it was they.
   If you hear a noise in the night, don't worry: it'll only be we.
On the other hand, if a relative clause follows the pronoun then "I" seems OK.
I'd explain that as attraction but I'm not really sure.

I think "taller than I" is pretty much the same.  As far as I can trust my ear
English has two alternatives [whoop, whoop, pedant alert!]:
    He is taller than me
    He is taller than I am

"He is taller than I" is just plain wrong in my book!

Likewise
    Jane loves you more than me
    Jane loves you more than I do

Again, "Jane loves you more than I" is wrong!  The first form is said
to be ambiguous and maybe it is, but that's not a problem in practice
and in any case I think that in my dialect it is not ambiguous: the first form
is hardly ever used if the meaning "Jane loves you more than I love you"
is intended.

I guess the reason I get so wound up about this is that my father is one of
those who is always criticizing other people's English and if I try to explain
to him that, more often than not, the arguments for the ``correct'' form
are often counter-logical and that it's not clear how relevant logical
arguments are in matters of usage, he falls back on the argument that we should
do "what the right people do".  Purlease!  (How do you spell that?)

-- jP --

