From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!bernina!neptune!santas Tue Apr  7 23:21:59 EDT 1992
Article 4689 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Xref: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca comp.ai.philosophy:4689 sci.philosophy.tech:2411
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!bernina!neptune!santas
>From: santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.tech
Subject: Re: Causes and Goals
Message-ID: <1992Mar24.150412.11325@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>
Date: 24 Mar 92 15:04:12 GMT
References: <1992Mar21.221618.531@a.cs.okstate.edu> <1992Mar22.185518.12932@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> <1992Mar22.212839.5347@a.cs.okstate.edu>
Sender: news@neptune.inf.ethz.ch (Mr News)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH)
Lines: 55
Nntp-Posting-Host: spica.inf.ethz.ch


In article <1992Mar22.212839.5347@a.cs.okstate.edu> onstott@a.cs.okstate.edu (ONSTOTT CHARLES OR) writes:
>santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>>
>>In what way is the virus identifying a patient?
>>Why is HCl not capable of identifying biological tissue, since it destroys it?
>
>  This line of questioning seems to be playing on the system/individual
>argument.  I am certain you know why a virus "indentifies" a patient.  But,
>it appears that you are trying to reduce the virus to chemical processes
>so that one would wonder "how can this bunch of chemicals identify a patient."

Jein! Let's do this puzzling.
For me there are two cases: Both or none are agents.
 
>Since, I am utilizing the systems stance in this proposition, I am not
>addresing this question.  The chemicals themselves can not, like HCl, identify
>a patient. On the other hand, the system they form is able to.

The electrons in the atoms of HCl react under certain ways in appearence
of atoms of metals, water molecules etc, and one can assume that they
exchange information with such atoms and they identify them, but they do 
not identify molecules of H2 alone.

On the same way the virus exchanges information and identifies certain proteins
but not pure metals etc.

In both cases you can create a model of agents,
but ofc ourse one can say 'nonsence this is not necessary'.
I still do not understand the reasons (if any) for this discrimination.

>  However, you can still reply "What about the cloud as a system of
>chemicals, why can't it identify a patient?"  I don't know if I can answer
>this one and make you happy--maybe, because I am not sure yet.  I am sort of
>taking for granted that there is a differnce in identifying patientcy
>between a cloud and a virus.  One difference may be that a cloud doesn't seem
>to "go after" something.  I imagine, however, that this is not answering
>your question; thus, on this point I can't say any more right now.

So for you a virus is going after something?
And why do you reduce the problem to chemicals?
Are the electrons going after protons? 

Since you and M Zeleny agree on this model, I guess, you can explain why.

Philip Santas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email: santas@inf.ethz.ch				 Philip Santas
Mail: Dept. Informatik				Department of Computer Science
      ETH-Zentrum			  Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
      CH-8092 Zurich				       Zurich, Switzerland
      Switzerland
Phone: +41-1-2547391
      


