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From: theriaal@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Theriault Alain)
Subject: Re: Definition of Vowel?
Message-ID: <theriaal.780670931@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA>
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Organization: Universite de Montreal
References: <CwBxz8.9M7@eskimo.com> <hubey.780032174@pegasus.montclair.edu> <CwGHzp.6yr@eskimo.com> <CwK85v.26K@reston.icl.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:02:11 GMT
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scc@reston.icl.com (Stephen Carlson) writes:

>In article <CwGHzp.6yr@eskimo.com> rickw@eskimo.com (Richard Wojcik) writes:
>>I don't really know much Italian, but you do get initial spelled "sb-",
>>"sg-", etc., clusters.  If such clusters do exist in some languages, they
>>are certainly a rare phenomenon.  Typically, languages assimilate voicing,
>>either progressively (as in English) or regressively (as in Russian).

Actualy those clusters phonologicaly exist in English, French, Italian, etc.
The thing is that they are "illegal" in regular speech (If you go very slowly 
you can produce those clusters without assimilation). If the phonological 
representation of the word say that there shoud be a /s/ followd by a /b/, then 
that is how it is. But since it is hard to prooduce a voiceless segment followed
by a voiced one in English, assimilation come to "repare" that situation and 
make it phoneticaly acceptable. (You should read Rajendra Singh on "repare 
strategy") 
 
>The Italian examples are merely orthographic.

>The 's' in "sb-" (as in "sbagliare", to make a mistake, "sbrigarsi", to
>hurry up), "sd-" (as in "sdraio", prone), "sg-", "sn-", and "sm-" (as in
>"smettere", to quit), are voiced.  Orthographically, Italian 's' may be
>voiced (cf. "casa" house) or unvoiced (cf. "cassa", (a) safe).  Italian 'z'
>on the other hand represents a /ts/ or /dz/ sound.

>The closest one gets in English is "Aztec" and "asbestos," but these aren't
>fair.
Why not? Keep in mind that a voiced /s/ is NOT a /z/ and contrarywise (spell?)

Alain Theriault
Depatement de linguistique et de traduction
Universite de Montreal


