Newsgroups: alt.politics.ec,sci.lang
From: philip@storcomp.demon.co.uk (Phil Hunt)
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!newshost.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!storcomp.demon.co.uk!philip
Subject: Re: English as the European language (not) (Re: Languages in the EC)
References: <3ha0n3INNmq5@SUNED.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU> <792815519snz@storcomp.demon.co.uk> <donhD44Ev2.Dsz@netcom.com> <793073556snz@storcomp.demon.co.uk> <donhD499IL.ICI@netcom.com>
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:52:44 +0000
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In article <donhD499IL.ICI@netcom.com> donh@netcom.com "Don HARLOW" writes:
> >I have no idea what the actual number of English-speakers is. Does anyone
> >have any figures, broken down by country, preferably with an explanation
> >of what criteria they used to determine whta level of ability in English
> >was included? Do such figures exist?
> >
> >My own back-of-envelope calculation:
> >
> >native speakers    350 M
> >non-native speakers, 10% of 5500M = 550 M
> >total = 900 M
> >
> On native speakers, I think we are fairly close (though don't count 
> the full 250 million people in the United States -- in my neighborhood, 
> at least, a very large minority are non-native speakers, and there are 
> a few who couldn't order a glass of water in English).
> 
> On non-native speakers:
> 
> (a) Where do you get the 5500M? Seems to me that you should first 
>     subtract the 350M native speakers.

Fair enough. That would reduce the final total by 35M, which is a much
smaller number than the accuracy of my calculation, so I didn't do it.
> 
> (b) Where do you get the 10%?

It was a guess.

> 
> (c) What are _your_ criteria for what constitutes an English speaker? 
>     If it has to do with the number of people who've studied English 
>     in school at one time or another, your figure may be fairly close 
>     or even understated.

*That* figure is probably much more than 550M. Most children in Europe
and Japan, and many in other parts of the world, study English.

>     If it has to do with the number of people 
>     who can translate simple written English sentences into their own 
>     languages, it may also be close.

That was the sort of level of ability I had in mind.

>     If it has to do with the number 
>     of people who can carry on even a simple conversation in English, 
>     I suspect that it's a bit exaggerated.

Probably.

Language competence is hard to define and measure. Eg I wouldn't 
understand a conversation in French, but I would probably understand
an article in a French computer magazine better than many native French
speakers.

Censuses usually ask questions of the form "Do you speak language X?",
which can give misleading results, because people sometimes answer 
according to how much they like the language, rather than how well they
speak it. A better way to find out if someone knows a language would
be to give them some questions in it to test their level of knowledge.
Eg marking which sentence is incorrect:

     The red car goes very fast.
     The car red fast very goes.

A series of questions like this, asked to a random sample of people
within a country, would give a reasonable idea of the level of English
ability in that country.

-- 
Phil Hunt...philip@storcomp.demon.co.uk
Majority rule for Britain!
