Newsgroups: comp.ai,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.cognitive
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jqb
From: jqb@netcom.com (Jim Balter)
Subject: Re: pre-destined learning (was Re: Computers--Next stage in evolution? Hmmmmmm.....)
Message-ID: <jqbD3Luw3.Eps@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3gpddj$t2b@usenet.rpi.edu> <Pine.ULT.3.91.950204133514.13117B-100000@rac8.wam.umd.edu> <push-0402951611590001@mind.mi <3h5r41$iqr@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 01:02:26 GMT
X-Original-Newsgroups: comp.ai,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.cognitive
Lines: 76
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai:27155 comp.ai.philosophy:25259 sci.cognitive:6430

In article <3h5r41$iqr@netnews.upenn.edu>,
jmthorne <jmthorne@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Distribution: 
>
>Pushpinder Singh (push@mit.edu) wrote:
>: In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.950204133514.13117B-100000@rac8.wam.umd.edu>,
>: Keith Wiley <keithw@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
>
>: > > But does the bird fly instinctively, or does it *learn* how to fly?
>: > > You've gone to some trouble to draw a distinction between
>: > > instinct and intelligence, and now in illustrating this distinction
>: > > you come up with an ability--a bird's flying--which birds *learn*.
>: > > Flying is not something the bird "knows without having learned it",
>: > > so it is not an instinct.
>: > 
>: > I'm sure not all birds are the same but most birds are born knowing how 
>: > to fly.  As soon as they're ready, the mother literally kicks them out of 
>: > the nest and they either live or die in the next five seconds.  It's easy 
>: > to see how such and "instinct" would be evolved.  If you can't fly right 
>: > off the bat, you smack the ground and die and can't off the ground before 
>: > you get eaten.  If you can glide far enough to make to another tree, you 
>: > live.  Nature is a harsh mother.
>: > Keith
>
>This is not entirely true.  I have been fascinated by birds, and so have 
>spent a considerable amount of time watching them.  I have found, through 
>watching and reading that young birds don't just take to the air, they 
>show a initial fear of flying.  Baby eagles will spend weeks going to a 
>limb across from the nest, hopping and flapping, then walk back to the 
>nest.  Eventually they get the courage to fly to the nest.  Afterwards 
>they have no trouble taking off.  I believe the reason they can fly is 
>their wings, by design, cause lift and flight.  All animals flap and 
>wriggle when dropped and so this wriggling causes flight in birds.  In 
>time they learn to "fine tune" most problably through trial and error, 
>like humans learn to walk.

Humans begin to walk pretty much when their physiology supports that activity.
Perhaps it is similar with baby eagles; rather than being afraid, they may
simply not yet have developed the musculature to support sufficiently powerful
flapping.  Test flapping may even serve a role of muscle strengthening.

BTW, Ashley Montagu points out that the combination of a large cranium and the
restrictive positioning of the birth canal relative to the pelvis as a result
of walking upright puts a limit on gestation time in humans.  His
interpretation, by comparing human stages of development with that of other
animals, is that humans can be thought of as having an 18 month gestation
period, with half of it outside the womb.

>
>: There is a third alternative -- pre-destined learning.
>
>: Consider my cat.  When I first brought him home, he was a 7 week old
>: kitten that couldn't clean himself.  He would lick randomly at his paws
>: every once in a while, but that's it.  However, he slowly got better at
>: it, and today he is quite the contortionist, effectively able to wash
>: every square inch of himself (he's got a trick for the top of his head;
>: lick a paw, and then use the paw to wipe where his tongue can't reach...)
>
>The cat wants to stay clean and so does its best to clean off all areas.  
>Why the cat wants to stay clean may have to do with its need to hunt.  
>Scent is probably the greatest factor in the animal kingdom (for hiding 
>and hunting).  
>
>Instinct provides the drive, how the drive is satisfied is up to the animal.

I'm starting to think that this idea of pre-destined learning, while initially
appealing, is in the end somewhat vacuous.  After all, a teenager in Los
Angeles will invariably learn to drive.  This learning might be labeled
pre-destined, but all this seems to mean is that the motivation (instinctive
drive to remove odor in the case of cat washing) is universal; it tells us
nothing about the nature of the task or the means of learning it.


-- 
<J Q B>

