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From: rte@elmo.lz.att.com (Ralph T. Edwards)
Subject: Re: Dutch and English accents
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References: <D8rGGz.5FM@midway.uchicago.edu> <D9rt2x.6nJ@actcom.co.il> <3r9va7$f8l@nic.wi.leidenuniv.nl> <173BD792FS86.BMADDISO@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:57:16 GMT
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In article <173BD792FS86.BMADDISO@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca>,
BMADDISO@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca wrote:

> In article <3r9va7$f8l@nic.wi.leidenuniv.nl>
> se9402@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl (R.Wagenaar) writes:
>  
> >Not your language as an _individual_, but British English defined as
> >the language that _all_ Britons speak', and that is taught in schools
> >in Europe and elsewhere.
>  
> While it _is_ wrong to say that all Brits speak RP, the important point
> is that all Brits and other English speakers can _understand_ it when
> they hear it.
> The main reason for this is the clear and full enunciation of the
> different vowel sounds. As a Brit living in North America I occasionally
> have trouble with words like _shop_ and _sharp_ which are sounded the
> same in a lot of areas.

This a classical case of differing phoneme boundaries.

Shop is /SAp/ and sharp is /SArp/ or /S@rp/, probably the latter in
eastern Canada (@r is NOT the sound of fur fur is /fR/ or whatever symbol
you wish to use for the retroflex r colored vowel).  The problem here is
not that they are pronounced alike, but that you map both sounds to the RP
phoneme /A:/

 In Eastern Canada the same problem can be heard
> with _about_ and _a boat_.

Same sort of issue.  about is /@ b@Ut/ and a boat is /@ bot/ since in
Britain /@U/ and /o/ are allophones for the sound in boat, you lump them
together.  If you listen carefully, you will hear that ou (spelled) words
are always a clear diphthong, and "long o" words are monophthongs
(especially in Canada, but also in nearby areas of the US).  Where a clear
diphthong is used for "long o" in the US it normally is /oU/, not /@U/,
but the latter does occur.  In Britain /o:/, /oU/ and /@U/ are all
commonly heard for the vowel of /boat/.  Roughly /o:/ in Scotland and the
north (also in Ireland) and /@U/ in the south, and /oU/ in between.

The problem is not lack of distinction in production, but lack of
distinction in hearing.  US listeners are more likely to confuse the vowel
of Canadian out, about with /u/, since /@U/ is more often an allophone of
/u/ than of /o/ in the US.  Most US speakers say /AU/ for out, about.

>  
> If the original poster intends to use his English worldwide, then RP _is_
> probably best. If the English is just for one particular area, thenthe
> local pronunciation or dialect would likely be more useful.

Thank you for your unbiased opinion. :-) :-).

>  
>  Brian  Maddison

Perhaps someone from central or south America could offer their opinion
about what is or should be taught there?

-- 
R.T.Edwards rte@elmo.att.com 908 576-3031
