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Article 1528 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Is semiotics an "informal logic"?
Message-ID: <1991Nov23.172426.5819@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 23 Nov 91 22:24:25 GMT
References: <1991Nov19.235721.5652@husc3.harvard.edu> <P3oPBB1w164w@depsych.Gwinnett.COM>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
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In article <P3oPBB1w164w@depsych.Gwinnett.COM> 
rc@depsych.Gwinnett.COM (Richard Carlson) writes:

>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

MZ:
>> As said Alonzo Church, "Principia Mathematica" is as much a part of English
>> language as "Paradise Lost".

RC:
>I hate to ask for yet another reference since I've been following
>up so many -- some in private e-mail that seem most relevant to
>what I am actually doing, but is there as simple text -- say
>something written as a remedial for poorly prepared undergraduates
>(I'm serious, NB: no smiley face) -- that presents the
>"Anglo-American" or "formal semantics" (since it isn't really
>Anglo-American, stemming apparently from the German Frege and the
>Pole Tarski) or "logical analytic" view of logic and language?

See the Martin book I already recommended to you.

RC:
>I wish I knew, for example, what a "model-theoretic" view was.  It
>doesn't seem to mean a "model" in the usual sense of "minimal
>virtual reality" (such as the models of Spitfires and
>Messerschmitts our friends made as kids).  In fact it seems to
>mean the opposite of "model" in the usual sense, so far as I can
>gather from context.

The term is used to denote a semantical theory based on Tarski's definition
of truth in a set-theoretical model.  Read Martin, it's all there.

RC:
>It feels as if there has been a huge soiree to which I haven't
>been invited.  Everybody seems to be familiar with a set of ideas
>which are quite alien to me. 

It could be that your tenure on alt.postmodern hasn't adequately prepared
you for your chosen task of provoking the technical philosophers.  You
could consider going back, and resuming your pointless discussion of the
irreducibility of dialectics, -- or you could make an honest effort and
learn what everybody is talking about.  Remenber what Plato whote above the
Academy gates?

RC:
>                              For example, Church's statement that
>_Principia Matematica_ is part of the English language just sounds
>silly.  To a structuralist, in the sense of real basic notions of
>language propounded by Saussure, natural languages are very
>different from mathematical and logical systems, which may well
>arise out of language (but may not, in any meaningful sense) since
>they also are a system of signs, but natural languages are a
>product of a species-specific _faculte de langage_ while
>mathematics is so universal that we can beam pulsed signals into
>space with reasonable confidence that even silicon-based or
>antimatter creatures will understand them.

Of course, most modern structuralists would disagree with you on this one,
siding instead with their brethren, Bourbaki.  But then, a concern for
factual veracity doesn't seem to be high on your list of priorities.
Incidentally, do you define "facult\'e de langage" as that which Richard
Carlson himself can do?


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: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
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